Is it true you met L. Ron Hubbard?

Discussion in 'Situation Rooms' started by Reversetide, May 7, 2013.

  1. Reversetide Member

    or is it more true that for all the posting about some guy named "L. Ron Hubbard", nobody in these on line critic groups have actually met L. Ron Hubbard? I would love to have met him to see for myself if he had anything substantial, of value, to offer people as a person, and if he did so.

    Does anyone know if there are any critic groups that are populated by people who have spent time with L. Ron Hubbard?

    <End of Reversetide’s comment>

    The following is a compilation of some of the information, from people who knew and met Hubbard personally, that have been posted to this thread. Among the evidence provided are multiple interviews,affidavits, and even whole books provided by this group of people who experienced Hubbard's dark side personally.

    Gerry Armstrong

    Gerry was the former personal secretary to L. Ron Hubbard. While in this role he was tasked with assembling materials needed for producing a biography for Hubbard. Reading these documents, and particularly given the large discrepancy between what these documents showed and what Hubbard had claimed regarding his life, allowed Gerry to, in his own words, “deprogram himself”. Hubbard had lied about his educational record (including being a nuclear physicist), he had lied about being wounded in battle, he had lied about his war record and the medals he had won, he had lied about his family and his wives, he had lied about explorations he had claimed to have performed, etc. In Gerry’s own words – “it was clear from these documents that Hubbard was a pathological liar”.

    His website:

    Andre Tabayoyon

    Andre served in a variety of roles during his time in Scientology. From being a recruiter for the Sea Organisation to being a case supervisor for the Rehabilitation Project Force. He also was, for a time, L. Ron Hubbard’s butler. Through his Scientology career he had much interaction with Hubbard, including working with him on the Apollo in the early 70’s where he was overboarded, as well as personally witnessing Hubbard drugging himself into a stupor.

    His affidavit:

    Hana Eltringham Whitfield

    Hana served in the Sea Organisation for over 22 years, and during that time captained two ships. She was given the title commodore in 1967, while later she also served as deputy commodore for Hubbard on land in the US. You can get an idea of her status within Scientology by the fact that Hubbard cited her as a witness in his “Mission Into Time” book, an account that Hana would later disembowel.

    Hana in her own words (later parts are also on YouTube):

    Ron DeWolf

    Ron was L Ron Hubbard’s son, and later changed his name in order to escape harassment from the Scientology cult. He is most famous for supplying Bent Corydon with the information used to write the illuminating book “Messiah or Madman?”.

    Messiah or Madman book:

    Ron being interviewed on his experiences of Hubbard:

    Sharone Stainforth

    Sharone was about 6 years old when her parents got involved with Scientology. As a 10-year old girl she signed a billion year contract to join the Sea Organization in 1967 on board their ship the Royal Scot Man (later the Apollo). She was one of the original Commodore’s Messengers, working solely under L. Ron Hubbard, where she bathed his feet and dressed him.

    Sharone in her own words:

    Kate Bornstein

    Kate, born Albert Herman Bornstein, worked with Hubbard on board the Freewinds. She also helped in some of the dodger aspects of Scientology finances.

    Her account:

    Dennis Stevens

    Dennis started the first Dianetics group in the UK, and was involved in Scientology from the earliest days in the 1950’s. Notes that he wrote were collected and formed the foundation of the work “The Resolution of Mind”.

    His account (both transcripts and audio):

    Kima Douglas

    When Hubbard's health was rapidly deteriorating from 1973 to 1980, Kima became a unique combination of nurse, aide de camp and confidante to him.

    Interview with her here:

    Bill Franks

    Served as Senior Management Executive International, and worked with Hubbard closely. He personally observed Hubbard order the commission of illegal activity and targeting of his critics.

    His affidavit:
    His story:

    Sara Northrup

    Sara was one of Hubbard's ex-wives, and was subjected to what she describes as "systematic torture, including loss of sleep, beatings, and strangulations and scientific torture experiments".

    Her affidavit:

    Cyril Vosper

    Cyril was the first ex-member of Scientology to write a book, the Mindbenders, that was critical of the cult. The cult sued to try preventing the books publication citing breach of copyright. They lost the case with the judgement stating "But, I think that, even on what we have heard so far, there is good ground for thinking that these [Scientology] courses contain such dangerous material that it is in the public interest that it should be made known."

