Discussion in 'News And Current Events' started by iraniam, Nov 17, 2011.
2. Don't know.
3. Yes, let's do make sure not to offend anyone. That would be simply awful.
I don't like the idea of ganging up on Bozuri. There are many wonderful Israelis who don't deserve to be lumped in with the nasty settler element, the extremists (most of whom are American born anyway).
I certainly don't want to fuel what is a tin foily anti-semitic conspiracy theorist view of Israel.
In my view such people are just as twisted as the lobbyists and propagandists that promote extreme Zionist thought.
Yes. No need to take any of this personally. It's just... business.
I don't think there's any lumping going on. This is just a conversation which needs to be held more often: why the apartheid and ill-treatment? The Palestinians aren't Nazis, though successive governments of Israel would have them painted so.
Silence is not a good defense.
I agree this is a conversation that needs to happen.
But in order for it to be conducted with some semblance of rationality, may I propose that nobody uses the term "zionist" and nobody starts blaming Mossad for 9/11.
Yes, there are some retard conspiracy theory folks that believe this.
I don't believe most Israelis are aware of the impending danger that the Dimona reactor presents to Israel and beyond.
If there were a leak and Jordan were partly contaminated, this could lead to WW2.
Fukushima is an object lesson to all nations, including Israel and Iran.
Who can tell Israel what to do?
They are the world's best at lobbying and propaganda - both the USA and Russia do what they are told.
Bribery and aforementioned holocaust guilt play their role, but this must surely now be stopped, it cannot continue.
I would hope that such a situation may be addressed by Anonymous when the Occupy movement starts having a real impact on the geopolitical environment.
Can we Please change the subject here and focus on Iran and it's Human Rights vaiolation?.....Thanks
I'm not insulted. It's my personal opinion of him, based on having watched various interviews with him + his actions. There are plenty left wing Israelis highly critical of the Israeli government that I like and accept, even though I often disagree with their views [I'm more of a liberal centrist]. I just get the sense that the whole Vanunu affair went out of control and the situation controlled him rather than vice-versa.
I'm sure the Vanunu affair did spin out of control, but this chaos was likely engineered by the right-wing.
Look, Tehran insists that it has the right to develop and acquire nuclear technology for peaceful purposes as a signatory to the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty and a member of the International Atomic Energy Agency.
If Israel has not even signed such a treaty yet it has weaponry amounting to 250 nuclear warheads of varying potency, does this not strike you as seriously hypocritical??
Oh really? Please educate me on the dark roots of Zionism. Do they happen to come from the Protocols of Elders of Zion?
And now we can go back to discussing Iran.
This is why talk of "zionism" is fruitless. It tends to bring out the moonbats.
I would like to discuss Iran but in the context of nuclear facilities Dimona is highly relevant, wouldn't you agree?
Of course it's hypocritical. But our world is a hypocritical place. Western powers always make everybody acts as they say and not as they do. Politics are hypocritical. I also think that that Arab world and Iran are hypocritical in their own right. The nit-pick on Israel each time a limited number of Palestians gets killed, but it's perfectly acceptable for Assad to murder over 4000 of his own people. Or for Iran to hang hundreds of people every years for imaginary crimes and adultery.
I realize that more is expected out of Israel because it's a democracy and hence it's under heavier scrutiny. And it's fine. But Iran, by no stretch of imagination is a normative country like any other and hence applying to it exactly the same rules as apply to Denmark for example, simply won't work. Iran has a rogue, deceiptful, oppressive regime that needs to be disposed off. Then they can have nuclear energy for peaceful means.
It's very sweet of you, but trust me - I've been on WWP long enough to handle the WWP crowd. Obviously I'm not a settler or a settlements proponent.
I think Israel has a proven record of not using its nuclear arsenal. It has had the weapons for years and years and never pushed the red button. On top of that, Israel is not the only one in the world who has nuclear weapons. So does France, Russia, England, Pakistan and India.
So yeah, on one hand - if these countries have the nukes, why shouldn't Iran have them? But my answer to that - I'm a pragmatist and not an idealist. Not all the countries are the same or equal. Iran with its wacky regime should not have nuclear weapons. And yes, they always love pointing out how they haven't had a war since the Iran/Iraq war. But that's also not very precise - they finance lots of terrorist groups in the region, they regularly send weapons to Hizballah [which destabilizes Lebanon] and Hamas and they support the murderous regime of Basha el Assad, who just murdered 4000 of his own people and he's only getting started.
There was one event were the Israeli air force had warheads ready to use as a battle tactical strike against the last Egyptian invasion.
The IDF won the battle and they were not used.
A nuclear exchange is far more likely between India and Pakistan.
ITT: People who think Bozuri is OK despite being a Zionist Jewess. She's one of the rare "good" Jews.
No, it is not acceptable. Which is why huge pressure from the US, Turkey and France and other nations is being heaped upon Syria, including sanctions and removal of embassy staff.
I would dearly love to see the same thing happening the next time the IDF decide to kill hundreds of Gazans.
More is expected from Israel because its economy is propped up via grants and loan guarantees by the USA to the tune of $5 billion a year. That's just the USA.
I agree Iran has an unstable extremist regime. It must go. But I see little difference between the rantings of Ahmedinejad (which are often deliberately mistranslated for better use by the massive Jewish lobbying committees in the USA) and similar rantings by Ehud Barak and by the mass murdering pig Ariel Sharon before him.
Fuck off. Go play with the kids in the Thunderdome.
I did not mean to patronize you in any way when I said that.
