Discussion in 'News And Current Events' started by Visionary, Aug 4, 2009.
Iran questions $18.5B treasure transfer
No idea what this is about, but it seemed intriguing.
it does indeed.
so please anyone tell me how in hell there could be 20 tons of gold beeing transferred without anyone of the regime knowing about it.
I mean gold is in small amount already very heavy, but by smalltime transportes that would take ages. To do that secretly without knowledge of the IR-security forces seems to be unthinkable.
Wait until the opposition will get blaimed.
These guys at press-TV must have noses like Pinoccio (that little wooden puppet having its nose growing, everytime it lies to others)
What about Ahmadinenoccio ?
With that amount of lies he must be able to smell things in Japan.
We should be able to calculate the value of 20 metric tons of gold without having to rely on the MDM telling us one way or another. We need two numbers really: How much is an ounce in grams and how many dollars does it cost to get an ounce of gold today. Both info can be asked to Mr. Google. I will do this calculation later today if I get the chance. Unless somebody else does it before...
I actually saw that news report on TV couple of weeks back. So this is not so new. Normally I pay no attention to TV news but since this concerned Iran I was paying attention. Here are some of the things I remember from it:
- Apparently, around the same time this money/gold "disappeared" Turkish PM Recep Tayyip Erdogan made an announcement that 18.5 billion dollars in investments had entered turkey despite the financial crises (now this could just be MSM attacking the dude but it could also be some dirty dealing.. Who knows)
- The guy had claimed that it was brought for investment but as he had failed to declare it on the customs the customs had taken it.
- The "treasure" was moved away from the customs warehouses and whereabouts of it is not known anymore...
- The turkish lawyer pursuing the case claims there was nothing illegal about the transaction, it was simply a matter of investments. Apparently his Iranian client did not trust wire transfers or did not want to pay the fees or something so he decided to transfer the money as such. Apparently there is a law that waives customs fees for money brought in for investments.
That's all I can remember from this report. A google search may reveal an article from Kanal D or some other turkish news agency from when this came out. I may also get around to this later...
If this is true, than this makes him one of the richest men in the world.
He would be #10 according to the 2009 Forbes list. How does someone accumulate such wealth in an environment like Iran?
The World's Billionaires - Forbes.com
the thing is that it is no money brought in but gold. So that had to be taxed anyway as it is a regular good.
If it was a deal of official investment the Turkish state would have known long ago.
(These international investment contracts take a lot of time)
Ok and around 585,20000 $ would be the aproximate value of 20 tons.
So tell me which normal investor has more than 500 mio in non-digital money ?
Imagine what would happen with the gold-price if once in a sudden somebody buys that amount of gold to cover investments ?
and than, an Iranian person ? without detailed info shared with the IR intelligence? without any massive propaganda by IR media made, that an Iranian buisinessman will invest that ammount outside Iran.
sorry to say but this is either a big freaking joke or something very criminal was going on.
Okay more background:
In countries where economies are unstable, it is both traditional and a good move to keep your wealth in gold. In the Turkey people are given gold coins when they are getting married, etc. I am not sure but I am guessing this might be the case in the rest of the middle east as well and even maybe the balkans.. I know a similar tradition exists in India. In the recent years, in Turkey, there were claims of this one politician guy (islamist too, Necmeddin Erbakan) having ten some odd metric tons of gold stored away.. Once again, who knows... The point is, I expect it is not unusual for someone to keep their wealth stored in Gold in a place like Iran...
The other thing is, personal wealths of billionaires are less then their company wealth. If the gold is worth only 500 mil, as opposed 18 billion or something, then the whole thing would make maybe 1 billion $ which is of course still a large number but would not impossible for someone to have control over as opposed to won.
When I saw the news report on TV I have also thought that this must be some sort of dirty dealing. I mean even if the Iranian government knew about this, even if the turkish government knew about this and even if everybody was fine, that amount of money changing countries without a publicly known investment being behind it indicates to me there is something they would like to hide.
I would like to suggest that all these assholes, the sheikhs and shahs and sultans, all these little tyrants are interconnected...
