Irish anons infiltrated

Discussion in 'Education, Research and Inside Reports' started by Anonymous, Jun 4, 2012.

  1. Anonymous Member

    Srsly guyz, wtf??

    I’m not joking either. Since way back in 08 those dudes have been giving the cult hell and bringing the entertainment to our doorstep with vids, tv coverage and plenty of press.

    And plenty of laughs too. Remember Gerry Ryan and his many small doses of fail? Fingers guy? Lady Maggie trying to hide behind the fat guy? That dude whose name I can’t remember but who prairie-dogged himself when that blonde woman was asking about her sister.

    Now they go to host a big conference and this shit happens:

    Since when did oireland become a hugbox and the exes take over?? They even have a pro-FreeZone video on the site.

    Srsly guyz, wtf??
  2. Anonymous Member

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  3. Anonymous Member

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  4. Anonymous Member

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  5. Anonymous Member

    Heh! a presspack with details about Scientology yet no mention of Xenu or L Ron Hubbard's criminal activities. So long Irish Anons . . .
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  6. Anonymous Member

    Because a serious attempt to warn about a dangerous insidious and parasitic cult is best served by talking about someone dead for over two decades and having a 'LOL Xenu' moment....?
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  7. Anonymous Member

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  8. Anonymous Member

    That you, Marty?
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  9. Anonymous Member

    Compare the following:

    “LOL Xenu!”

    “I lost 22 years of my life.”

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  10. Anonymous Member

    For publication in media and inoculation purposes, contrast and compare:

    In order to understand the Scientology beliefs, we first need to understand the concepts of Dianetics - the precursor to
    Scientology. The central idea of Dianetics is that traumatic memories are the source of many of the problems which affect us today. These memories can be stored in a portion of our brain which L. Ron Hubbard, the founder of Scientology, dubbed the "Reactive Mind". Such stored memories are called Engrams.

    . . . with . . .

    "Scientology has been an on-going organised criminal conspiracy to defraud since the day L Ron Hubbard said he used Dianetics to cure war injuries. It has ruined the lives of thousands by distracting from the fraud using hypnosis-like trance states leading people into a promised a UFO nirvana where the predations of evil galactic overlord Xenu are said to be eliminated. Yet, at the beginning of their trip to perdition, its not for no reason that L Ron Hubbard's followers are first instructed to"clear" their "bank".

    RIP Irish Anons.
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  11. Anonymous Member

    The second just reads like scaremongering to most journalists. And yes, I have had enough contact with journalists since 2008 to state that with confidence. Actual testimony from ex-members in their own words does far far more than your approach, which simply plays into the cult's hands when it comes to cult damage control strategies.

    It really is a case of comparing the following:

    “LOL Xenu!”

    “I lost 22 years of my life.”

    Informing journalists works. Getting those journalists to talk with ex-members works. Scaremongering, particularly when done in the doxless manner you have done (remember, there is only so much space available in the pack), doesn't work.
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  12. Anonymous Member

    it gets worse

    Good ole LRH doing all that "relieving".
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  13. Anonymous Member

    Div6 will be thrilled having the bullshit explained to a whole new audience.
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  14. Anonymous Member

    so will the Martybots
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  15. Anonymous Member

    in some respects its the Irish Anons' own fault for losing interest leaving a vacuum for the tech lovers to come in and use the abandoned platform for dissemination. Sad days are sad. Memories are all we have now of the Emerald Isles ever really being "Clear" . . . oh, /b/ why have thee forsaken me . . . so close . . .

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  16. Anonymous Member

    Rather ironically, the approach you advocate has probably resulting in some folks getting recruited. If you actually inform people of what they will encounter (bearing in mind we only have a small mission in Ireland) it works as an inoculant. If you tell people about aliens and Hubbard and a whole host of shit they won’t encounter upon first walking in the door then they are as vulnerable as they were before getting your information.

    You have to realise that, for 95% of Irish members, they can legitimately look new recruits in the eye and deny the stuff you have said – simply because they themselves haven’t experienced it. Trying to vaccinate people with materials that will bear no resemblance to what they will actually encounter in Ireland doesn’t work – and there good illustrations of people who got roped in where this was the case, with the difference it what they were told and what they actually experienced damaging (in their eyes) the credibility of the critics.

    But if you explain the shit to people, backed up with ex-member testimony concerning the abuses, then it hits home much much harder. By giving them information about what they will actually encounter you protect them. LOL Xenu and going all Jim Corr may have their place, but without the solid foundation of the information relevant to a potential recruit it doesn’t work nearly as much as you think it does.