I think Israel has a track record of using radioactive depleted uranium shells in Gaza. They aren't the only ones.
But effectively, they do use nuclear products in anger, all of which manufactured at Dimona.
I think we can say the biggest rogue influence in the region is that which pumps the most money into repressive regimes. Step forward the USA.
No U. Why don't you re-read this:
There are many wonderful Blacks who don't deserve to be lumped in with the nasty NOI.
There are many wonderful Muslims who don't deserve to be lumped in with the nasty terrorists.
There are many [insert race/nationality here] who don't deserve to be lumped in with the nasty [insert militant/extremist group here].
No U. I'm the Anon that typed that.
Bozuri is one of us. Fuck off with this Zionist she-devil bullshit.
Anonymous is not your friend.
Then you should realize that the remark about Bozuri being one of the "good" Jews was racist.
/r/ mods tidy up this cluster fuck.
99% of the posts in this thread have nothing to do with the OP.
This post is part of the 99%!
Finally one of the Iran threads gets attention, and... well, that's why we can't have nice things.
1. Someone with balls.
2. Someone whom Israel cannot blackmail.
Israel has painted itself into a corner with its atomic weaponry, though it doesn't fully know this yet, or acts as if it doesn't know it. Why does it need a nuclear arsenal it plans to never use? The POINT of having atomic weapons is to NOT have to use them.
Of these, it is the only one who won't admit having them. Why?
You suggest the Iranian leadership are suicidal. This is what Ehud Barak says also. Just sayin'.
Hizb'allah defeated your glorious IDF, says history. The only thing destabilising Lebanon is Israeli machinations. You repeat your lessons well.
Mods /r/ you nuke TT.
No U again. I'm NOT the Anon that typed the bullshit about "good Jews".
I'm the one that typed "There are many wonderful Israelis who don't deserve to be lumped in with the nasty settler element, the extremists (most of whom are American born anyway)."
This is one of the problems that arises with multi Anon posts.
Mods might enlighten us all as to who the racist fuckwad was. They might not.
Been a good debate anyway.
Why do Iranian issues get sidelined? There are plenty of Iraniam threads that get ignored.
I myself can't get beyond the whole Islamic shit, and I can't understand how the basiji get away with living.
I'm certain I would kill as many of those motherfuckers as possible, including the Ayatollah, or die trying if I lived in Iran.
So I guess that counts me out of the issue.
I have no sensible solutions. I have only the base instincts if we're talking about Shia muslims. They're fucking crazy.
Can we talk about the Apartheid Wall yet?
So what's YOUR input?
First of all, it's not precise that Israel won't admit having nuclear weapons. It's true that it has been the policy for a while, but a few years ago, I remember a knesset discussion into Israel's nuclear weapons. Other than that I really don't know why they won't say outright - we have them. Because Israel surely wants the Arab states to know that it has nuclear weapons.
Hizballah defeated our glorifous IDF? Define defeat. The whole conflict was over Hizballah crossing into Israel and kidnapping two Israeli soldiers. Lots of bombings from both sides ensued. After two months of warfare and numerous deaths on both sides [but significantly more on Hizballah's], the soldiers bodies were returned in exchange for Hizballah members. Who won? I'd say nobody.
You think that the only thing that destabilizes Lebanon is Israel?. Need I remind you for how many years Lebanon was under the occupation of the glorious Assad family of Syria [first Hafez and then Bashar]? Unlike the Syrians, my country has zero interests in Lebanon, apart from not having rockets shot into Israel from Lebanon's territory. Hizballah on the other hand needs to have the conflict going, because without a conflict it really doesn't have much else to offer to the population, does it? On top of that, Israel is no longer occupying Southern Lebanon, so now Hizballah is left with provoking an occassional conflict with Israel in order to get popular support of its people. It also serves as the arm of Bashar El Assad in Lebanon.
Not sure what Ehud Barad said about Iran, as I do not like the man, but the regime there is suicidal, I would have to agree with that. It's not sustainable in the long run. They can't even refine their own oil into gasoline. They have a giant young educated, fairly liberal population who doesn't want to live the way they do. The regime of the Ayatollahs is on its last legs, no doubt about that.
Looking at the condition of the 1950's Dimona reactor, an old machine that predates $cientology (!!) and looking at every other nation that has decommissioned all their old 1950's nuke technology back in the 1980's, and looking at the proximity to Dimona to the African earthquake fault line - I'd say it was Israeli secrecy that is suicidal.
And there is the irony. You say - " I really don't know why they won't say outright - we have them. Because Israel surely wants the Arab states to know that it has nuclear weapons."
But until Israel signs the non proliferation treaty, it will never be allowed to upgrade its 60 year old systems.
And of course - all the barrels of radioactive waste will need to be accounted for.
Once the world discovers that Israel has been burying and burning that nasty stuff on the Gaza border or the border with Lebanon, you think anyone will give a damn about letting Israel upgrade?
This is why they want it kept quiet. Too many lawsuits waiting to jump out. Just like Scientology. The cult of Eretz Israel.
Awwww, that is so sweet of you. Aparently people can be good despite being Christ killers. We just occcassionally drink Christian babies' blood. But just on passover. And when we are not too busy controlling the media and producing tearful holocaust movies.
OK, I'm pulling your leg here. I'm not a particularly touchy Jew. I guess being an Israeli makes me significantly less sensitive towards jokes about Jews. And I could make the anti-defamation league shut up, I'd very happy.
Interesting theory. Send me some dox. I really don't know much about the topic.
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