Israeli tanks have moved into Gaza

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by anonisophy, Jul 17, 2014.

  1. RolandRB Member

    Because God told them to do it. And that is YOUR God as well, if you are a good Christian.
  2. No, I didn't.
  3. The Internet Member

    I agree with you that moving millions of people around due to ethnicity is fail. But I have seen this meme a bunch of times now and I’m feeling spammed. So maybe do not feed the spammer?

    Also, Gaza has potential to be a nice place to live. They have a sea side, hotels, hospitals, etc. All they need is peace and better relationships with Egypt and Israel long enough to allow foreign investment and development of their infrastructure. Once people get some money they can move wherever they want and that should help with the density.

    As horrible as Israel might be, the way forward has to be:
    - no aggression coming from Gaza for a long enough period of time to remove the sense of imminent threat within Israel
    - cross border business and gradual mutual trust.

    If people say, “You can’t blame Hamas for bombing Israel” every time Hamas bombs something, moar bombs and no peace.

    If I am wrong, show me where and I will change my mind about this.

    Oh I thought of something someone might say: What if Israel is an asshole that provokes Gaza into bombs? Like those Scientology bullbaiters who try to get protesters to lose their shit?

    Well, there probably are assholes in Israel who will do provocative things. Still, Gaza has to pursue legal remedies or else no progress. Gaza is the weaker player and needs to behave like a weaker player for progress to happen.
  4. The Internet Member

    I thought Israeli youth did two years in the IDF then they were out?
  5. The Internet Member

    But a lot of Arabs decided to become Israeli citizens. The ones who wanted war with Israel wound up as refugees. That is not really an ethnic ghetto situation because the barrier is not against an ethnicity so much as against people who want to destroy Israel.

    Gaza is run by its own democratically elected government. It’s not a province under Israel’s government. It’s not functioning very well as an independent state, however, because all the foreign money coming in seems to be diverted to militarizing the place rather than developing the civic infrastructure. It’s turning into a mega military base with all its tunnels, weapons caches, and rocket launchers. That can’t end well for the people of Gaza and I wish the Earth’s peoples would tell Gaza, “Stop!” But the passion to punish Israel seems to be too much.

    Oh another difference between Gaza and a ghetto: the border with Egypt is hardened by Egypt, not by Israel, due to those crazy Hamas fuckers. The sooner the world stops encouraging them, the better.

    I want the Palestinians to embrace defeat. I want them to give up fighting against Israel with any sort of military effort. But they’ve been somebody else’s personal army for so long they can’t seem to leave the trenches. It’s a mindfuck I wish we could break because defeat is not so bad. Just look at Germany and Japan today.
  6. Disambiguation Global Moderator

    Dox plz
  7. BDS

    You try to put aside the main issue with a non-argument here. Then you start again to blame the violence of Palestinians to be the reason Israel is not able to stop its actions.
    This is wrong.
    Israel could immediately stop all the bad things, of which I listed some several times before. Illegal settling is one of them. Your arguments follow standard Hasbara tech. Boring.

    We don't even have to go into details if Israel was honest in peace negotiations or who started with bombing again. There is no need, because Israel has anyway to stop illegal settlements and leave the occupied territories. Even if Palestinians would vanish or grow expontentionally or God would show it's existence: According to international law, Israel has to retreat. Point.

    Palestinians only want their rights back that were taken from them. Until then, no discussion is necessary. Only boycot and sanctions.
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  8. BDS

    In a national broadcast of my country there was described the fate of a critic of the Gaza massacre who was threatened by people during an interview he gave. I'll try to look his name up if you like, I think is or was a journalist.
    Some weeks ago, I remember a TV scene where a critic was shouted down.
    The Israeli peace movement is active but weak, also because of the war hystery. Mr. Avnery indirectly says that, I vaguely remember to hear this directly from his mouth about 15 years ago. See here for more info on the peace movement.
    I suggest you visit this, esp. at 3:20, to see what this very important person of "Gush shalom" has to say.
  9. amaX Member

    I'm thinking that many of us posting ITT are living on stolen land. Gonna give it back? Didn't think so.

    Are all of you advocating for Israel to return land to the Palestinians this vigilant with other countries that have stolen land? I doubt it.

