Discussion in 'Situation Rooms' started by Reversetide, May 7, 2013.
Maybe you can find one of his former child slaves to chat with you - the 12 year old girls who he had carry his ashtray around and were supposed to be extensions of his INTENTION.
By the way, how do you look in a halter top? You know, Ron might return, and he'll be needing new Commodores Messengers. "It's the sensible thing to do."
I knew Hubbard in a past life if my auditing experience counts for anything. I imagine that many Scientologists of a certain age will lay claim to having known Hubbard in a past life. In fact, there is a whole "past life Clear" thing in Scientology which has to do with meeting Hubbard in a past life. And that is not even bringing up the whole sooper sekrit "Loyal Officer" thing in the Sea Org where they all knew Hubbard back in the day when Xenu was defeated.
There are thousands of Scientologists who think they knew Hubbard their prior life, most of them also think they're were audited by Hubbard, and most of those think they were audited by Hubbard to "Clear."
Look at me, I'm awesome and special! I was a loyal officer who saved the human race, yippie!
Good for you. Cynicism is good. Round here, we like proof. We like hard evidence.
Having a dislike for Hubbard purely on the grounds that some people said he wasn't very nice would be silly. But those aren't our grounds for disliking the man.
Here, for example, is hard evidence that Hubbard's military record was faked:
It shows that the version of Hubbard's military record which Scientology promotes as real does not match the actual military record held in the national archive.
He was not wounded in the war - he did not use dianetics to cure his wounds. In the words of scientology spokesperson Tommy Davis,
Came back to read all the illuminating posts, read everything you said, I did, the people here are so intelligent .
But still, not a single person who met L. Ron Hubbard talking about their direct experience of that much talked about person. Not that there is anything wrong with that.
Hubbard is dead. Many people here were born after Hubbard died. They also don't get to meet Einstein, Harry S Truman, Mae West, or Judy Garland either. However all public figures alive or dead are judged by people who never knew them by their works. Them's the beans. Hubbard is on record doing some pretty heinous things. These things were witnessed by people who knew him for years and have spoken out publically. Your point is?
Reading the word "tree" is not the same as seeing a real tree, never was, never will be. I am not invalidating or minimizing or saying anything about the word "tree", just saying they are not the same. I see value in distinguishing the two, as not the same. I am not saying anything original, profound or groundbreaking obviously.
Although I was not around El Ron in the latter years, I was around Hisself in the days that Hisself was, IMO, beginning to more and more “check out” for periods of time. Kima’s Narrative re: her Mad Hatter ride from KAC is indicative of what I am talking about and Cowboy’s straight shooting recent vignettes here on ESMB, continue that vein. It is my firm view that from the early ‘70’s on, and most probably earlier, El Ron incessantly and increasingly lived in a fear that grew to a terror of being “caught”—not just for Hisself’s lies, frauds and crimes but for being “Insane”. In short, I think El Ron deep, deep down inside knew Hisself was "Mad".
Not a madness, such as was wonderfully portrayed by Sean Connery as poet Samson Shillitoe in the ‘60’s Flick, A Fine Madness; or by Cary Grant as everyman overnight heir Longfellow Deeds in the ‘30’s Flick, Mr. Deeds Goes To Town; or the heroic genius mathematician Nobel Laureate John Nash, portrayed by Russel Crowe in the ’01 Flick, A Beautiful Mind.
I have no doubt that a number of the folks that made up the Inner Circle in the latter years knew full well what I and many other’s from the Apollo and SU Era knew full well—El Ron’s condition was such that if Hisself ever was deposed, cross examined or evaluated by an Expert, Hisself would come off, at best, like Humphery Bogart as Commander Queeg in the ‘50’s Flick, The Caine Mutiny. There woulda been—pathologic fidgeting and all—a “Strawberries” moment:
“Ah, but was the strawberries...that's where I had them. They laughed at me and made jokes but I proved beyond the shadow of a doubt and with... geometric logic... that a duplicate key to the wardroom icebox DID exist, and I'd have produced that key if they hadn't of pulled the Caine out of action. I, I, I know now they were only trying to protect some fellow officers...” Commander Queeg to the Military Court, “The Caine Mutiny”.
