Discussion in 'News And Current Events' started by iraniam, Dec 27, 2011.
Can't those ayatollahs just die? I'm so tired of them.
Worst idea conjured by those dumb old men. U.S. has two carriers nearby with enough cruise missiles (converted ICBMs) to make every plant, oil field, and factory in Iran disappear. And that isn't even when they cut loose with the rest of their arsenal. In case nobody gets what I'm implying, blocking oil from the west is the worst declaration of war that will turn Iran into the next Iraq, with Iranian citizens paying for it in the worst way.
I think that closing the Hormuz strait constitutes an act of war under the international law and any attack that would ensue by the West would be considered "self-defence". In any event, ayatollahs are all talk. They are not interested in war or conflict, because they no longer control their own population. They can't risk instability in the country. I really do wish they'd just go away. We all know it's going to happen sooner or later anyways, it's just a question if they will take thousands of people with them, the way Assad is currently doing in Syria.
US warns Iran over threat to block oil route
"unhelpful" is not an English word, but a NewSpeak word.
So, the US now owns also the Straits of Hormuz? Maybe they ought to be shown that they are not the masters of the Earth.
I think that the assaults by the IDF on peaceful vessel in international waters is an act of terrorism, just like Operation Cast Lead was. The Straits of Hormuz do not belong to Israel.
May the Israeli nukes misfire when the crazies set them off... LOL
Thank you for this very relevant observation to this thread. As for the peaceful vessel in international waters, this is what I have to say:
Iran Rejects US Warning Against Closing Strait of Hormuz
Leave Iran to its problems. The Jews have enough of their own, don't you think?
iraniam or JohnDoe, if you know anyone who can get the word out in Iran. When the moment of truth comes when Iran regime either backs up its threats or backs down, someone needs to tell the population to not show up to work in any facility. That includes oil field, factory, power station, water treatment facility, or even anywhere near a military base. Just sayin they might be safer taking a sick day and hiding in a bomb shelter just in case this escalates.
Not this Jew.
Iran is bluffing again. Khamenei does not have the balls to order such a thing. They have done this before and they backed down.
^^^ What, you want all the Israelis to die? Like every single one of them? You it would include a million of your Arab brothers who hold Israeli passports.
Oh wait. Arab leaders don't have scruples about killing their own people. Assad has just turned towards his sixth thousand.
Let's Stay with the subject matter....PLEASE.......Thank You.
You're right. Will do.
So I'm trying to understand - is the strait of Hormuz considered "international waters" and everybody has the right of passage there?
FWIK: And bare with me as I am a US Fag: the Hormuz is international waters. If Ahmadinejad tried to block the Strait, he'd be blocking all traffic. Thus it'd be an international, not an US, problem.
So tiring... why do these fuckers threaten to they're blue in the face... JUST DO IT! All this needless rhetoric and the media eats it up. What happened to "put up or shut up?"
The Iranians know their ships will end up at the bottom of the Strait if they attack.
Lets keep on topic here:
If Iran does decide to start shit, which I have my doubts since they seem like a whole lot of talk and no action, what are the odds they will be successful? Let me start with this:
It is extremely unlikely that Iran has the capacity to do that or even come close. Even if Iran was on the same military tech level as the US (they are not), most Iranians would see the skirmish as a chance to revolt against their oppressors.
Add to this: The Strait is (perhaps) in international waters, and it wouldn't just be an act of aggression against the US. No, it'd be an act of aggression against the international community. I am sure that countries like France, Russia, China and others wouldn't like that any more than the US.
Thus, NOT international waters.
How the Israelis and the Americans like to call all the waters in the oceans and seas "international waters". What bullshit.
This is the same wool they pulled over the eyes of the American public during the Gulf of Tonkin incident.
Iran: guard your waters.
One glaring problem with your logic:
IOW: If Iran begins fucking around, it will butthurt the UN. Granted, the UN is just as useless as Iran's claims but...
Otherwise, your argument is invalid
Enough with the derail
The Strait of Hormuz consists of territorial waters, not international waters.
Can someone show otherwise?
Sorry for the thread derail. But it's all kinda relevant, given the noise being made about the Hormuz Strait and the quirky timing of this new multi-billion dollar arms deal between the USA and Saudi.
US navy crosses Strait of Hormuz after Iranian oil threats
Funny, I thought both the Americans and the Jews were tough, and don't afraid of anything. Yet, they're both purportedly deathly afraid of weapons that don't exist, in the hands of a third-rate power.
Yeah, like the Iranians are so fucking stupid, that they don't realize that even if they had the Bomb, it couldn't be used? I seriously doubt it.
I guess they're more stupid even than the late Kim Jong Il, who had the Bomb, yet didn't use it.
I don't recall hearing of any military threats against North Korea in the last, what, 40 years or so?
Is it my perception alone, or does the US/Israel alliance do battle only with weaker/defenceless states?
After the sanctions and embargos the US enforced on neighbouring Iraq - where the US/UN ended up killing hundreds of thousands of the most vulnerable in Iraqi society, over years of imposing an effective slow genocide, with a combination of a siege and atomic poisoning, as well as the usual methods - torturing raping and killing innocent civilians without any real accountability at all... I am not in the least bit surprised that the Iranians treat this talk of an "embargo" as an act of war.
