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Iranian Group Seeks U.S. Shield After Iraqi Raid

Discussion in 'News And Current Events' started by iraniam, Apr 13, 2011.

  1. iraniam Member

    PARIS — Members of a blacklisted Iranian dissident group were joined by former U.S. officials on Wednesday in calling on the United States to protect them after a raid on their camp by Iraqi government forces last week that the dissidents say left 34 people dead and 318 people wounded.
    “The massacre in Ashraf plainly puts into perspective the conclusion that the prudent and, in fact, the only solution is for the U.S. to reassume the camp’s protection,” Maryam Rajavi, a leader of the dissidents, said at a news conference.
    Details of the incident at Camp Ashraf, which houses members of the People’s Mujahedeen Organization of Iran, remain somewhat obscure. Enough is known that officials from the United States and European Union, as well as human rights groups, have urged the government of Prime Minister Nuri Kamal al-Maliki to show restraint.
    Sean McCormack, a U.S. State Department spokesman, said Wednesday that Washington had called on the Iraqi government to conduct an investigation and to guarantee the humane treatment of the residents of the camp.
    The group’s members say that despite their having warned U.S. and U.N. officials that an attack was imminent, Iraqi Army soldiers equipped with armored vehicles and Humvees began an assault on the 3,400 people living in the camp, north of Baghdad, at 4:45 a.m. Friday.
    The Iraqi Defense Ministry said Tuesday that it would investigate the claim that 34 people had died in the raid, Reuters reported. The authorities have said that three people were killed resisting an operation to return land from the camp to farmers.
    On Monday, a spokesman for the Iraqi government said the Iranians would have to leave Iraq by the end of the year.
    A video shown at the news conference, filmed and edited by members of the group, showed soldiers in desert camouflage uniforms firing on unarmed civilians and armored vehicles and trucks being used to herd crowds of people, running some down. The authenticity of the video could not immediately be verified.
    Ms. Rajavi, an Iranian exile who describes herself as the president-elect of the country’s resistance, cited the example of a notorious July 1995 massacre of the Yugoslavian war, saying: “With the threat of another Srebrenica looming in Ashraf, intervention is absolutely essential.”
    The people of Camp Ashraf were disarmed by U.S. forces in 2009, agreeing to lay down their weapons and renounce violence in return for U.S. protection.
    The Iranian group has been branded a terrorist group by the United States, Iraq and Iran, though not the European Union or the United Nations. The dissidents claim that Mr. Maliki’s government is making use of the terrorist designation to justify the attacks, all the while carrying out the bidding of the Iranian government, which sees them as a threat to its hold on power. All the speakers at the news conference called on Washington to remove the terrorist label.
    Two of them, Hugh Shelton, former chairman of the U.S. Joint Chiefs of Staff, and John R. Bolton, U.S. ambassador to the United Nations under President George W. Bush, praised the group as having provided the United States with valuable intelligence about Iran.
    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/14/world/middleeast/14iht-iran14.html?_r=1&partner=rss&emc=rss
  2. I do know the MEK, of which Maryam Rajavi is a leader, is highly controversial. Also, they have a history of their own, well-documented, human rights abuses. What happened at Camp Ashraf was awful, but if they were to become a major political force in Iraq or Iran, I fear the results would be even worse than the Iranian people are currently experiencing under the Ayatollahs.
  3. The MEK is an Islamo-Marxist Church of Scientology analogue. I harbor no ill will towards them, but I also do not want to see them even come close to having power. Although the Ayatollahs are responsible for a great deal of evil, viewing these people with suspicion is not an example of that.
  4. iraniam Member

    I do not support MEK neither, But I do support human life. Your point is well taken and I don't want them to gain any power. What the government of Iraq did to these people in middle of the night, was unjust and crime against humanity.
  5. Fair enough, and I agree. I'd much rather they die from old age after failing to achieve their goals.
  6. SOJOA Member

    This is what bothers me.....Iran needs help....so does of the rest of the muslim nations cause well.....well **** do I even need to state it?

    Anyway......You and your people, the nations and the areas people, are going to except the Westerns help or not. As with all wars and issues when people cry for help and others come in, their traditions and the like are always left behind. It just happens.

    Problem, like with my sister who was in Iraq and around that whole area, no matter what "we" do, you ***** people just end up hating us anyway.