Only, in the scenario in El Ron’s head and the heads of Hisself’s Demon Spawn, it would not be an empathic, sympathetic and respectful Court of Fellow Officers probing for the facts, looking for the truth and standing in judgment—it would be the eeevvvviiiilll Psychs, Gubmint and SP’s out to “get” Hisself.
Why am I so confident that a “number of the folks that made up the Inner Circle in the latter years knew full well”? Because El Ron’s behavior was all too obvious—the paranoia, the mood swings, rage, hyper obsessive/compulsive and bursts of manic franticness. Nothing was ever said outwardly but I could see me fellow Inner Circle members' eyes, their body language and hear it in their voices and how we were all always "tap dancing" whenever interacting with Hisself.
Somewhere, in the PDC IIRCC, El Ron says, “there’s a fine line between OT and Insanity.” As there is no such thing as “OT”…certainly not as El Ron defines it…I am only left with the conclusion that I finally arrived at after pondering all this, and all that I had experienced around Hisself, for years post my SO career—El Ron was walking Hisself’s own “fine line” between what Hisself singularly “saw” as “Full OT” and what Hisself singularly “saw” as “Insanity”.
I am pretty darn certain many of the Inner Circle from the latter Children of the Corn Era viewed El Ron’s behavior, demeanor and ways as being a manifestation of Hisself’s “Full OTness” that, to “lesser” beings Hisself could, at times, appear “different”, “eccentric” or even a little bit “crazy” because they were still so “aberrated”; that Folks “Lower” than themselves would not “get ‘It’”; that it was frustrating at times to be El Ron and have to deal with lesser, inferior beings all the time; that “Wogs” wouldn’t have clue about, would mistake, and misunderstand and not “see” just how “OT” Hisself truly was because, after all, even they the “Chosen One’s” couldn’t fully Grock Hisself or “IT”.
I honestly think that the forgoing was the underpinning to Hisself’s self-isolation, always on the run modus, fear of being alone in public, constant anxiety at being with anyone that is not safe yet having to always have someone with him to take care of him, be with him, protect him.
IMHO, El Ron deep down inside feared being “captured” and “handed over” to the Psychs to be “enslaved”, “F’d with” and “tortured” for “all eternity”.
As I have previously Posted about on ESMB, during the time El Ron was Hospitalized following Hisself’s heart attack, I was one of the "early responders".
Needless to say, El Ron was not the most cooperative or pleasant of patients and although Hisself had a private room and nurses and around the clock personnel at his beck and call, Hisself was not a happy camper to say the least.
Kima Douglas was the ramrod for the whole ordeal and virtually spent 24/7 with Hisself and trying to keep the whole thing from becoming more of a fiasco than El Ron was intent on making it. Gawd I don’t know how she did it, nor weathered what she did in service to Hisself for so long. She is truly a remarkable and stellar human being and is welcome in any trench I’m ever under fire in.
On the Island of Curacao there was virtually no fresh milk available anywhere for anyone. El Ron had to have fresh milk every day and the resourceful and dedicated El Ron Household Unit personnel had managed to secure a supply of two pint bottles a day of fresh milk for Hisself, via the Executive Chef of the luxurious Intercontinental Hotel. They paid handsomely for that milk, BTW.
The milk came from an elderly Dutch Petroleum Engineer that had grown up on a farm, retired to a small farm in the countryside and supplied the Hotel with first quality garden veggies and a daily supply of fresh milk, cream and buttermilk from a half dozen Jersey milk cows.