    The Mindbenders book:

    Monica Pignotti

    Monica served on board the flagship Apollo. She has personal experience with Hubbard, his son Quentin, as well as experience with the Rehabilitation Project Force.

    Her story:

    Barbara Kaye (Klowdan)

    L Ron Hubbard's former PR Assistant and lover interview.

    Her interview:

    Nieson Himmel

    Nieson was a young journalist with a keen interest in science fiction. That was how he had met the chemist Jack Parsons after the Second World War, and it was through Parsons that he met L. Ron Hubbard. He actually shared a room with Hubbard in Parsons' rambling mansion in Pasadena, where Hubbard and Parsons practiced bizarre sex magick and vied for the love of Sara Northrup (who later eloped with Hubbard and became his second wife).

    His interview:

    Richard DeMille

    Richard was one of L. Ron Hubbard's earliest celebrity recruits, though it was perhaps more a case of reflected glory - he was the son of the famous director Cecil B. DeMille. He became one of Hubbard's right-hand men during the traumatic two-year rise and fall of Dianetics, saw the establishment of Scientology and participated in Ron's kidnapping of his daughter and wife. He left in the mid-1950s as he became increasingly doubtful about the usefulness of Hubbard's work.

    His interview:

    David Mayo

    David spent 25 years in the Church of Scientology, making him one of the most experienced people to have served in that organisation.. His long experience as auditor to the most senior Scientologists, including L. Ron Hubbard and his wife, gave him considerable status. Following factional infighting in the early 1980s, he left (or more accurately was expelled) in 1983 and was subsequently denigrated as a "squirrel" par excellence. He nonetheless remained loyal to Hubbard's tenets and started an "Advanced Ability Center", using Hubbardian techniques and derivatives thereof. The AAC now appears to be defunct.

    His interview:

    Glenn Samuels

    Glenn lived and worked aboard the Flagship Apollo where he was personally trained as a counsellor by Hubbard. Glenn left Scientology in 1982 after seeing Scientology’s corruption and greed firsthand. (link is to his firsthand experiences with Hubbard)
    His story:

    Helen O'Brien

    Helen and her husband, John Henry Neugebauer (nicknamed "Noyga") were with Hubbard since the earliest days of Dianetics and the first Dianetic foundations. In her book, "Dianetics in Limbo", Helen gives detailed recollections of interractions with Hubbard, her work at the Foundation and personal experiences with Dianetics and Scientology. She left, disillusioned,in 1953.
    Her book:

    The Secret Lives Documentary

    Features testimony from many people who personally knew Hubbard, including Jim DinCalci, Robert Vaughn Young, Hana Eltringham, Cyril Vosper, Gerry Armstrong, Pam Kemp, Victoria Downsborough and Mike Goldstein.


    Transcript of the video:
  2. Anonymous Member

    Try ESMB or OCMB.

    As for me, Hubbard's halitosis would have overshadowed any meeting with him.
    • Like Like x 2
  3. OTeleventy Member

    Check gottabrain here, and quentinanon, and jeff jacobsen. ECMB has tons that were there with elaraitch. A Face in the Crowd is a stand out. Cowboy posted there for a while and his stuff was very interesting. What are you looking for in particular?
    • Like Like x 1
  4. Gottabrain Member

    No, it is completely false.

    The majority of people who knew L Ron Hubbard personally left Scientology completely. A number of them are still alive. A few of the more notable people still alive who knew the man personally include: his butler/personal assistant/personal bodyguard, Andre Tabayoyon, who knew him since the Apollo and spent over 20 years with him personally (more hours alone with Hubbard than any single other person, ever), David Mayo (his personal auditor and C/S, who worked with him for over 15 years) Hana Whitfield, who worked with Hubbard on the ships and has many stories to tell of his abuse of children and others. All of these individuals and thousands of others believe scn was a scam and L Ron Hubbard a brutal man, a con-artist and crazy.

    Feel free to Google their names.

    Additionally, numerous people who worked during the years Hubbard was alive have horror stories to tell of Hubbard's brutal treatment of children and others that they directly experienced or witnessed.