    ^^^Loving the bolded part. Thank you.

    Almost 21% of the population of Israel are Arab.
    About 1/4 of the population is not Jewish.
    The 1948 Israeli Declaration of Independence calls for Arabs to "participate in the upbuilding of the State on the basis of full and equal citizenship", and for neighboring Arab countries to "establish bonds of cooperation and mutual help...for the advancement of the entire Middle East." Let's just say that the Hamas Charter doesn't really agree with the Israeli Declaration of Independence.

    Who are these people?
    Afu Agbaria
    Hamad Amar
    Taleb Abi Arar
    Mohammed Barakeh
    Masud Ghnaim
    Basel Ghattas*
    Issauri Frej
    Ibrahim Sarsur
    Hana Sweid*
    Ahmad Tibi
    Jamal Zahalka
    Haneen Zoabi

    They're all Arab members of the Israeli legislature--the Knesset. *Ghattas and Sweid are Christians.

    Some interesting info about some of these Arab members of Knesset:

    Afu Agbaria called for Israel leaders to be tried by the International Criminal Court and accused Israel of attacking "it's neighbors and Arab citizens non-stop" for the 62 years it's been in existence. He said this in 2010. He's still a member of Knesset.

    Mohammed Barakah is a left-wing Arab against the occupation of the West Bank and the Gaza strip.

    Masud Ghnaim is a member of the Islamic Movement---which has a hardline anti-Zionist branch.

    Ahmad Tibi is actually the Deputy Speaker of the Knesset. Tibi calls himself an Arab-Palestinian by nationality and Israeli in citizenship.
    He served as a political advisor to Yassar Arafat.
    He is an anti-Zionist who calls for an Israeli withdrawal to the pre-1967 borders, wants a Palestinian state bordering alongside Israel, opposes Israel calling itself a Jewish state because it's self-definition as Jewish to be racist.

    Zoabi is the first Arab female to be elected to the Knesset. She is Sunni Muslim.
    She also says it's racist for Israel to be considered a Jewish state. At her swearing in ceremony she left before the Israeli national anthem was played.
    She has called Netanyahu and other Israeli politicians, "all a bunch of fascists pure and simple."

    It's hard for me to believe that the thuggish, terrible Israelis would let these people be members of their legislature! What the HELL?
  10. The Internet Member

    BDS, I am not understanding why you disagreed with my point to anon8109 that you quoted. Anon8109 was responding to a meme implying the Palestinians should move to another Arab country. He says that is a form of ethnic cleansing. I think that’s a little strong, but I agree with the idea that asking millions of people to move is fail.

    Most of what you wrote seems to be, Israel has done bad things. I am not disputing this point. Still, I think rockets are not justified because no other country on this planet accepts rockets as a legit response to heavy handed policing or real estate disputes. And as I understand, the rockets were for the policing actions due to the 3 boys being kidnapped, not for the real estate issue which was earlier.
  11. Random guy Member

    I see your point but people generally aren't very good at that. Look at our friend Johnny Reb and the civil war stuff. People in the Middle East typically have long memories. As I wrote early in this thread, expect peace accordingly.
  12. The Internet Member

    Yes I understand that embracing defeat is hella difficult. I wish this were not the case. Because climate change is a planetary problem requiring some measure of widespread respect for reason and the rule of law from ordinary retards in every nation. No other way people gonna be able to set aside their differences and act to stop the runaway greenhouse effect that is coming.

    Perhaps there is some other planet in this universe where intelligent life evolved and managed to overcome the tribalism that made complex social life possible. That would be nice because what I am asking of the Palestinians is probably a one in a million long shot.
  13. RolandRB Member

    Don't worry because this Earth of ours will be a peaceful place in less than 20 years with the global caliphate in place and all the jews killed and the Christians converted to Islam.
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  14. BDS

    For the beginning, I just leave this.

    I don't want to sound arrogant, but it seems some people really should read what is known about certain parties in the Knesset. What is known about history of Israel and the area, who lived there, which partition plans existed and who was behind certain plans. If I find the time I try to get at least some links with compact information. It seems too much work to research and read between the lines. For a start, just search for citations of Israeli right wing politicians. Before, make sure you are seated well. As I wrote, there is stuff that would not only be hard to swallow, but in Western countries those people would be kicked out within the next day. At least they would never be elected into power.