Correction: At the end of the second paragraph on the previous post, won should have been own... Sorry for my mistake...
An $18.5bn mystery
Question: how can $18.5 billion (yup that’s a ‘b’ not an ‘m’) disappear into thin air? Answer: simple. Just send it to Turkey in a security truck. Then it simply vanishes, the authorities who bragged about it suddenly deny all knowledge of it, and the mysterious Iranian businessman who is said to be the owner is apparently left whistling for his money.
Confused? We haven’t even started. Our story begins, by the few accounts we have, with a recent speech by Recep Tayyip Erdogan, the Turkish Prime Minister, boasting that this enormous sum had been transferred to Turkey, which demonstrated his government’s success in attracting foreign investment despite the global economic downturn. Apparently, however, he did not reveal anything about where the money had actually come from. Enter Turkey’s independent Kanal D television channel, with a pacy report about how the money was shipped into Iran by an Iranian businessman called Ismael Safarian-Nasab. The lengthy report, complete with (mocked?) shots of police cars escorting a security wagon, included a lengthy interview with Senol Ozel, the businessman’s Turkish lawyer, who said his client was a respected Iranian businessman and that the money was transferred to Turkey perfectly legally.
According to Kanal D the container-load of $7.5 billion and 20 metric tonnes of gold (you do the maths, I’m tired!) was delivered to Ankara Customs Office “by courier services” on October 7, 2008. Ozel said his client had decided to ship his wealth to Turkey because of a new ‘ask no questions’ foreign investment policy by an Ankara government desperate to shore up its depleted coffers. Kanal D explained that the Turkish government had adopted a new regulation dubbed the “Suitcase Law” to alleviate the harsh effects of the economic crisis, which basically allows anybody to take any amount of foreign currency into the country from anywhere without being scrutinised. But please don’t ask me where even an amazingly successful Iranian businessman gets that kind of money from. Nor whether you could actually fit that amount into one truck. I don’t know.
I don’t even know if the money – or the gold – actually exists. Because the Turkish government says it doesn’t. Ozel said his client now wanted to take his money back (maybe because Erdogan effectively blew the whistle on it), and reports pointed out how that would leave a sizeable hole in Turkish accounts. Then today Hayati Yazici, Turkish State Minister, said the claim was “false and baseless”. Aanadolu, Turkey’s official news agency, added that Turkish customs officials said such a container had never entered Turkey. Someone, somewhere is telling porkies. But the question is, who? Neo-resistance, PressTV, PressTV, YouTube
Again: the ammount of gold refined every year is roughly known as well as gold requested to be bought or sold ( has to be because of the gold-price)
It is roughly known how much value in gold is owned by whom as it comes to big ammounts. (State-reserves; company-reserves)
It must be low effort to find out which Iranian company or buisinessman has a background of over 500 mio. free to invest .
So personal wealth is not the point after it was announced as a investment.
Okay the video on the link Akbar Azadi provided (Neo-resistance) is the exact same report I had seen on TV.. I would like to hear what you guys think about it without understanding the language. The music and the tone of voice of the reporter is very much sensationalist. I actually think this is bullshit news and if anything Press TV picked it up for distraction purposes. Yet again my opinion of MSM is very low...
One thing I did notice though, watching it over, is that the news reporter says this claim was advanced by Mr. Ozel. That is, he is cited as the source, all claims are his, etc. etc. That's interesting, could it be a lone gunman?
Did anyone try googling the names? For example the Iranian fella... The only name I recognize from that article is Recep Tayyip Erdogan..
My Turkish is pretty rubbish too, but I'm pretty sure the guy with the micirophone at the big meeting in the videoclip is the Turkish prime minister talking about the "investent". Was he lying or making it up? Sounds possible to me the Turks and Iranians, for whatever reason, were embarrassed by his outburst and did their best to hush it up.
See now the real problem is that we are relying on this one video clip. That scene where Tayyip is talking about 18.5 b was a cut from another report. I would not put it above the turkish MSM to take one scene completely out of context to give it a spin to make him look bad. I am by no means any fun of that asshole but I do think MSM is equally dirty...