There were some real fine Folks in the Household Unit, of whom and which I’ve written about earlier in Shooting Stars, and I had become friends with a number of them. One morning, a day or two after El Ron’s Hospitalization, there was a pall hanging over some of my friends and when I inquired as to what was up, one of my Buds said, “The CommodeDoor is very upset that there was no fresh milk for his breakfast.” Turns out the Dutchman had been injured and there was no fresh milk that morning for the Hotel or the CommodeDoor.
Apparently, as I was told years later by someone that was an eye witness, the “OT de OT’s” had turned rage red, spit out the powdered milk Hisself had been served, chucked cup across the room and nearly had another heart attack. Hisself was being “poisoned”, El Ron raged and demanded fresh milk only be served to him...now, Now, NOW!
I grew up on a cattle ranch that, besides the beef cattle, had a small herd of Dairy cows. I offered my services and within an hour or so was sitting in the living room of the Dutchman, convincing him that I could milk his cows and would do so for free. He was pretty bruised up and had a had his right arm in a sling from being pushed into the side of his barn by one of his cows that was the “skittish” one (seems like there’s always one them critters).
Like all un-milked cows, the little beasts were all bunched around the fence gate, balling their big brown eyes out. Problem was, the pasture they were in was the back pasture and I had to cross another pasture to get to the gate and open it so they could walk to the milk barn. It had rained the night before and as I stepped out into the front pasture I noticed it was crawling with snakes. I turned around and scurried back to the farmhouse.
“Are there any venomous snakes on Curacao?” I asked the Dutchman.
He smiled and said, “They’re all over the place, but they’re easy to recognize…they’re all wearing dresses.”
And lo, the Demonic Cult Leader got his fresh milk and the Universe was again calm…for yet another brief moment in time.
Every day for about a week I milked the Farmer’s Cows and the Hotel and Hisself got their daily supply courtesy of yours truly until the farmer’s son, a pilot for KLM, was able to arrange Leave Time to help his father out for a while.
El Ron’s “validation” for this “OT stunt” on my part was of a nature that you woulda thought I had brought down the American Psychiatric Association.
The best part of it all was not being an “Hero”…the best part was becoming friends with the Farmer, getting a break from the Apollo and the “Thank You” from the Executive Chef. I spent an unforgettable afternoon at this home, eating fresh fish he had caught that morning and a meal that he personally prepared for me. It was one of the finest meals I’ve ever had anywhere. The Pièce de résistance was relaxing in his living room after the meal, sipping 80 year old Cognac and listening to his treasured American Jazz record collection. We both agreed—and toasted—that ole Satchmo was the best.
When I related this story to the Port Captain it was suggested that the Port Captain’s Office should take the Chef a Stars Album. “Oh, I said, he already has one.” There was no way I was gonna put my Host and new found Friend through the “Wall of Noise” of that POS.
That was one of the days that I transiently thought about saying Fug It and walking away but, I didn’t—not for another number of years. I continued to do my “Duty”, honor my “Contract” and “Milk Cows” for the CommodeDoor. In the end, that’s all turned out fine—it led me here and gave me the spear with which to gore Hisself’s Galactic Ox.
I have trod Scns Erebus Paths, drank drafts of El Ron’s Lethe Waters and walked a path through Hisself’s Hades Spell. I came back. Others are on their way back and more will follow. It makes my Heart sick and sad that there are some still there and some that are determined to dwell there, permanently.
We will never know the full true Story and Truth about El Ron’s final days. What I do know from my Life and Times with El Ron is this:
Greed knows no rest.
Madness never sleeps.
She recently died.
Thanks. Sad. One less witness to the horrors of Hubbard.
Gerry Armstrong, Maclean's Magazine - October 2012:
The subject of this particular meeting concerns the LRH probate case in Riverside, California, and, as always, more corporate "sort-out." Lawyers have advised that there is still too much evidence to prove that LRH is incompetent to manage his own affairs. This is crucial, since the case has been brought by LRH"s son Nibbs, who has claimed that LRH is incompetent to manage his own affairs and that his estate is being stolen by the Church of Scientology under David Miscavige's leadership. Nibbs is hoping to take over LRH's assets if he can prove that LRH is incompetent. So this is a very serious threat.