    You can't accuse militant Palestinians to not accept the right of Israel to exist without talking about the radical Zionists and their goals from the beginning, about 1897, on. These people misuse judaism for their dirty game. Just as the conquistadores and others misused christianity.
    Of course we can't turn back the wheel of time. Native Americans will not get back their land. But it is a question of how those people are treated, maybe integrated if they like and how compensation can be given.
    This is the only way to make peace, if you don't want an endless guerilla war. The (former) oppressor has to accept the own errors and ask the oppressed what can be done. I expect it from the US and from Cananda. I expect it from China towards Tibet and at every place where people still suffer from oppression. And I expect it from Israel, especially because their brainwash and misiformation campaigns in western media is beyond belief.

    Israel took the land by dirty tricks and aggression. Israel has to make the first step and at least recognize the errors of the past. As long as radical Zionists are in power this will not happen, if there is no pressure from outside by boycot and sanctions.
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  15. RolandRB Member

    ^^ I just need to read the Holy Bible which is the Word of God.

    If God said the Israelites can have the land and kill everybody on it then who am I to question?
  16. Wanna hear what evil psychopaths sound like in their own words?
    Here's a You Tube channel. Be sure to grab a barf bag before you watch any of their videos.
    There's children's programming that is all hate, and recording of so called religious leaders teaching hate. These people are fucked up. All of it is "hate speech".

    Palestinian Media Watch
  17. BDS

    It's especially you and your brainwash that motivates me most. You remind me so intensely of my worthiest lulz cows, the Co$ suckers. I even had the pleasure to talk to one of you IRL. It was so amazing similar to "discussing" with a Ronbot (be it you believe the shit or just take the money), you will be the ideal replacement for me when Co$ is finally gone.
    Thank you! Thank you e.g. Lena Volman aka Svetlana Moyse and all the others.
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  18. Pat Condell.
  19. BDS sounds like a creepy stalker.
  20. The Internet Member

    I have a mortgage on a small plot that I’ve been paying on for a few years (talk about scams: mortgages because principle is still about the same even with tons of payments from me). If the US were to aquire Canada, pretty sure I would not get any land out of that deal. Or if the US were to lose Alaska to Russia, I doubt any of my plot would diminish.

    So how come all the Palestinians are upset about which government is administrating which land? Do they imagine that they, personally, will get some land out of a border shift? My guess is, no. Rich people always take over things like that.

    What we need is Government in a Box --some open source system complete with balance of powers, representation, voting, etc., periodically tweaked and updated like software. Then nobody would give a fuck which gov franchise collected the taxes.
  21. Anonymous Member


    Pat Condell on Israel:

    All anyone needs to know about the Middle East conflict is that the Jews want peace and the Arabs don't, because the Arabs hate Jews for religious reasons and they want them dead.

    Politics, territory - these are just excuses.

    Whenever I make this point it always seems to annoy the right sort of people, so I thought I might as well do it again.

    If you're one of these people, then you'll likely be a supporter of the boycott, divestment and sanctions campaign that has been so comically ineffective because the world depends on Israeli technology, and that's where the money is, not oranges and avocados.

    If you support BDS, will you boycott the chip in your phone or computer, or is it just Israeli fruit and vegetables that you have a moral problem with?

    Maybe you're one of the people who feel entitled to shout down Israeli speakers in universities, or to disrupt concerts and sports events that other people have paid money to enjoy.

    Or perhaps you campaign for the boycott of Israeli academics, to block the free exchange of information and understanding. All this is on the same moral level as book burning, and if you're a part of this movement, you're a part of that.

    Also, the relentless focus solely on Israel that ignores the world's real human rights violators tells us that this is an anti-Semitic movement, and if you're a part of it, you're a part of that, too.

    If Israel was a Christian or a Buddhist country there wouldn't be any BDS campaign, and everyone knows it, just as there isn't any BDS for Tibet, a country invaded and culturally raped by the Chinese, but then the Chinese aren't Jews.

    No BDS for Saudi Arabia treating women like livestock because the Saudis aren't Jews, which is lucky for them because, if they were, they'd have to ban themselves from entering their own country.

