Just how deep does the rabbit hole go?

Discussion in 'GoldBase' started by anonasdf, Apr 28, 2008.

  1. anonasdf Member

    Just how deep does the rabbit hole go?

    I've read all kinds of bulls--t stories by ex staffers of Scientology. Scientology is like a fractal WTF - the deeper you dig, the more you find bullshit of the same basic feel, but stranger and weirder somehow.

    You hear the same stories of "out ethics", RPF, aliens/Xenu, sleep deprivation, the end of the universe, etc. It's like the same reality distortion field, only getting stronger and stronger as you get closer and closer to the middle. (Gold, Hubbard, and most of all, DM)

    Anon, I have to say, today, I've just read about what life is really like at the very, very bottom of the rabbit hole. It's actually hard to cope with. It's unbelievably sick. And because it has the same exact "Scientology" feel I've seen over and over and over, I have to believe it's probably completely for real.

    It's the story of "SP Hall". You can read it here, in all its gut-wrenching, reality distorting, stomach clenching glory. I'll warn you. It's not for the faint of heart. I feel sick to my stomach having just read it.

    Operation Clambake Message Board :: View topic - MUSICAL CHAIRS - INT BASE STYLE - PART 2

    This is why.

    See you May 10th. (I'm going to need some serious fucking caek!)
  2. transientox Member

    Re: Just how deep does the rabbit hole go?

    Kinda reminds me of the "games" drill instructors played when I was in boot camp.

    The Sea Org strikes me as being on the order of 100 times worse than any of the US military branches in the bullshit department. And that's saying something. At least in the US military there are checks and balances, public accountability, etc., to prevent the bullshit from running a-muck. Knowing the kind of hatred and loathing I've expressed as a reaction to being in the military, the fact of the Sea Org just fills me with a cold fury.

    This cult needs to be killed. With fire.
  3. anonhuff Member

    Re: Just how deep does the rabbit hole go?

    deep hole is deep
  4. Re: Just how deep does the rabbit hole go?

    sick. read that and part 2. hope those people get out of there and blow!

    also hope once they get out they speak their stories
  5. Re: Just how deep does the rabbit hole go?

    I'm beginning to think the rabbit's digging the hole ahead of us. The deeper we want to go, the further down it'll take us.
  6. Re: Just how deep does the rabbit hole go?

    exactly scientology and DM himself are all just one huge footbullet
  7. BTs2Free Member

    Re: Just how deep does the rabbit hole go?

    You say BS stories, but to me, these were everyday happenings.

    For years now I've been talking and writing about Sea Org prison camps, not only because I personally assigned people to the RPF and holding areas, but I also was held a prisoner for a year and a half at the Gold Base because I wanted nothing more to do with it and wanted to leave.

    During that year and a half, I thought through so many scenarios of how I would jump the barbed wire fences without triggering the motion detectors. What tree I could climb up and which limb I could hang off and drop from without hurting myself too bad in order to get away. Which route I would take to get to safety with the measily amount of funds I had to get anywhere at all. And so on...

    From the very first protest I was screaming about the RPF and SO prison camps and various Anon asked me if I was for real.

    I'm so glad that this topic is finally on the table. This is FALSE IMPRISONMENT folks and it is real.

    You say pics or GTFO, well, Google is your friend. I don't have to do the homework for you. Wherever there is an SO instalation around the globe, you have an RPF.

    Just take a look at the documents leaked on wikileaks of the RPF issued by Hubbard himself.

    Google BFG, BTs2Free, Little Vicotor Bear or Chuck Beatty. See where that leads you.

    For years I've been picking away at how to expose this horror. I thank God for the arrival of Anonymous because for years this has been an uphill battle with no end in sight. Now there's real hope, thanks to you who are willing to research and dig the facts up that are ALREADY THERE.

    Listen to Marc Headley's interview on Glosslip. I've known Marc since we were kids. We grew up in Scientology together and worked at the Gold Base together for over a decade.

    There are more of us coming out, more of us will speak, and this rabbit hole you speak of will only get deeper by the day.

    The real question is, why has this been allowed to continue for so long? Well, it just shouldn't be allowed.

    Tonight, like many nights I've been having the same old nightmare of still being there and trying to escape and wondering if my being out and free was really the dream. It's nice to be able to wake up and know you're there.

    Thank you for what you've done Anonymous, all that you are doing, and all that you will do. You are really making it happen.