    You will need something more substantial than a few mocking one-liners to demonstrate where this is wrong. If you talk at length with an ex-member who had heard the Xenu story before they joined would it help you understand this?
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  17. Anonymous Member

    Nothing speaks louder than "UFO Cult" for inoculation purposes. Plus the media loves that shit. Getting ex members out is not my game, its a known fact they will come-to in their own good time when something intolerable impacts. Or not. Meanwhile, stopping people from ever picking up the hypno-cans in the first place is where I'm coming from. Apologetic nonsense about Hubbard trying to "relieve" people of their angst is apologetic. The only thing Hubbard was trying to relieve is the punters from their cash.

    I accept that its done now. The Press Pack is out there and its probably best to leave the organisers to their programme without undue interference. Its just a shame the lols have gone, is all.
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  18. Anonymous Member

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  19. Anonymous Member

    You are missing a key component to this. Part of the reason Scientology gets recruits to pick up the cans is because the whole ‘mystery sandwich’ psychology that really ropes people in. Something being ‘controversial’ or ‘kooky’, combined with an air of mystique, is a powerful toxin for folks on the search for something missing in their lives.

    The best way to combat this powerful psychological aspect? Remove the mystery by explaining it. For example, when you explain to someone how exactly a stress test works and feeds on emotions and insecurities then you render the test ineffective as a recruitment tool. This is a powerful driver that no amount of ‘LOL Xenu’ or stories about Flubbard will counter. It requires a ‘subtler’ approach.

    And btw, I have found that if you wait for a journo to ask about Xenu it tends to work a lot better. If you begin the conversation with Xenu then you don’t get to cover the actual abuses – resulting in an article that describes something kooky rather than something dangerous.
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  20. Anonymous Member

    No, I'm not missing that. It was made clear to me in the New Yorker article where Haggis talks about how "being different, being scorned by wider society" (something like that) was a part of the attraction. But I'm not interested in the odd balls and "rebels" - there's one born every minute. The idea, surely, is to go for mass inoculation whereby every time the word "Scientology" is encountered, the immediate reaction is "UFO Cult - avoid". Keep the punters from ever engaging in the first place will avoid any need to explain and, eventually, dry up the raw meat. For those who are lured in or want to know more (ie, dummies like me), there's 60 years (starting with Dr Winter) worth of material available where every little aspect is explained. Your approach appears to be to recreate the wheel and, in the process, ignore L Ron Hubbard's contribution to the mindfuck.

    If you're waiting for a journalist to ask the right question you're doinitrong. Xenu is central to Scientology's abuse as it serves as the perfect example of just how much the mindfuck fucks minds. Having said that, I too have encountered more than one journalist and, yeah, okay, the Xenu story seems, to them, less important than "the issue" they are covering - in one case I worked on, the government giving money to a front group. But the press pack isn't about one issue, its about the whole Scientology thang which begins with "clearing" the punter's "bank" and ends up at Xenu. In that context, explainingg how L Ron Hubbard was trying to bring relief to people is just plain wrong. Perhaps next time the Irish Ex-Community want to have conference they could (a) not use Anon credentials, and (b) pick a single theme and pound that using explanations of how the powerful psychological influences come into play in relation to it.

    TL/DR: Perception is reality - use it.
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  21. Anonymous Member

    Stay on target faggots:

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  22. Anonymous Member

    No, you really are missing it. What is worse is that, within the Irish the context, the mistake you are making is even more compounded.

    The target of the cult in Ireland these days tends to be on the younger side, often people who have grown disillusioned with the traditional mainstream religions. You have to recognise that, in Ireland, the rejection of groups like the Catholic Church (and the whole shitstorm that has been unearthed in recent years) by people renders the whole strategy of ‘LOL Xenu’ completely ineffective – because at that point you have made it about groups and beliefs, and the Jesus story those folks have just rejected isn’t exactly overflowing with credibility. It doesn’t work, and this isn’t just restricted to the few rebels and oddballs as you seem to imply. Maybe it works differently where you come from, but this is the case as it stands in Ireland.

    You are simply missing the same point. Giving people information that will not bear directly on their own experiences should they walk in the mission door is fail. Hubbard was ashes before the mission even got off the ground here, and I could quote off a dozen or so lines the Dublin staff have successfully used to sidestep the whole Hubbard issue. The reason those sidesteps work is because the Hubbard information doesn’t directly relate to the experiences of new recruits here. If the information you are using to inoculate doesn’t relate directly to what recruits will encounter then those recruits won’t make the connection you want them to.
    It depends what the journalist wants. I tend to find out their interest and give them information relevant to that. The information I choose to prioritise are the stories relevant to Ireland and the mission experience, which particular emphasis on the testimony of Irish family members and Irish ex-members.