    How inconvenient. Crude Islamic Jew hatred has permeated the Middle East conflict from day one, yet its influence is always carefully omitted from all political analysis.

    Any doctor who diagnosed an illness as ineptly and dishonestly would deserve to be struck off and prosecuted.

    Palestinian leaders have had several chances for a two state solution and they have always rejected it because they don't want a two state solution, and they don't care about the suffering of their people.

    They want all Jews out of there, or dead.

    The leader of Hezbollah is on record as saying that he won't be happy until every Jew on earth is dead.

    Once you realize that this is the position then, whatever you think of Israeli security measures, your moral standpoint has to change.

    We know that if the Arabs were to lay down their weapons they could have peace and prosperity for all their people, and the Israelis wouldn't need to build barriers or do anything else the world disapproved of.

    They could simply get on with what they do best, technological innovation, making life better for all of us, including Arabs.

    On the other hand, we know that if the Israelis were to lay down their weapons they would be massacred - men, women and children alike.

    The Arabs are even happy to put their own children in the firing line to attack Jews, they hate them so much. And this hatred comes directly from their religion.

    It isn't politics or territory that causes a mother to celebrate the death of her child.

    Only religion can do that, and one religion in particular, the one that's insisting on the right of return - to the 7th century.

    Just look at the mess they've made in Gaza, which is now a hardcore Islamic hell hole.

    The Israelis used to be in Gaza, but they gave it up for peace. They uprooted thousands of settlers and gave the land to the Arabs for peace.

    And what did they get? They got war, of course.

    Gaza immediately became a launching pad for hundreds of Iranian rockets aimed at Israeli women and children by people hiding behind their own women and children - a double war crime, ignored by the West, like all Arab war crimes.

    That's what the Israelis got when they gave up Gaza, and it's what they'll get if they're ever stupid enough to give up the West Bank.

    Israel needs to exist because there needs to be a Jewish state. Humanity has proven conclusively over many centuries that it cannot be trusted not to persecute Jews.

    Jew hatred seems to be written right into our DNA because it just keeps coming back. Any Jew who thinks the Holocaust could never happen again is a fool.

    There are plenty of people on this earth who would love to see it happen again, and many of them live in the countries around Israel.

    When Arab armies have attacked in the past they have bragged in advance about committing genocide, and they've still been bragging about it as they were getting their sorry arses deservedly kicked again and again.

    People who want to boycott Israel have no idea what it's like to live on a thin strip of land surrounded by people who want to wipe out your entire population, who have repeatedly tried to do so in the past, and failed, and who will continue trying until they succeed, which is likely to happen, roughly, never, while we in the West keep paying for it.

    What would you do if you were the Israeli prime minister? How would you deal with people who want you and your entire population dead?

    I know what I would do, and I wouldn't give a damn about world opinion. As for UN resolutions, I would use them to light my cigars.

    I don't actually smoke cigars, but I would take it up for that reason, I think it's just so important, because this is a war of crude religious hatred by Muslim Arabs against Jews, and the Jews have to win every time.

    The Arabs only have to win once for the world to see another Holocaust, and to stand by once again watching it happen.

    That's why I support Israel, and that's why, if you have an ounce of humanity, you, too, should support Israel, whatever your political persuasion.
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  22. amaX Member

    ^This is why. This is the truth no matter how you try to spin it against Israel.
    • Like Like x 3
  23. The Internet Member

    I know what you mean about arguing with Ronbots. They always say:

    1. I am angry, real angry!
    2. My outrage implies I own the moral high ground, so there!
    3. A big category of people are guilty of horrible crimes.
    4. Do not make me precisely define who is in or out of this category as I will ignore you.
    5. You are glib.
    6. You do not know the history of this category of people; I do.
    7. Go read a book.
    8. You are a bad person and you should feel bad.
  24. Random guy Member

    The Middle East conflict is possibly the most complex political conflict there is. Imagine sitting down a a card-came like poker (reasonably complex), and the slick dealer tells you "all you need to know is ...". That's usually a sign you're about to be ripped off.