People would be extremely foolish to assume this is another simple capitalist war, if the US goes ahead with its intentions in Iran.
China and Russia will retaliate, and the USA could easily be returned to the 1920's, without a single bomb being dropped.
I see no urgent need by the same bullshit US government, for the US/UN to "save" the Syrians from their dictatorship, the way the anti-Saddam and anti-Qadaffi wars went down.
It's totally the opposite. The West is selling the weapons and the chemicals to the Syrian regime so they can exterminate their own people.
NATO knows this could be WW3. China are ready. They have ready-made empty cities capable of housing 70 million people.
Be afraid folks, because 2012 could well turn out to be the self-fulfilling prophecy for the fools who elect themselves to represent mankind.
If we can keep to the thread topic here, this excellent window opening onto the current situation will remain informative and perspicuous.
Any more derail maneuvers will compel me to engage in stain removal, cleaning and pressing the thread, thereby making it as good as new.
Strait Of Hormuz, as it was last sighted mapped
Like I was saying, I see no "international waters" here.
Based upon the research I've done, there is no uniform, total area of International Waters. There are "channels" and these have UN & other International agreements about what is sovereign and what is International in terms of water ways in the Strait.
I'll cite some hard numbers from the the Wiki page, feel free to dispute them if you have a better, more accurate source.
International Law (UN and other treaties) recognizes a 12 mile limit of "Territorial Sea".
That's considered sovereign territory, much like solid land is.
12 miles out from that is "Contiguous Sea" and international Law recognizes that nations have limited sovereignty there.
200 miles out from the shoreline is "Exclusive Economic Zone" which generally includes fishing, mineral rights and similar.
International sea traffic merely passing through (regardless of economic transport) is not considered subject to EEZ restriction.
If Iran exercised a claim to 2/3 of the width of the Strait, there would be some justification for them to. Since the strait is less than 48 miles, the usual practice is to split the middle, with half belonging to each opposite nation. If Iran claimed the entire Strait as their own territory, they'd be flouting the Law, plus ignoring the reasonable claims of Oman and UAE; which is actually ok.
Anyone can claim MOAR territory, so long as they can enforce it. USA patrols heavily within its 24 mile limit, but also outside, because they can.
Russia and China do, too. Japan when they can get away with it. Israel, when they can get away with it (which is 99% of the time).
If Iran moved to deny shipping to other nations, they wouldn't be playing nice; but they probably have more sea power than UAE and Oman combined. They arguably have less than UAE/Oman's "big brother" in the West.
It's "territory of Iran" to IRI,
"Territorial Sea, Contiguous Sea" to Oman & UAE (and United Nations)
"Not ours, but our friends said it was OK" to USA, Israel, etc
Tangeh Hormoz (Strait of Hormoz) is not International Waters. It has been part of The Country of Iran for centuries, even before USA was USA or any other countries in that area. Remember people, Iran has more that 3000 years of history. Just to let some of you know....And.....Like I said before, Iran is bluffing again. Nothing is going to happen. Let's just cool down.
If this is absolute, what right (if any) do UAE and Oman have to their own shores?
Must they ask Iran for permission every time they pee in the water?
If Iran owns the water and everything else, then why are these countries even allowed to exist? Iran should annex them already.
Agreed, and this is most important.
The only reason Iran is doing this is to PISS OFF United States. That's it. All other countries in that area share those "Channels" and they have been doing it for years with no problem But Iran still owns Strait of Hormoz. ...Happy New Year everyone.
Iran To Meet Hormuz 'Threats With Threats'
It seems to me that the sanctions are really biting - as of course they will, if the oil is properly 'hit'. Now did anyone really expect the Iranian Regime to sit back and say nothing if their main source of income was going to be hit hard?
A few months ago when the banks were hit there was sheer panic in Tehran - ending in the rather clumsy attack on the British Embassy, and I'm fairly sure the Iranian Regime did not expect the UK government to act as it did and with such speed.
How much more panic must there be if the oil revenue is hit?
Iraniam they may be bluffing, but is the West wise enough to stay calm? I think that's always been the problem in West = Middle East Relations - neither side has been particularly good at understanding each other! (Even this thread is tiny example of that!)
Agreed fully with your last point. There is a major clash of cultures taking place. Based upon what I have learned about what happens with diplomacy in the Middle Eastern Countries, there is much activity that is out-of-sight for the most part.
There are meetings that are full of intricate mixes of concession and compromise amongst many people. This involves people from all of the countries in the area as well as representatives (diplomats for the most part) from the EU, the US, Canada and the UK.
There is a fascinating book written by Efraim Halevy, titled - Man In The Shadows - St. Martins Press NY, 2006.
Halevy was director of Mossad for some time, and the book is primarily about his time there.
He is now head of the Centre for Strategic & Policy Studies at the Hebrew University Of Jerusalem. He also served as Israel's ambassador to the EU between 1996 and 1998.
The book provided me with opportunities to obtain much insight about how some of the friction and sparks of this culture clash are managed by all the players.
I have to say that ayatollahs' behaviour is becoming more and more reminiscent of that of Kim Jong Il. He used to tease the international community all the time. Coming to negotiating table, then withdrawing, causing some explosions on South Korean border, then negotiating again....
I think the current Iranian regime is playing a similar game, in order to remain relevant or maybe score a few points with the West when they won't close the strait of Hormuz.
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