    The bottom line is that ‘LOL Xenu’ isn’t a good starting people in Ireland for this conversation.
    Not in Ireland. We only have a mission here and fuck all of the Dublin staff have gotten to OT3. You are simply arguing for using information through which there is no referent within the Irish cult experience.
    Only 3 paragraphs deal with that, and not including such information is fail for all the reasons I have elucidated thus far. You do have to explain the thing you criticise in order to be able to criticise it successfully and fully. Nowhere was any claim made about Hubbard being relief to people, so I suspect that is either an inability to read or a bit of trolling on your part.

    Only 3 paragraphs, while the rest deal with the abuses.
    The press pack does actually describe important aspects to the psychology involved, albeit very briefly. Giving the overview works much much better, and the reasons should be obvious. Picking a single theme may educate about that one theme, but it wouldn’t really help with the myriad of other things that people can be roped in with.

    What we are trying to do is give the cliff notes to the relevant background concepts as a set up to the conference itself. To emphasise the aspect of Irish ex-members, and family members who have been affected, want to share their experiences. The background information on the Timeline is to act as a bit of a hook as, afawk, this information has never been collected into one place before.

    Let me recollect the key idea here via an example. Probably the most famous Scientology-related incident in Ireland is the Mary Johnson court case. While on the Late Late Show she remarked how she was in Scientology for two years without ever realising it was a ‘religion’, being under the impression that it was a self-help thing. No amount of “LOL Xenu” or Hubbard info would have inoculated against this. Mary was neither a rebel or a fool (she scored the higher result in the country in a leaving certificate subject for example). You know what may have helped? Information regarding the money, the introductory auditing, the coaching, etc. – information that would have been relevant to what she actually experienced.

    And here is my example. While protesting down in Cork I met a woman who asked where the Scientologists where (this was outside the Mind Body Spirit Festival, and there were plenty of folks plying their trade on the day). She had done a stress test and not recognised them. She could tell me all about Xenu. She could tell me all about Mary’s court case and her Late Late Show appearance. Even with that knowledge she had she still given them her details and had enquired about potentially calling by the next time she would be in Dublin. Maybe there is a lesson to be learned from stories like this one?

    Ireland doesn’t have an Org. That fact combined with our own particular cultural landscape, matters, and needs to be taken into account when tailoring the message.
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  23. Malory Member

    I don't think I've ever been coy about my loathing of the Freezone shit and the Dublin Anons have never given me any grief about it. The conference is SRS BZNS, the raid itself will have the lulz.

    Don't forget that you win a war by attacking on all fronts.
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  24. Anonymous Member

    Maybe you can help here Malory. You’ve seen my collection of dox that I bring to the protests right, and the reactions I get to different documents? There is a bit of everything in there (including OT3).

    The Remedy of Laughter, Obscene Dog and TR8 get good reactions. But you know what really hits home with people (and this based on over 3 years of showing this stuff at protests)? The PTS/SP pack, the flag price list and, with by far the strongest reaction of all, the ED I have that was sent to missions to teach them how to sell books and find ruins.

    OT3 and Hubbard telegram begging for help give people shits and giggles. But the ED scares the shit out of people. There was one particularly skeptical journalist (could be just devil’s advocate, can be hard to tell sometimes) that the ED won right over on the spot. This person had read all about the SO and the fair gaming of Paulette – but that one single doc hit home far greater than any of these. There is something about a doc like that, and knowing it was utilised in your own backyard, that really gets across the message.
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  25. Anonymous Member

    The message is simple: Scientology = UFO Cult ∴ Avoid. Make it a laughing stock, send it to the margins where only the truly fucked-up will venture for solace. You can't save everyone - save as many as you can with broadcast messages and perception reinforcement. Explaining is losing.

    I am well aware of Ireland's current cultural climate. Religion is collapsing as a steadying force, and economically, you're fucked. There is already an entire, disaffected tranche of unemployed youth looking for "something to do". Now is the time to paint Scientology as it really is - the the home of the truly fucked up UFO brigade, the last resort of total weirdo - and impressionable yoof will stay away. Start explaining it apologetically and they are more likely to try it out than if they know straight away "go near there and you're a moron". Scilon staff lying about Xenu when its all over the protest signs outside and splattered across the media will only reinforce the dichotomy of messages - and what's a yoof gonna believe these days: a tidily-dressed squaro or Facebook and the telly?

    Here's where L Ron Hubbard and Scientology gets its pass in the press pack:

    Scientology auditing is designed not to provide "relief" but to extract sufficient personal information so as to force compliance/silence via blackmail. Auditors are required to complete Knowledge Reports for Ethics based on what is said during sessions - why go soft-cock on it?
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  26. Anonymous Member

    Smart woman.
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  27. Malory Member

    Yep, the Irish (I'm talking both sides of the border) are pretty forgiving of wacky beliefs but will come down like a ton of bricks on any smartarse trying to con them.

