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IRS code may prohibit Scientology Exemption?

Discussion in 'News and Current Events' started by Major Boyle, Apr 6, 2010.

  1. Major Boyle Member

    IRS code may prohibit Scientology Exemption?

    IN the article on World Net Daily talking about Obamacare:

    A religious exemption to Obamacare mandate?

    There was this interesting little tidbit:

    "The health-care reform bill's language, however, specifically states that for a sect to qualify for the religious exemption, it must fall within the definitions of section 1402(g) of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986. That section requires a sect to have been in constant existence since at least Dec. 31, 1950, and requires the sect to reject not only insurance but also have sworn off receiving all benefits from the U.S. Social Security system. "

    Now, how can Scientology claim a religious tax exemption when it wasn't created until 1952?
  2. Sponge Member

    Re: IRS code may prohibit Scientology Exemption?

    Prediction: Huge failsuit that tries to claim that because Dianetics, written and published before Dec 1950, is referred to in scientology as "book one" then it is their "bible" and therefore...blah, blah, flarn, flarn, flannel, biggotry!!1111!!.
  3. Anonymous Member

  4. the_cloak Member

    Re: IRS code may prohibit Scientology Exemption?

    Since when has the IRS cared about the rules?
  5. Anonymous Member

    Re: IRS code may prohibit Scientology Exemption?

    time to
    Tax the Cult
  6. Scatman Member

    Re: IRS code may prohibit Scientology Exemption?

    Hubbard incorporated his scientology organization as a church in December 1953.
    The publication date of Dianetics has no relevancy whatsover. Nowhere in Dianetics does Hubbard state his therapy was part of a religion. The religion stuff came several years later on the advice of an attorney. Scientology will not qualify for an exemption from the U.S. national healthcare legislation.
  7. Ogsonofgroo Member

    Re: IRS code may prohibit Scientology Exemption?

    Interesting, wonder if they count people who've been forced onto the dole system too? This is in consideration of numerous testimonies of ex's who were forced onto welfare whenever a crisis (ie. no money or medical coverage, surprise surprise).
    Hard part> Since CoS has been ripping people off for years, not paying taxes, not paying living wages let alone SS payments for anyone, and generally fucking around with tax payer's dollars, where does this lead?
    Am curious and will watch intently.
    Oh, culty 'charitable exemption' (for which they augmented into meaning 'religious recognition') wasn't until years later (am forget, '91?).
    To quote Anne.......... 'So intersting!'

    :)
  8. Re: IRS code may prohibit Scientology Exemption?


    This is a GREAT find. I would love to see how the cult wiggles their way out of this one, which they probably won't be able to. They wouldn't even be able to keep their slaves from receiving mental health coverage as state and federal mandates called MENTAL HEALTH PARITY laws require that mental health be covered as any other biologically-based illness.

    Moar popcorn pleez.
  9. amaX Member

    Re: IRS code may prohibit Scientology Exemption?

    FLARN?! GARRRRRG!
  10. EyeOnSci Member

    Re: IRS code may prohibit Scientology Exemption?

    How does it work in countries that already have nationalized health care, such as in the UK?

    In the U S, I'm thinking that Scientology will likely pay nothing into the system and continue to take from it, since it is tax exempt. However, when medical care is needed, Scientology will expect care from the national health care system, even if it means throwing its members out on the street.
  11. exOT8Michael Member

    Re: IRS code may prohibit Scientology Exemption?

    This is now a meme.
  12. NCSP Member

    Re: IRS code may prohibit Scientology Exemption?

    If I understand the new bill correctly (and I don't), this probably means that CoS will be classified as an organization employing more than x number of people and therefore required to purchase health insurance for all its employees or pay a fine to the IRS for each employee.

    This is how it would work for businesses; I don't know if non-profits fall under the same rules.

    Could be expensive for Cos, though....nice find.
  13. Optimisticate Member

    Re: IRS code may prohibit Scientology Exemption?

    Great find. Now who do I need to call to get something DONE about it?

    "Oh hai, IRS? I'm a scientologist and have questions about this healthcare stuff. Because scientology didn't even exist until 1953 and your rules state 1950, is there some sort of exemption we can discuss? Do you have a dog?"
  14. hotdog57 Member

    Re: IRS code may prohibit Scientology Exemption?

    Dianetic was published in may 1950 I think, Any way the Scientologist all ways say they are 2 diffent subject all together.. Dianetic and Scientology are 2 diffent jubjects. So how can they claim ?...
    nothing in Dianetics has anything to do with God. or Scientology. and Dianetic is no bible not even close... Dianetic is only about the engram nothing else...
  15. BusinessBecky Member

    Re: IRS code may prohibit Scientology Exemption?