    Critical thinking is a useful skill.
  25. RolandRB Member

    Also think that sand monkeys might be inherently evil and made evil much more so by an evil religion that preaches genocide.
    • Like Like x 1
  26. meep meep Member

  27. Anonymous Member

    Richard Behar, the Journalist who took on Scientology for TIME Magazine in 1991, has penned a lengthy but excellent article for Forbes Magazine:

    The Media Intifada: Bad Math, Ugly Truths About New York Times In Israel-Hamas War

    It’s a “media intifada,” notes Gary Weiss, an old colleague and one of the world’s top business investigative reporters. He is referring of course to the ongoing war in Gaza, where journalists working for American news outlets have, he says, “become part of the Hamas war machine.”

    As more than a month has passed since Israel began its Operation Protective Edge in Gaza, it’s high time to dig through the carnage that many of my colleagues from major U.S. media outlets are leaving behind—especially the New York Times.

    On August 11th, the normally Israel-averse Foreign Press Association in Israel conceded what those closely following the war coverage already knew: That Hamas has been intimidating foreign reporters. In a harsh statement, it condemned the terrorist group for “the blatant, incessant, forceful and unorthodox methods employed by the Hamas authorities and their representatives against visiting international journalists in Gaza over the past month.”

    This is hardly surprising, as who can expect a terrorist group to treat reporters nicely—except perhaps many reporters themselves? But what is surprising is that New York Times’ Jerusalem bureau chief Jodi Rudoren undermined her own newspaper—quickly denouncing the FPA’s statement. She said in a tweet that she wasn’t aware of any such harassed reporters, even though she concedes she spent only one week in Gaza herself during the height of the conflict. In an email to the FPA, she said that the FPA’s statement could be “dangerous” to the “credibility” of the foreign press who are covering the conflict. “Every reporter I’ve met who was in Gaza during war says this Israeli/now FPA narrative of Hamas harassment is nonsense,” she tweeted. [Boldface type hers.]

    More at the link:
    • Like Like x 1
  28. amaX Member

    Hamas celebrates as Palestinians suffer: Moran

    After today's cease-fire in Gaza, a spokesman for Hamas declared victory and its fighters celebrated by firing their rifles into the air.

    It's difficult to imagine a more chilling reminder of the group's brutality, and its willingness to watch its own people suffer and die for no rational reason.

    Hamas started this by kidnapping and killing three Jewish teens on the West Bank, and then firing rockets indiscriminately into civilian neighborhoods of Israel. Hamas placed its launchers in densely populated neighborhoods, knowing that the inevitable Israeli response would cause mass civilian casualties.

    It worked as planned. More than 2,100 Palestinians died, most of them civilians. And the crushing poverty that Palestinians suffer will be deeper now, thanks to the scale of the destruction.

    Link to article:
    • Like Like x 2
  29. RolandRB Member

    They should have fired rockets into the air.
  30. RolandRB Member

    I have come over to the other side for the duration of the weekend. There are two sides to every story. Maybe it would be a very good thing to have a One World government - or should I say Caliphate. If that became established then we would have world peace and the Israeli problem would be resolved.

    Oh and BTW - The Quran is written in Arabic or some other sand monkey scrawl and we are led to understand that Arabic as written has a huge variety of meanings that us Westerners can not fathom with our thinking dictated by out own limited language so when they say that rocks and trees call out to Musilms that there is a Jew hiding behind them so come and kill them then I guess it is not in the sense that we with our limited literal-meaning language think is being said.

    PEACE - it will all work out well. ISIS is making grounds - soon there will be a war with Turkey - ISIS will take over the Middle East and turn their attentions to the Israeli problem.
  31. amaX Member

    ISIS has proven that they don't care about kissing media ass. I doubt Israel will be the big meanie for protecting themselves from the newest fundy Muslim terrorist group when ISIS comes beating on their door.
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  32. RolandRB Member

    I wrote to the Charity Commission for England & Wales regarding madrassas in that authority region being given charitable status and this is what I got in reply:

    From: FC Do Not Reply (
    Sent: 29 August 2014 14:52:06

    Be careful! This sender has failed our fraud detection checks.

    Roland Rashleigh-Berry 28 August

    Dear Mr Rashleigh-Berry

    Madrassa Charities

    Thank you for your e-mail. I am sorry to read of your concerns.