    John Peeler
  8. Re: Just how deep does the rabbit hole go?

    BTs2Free, I honestly sympathise with your frustration, although I can't claim to understand it truly. I doubt anyone who hasn't been there really can. I want to start this off by saying I really. truly believe you and pretty much have for over a month.

    This in and of itself is extraordinary, because the RPF and it's evil cousin, the RPF's RPF, is simply unbelievable to anyone who doesn't follow the trail of evidence.

    While there can be no doubt the RPF is quite real, the simple fact is is that any one account of it comes off as an exaggeration of the highest caliber. Or perhaps a holocaust survival story ripoff. What makes it worse is that there are two of these things, in the USA. People don't want to believe in GITMO, which is by far a more pleasant situation to be in. That the US Government would tolerate the RPF within it's own borders seems simply unimaginable to most people.

    I read, and kept reading, because I was curious. What was the angle here? What were these people trying to prove? What finally convinced me was when I had read the fifth or sixth RPF account. That was when it hit me. The bland, ruthless efficency. Little details differ, of course, but the whole thing, taken together, was too internally consistent, and I finally understood the purpose of it. The RPF, despite outward appearances, has little to do with punishment. Which isn't to say it's a reward either. It's just another part of the process, another step on the bridge. The RPF is nothing more than another part of the overall brainwashing process, a last-ditch effort at indoctrination.
  9. Sanjuricus Member

    Re: Just how deep does the rabbit hole go?


    I read that story mouth agape in disbelief. I've been studying CoS for a little under 2 years and the fact that I'm still surprised by the depths DM will sink to is....well....surprising!!!!
  10. Ten Tigers Member

    Re: Just how deep does the rabbit hole go?

    15-20 hour workdays of hard manual labor, isolation, being cut off from the group, being made to feel inferior, wrong, "out-ethics," or sub-human, plus inadequate nutrition, inadequate sleep, inadequate access to proper hygiene, the uniforms, worrying that your work-mate is going to rat on you so that there is a climate of distrust.... You may think I'm speaking of the RPF. I'm not. At least, not totally. The things described above, are precisely the conditions that were described in Jonestown, Guyana, and their version of the RPF.
  11. MsCabbage Member

    Re: Just how deep does the rabbit hole go?

    sick, twisted, depraved sicko. This made me literally sick, and further reinforced why I want this cult completely destroyed.
  12. SamuelAdams Member

    Re: Just how deep does the rabbit hole go?

    BTs2Free - I believe you. There is too much documentation & too many similar stories from different people for this not to be real.

    The question is how do we get the government to act on this?

    I think part of the goverment's issue is they don't want to barge in there & be told by everyone in RPF, that they are quite happy there & don't want to leave (since the poor saps are so brain-buggered). Other issues we don't know for a fact is who is exactly trapped in there. We have a good idea of names, but we don't know for sure. We also don't know if they have moved or will hide the people. The government doesn't want to barge in & walk out with their dick in one hand & the other one empty. The government knows Goldbase is armed to the hilt and they are ready to go down firing.

    The government didn't take action on the FLDS group until they got, what they believed, was an actual call from a victim describing clear, eminent going abuse. They've known all along that they were marrying off under-aged girls into forced polygamous marriages & there was plenty of past history to suggest this was still going on.

    The government isn't going to go in unless they know they are coming out with proof in the pudding.

    Having multiple people who can attest to their treatment in the past, is an important step.

    Any Feds or CIAs who might be monitoring these boards want to help us out on this one? I mean come-on. A fricken gulag on US soil!?!? And we just sit on this?!?!?

    Maybe we should hit up Boris, our resident Ex-CIA expert to see if he has any recommendations on how to deal with this.

    BTW, the call about the brutalized FLDS girl turned out to be a call from an impostor. The women who did that has been arrested. I do not recommend we feed the CIA or FBI any false information for any reason. I know it's bad. But they won't trust us or you if people start doing that. Just look at how pathetic the credibility of Scientology is. Hardly anyone takes them seriously anymore.
  13. DeathHamster Member

    Re: Just how deep does the rabbit hole go?

    The RPF dorms in LA. That top bunk up against the lights would suck:
    (The Sysco box is interesting. The same company regularly delivers food to the Toronto org, which isn't zoned for people living in the building.)