I think we are looking at two possibilities here. Either this never happened and the report was basically a fabrication based on some nut lawyers claim who was looking to get some media attention and the scene where Tayyip is talking about 18.5 b is totally irrelevant. Or, major amounts of capital flowed from Iran to Turkey, it was part of some major political scheming and those who know are keeping this really quiet, because doing so is in everybodies best interest, of course except for the average Iranian and Turk...
Well, I for one would not be at all surprised to be the one who is being fucked in the affairs of these paper dragons... I am kind of used to it by now... Oh well... Come the revolution...
Not sure if he's right, but it does make sense... but how are relations between Iran & Turkey? Is it a place members of the regime would go to seek asylum?
Full article here:
The National Interest
money has been hemorrhaging from official IRG accounts since around the time of Khamenei's FP in mid june. many billions of US$ and/or other similar stable currencies have left the country in these past weeks. the public revelation of this latest transaction may be a gaffe. it may also represent an effort to call attention to what appears to be continued preparations for flight.
Turkey is one of several places to which monies have been funneled. many nations have quietly frozen these assets. but not all nations are so inclined. for additional information re this and other fascinating issues, please visit
Cyberwar Iran 2009: Part XVII – Follow the Money – Ariel Silverstone’s Security Blog Ariel Silverstone the blog of an extremely well respected expert in these matters.
I think we may have caught a very interesting angle here. If this is an "exit" strategy it immediately implies two things:
1- They feel a real threat of overthrow (very nice to know)
2- They have absolutely no interest whatsoever in the well being of the Iranian people. I was entertaining the possibility that they were doing the "right" thing in their perverted minds but if they are emptying the coffers as they are packing their bags, they obviously have no such concern and they are simply interested in remaining powerful and rich...
I wonder how deep we can dig this...
As for the Iran-Turkey relations, Iran and Turkey have been in peace for I don't know how long but for an unusually long period of time for the middle east (if I am mistaken I am sure I will be corrected) and my understanding has been that while there has been very little mention of Iran in general in the Turkish media there are deep political connections and a strong don't ask, don't tell policy in place. I know Eastern border of Turkey (with Iran) is the hotbed for organized crime in Turkey, as that is the crossing border for drugs destined for europe from central asia and guns destined for central asia. I also know that there is a good deal of oil/gasoline smuggling going on.. It is treated as well known fact in Turkey that the police and the military in the east is knee deep in these activities. Also, many of the politicians, at least those from this region are most likely profiting outrageously from these activities as well... I know this much is basically factual (even though I may not be very accurate as this is only simple mans wisdom.. Real research for facts, figures and names remains to be done. I do however seem to remember a huge percentage of Turkey's real economy (30-40% maybe) remains off the records...), what I suspect is the politicians, the police and the soldiers involved in these dealings are very much in contact with their across the border counterparts...
I actually forgot to answer the actual question. Could the members of the Regime seek asylum in Turkey? I don't think they openly can. Turkey is very much a western ally, secular, and pretends to be democratic. In regards to middle-eastern norms, Turkish republic is the exact opposite of Iran and Saudi Arabia (even though I suspect the differences are not as deep as we are led to believe.) In that regard, granting asylum to these guys, openly would be a bad political move for any turkish politician.
But from my last post, I am sure you can deduce, there would be many many powerful people in Turkey who would be too happy to host these guys. So maybe it could be "arranged" if you know what I mean.
I think you have a point, I don't believe Turkey will grant asylum to any of them. In my opinion the regime transfered the funds to the closest friendly country with a stable banking system. Although they have undermined Turkey's long wish of joining the EU. In any case Turkey would have frozen those assists (by choice or by force from U.S or EU) they decided to be proactive and show good faith so they can get a little shiny star next to the EU application
Pakistan. That is where I would put my money on asylum.
I wonder about the ties between Pakistani Army and Sepah. They (IRGC) seem to be using tactics which are a combination of Pakistani Army and Nicaraguan (Ortega-style). Then again, maybe its just because I am familiar with people from those two places, I tend to just connect patterns to what I know.