    So what do you want. Stop **** typing this **** Iranism or w/e. I can appreciate the region needing help but your "people" will except it to a point then **** us in the ass later.

    So....what do you suggest? Do you speak for the people? I know you dont. So why type that **** here?

    WTF do you want us to do?
  7. iraniam Member

    Stop Reading
  8. SOJOA Member

    I would but you flood the forums with this ****...

    Seriously what do you want us to do....Not the Iranian people.....us the first worl nations..

    Im being ***** honest. What do you want? Word to get out? What>?

    ***** what?

    Your garbage that you keep putting up here is reaching the general first tier nation public and active anons. If we even or our nations did anything we would be bitchslapped later and your ****** "people" hate us anyway.

    So what do you want? Either leave us alone or go cry to the other muslim nations who can help and your people not **** over later.

    History repeats itself and if it didnt, then we would be more liable to help you.
  9. Anonymous Member

    iraniam please continue posting these stories and links. I often send them to people in my circle...pretty sure a few letters have been written, discussions held, people have learned about issues and done more research. From here, that's about what I can do.

    Haven't been bitchslapped for it yet. ;)
    • Like Like x 3
  10. حمید Member

    The funny part is that everybody is trying first to grant the audience to be free from any relation or tie or what so ever to MKO and then stamp those with even more being under the influence of a campaigned terror being spread by the regime of terror itself. Why not mentioning about the facts supporting your statements here to be given them a chance to answer and not as in other web sites contributing to promote a one sided accusation. Well if you are not MKO what are you otherwise and what have you done? How have you done? Which is more triumphal if not less? This organization as like any other is undergoing its process and it will be of help to you if only you want to correct it. I think it is a shameful approach.
    • Like Like x 1
  11. حمید Member

    I choose to write this in a separate post simply to value MKO more than some of many which I name down below as being the key factor to existence misery for decades, yet, they are freely misusing BBC, VOA if not purposely using it. I start with the un-turban Negahdar , Sazegara…..
    Have you really forgotten what they have done! Not to have done being permitted to continue poisoning a movement to the freedom. People show their disgust in their own expressive way not have been understood by BBC to be called Ayatollah BBC…..The rest you try to find out to understand the problems, which unreasonably have to be faced by people when they consider the media to be an instrument to spread values contributing to democracy rather than to ease its continuous suppression, orignally …………
    • Like Like x 1
  12. lulzgasm Member

    Keep putting out the info. anyone who doesn't like it "going to the top" of the message boards can just learn how to point-and-click on certain category links.

    It's not hard to do. Hell, I do it all the time.
    • Like Like x 2
  13. JohnDoe Moderator

    As others have said you don't have to read it, you can choose to ignore - but please whatever you do, mind your language and try to avoid generalisations. Today I have edited it. Next time I'll be deleting it.


    You would do very well to study history and find out just what the UK & USA's history is in Iran. It does not make for comfortable reading. Hint it's got an awful lot to do with oil.

    Third point, you have clearly not yet separated the Iranian people from the regime that controls them.

    Final point Iran is not Iraq! And whatever anger you have against Iraq for what has happened your sister there, has got nothing to do with Iran. Basic lesson Iraq is Arabic. Iran is not. (However you might do well to study even the recent history of Iraq, going right back to the first Gulf War - the West does not come out of that very well either)
    • Like Like x 3
  14. حمید Member

    They have been stamped as "Islamist-Marxist" by the late shah of Iran during the cold war period due to the fact that the organization politically found it necessary then for an armed solution. They were all well-educated extremely social able people under the influence. There are many issues which would have not been existed today had the option of free political debates existed then. Please do not mislead the forum! The least they are you are trying to accuse them. They are not practicing Scientology where as you are trying to apply an adventurous possibility of new form anti-Semitism.
  15. Anonymous Member

    As much as I support Iran, I think your editing his post was not helpful, on several levels.
  16. Anonymous Member

    agreed
  17. JohnDoe Moderator

    My editing was only on the language not the content - swearing should not be used on the forum.
    That's what I was referring to in deleting.