    The Church of Scientology and Scientologists have spread the rumour you heard, which they cannot substantiate in any way. 95% of all people who joined Scn left it, including Hubbard's children. The majority of those who knew Hubbard and many others gave personal testimony of the terrible abuses Hubbard inflicted on themselves and others.
    • Like Like x 14
  5. Anonymous Member

    Please, let me add Gerry Armstrong.

    This pair of links will point the OP in the appropriate directions...
    • Like Like x 7
  6. Anonymous Member

    You know that the dude wrote some books in which he had an opportunity to say anything he wanted to convey?
    • Like Like x 3
  7. So, in other words, no one here in this critic group?
  8. Yes there are books and then there is meeting and observing people with other people. If I wanted to ask about books I would have asked about books.
  9. I am looking to talk to people who were with L Ron Hubbard, to find out why this large community was found the legs it did, if it had anything to do with some value or benefit people found themselves left with out of being with L Ron Hubbard.
  10. Anonymous Member

    For The Record - WWP is an Activist/Activism Site, not a 'critic' site.
    You've come to the wrong place.
  11. oops, sorry, please feel free to delete the thread, I thought this was a critic site.
  12. Gottabrain Member

    Yes, there are people in this critic activist group who knew Hubbard personally. Many post anonymously. Lurk moar.
    • Like Like x 1
  13. Gottabrain Member

    I think the thread should stay up. Lots of great links, names and statements of those who knew Hubbard personally for the scammer and cruel man he was and besides, your question resolves the rumour.
    • Like Like x 4
  14. It is pretty obvious that for all your surety and self perceived authority, you never met L. Ron Hubbard, but have no problem talking about him as if you did.
  15. Anonymous Member

    Good idea if you want to marry someone.
    • Like Like x 1
  16. Anonymous Member

    I hear that if you met him, he would give you a special rub. Magic.

    Wait a minute! What is anyone doing criticising Hubbard's crap without meeting him?
    • Like Like x 3
  17. Anonymous Member

    I think it is about time this site was shut down. I know scientology is pernicious. But, face facts, we ain't never done met L Ron Hubard, personal like.
  18. I heard Santa Clause was real and that people were kidnapped by aliens and then returned after a thorough probing and that Obama was not American along with a few other things. I heard there are people who can levitate in Nepal. I heard that Jesus walked on water.
  19. Is this all to distract away from that you never met L Ron Hubbard? Rumour and conjecture are the new reality for people who have been involved in the internet for a while.
  20. Gottabrain Member

    It's pretty obvious from your poor communication skills and lack of manners that you are a Scientologist.

    Still, I'm happy to provide some stories.

    My former RPF twin, Janet, was on the ship with Hubbard. She told me about the rock party. She told me about other times Hubturd made a fool of himself. She was there personally, she was one of the people present during "Mission Into Time" too. Surely as a Scientologist you read that book?

    According to Janet, the whole "searching for evidence for past lives" was a hoax and con. Hubbard was out for treasure. The ships went to place after place and he forced the crew to dig here, dig there - for long hours in backbreaking efforts to find treasure, "based on Hubbard's past life recall".

    Of course, they never found anything valuable.

    There was also absolutely no substantiation of anyone's past life memories. Course, that's not what Hubbard wrote.

    Another time, Hubbard had docked the ship and walked out in his full self-congratulatory medals and paraphernalia. The locals pointed fingers and laughed. Hubbard was so angry and embarrassed that he ran back up the ship and left the dock. He accused them of being SPs.

    Another time, he docked the ship and locals threw rocks. People were hurt, it was very bad.

    Would you like to hear more stories?
    • Like Like x 13
  21. Karen-12.jpg
  22. You never met the person but because you dislike him and have strongly held opinions about him, you consider yourself an expert on him. I would love to talk to "Janet".

    I am not a Scientologist, and would not touch that community with a ten foot pole.

    As for that that phenomena called "past lives" is an interesting topic but not one I would discuss on the internet.
  23. What is with this Karen de la Carriere picture show?:confused: I feel like I am in the wizard of oz and the great wizard has appeared behind the smoke and mirrors trying to intimidate the townsfolk.:eek:
  24. I agree. LOL

    Hey Gottabrain, this place is full of retards. (not u)
  25. Anonymous Member

    Reveredtidez, please be consistent. Don't criticise anyone you haven't met, if that is your standard.