But politically, I'd still bet on Pakistan.
Well, the article (in russian) is saying that Iranian banks are sending money to Turkey, Malaysia, UAE, and Pakistan. All of them are islamic countries and all of them have very congenial environment for such not-very-legal transfers. In addition Turkey always was somewhat leery of strong Iran, so getting money from mullahs may depress economy of Iran and it may make Turkey relatively stronger compared to its neighbour. And helping mullahs will give Turkey strong hand in future negotiations with the government of Iran if mullahs recover their influence over the government.
Forgot to mention that
UAE is major transfer point of illegal shipments of various things (including nuclear technology thingies) to Iran.
Pakistan has quite good relations with Iranian government. It was the country who helped Iran to start negotiations with Chinese at the time of Mao Tze Tung about weaponry and industrial help and it was from Pakistani nuclear scientist. Mr. Khan, that Iran got many of its nuclear technologies.
As for Malaysia - It also has good relations with Iran, but I am not that familiar with Iran-Malaysia politics.
As a side note:
3000 Iranians and Turks have applied for jobs as Border Officers!!
sorry - couldn't resist - feel free to delete
LOL! yes, many will seek to enrich themselves at the borders. it is a time honored tradition.
i am a great lover of Hollywood movies, and when Mr. Khan was mentioned, i could not help but scream "Khan" into the sky with raised clenched fists. i have not seen all Star Treks, but Shatner is epic for his ability to be (un)intentionally amusing.
Unregistered, your insight and research are valuable and important. i gain new respect for you almost daily. but there are many who post under this non-name and it is hard to know who is who, if you catch meye meaning. i wish you would sign in under some name, those of us with unreliable connections would like to track your responses. please.
My dear Sparrowhawk, I have had a nick since the beginning of this July and had I used it, I would have been a senior member by now. I haven't been logging in, mostly because I am too lazy to do so. I use 2-3 different computers a day and it's too tedious to log in and out from each one of them daily. Plus I always feel people should be judging what I am saying based on my ideas and not who I am, so i love being literally anonymous.
But, for those of you with "unreliable" connections, I will be more then happy to log in from now on... Thank you for your kind words...
Speaking of the borders, if you (sparrowhawk) happen to know anyone who might be considering crossing the border, try to let me know. I can see if I can help them with anything once they are on this side...
Oh BTW, your comment about Mr. Khan, i strongly approve.
-The poster formerly known as Unidentified
It's not over yet
Majlis to probe '$18.5B treasure transfer'
LOL, the exact same here. I think I have nine unregistered posts for each registered one I have. I am coyote. It doesn't keep me logged in long enough, and I switch computers all the time. It isn't too hard to get a feel for who people are based on what they say anyway. Half the time, I don't even look at the name of the poster.
Agree with you on the short log-in time. Really frustrating to get bumped out so quickly but I suppose it's necessary for security?
Coyote and CradleofCiv, you are correct. i however, cannot generally stay on the internet for long periods of time. rather than wade through all posts looking for those writers i respect, i have searched for all posts from particular writers. it is like looking through a window, of sorts, to determine what the weather has been like while i have been away. i do some writing and research and try to post all at once, usually with terrible success. there are certainly many advantages to being anonymous. i know it is selfish of me to want a user name to accomplish these searches and i apologize.
Akhbar Azadi thank you for posting from PressTV. more and more attention/scrutiny will be aimed at Iran's financial institutions and non public dealings. the more people hear about this, the better. i hope a run on the banking industry is imminent.
I'm the selfish one because I'm too lazy to log in all the time. You have a good point. I think some of the government trolls in here log on and pretend to be half-way civil, but inject subtle doubt and hints into what they say, and then the log off and post really bad comments as unregistered. You can kind of tell when the unregistered trolls are the same people as ones with names, because they tend to make all their posts around the same time, but if you're not on at that time, it makes it more difficult to see it.
Sparrowhawk, You are not being selfish. Everyone is operating based on their subjective realities. The whole point of this forum is to support you guys and gals in Iran in any way we can, and therefore your reality must take precedence (did I spell that right?) over mine.