LRH has repeatedly said he wants different lawyers to represent him, and that he wants different legal advice on how to win this case against Nibbs. But DM has decided that the lawyers LRH already has (and who were chosen, of course, by DM) are the best possible legal counsel. LRH specifically doesn"t like the fact that these attorneys are advising him to back away from managing Scientology"s affairs. Part of the reason for this is that DM feels (and has told the attorneys) that LRH is losing his grip on reality.
In truth, DM was not the only one who knew that LRH was an old man past his prime, with no real "new ideas" or "brilliant revelations" for quite some time. All he could do was say the same thing, over and over: "There are more BTs! Many more than people realize!" Hubbard really was a bit senile at the end there - his brain pretty well fried by a wide range of drugs which he used for his "research" -- and this scared the hell out of his top messengers and others near him.
For many years, LRH's top aide, Pat Broeker, and his wife, Annie Broeker, looked after the daily care of LRH. Pat was the financial conduit between LRH and the vast reserves of liquid cash mounting in the multiple corporations of Scientology which LRH always had at his disposal. David Miscavige would be called by Pat to bring hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars in cash in briefcases to cover "basic expenses" for LRH and his small crew of four staff. Often the prearranged meeting place was near Las Vegas. On many of these occasions, Pat and Dave would go to a casino and gamble away thousands of dollars of LRH's money, just hanging out having a good time together.
But as LRH felt his grasp on the Scientology empire weakening, he became extremely suspicious of Dave and ordered me to give him a security check to see if Dave was trying to prevent LRH from having his way with the church as he was used to having. Basically, LRH was upset that he could not simply romp from one fake corporation to another, wreaking havoc in his wake, as he had always done. And he was being advised by attorneys whom Dave had hired that in order to protect his money, he should disappear for a while. All of these circumstances added up for LRH, and he was not at all sure he could trust DM. He was afraid DM was trying to take over. Sure, he had practically raised Dave from a pup, but still, who could be trusted in this business?
So I was ordered to sec check DM to determine his real motives for passing along legal advice that he back off from his own church. When I walked into Dave"s office he was crying like a child who had taken a crap in his pants and now stank to high heaven. Dave swore up and down to me that he was only following LRH"s own orders to get an "All Clear" -- meaning to get LRH dismissed from all the outstanding litigation -- so that LRH could travel freely again, without fear of subpoenas or worse.
LRH had been in hiding, not only from the public but also from 95 percent of all his staff, for the last fifteen to twenty years anyway. Dave was extremely indignant at being asked such incriminating questions, but because of the questions I was asking him, he was fairly certain that LRH would soon assign him to the RPF (the Rehabilitation Project Force, Scientology"s political prison).
In the security check Dave made sure he told me about the trips to the casinoes, the heavy drinking and the women he and Pat had enjoyed together. Dave freely confessed his sins and Pat Broeker"s sins as well. He said if he was going to go down, he was going to make sure Pat Broeker went down as well. He was very critical of Pat, saying he had a long history of alcohol abuse and recklessly spending LRH's money. Of course, the person who received the report of Dave"s sec check was Pat Broeker. So it didn"t surprise me a bit when Dave and Pat suddenly became best buddies again. I seriously doubt that anything but reports full of glowing praise for Dave ever went to LRH. In retrospect I realize both Pat Broeker and David Miscavige had an interest in keeping the status quo with LRH, since both of them had dreams of one day being the new dictator of Scientology once the current Ding Dong king was dead.
LRH went on spending his millions freely on property and "research" (all this really meant was that he was buying more and more drugs for himself) and buying exotic animals like buffalo, llamas, swans and peacocks at the ranch at Creston.
LRH seemed resigned to follow the legal advice of Dave"s lawyers and stayed away from Scientology. However, he made it known that he was still very salty about the whole deal and refused to make contact as he had done in the past.