    I recall some stuff about how the IRS is not expected by the house to enforce very many of the new rules straight away. Kick the can down the road as long as you can kind of thing. The new health care was a big deal, and over exulted by the kool-aid drinkers. They think they accomplished something but the new rules is not going to improve anything just extend benefits to a couple million people and that's it. Health care is fucked up in the US I know, but two wrongs don't make a right.
    If this applies to the Scientology organizations, then the 'church' will just find a way around it and the IRS will look the other way like the IRS has been doing since the 90s.
  16. AIN Member

    Re: IRS code may prohibit Scientology Exemption?

    That is where we can stick them at. It means all members must send back their SS checks and not fall under the mandated health care.
  17. Anonymous Member

    Re: IRS code may prohibit Scientology Exemption?

    so, who here wants to raise the stink in the press and to the IRS? That is how shit gets done, you make said shit stink in the press, which pressures the IRS.
  18. NCSP Member

    Re: IRS code may prohibit Scientology Exemption?

    Actually, I just read the relevant portion of the bill, and the employer requirement seems to be framed as an amendment to the Fair Labor Standards Act, which does not apply in all cases to religious or nonprofit organizations. In fact, this may be the crux of what's being argued in the Headley case.

    Does anyone know what CoS's stand is on its employees' (not just SO) status under FLSA?

    (Also, this thread may be better in Leaks & Legal.)
  19. Anonymous Member

    Re: IRS code may prohibit Scientology Exemption?

    In my opinion, we seriously need to spin off a TAX section from Leaks and Legal.
  20. AIN Member

    Re: IRS code may prohibit Scientology Exemption?

    I agree, who knows, we might be able to enlist *gasp* the tea baggers!
    for starters, imagine the headlines "COS loses Tax status due to Tea Bagging."
    "COS Anonymously Tea Bagged"
  21. OTBT Member

    Re: IRS code may prohibit Scientology Exemption?

    Org and Mission staff contract:

    http://www.exposescientology.com/contracts/cos-staff-contract-1996.pdf

    Basically, Scientology claims that ALL staff members (not just Sea Org) are members of a Religious Order, and are therefore exempt from Minimum Wage laws, as well as exempt from all Federal and State labor laws.
  22. AIN Member

    Re: IRS code may prohibit Scientology Exemption?

    There is one caveat, they get involved in poltics, they lose their 501(c) status and are considered a PAC and therefore subject to taxation.
  23. NCSP Member

    Re: IRS code may prohibit Scientology Exemption?

    Thanks. So this would be the argument whereby they claim exemption from the requirement to provide health care under the bill. Oh, well, it was a neat idea. I guess there aren't going to be any shortcuts to getting their labor practices to change.

    A good verdict in the Headley case (ruling, in effect, that staff members are employees under the law) will be a great start, though.
  24. Sponge Member

    Re: IRS code may prohibit Scientology Exemption?

    They'll just wake their sleeper agents in the gubment offices and, armed with correcting fluid, change the cut-off date without anyone realising until after the bill is passed into law.
    Hey, it worked for them before in France didn't it?
    ;)

    /brb tinfoil.
  25. AnotherSock Member

    Re: IRS code may prohibit Scientology Exemption?

    Okay, the waiver that cultists sign when they first become staffers may give Scientology some wrangling-room on this one. But you're overlooking something of immense significance:

    By requiring that religious exemption must meet the definitions of section 1402(g) of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986, the US government indicate that they are going after Scientology. And quite right, too: the government represents the will of the people, and that means the majority, not the <25,000 lunatics that still yell at ashtrays.

    In the IRC of 1986, they could have chosen 1955, or 1980, or anything else... the 1950 cutoff is significant. It says "no wacky UFO cults, please" in no uncertain terms. I'm sure the date was chosen with Scamentology in mind, and that the current bill made reference to it for that reason.

    So, this isn't enough on its own, but as part of a combo, along with proving at some point in the near future that Sea Ogres and staffers aren't 'religious volunteers', it's financially devastating. Scientology is a very cash-positive business, and (with a trip to Lichtenstein, etc.) they can afford to pay the necessary back-taxes... but it'll hurt very, very badly.

    Most importantly, though, it shows that the current Administration are aware of what Scientology is, and are prepared to act against it. I am confident that we will see other moves against the cult in the years ahead.
  26. NCSP Member

    Re: IRS code may prohibit Scientology Exemption?

    Problem is, the part of the bill under discussion in the article is the one about requiring *individuals* to get insurance for themselves. The section requiring *employers* to provide health insurance to their workers is the one I mentioned, which will fall under the same law which requires minimum wage, overtime, etc.

    So all the date limitation means is that an individual Scientologist won't be able to say that his or her religion prevents him from having health insurance the way that, say, a Christian Scientist might. As long as the government continues to accept CoS as being exempt from federal labor laws, they won't have to provide insurance, because that requirement will exist only within the FLSA and nowhere else.

    Sea Org members will probably be able to get by without getting health insurance too, since the bill also exempts *individuals* who make less than a certain amount from having to do so.

    Sorry. I wanted it to be true, too, but it just ain't.