    I understand that you have your knickers in a twist that other people dare do so.

    Would you allow someone to praise L Ron Hubbard and his written drivel, if they haven't met him?

    What would make you happy?
    • Like Like x 8
  26. Gottabrain Member

    No, I am not an expert, but I consider Gerry Armstrong, Andre Tabayoyon, Hana Whitfield, David Mayo, the person who posts as "afaceinthecrowd" on ESMB, "Veda" on ESMB, "cowboy" on ESMB, and Hubbard's children to be experts on him. Read what L Ron Hubbard Junior stated of his experiences growing up with L Ron Hubbard and how he came to be what he was in Bent Corydon's book, "Messiah or Madman".

    If you're not a Scientologist, that's great, but I have my doubts. Many Scientologists post beginning with, "I'm not a Scientologist, but..." and the majority of those with which I've spoken on forums had poor communication skills and bad manners - probably because they have such a hard time accepting that L Ron Hubbard was nothing special, a con-artist, and factually quite a self-indulgent, cruel man.

    For some reason, Scientologists become personally offended when anyone says something factually critical of Hubbard. They seem to have trouble understanding that they and Hubbard are not one and the same person and have a very hard time discussing the man objectively, so resort to stabbing insults of any who dare mar their concept of him as "the great humanitarian" they've been brainwashed to believe.

    Oh, here's a great video of personal experiences with L Ron Hubbard from Hana Whitfield:

    • Like Like x 9
  27. Gottabrain Member

    Yeh, but what an awesome opportunity to provide heaps of firsthand links and testimonies of protestors and exes who knew the Flubtard personally, all accessible in one thread through Google when someone posts the question, "Have you met L Ron Hubbard?" or "Who knew L Ron Hubbard personally?"
    • Like Like x 3
  28. I do not owe you consistency, I never promised it to you and you never promised that to me. You can expect it if you like, I am declining it. And it is not for me to "allow" or not "allow" anyone do do or not do anything. I am just curious about L Ron Hubbard and how groups get formed out of whatever one person is or provides the original people in that group. it is intriguing. I would include any group on earth, the whole spectrum from the ones we approve of to the ones we all agree were horrific. I think people are off a bit in casually talking about L Ron Hubbard as if they knew him, as if they are experts. No matter how flawed he was or wasn't, i would want to meet him for myself to see what he brought to the party, for myself, there is no flaw in that. I am not approving or promoting him as a good or bad person. I certainly would not do that based on anything anyone on the internet said to me.
  29. Gottabrain Member

    • Like Like x 6
  30. Hey no problem at all. He has promised to return. Ill buzz you when he gets back.
    • Like Like x 4
  31. LOL Gottabrain. Simultaneous post. Great minds and all that...
    • Like Like x 2
  32. this is conspiracy theory crazy talk where everything that does not promote the conspiracy theory is second guessed and proof of x. Ridiculous.

    As for manners, sorry for the lack of them. The www is not my best format for being a human being, I type with two fingers and become an argumentative nitpicking brain when I am in front of the laptop, oblivious that i am actually talking to others. My points are rational but I do forget about manners and you are right to point that out.
  33. Anonymous Member

    Good for you. I wish you every success in your tetchy, unsatisfiable quest.

    Try target two.
    • Like Like x 5
  34. Anonymous Member

    I got in WAAY to late with that one, GAOP, Gottabrain.
    • Like Like x 2
  35. Anonymous Member

    Don't forget he also had a wife who tried to commit him to a psychiatric institution...
    • Like Like x 3
  36. Gottabrain Member

    • Like Like x 2
  37. OK, Mister/Miss Reverse Tides, nice try. Using your logic no American citizen outside those that actually met President Obama can criticize his policies. Further, no one that didn't personally get ripped off at Narconon should never speak their minds regarding the insurance and rampant credit card frauds of Narconon. Interesting approach, but it still smells like a Clam troll that cannot make logical arguments that stand up to scrutiny.

    And you easily fall into ad hominem attacks when given questions you cannot answer. Nice touch.

    Your nickname + bad logic + ad hominem attacks = Smells like a clam needing stats to me.
    • Like Like x 11
  38. "I see your point. Unfortunately, the Church of Scientology pays folk to add comments that start that way. They get pretty repetitious. I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt, though."

  39. Declined.

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