About a year and a half later he became very ill.
- From a post by Jesse Prince (firstname.lastname@example.org)
Jesse Prince at Hamburg:
Way to go, everyone! On a Google search of those who met L Ron Hubbard, this thread comes up first. I love all these personal testimonies.
Thank you, reversetidez, for persisting in asking for as many personal testimonies as possible.
I never asked for "as many personal testimonies as possible", I don't know where you got that from.
I was not asking and did not ask if anyone has ever met L. Ron Hubbard nor was I asking is there anyone who has ever met L. Ron Hubbard who was/is critical of him. I asked if there were any critic-groups populated by people who have actually met L. Ron Hubbard.
How old are you? Do you have opinions about about anyone or anything that you've never met or seen? Holee f'ng keeryst. Are you for real? I'm not saying anything original, either. In fact, if this is truly your raison d'etre, to troll about "you must touch it, you must 'know' a person" before one can have an opinion, then I most humbly suggest you commence to traveling and meet you some Kim Jung Un, and some Ahmadinejad, so you can develop some fucking opinions. BTW, how's the weather in Reykjavik right now? Internet says ... oh wait. Never mind.
ETA: Number 1. ESMB. Number 2: critical thinking. Look it up. You might learn something.
?? I don't get it. First of all, we've already told you this is an activist site, not a critic site but you keep calling it a critic group. We've posted heaps of testimonies of people who personally met L Ron Hubbard. Are you saying they are not members of Anonymous? Or are you saying that because they don't want to discuss it with you personally, they haven't met Hubbard? Because that seems to be what you're saying. Personally, I don't blame them at all for not wanting anything to do with you.
You're not making a lot of sense here. Oh, found another one! I'm really enjoying this project! All these firsthand testimonies about life with Ron in one single thread!:
Your comprehension is poor but you are a reasonable troll. The fact that I am taking the bait shows that.
You have had many, many answers about which people met Hubbard. They were given to you earlier in the thread. Hubbard died in 1986 according to the official story, he went into hiding approx 8 years before that. So since 1978 hardly anyone saw him. That is 35 years ago, so the people who knew him are getting smaller in number simply due to natural attrition.
There are not many people around on internet forums who knew Hubbard and regularly post about it. You have the names of the few that do. Stop asking questions you know the answer to.
No, you asked "if there are any critic groups that are populated ..." and the reply "Hubbard is dead. Many people here were born after Hubbard died" is not one that can be dismissed. Do you dismiss that reply anyway?
LOL GB, killing me with same time posting. And beaten me twice so far. Im getting up earlier tomorrow
I am saying that I did not ask for what you said I asked, is that clear?
I got that. I recognize that this groups self identifies as a protest site. Totally got it. This group's activities does include posts and commentary similar to what might be called "critic groups", no?
I have not sad and I am not saying what people are or not.
I have not and am not saying or implying that.
Ok. I don't take the point of view that they or anyone owes me anything whatsoever and I have no expectations or hard feelings towards anyone who posts or does not post in response to anything I write or do not write on the internet.
Got it Gottabrain.
This has nothing to do with what I asked. I do not dismiss it, it is just a different line of conversation. Nothing wrong with it, I am just not talking about people who were born after Hubbard died.
So you must be very rich in comprehension since you are in a position to point out my weakness in that area?
What is your personal definition of a "troll"?
What authority do you have to tell people what to do? Is that you mom?
If your question is simply, "are there critic groups populated by those who have met" LHR, then to properly answer your question, please provide:
1. Your definition of "populated"; and
2. Your definition of "critic groups."
If that is not your Q, please rephrase and present again. Regardless, perhaps, as a gift to us all, you could just get to the fucking point.
[As I typed this response, I realized I have been feeding the troll.]
My level of comprehension is adequate.