    PS - I would love to be corrected on this by someone who knows better, but I'm pretty sure I read it right.

    The insurance requirement is now just another facet of the constellation of labor laws that Scientology needs to be forced to implement; the only thing that will force them to do that is for some judge (maybe in the Headley case, which would if nothing else set a nice precedent) to classify Sea Org and staff as "employees" under FLSA.
  27. Re: IRS code may prohibit Scientology Exemption?

    This thread is sexy. We need to contact the IRS and get some questions answered. I love the 1950 cut-off point.
  28. OTBT Member

    Re: IRS code may prohibit Scientology Exemption?

    While I tend to agree with much of what you say, I gotta say, without dox, speculation is useless. Do you have anything to back up your opinion? If so, I would be very interested in reading it.

    The 1950 date is quite interesting. Read this:

    http://forums.whyweprotest.net/291-...roving-scientology-minister-exemptions-54046/

    Note the cutoff date specified by the IRS in that thread OP:

    The IRS code where that quote comes from:

    Internal Revenue Manual - 4.19.6 SSA Correspondence, Minister Waivers, and Application for Exemption from Social Security and Medicare


    ==========================

    Earlier related threads about UK:

    http://forums.whyweprotest.net/291-...zed-religious-workers-uk-border-agency-52752/

    http://forums.whyweprotest.net/7-ch...eclared-employees-subject-minimum-wage-59396/

  29. JohnnyRUClear Member

    Re: IRS code may prohibit Scientology Exemption?

    That is a Very Good Question -- for another site. :)
  30. NCSP Member

    Re: IRS code may prohibit Scientology Exemption?

    The 1950 date is interesting, but the only way it will have any effect at all related to Scientology is that if individual members want to claim that their religious beliefs exempt them from having to get health insurance for themselves, they can't.

    For Scientology to have to provide health insurance for its employees, they would have to be classed as "employees" under existing federal labor laws, which they aren't now (this is what the Headley case is all about, and why it's so important). If this happened:

    a) It wouldn't matter at all what date they were founded -- if they were founded a million years ago they'd still have to follow the law, and

    b) It would just add to the avalanche of money they'd have to pay out in wages, overtime, etc. Which is awesome! But still, this isn't the magic bullet.
  31. CrystalDallas Member

    Re: IRS code may prohibit Scientology Exemption?

    Oh wait...............
  32. AIN Member

    Re: IRS code may prohibit Scientology Exemption?

    the UK stuff is quite delicious, we should put a lot of pressure there.
    As for the IRS, Why not go after the COS bookstores? Since those are secular according to law (if memory serves) We could possibly either got a hiring discrimination suit started there to force them to clarify it and if it deemed to be a for profit entity, it would not fall under the 501(c) and therefore, make it "fair game" for us.
  33. MongoLloyd Member

    Re: IRS code may prohibit Scientology Exemption?

    First off. WND is almost as full of shit as the CoS itself (spreading bullshit about soy making kids gay and whatnot)

    Second, you've got a major fail in reading comprehension there. That's talking about an exemption to the insurance-requirement mandated by the bill. Which has nothing to do with their IRS tax exemption.
  34. Re: IRS code may prohibit Scientology Exemption?

    Co$ might have a case if the challenge the 1950 date as being arbitrary.
  35. new guy Member

    Re: IRS code may prohibit Scientology Exemption?

    i am sure Their are docs of them setting up PACS,i am looking for them .
    Here are some docs from 93.action-group-bill-cooper-john-ruane-1993.pdf
  36. Re: IRS code may prohibit Scientology Exemption?

    Thanks for the wrap-up. I wasn't aware that it fell under the same Labor Law categories as what is currently under litigation through the Headley case. This is one more item to file away temporarily until we get resolution on the Headley case.

    The waiver of penalty due to low income is one way out of the Obama HC bill but if they are to receive minimum wage plus OT this takes that out of contention.
  37. RightOn Member

    Re: IRS code may prohibit Scientology Exemption?


    exactly.

    don't forget the rules already written. ( was it 501C?) it states that no organization can be tax exempt if guilty of any crimes (not to sound scilony) or if any one person prospers from money collected from said organization (not in those words of course)
  38. andonanon Member

    Re: IRS code may prohibit Scientology Exemption?

    How to Lose Your Tax-Exempt Status - How Not to Lose Your Tax-Exempt Status - Avoid LosingTax-Exempt Status
  39. RightOn Member

    Re: IRS code may prohibit Scientology Exemption?

    ^^^^ ok it was 501 C, (thanks)
    but it does not mention anything about crimes committed. I know I read it somewhere
  40. Goosh Goosh Member

    Re: IRS code may prohibit Scientology Exemption?

    what we need is more media attention

    the iron is hot, and there is blood in the water after AC360 and the Jew York Times

    if we can turn up the pressure and turn the coverage into a feeding frenzy, it might motivate the government more to open their eyes and unplug their ears

    maybe we could ride on the coattails of the catholic church scandal

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