It always amazes me that people like hawk can stay so civil and polite, given what they are going through.
One hundred per cent behind that one!
Okay, so here are a few questions for sparrowhawk...
1-All the info I am gettind in regards to Iran is basically what is in the Green Briefs. You are there, on the ground. We all seriously believe in you guys very very much and much confident of an eventual victory. But I suspect for a lot of us, this belief is based on the idea that it is righteous for you to overcome. How do you guys feel? Can you tell us about the sense there, the public spirit?
2-Is it true that you guys in Iran are still using dial-up? (not that I don't trust Roe, but maybe things changed since he'd been there..)
There are DSL services in Iran but they are not available to everyone. Some of my relatives live in an old part of Tehran where the lines are not good enough for DSL. I'm not sure exactly what proportion in Iran are using dial-up but I suspect it's the majority.
Okay, maybe this is stupid but I just have to put it out there... I am thinking if it would be reasonable to purchase a sattelite connection, say in turkey. Then pack my little antenna in my bag, go east a little, point my antenna to the sky, and connect to the internet, without concerning myself with the nosiness of say, turkish telecomm. I just keep thinking an internet satelitte you see from istanbul probably is on the line of sight of say... tehran... as well.
This maybe related...
Okay somebody in another thread mentioned Roubini, and I thought, hey yeah that is a cool guy, that I haven't check in a while.. So I went to his webpage to see what he had to say about Turkey and guess what I came across:
"Since October 2008, Turkey has recorded US$ 18 billion in foreign currency inflows which remain largely unexplained. The inflows have helped shore up the Turkish lira and trim the current account deficit, which some analysts say has reduced the need for a new IMF loan. See related spotlight issue on Turkey's current account deficit
Central bank tried to demystify the inflows by adjusting the balance of payments data for Q4 2008 and transferring US$4.4 billion from the 'Net Errors and Omissions' section to the capital account. (Bloomberg)
Citigroup: "The CBT added a new item in the BOP account [in June] to capture the changes in the deposits of residents held abroad, which were hidden in errors and omissions until now. While the 2009 figures are yet to be revised..a big share of the marked swing in errors and omissions in 2008 appears to be explained by this new item."
EFG: "CBT had stated earlier that the massive inflow was driven by funds repatriated from abroad; the conversion of FX holdings kept under the mattress into TRL; and exchange rate differences in some transactions. The CBT is still working on the breakdown of the net errors & omissions item for 2009.""
This is basically pure facts.. I tried to link the whole article but I only seem able to link the main webpage.
Who is Nouriel Roubini
Okay first a clarification. The website mentioned in the previous post is not Roubini personal website. It is Roubini Global Economic Monitor. It is a very good site for keeping track economic news.
So it is not Roubini's opinion that there is an unexplained 18b$ appearing in Turkey. As far as I know, he didn't make any comments in this regard. I mentioned his name because this is where I saw the information about there being in fact this unexplained 18b$ in Turkish economy, suddenly appearing from thin air on this site.
It was suggested to me that I should include some further background information about Roubini so here we go:
He is an Iranian Jew, born in Turkey, grown in Italy and USA. Since he is a very much international character, he is referred to as Global Nomad.
He is a summa cum laude graduate of Bocconi University with a BA in economics, and has a PhD from Harvard.
Today, he is regarded as one of the foremost experts of global economy. Mostly because his predictions (in 2006) about the housing bubble starting in the United States and turning into a global financial crises were very accurate. Before 2009 he called Dr. Doom for his very pessimistic forecasts.. These days, some people refer to him as a prophet...
Currently, he works at the Stern School of Business in NY. His career includes many interesting positions including advising the IMF.
For further information:
Nouriel Roubini - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Nouriel Roubini's Home Page
Wouldn't it be the true that even if you had broad band the government would limit your speed so it does not matter whether you have broadband or dial up.
sorry ella, but to what are u referring ?
so how come this has not been on the news yet? i have not heard anyone talking about it...i only heard it on a foreign news channel
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