I will make my explaination clearer. As you have received the same answer to your questions many times in this thread, it indicates that you may have trouble comprehending what people are saying to you. Hence a comprehension problem. Now you have acknowledged my answer, any more similar questions can only be seen as trolling. A troll is somebody who posts inflammatory material designed to get a reaction out of somebody. But you knew that.
The most important thing you have written in this thread. You have the answer to the question and by saying OK you accept it.
Absolutely no authority. But again, you know that right. And im not yo mamma but I (insert joke here)
a place where regulars post comments daily or every other day or at least weekly or on some reliable consistent basis.
groups where there is visible agreement that almost everything, if not everything, to do with a certain topic, is negative.
Some seems to have mastered the art of the half-ack.
what is "inflammatory material"? Do you call anything that does not agree with you and endorse your bias in just the right way "inflammatory material"?
Just because you might experience a reaction to something does not necessarily mean it was designed specifically for that. I am not trying to get a reaction from you or anyone here. I happen to be obviously unsympathetic to the #1 complaint here, and so what? Why is that significant?
This is your projection. You have know idea what I know or knew. Unless you are a psychic or something like that.
We can disagree about the semantics all day. My only issue with you was that you kept asking the same question after you had received the answer many times. We have cleared up that issue. You now know which people online have personally met Hubbard.
So as far as what is inflammatory, what is a troll, who has what reaction to said troll and which one of us, if any, is psychic - whatever you think is fine with me. The main issue has been resolved.
Giving you the benefit of the doubt that this is some sort of Sociology-related or personal project, allow me to explain a few things.
Anonymous (WWP) has members who personally knew Hubbard. FACT
Those members did not start Anonymous or WWP. They joined later. FACT This is highly unusual, but not unique.
This site was not designed as a critic site of Hubbard, nor is it an activist site about Hubbard. It protests the human rights abuses of the Church of Scientology. Since Hubbard is the founder of this destructive cult, many members here have thoroughly researched the man and find his personal actions and policy to be the source of most of the Cult of Scientology abuses. Exes like myself enjoy posting personal testimonies about what an asshole Hubbard was, and how very differently and inaccurately the Cult of Scientology presents him because that sort of lying and conning pisses us off.
Other areas of WWP protest other human rights abuses.
Our group is referred to as "Anonymous". Members' identities are confidential, as are the lists of members, so you've kind of set yourself up with an impossible task if you're trying to find percentages of who is who or to contact people personally. Some of the links I provided to you of personal testimonies of those who knew Hubbard have (by choice) posted under their own names here. Do your own homework to look them up, please, and to determine if the person is the actual person posting under his/her name. Some are genuine, but I've done enough for you. There are many, many others that have posted anonymously as members here.
Veterans here can pretty much contact any of those individuals, one way or the other, so watch who you offend.
Oh, btw, just noticed that the Church of Scientology has bumped up a bunch of Hubbard bullshit stories on Google. Coincidence? I don't think so.
Trees stand there and look pretty. They do not throw five year olds into chain lockers. They do make great strawmen.
(Yep. That's where this threads going.)
Thanks for the consideration. I am wise enough to know that conversations here can only go one way. I honestly was just fishing for people who knew Hubbard who might be posting currently and that lead to anything I said or reacted to. I hardly know myself or my own parents or anyone really, I mean really, but internet people are so absolutely convinced that they know all there is to know about some person they never met. A convenient, and magical point of view really.
Ciao Gottabrain, word to your momz.
All future "Declineds" from Samki are hereby accepted to the infinite.
Proof you have not read this thread. Or really cared about the information given and been capable of intellectually argueing the point.
The answers have been given. By this time all the people lurking that you don't even see here know you are a lame troll who needs to lurk moar. To give you some background concerning your competion, we used to have some pretty good trolls here. Some of them would sign their names like four or five times a post. Others were witty enough to even become a bit loved in a red-haired stepchild way.
Now lately, the recent under-bridge lurkers seem a bit inexperienced .
I'm rubber and you're glue. Bonne nuit.
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