    However in the absence of any specific evidence that national security is at risk or that terrorism is present in a particular charity, the Commission cannot become involved. It would be unfair to act on unsubstantiated allegations or opinions which could disrupt a charity’s work and have a detrimental effect on its users and beneficiaries.

    Reports in the news that some Isis fighters in Iraq are from England do not constitute substantive evidence of what you allege is taking place within these charities.

    It is important to emphasise that although the Commission’s functions include encouraging and facilitating the better administration of charities, and taking remedial action to tackle misconduct or mismanagement charity trustees are legally responsible for all aspects of the management and administration of their charity.

    This responsibility extends to ensuring that the name of the charity is not brought into disrepute by the actions of representatives employed to act on behalf of the charity in any capacity. Charity trustees are the managers of their charity and they are ultimately responsible.

    If you do have substantive evidence to support your allegations you should bring this to the attention of the police anti-terrorism unit:

    Thank you for bringing these matters to our attention. I hope that I have explained why, on the basis of the information you have provided, the Charity Commission is unable to take any action.

    Very often the quickest way to answer your enquiries will be to look on our website, especially theFrequently Asked Questions covering the main issues that we are being asked about. You will also find the latest news, together with our publications and guidance including our new Trustee Handbook which contains essential information for new trustees. You can even sign up for email updates.

    Kind regards
    • Like Like x 2
  33. RolandRB Member

    ^^ I just thought that I would leave as a note to others who might want to take it up that charitable status depends on public benefit being present, according now to England and Wales law, and there is no way that Madrassas can be considered of public benefit. Just how is abusing kids and making them rote learn evil under threat be "public benefit" to themselves or the British public. Same goes for schools like Eton College that are the foundation of Britain's divided society. Schools like that are registered charities as well and protected by the "Charity" Commission. They seem to me to be a bunch of ex-public school lackeys who are there to help the ruling class maintain control over the population and to get them votes from Muslims while running the country. This is not my fight, though. I am just stating an opinion to others who might like to take this up.
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  34. meep meep Member

  35. cuedude Member

    hi meep meep did you tell my mom I get stoned I think she stole my stash
  36. meep meep Member

    She told me it was righteous
  37. cuedude Member

    Beruit used to be an international destination look at Lebanon now . war war war all they do is fight .if not isreal it would be amongst themselves.muslims kill muslims because they are the wrong kind of muslim. they are all arabs just the wrong kind of arab .they still fight tribal warfare. war is embedded in their one over there is blameless .you think our government and charities are corrupt they make us look like saints. if you think isreal wants peace I got some prime real estate in florida for sale. it's never going to stop it's only a matter of time until an extremist group gets a nuke to use on isreal and of course isreal is just itching at the chance to use one on Iraq iran Syria Jordan eygpt don't matter as long as they are muslem .Dubai kuiat Saudi Arabia all have enough money to take care of everyone in the middle east.i wish the u.s. would just get the hell out of there because a thousand years from now it's going to be the same
    • Like Like x 1
  38. cuedude Member

    darn gotta find a new hiding spot at least she changed the bong water
  39. So if you have never been to Israel, what makes you so blind and bloodthirsty, AMAx ?

    sirius question.

    Can you say you support Netenyahu now? After these past weeks?

    Do you support Israel, or just the image of Israel?

    I would like to think you are not full of shit.
    You are indeed brave in the face of the insignificant face of a dying cult of 1950's fad. I mean that.
    You are a person with convictions to admire, with the "chutzpah" to back it up.
    I would go so far as to say less than 20% of any chanology freaks have the brass balls AMAx has.

    But I really have a problem with people here that I admire, suddenly supporting the genocidal and cult-like tactics of the Israeli Defence Force, as commanded by Mr Netenyahu.

    This doesn't make sense to me.

    AMAx I'm sure you can dismiss this post as you did before, and refuse to engage.

    I'm not a spy. Nor have I ever spent a single dime on LRH crap. I was never in.

    And I do not mean to put you on any spotlight here. It's your call to refuse to engage with this post.

    But I guess I need to know how you are cool with the shelling of Gaza, yet protesting the CoS.

    I see the same enemy in both. And so I am interested in your opinions, and those of anybody else.

    Which is the cult? Hamas? ISIL? IDF?

    Speak truths and help me understand.

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