    Please explain why that was not helpful.
    • Like Like x 1
  18. I didn't say they were practicing Scientology. I said several of their behaviors are analogous to the CoS. They have a documented history of human rights abuses that are on par in type, if not in scale, with the horrors committed by the current Iranian regime and the Shah. They've run their own prison camps analogous to the RPF under the Church of Scientology where they incarcerated and horribly abused former members. This is fact, and this occurred in Camp Ashraf. I don't care what they or any group does, as long as they harm none. They have utterly and completely failed to meet even this most basic standard. For the record, well-educated people join cults too. It happened in Jonestown, Guyana, and it's happened countless other places.
  19. Ersatz Global Moderator

    This subforum was created specifically for such sharing information such as that iraniam posts. If you don't want to help, skip past the FoI posts and go directly to the AvS forums.
    • Like Like x 4
  20. حمید Member

    I think if you study about the behavior of human being under trauma you will think over basing your assumptions for fact. If you search in this very forum you will see some videos showing how ignoring such studies have helped regimes in this particular Iran have chosen to execute the victim. Moreover you can see the trauma presence in Camp Ashraf in videos being spread on YouTube being taunted by the responsible. I believe you do not have the faintest idea of those peoples world trying not to blame anyone for the situation they live in. I believe it is about time that you get in contact with people that are struggling to struggle. People according to the standards which are not validated as Iraqis or Iranians despite being born in Iraq or Iran with different parents let alone its emotional perspective. Now you tell me do you really expect an answer from them which you can understand. Or is it reasonable to question them at all?


  21. Yes. Forgive me. I will give them a pass for behaving worse than the Shah just because they're oppressed. That was sarcasm, by the way. What happened in Camp Ashraf was wrong, but for what it's worth, there were clearly no angels on either side of what happened there.
  22. The Ayatollahs are in power, and the Shah was overthrown, because the Western world made the mistake of thinking that replacing a monster with a lesser monster was acceptable. What the world, and most pointedly, the Iranian people, got instead was something worse than anyone could have imagined. That is not a mistake I would care to see repeated.
  23. حمید Member

    That is we all are trying and which does not excludes MKO. They have put down arms now but it will be for the better of every one if they announce it officially once it has been SEARCHED by debates to be adopted originally.I do not think they have had the chance being continuously on guard not to be harassed.
  24. And yet, even disarmed and abiding by a ceasefire since 2001, even while protected, they've still committed horrific human rights abuses against their own current and former members. I would sooner trust a fox to guard a hen house than I would trust the MEK to abide by their word in the long term. There are plenty who crave freedom for Iran, and who crave liberty. There are, I'm sure, even armed groups that have worked to achieve those ends. I would trust almost any of them before I would trust Maryam Rajavi and her followers.
  25. حمید Member

    Yes of course that would be, I assume as if your vote for some other. I agree it is of prime importance to put extremely high demands on whom one votes to, not the least to assure the same demands holds true. Personally I think the degree of these demands varies individually which possibly can be reasonably balanced by education, debates……. I think a requirement I demand would be, having not shown a capacity of committing what is by a developed common sense regarded wrong. I am definitely not regarding many of those worthy of my vote simply because they have not shown the capacity of being able to find peaceful solutions worse if they have shown the ability. That is again as you see a vote for some one. The fact is that there are many to choose from which a fortunate is unfortunately having shown abilities not to be qualified the requirements of the demand yet free to advise up to demand qualified ideas without counting on those whom will not get at least your vote and mine. Proactive measures alert the need of their presence firstly to ensure the pluralism guidelines of democracy not to be ashamed historically in future and preventing a false glorified hope once the developed common senses alert that we have voted for the wrong to be favored by those not present.
    • Like Like x 2
  26. Anonymous Member

    I believe your personal belief system played large roll in your editing of his post. Oddly, you seemed to have missed the swearing in this post.

    As a Christian here on WWP, I wade though quite of bit anti-christian rhetoric regularly. On occasion I respond or defend but I wouldn't expect anyone to edit the offending post for my benefit. Others have beliefs that greatly differ from my own and I, as someone who believes in freedom of thought, has to accept that.

    It's also my belief that the Iranian students have had enough of the religious rule that has been crushing them the last 30 years. I fully support the students who want to transform Iran into a free society of secular rule. I am worried about the religious rule of any government; not the Muslim brotherhood in Egypt, nor the bible thumping Christians in the United States. Nowhere. It is my hope that the students of Iran win their battle and lead other Arab nations towards a secular society; where women can wear purple mohawks and biker boots if they want. Where gay men aren't publicly hung from cranes and little kids don't think strapping on an explosive vest is the coolest thing evah!