    This is a country where you can barely chuck a stone without hitting a Holy Well or a Fairy Thorn and I know a lot of ordinary, pretty secular, people who think nothing about going to a faith healer - we're a curious mix of modern and ancient.

    So yeah, I agree with everything you're saying and I emphasise the fact it's a moneymaking scam to anyone I talk to.
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  28. Malory Member

    Sorry to snip but that's really not the case.
  29. Anonymous Member

    brilliant! i've quickly skimmed through the press packet and i see no real mention of chanology or anonymous. i see one ex in a gf mask and a xenu tee and one mention of an ex who woke up when he heard of a protest in 2008. i'm going out on a limb here and guessing it was an anon protest, but i could be wrong.

    this is in the dome so i'm going to leave this here: i hope to see video of christman speaking in an Irish brogue.

    faith 'n' begorrah.
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  30. Anonymous Member

    Fair nuff - but its losing ground:

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  31. Anonymous Member

    Yeah, sorry about the non-mentions of Anonymous. Marty said "no". But we did get the picture of the mask - that's good, isn't it?
  32. Anonymous Member

    Actually - if that's true, maybe another angle to attack is the "Scientology = Interfaith Compatability" lies. How can you be a Catholic AND a Scilon when L Ron Hubbard says Christianity is a Xenu implant?
  33. Anonymous Member

    Which doesn’t work here for the myriad of reasons I have detailed. You really aren’t getting this are you? To exemplify just how fail this approach is, one person who wanted to do a college project on Xenu walked in to the door and was in for a few months wondering why the fuck there was no Xenu. Dude nearly got snared because of the difference between what he had read on the internet and what he experienced on the ground – a difference that ultimately nearly got him done. Have a guess what type of information actually helped in his case?
    And yet you keep making suggestions that are at odds with this claim….
    This is an excellent example of where you are uninformed about our particular context. Those staff are NOT lying. They genuinely believe the OT3 stuff is a pack of lies, and they have stacks of tech volumes and green volumes and all their course materials with no Xenu in them to reinforce that. For recruits this really is a non-starter when it comes to inoculation.
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  34. Anonymous Member

    They are lying through their untreated teeth, only they don't know it. The fact that they are spouting shite with such "certainty" which can be clarified with but a few mouse-clicks reinforces how fucked up they are. You seem to be speaking from the perspective of an Ex looking to excuse her own fucked up decisions rather than a wog yoof who, in 2012, will check it out in the internet before going back. My point is to keep the punters from ever considering the lies in the first place by inoculating them BEFORE any dissemination encounter. Get it into the wog world's head first.
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  35. Anonymous Member

    Reasons for this include:
    1) This conference is being done by ex-members and family members. It’s their conference so it is there call.
    2) It would only distract from the testimony being offered. Had more than a few instances where journos were more interested in writing about anonymous than the Scientology abuses. This is a real opportunity where ex-members and family members will lay it out thick and fast about how dangerous and abusive the organisation is – why go off topic on it?
    3) Are you looking for credit or kudos? Because, like, that would be so fucking fail.
    4) We hope the conference as a means of reaching out to ex-members who have not yet approached us. The anon thing doesn’t really help with that. A lot of folks are out there who have real stories to tell and are need of a bit of healing.
    5) We also hope the conference can help to reach those currently in the cult too. Many of the people speaking at the conference are people known to current cult members – the anon thing would severely undermine this. For example, John McGhee can get a lot more tracking talking to current members having known them than any anons can.
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  36. Anonymous Member

    One of the more substantial discussions I've seen on WWP in awhile. Why is this in the dome?

  37. Anonymous Member

    I hope you can spot the small flaw in the logic here. In essence you are telling people that X is true when everything those people know and experience tells them the opposite. If you are a cult staff member and you have a long search through the mission library only to come dry on any Xenu references….

    And moreover than that, any new recruit that is filled up with Xenu will walk into the exact same trap and become easy raw meat.
    Not an ex. Just recognising four years of empirical experiences for what it signifies – that ‘LOL Xenu’ doesn’t work here as well as you think it does.
    Which ‘LOL Xenu’, for the myriad of reasons mentioned, fails to do. Showing a person a price list does way more to turn them off the cult than any amount of OT3. This isn’t a theoretical claim at this point – it is a little thing that has held true time and time again in practical experience.
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  38. Anonymous Member

    Because I was bored and I wanted to entertain myself why I posted up some draft posters?
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  39. Anonymous Member

    TL/DR: Marty said it wouldn't help KSW.
  40. Anonymous Member

    Gonna move this thread to AvS...

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