    In June of 2009 I was ecstatic to witness all the people out in front of the federal building in Los Angeles. I prayed for those who were fighting for freedom on the streets of Iran, many of them dying on those streets. I have a magnitude of respect for Neda and what she believed in.

    This thread is asking my nation to enter into real war with the nation of Iran. If this is a request support religious zealots that will simply trade one oppressive religious regime for another, I do not support risking our sons and daughters. If the request will help to fulfill the hopes of Neda and bring real freedom to Iran, I believe the fight is just.

    In my humble opinion Iran is the key-stone to peace in that part of the world. I believe the Iranian (and Egyptian) youth want a nation where the freedom to practice Islam is but one choice among many other freedoms that are currently unacceptable in any number of Arab nations. I feel those who will infringe on the freedoms of others, are a problem.

    Sometimes grown ups swear, it's not for you judge how someone else express their thoughts. He may have very good reason to be upset and should be free to communicate those feelings. Freedom of thought and freedom of speech are the foundation of WWP. Your actions of editing his post are more akin the internet filtering by Ahmadinejad than the principals of freedom.
    • Like Like x 4
  27. I agree with most of what you said. However, if swearing in the Iran area stifles reasoned debate, I don't find it unreasonable to avoid its use. There are plenty of other areas on WWP where we can (and I do) curse to my heart's content.
    • Like Like x 1
  28. JohnDoe Moderator


    Thank you for responding - I appreciate your feed back.

    You are right I did miss that one.

    I was trying to check the site rules, about posting, but the link doesn't work - however when this forum was stand alone, not linked into the main forum - there were very clear rules about not swearing. All swearing was edited out - that was before I was mod. The only place where swearing was permitted was in the off-topic, and that was because it wasn't moderated. I have simply carried those standards over here. Persistent offenders were warned and could find themselves with an infraction.

    Believe me I am well used to people swearing, and it is not that I am trying to impose my own values or beliefs on anyone. I will check with the other Iranian mods as to whether they want to continue the former system of 'no swearing' or whether they are happy to leave all swearing in the posts.

    I trust this clarifies my actions.
  29. Anonymous Member

    Yes it does clarify your disposition, you were just following orders.
  30. I would encourage you to do something, but it would run afoul of the rules in the Iran area. Still, you can fill in the blank: Go ____ yourself. Godwining over something this petty is stupid, and so are you.
    • Like Like x 1
  31. حمید Member

    Actually the philosophy of swearing is an extra ordinary interesting subject to discuss if one has had time to think about it, although nothing that I am begging for but for the sake of availability in case being educationally studied, perhaps it can have the same color as the background to avoid irritations and a chance if someone is possibly begging for.
    • Like Like x 1
  32. SOJOA Member

    You are correct and I certainly should have handled it better. My apologizes to all.

    I do care about the Iran issues and abuse and the rest of the world. Its never ok. I just dont understand it on this forum.

    Sorry all
  33. Ersatz Global Moderator

    Very gracious of you SOJOA. Thank you.
    • Like Like x 1
  34. iraniam Member

    Thank You as well.
  35. JohnDoe Moderator

    Yes SOJOA - extremely gracious of you.

    Very much appreciated that you came back - thank you.
    • Like Like x 1
  36. subgenius Member

    just posting to recognize that someone can admit a mistake
    very rare
    we spend more energy defending mistakes than admitting them and moving on
    my faith in humanity is renewed
    for the moment
    oh, and forgiveness
    that's a good thing too
    • Like Like x 3
  37. Anonymous Member

  38. Anonymous Member

    I find it ironic as all ****.

    **** that!
  39. JohnDoe Moderator

    ROFLOL - I'm hardly awake, but you have made me laugh.
  40. lulzgasm Member

    That's pretty much Anonymous in a nutshell.

    [computer voice] "Help. I'm in a nutshell. Get me out. This sucks."

    Wait...that's ^ Anon in a nutshell. somebody better get them out before it cracks and accidentallies the world.

    Oops. Too late.
    • Like Like x 2

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