    According to some accounts, they've used parking garages for dorms:
    A compilation of testimonies/affidavits about the RPF:
    Nefertiti part two
    Order establishing the RPF:
    Rehabilitation Project Force Flag Order 3434RB - Wikileaks
    Scans of the full document:
    Under Personal Restrictions and Penalties, I notice that it says that the mess (eating area) is in a special section on the 2nd floor of the garage, and they have the "right" to eat normal meals, provided that no crew member [non-RPF] is in any way deprived thereby, and since they eat after everyone else, they get what's left.

    It's been known for some time that the inner organization was brutal and demeaning at the bottom, but according the Musical Chairs account, that goes right to the top.
  14. anon1957 Member

    Re: Just how deep does the rabbit hole go?

    Notice that you can't even sit up on those bunks. Even a "real" prison or an army barracks provide more headroom for inmates. No personal space/time = no personal sense of self or rights.
  15. karmanon Member

    Re: Just how deep does the rabbit hole go?


    I think David Miscarriage needs to be tried by an international court for crimes against humanity, because that is so sick and demented it makes me want to vomit out of my eyes after reading that.
  16. TheGeth Member

    Re: Just how deep does the rabbit hole go?

    It sure looks that way. I was going to say that we need to put more pressure on DM with issues like this that relate to him directly and draw more attention to him personally, but then he doesn't even care what his underlings think of him, so why would he care what the public thinks as long as the money's rolling in. Still, it would be good to get info like this out into the public eye. It really reinforces the image of DM being a (textbook) cult leader.
  17. MarcabEmpress Member

    Re: Just how deep does the rabbit hole go?

    Addresses please of any Se Org "dorms", especially the one shown in above photos. Every bit of info helps.
  18. DeathHamster Member

    Re: Just how deep does the rabbit hole go?

    That photo is via Chuck Beatty. (Clambake or the Ex-Scieno board if he's not here.) It's at the LA PAC BASE complex of "Big Blue" and other buildings. Google Maps

    These are the days of lasers in the jungle,
    Lasers in the jungle somewhere,
    Staccato signals of constant information,
    A loose affiliation of millionaires
    And billionaires and baby,
    These are the days of miracle and wonder,
    This is the long distance call,
  19. Bulle Member

    Re: Just how deep does the rabbit hole go?

    Read it a while ago, and then promptly went and beat up a punchball.

    Honestly, I don't think it can get worse than this. I think we hit the bottom of the rabbit hole, and now we just have to deal with the space we have.
    When more people come out it will probably be *broader* but not deeper.
  20. Re: Just how deep does the rabbit hole go?

    Seems to me that this brings up issues of zoning (is residential use of the building allowed) and building & health code (can this many people legally live in the building at one time).
  21. AnonNaEireann Member

    Re: Just how deep does the rabbit hole go?

    I would imagine it's similar to life at the back of one's arse.
    With less pay and more work, of course.
  22. Re: Just how deep does the rabbit hole go?

    I personally was never in the SeaOrg nor Scientology, so I have no first-hand evidence about these accusations. However, I have read statements from many ex-scientologists now who seem to all tell the same story and corroborate each other's statements. Although it's possible they are all lying, it seems this would be unlikely. Therefore, I believe these statements to be true.

    Now, what can we do from a legal perspective? Obviously, a criminal complaint must be filed by the people who actually witnessed these events. Has there been any organized effort by anyone to contact the CA Attorney General and request an investigation? Surely there are enough people that can swear out a criminal complaint and start some official investigation into this?

    Although it's important that more ex-members speak out about their experiences and what they have witnessed, isn't it just as important, if not more so, to actually DO something with this information?
  23. noitulover Member

  24. Re: Just how deep does the rabbit hole go?

    I've seen the entire deposition. Very interesting stuff. But the problem with Steve is that he is obviously mentally ill. That, combined with all the crazy Scientology mythology makes for an entertaining video, but a less than reliable witness. Any attorney would be able to destroy his credibility as a witness.
  25. Ten Tigers Member

    Re: Just how deep does the rabbit hole go?

    My daughter used to have a video, "Pooh Gets Stuck In Rabbit's Hole."

    I snarfed coffee out of my nose, the day the double-meaning of that became apparent to me.
  26. Re: Just how deep does the rabbit hole go?

    Scientology: It's Worse Than You Think

    As near as I can tell, this is always true. No matter what you know about, there is always another unimagined horror waiting to be revealed.
  27. Re: Just how deep does the rabbit hole go?

    The RPF is one of the worst things possible for humanity. :/ Forced incarceration and slavery in the name of religion. I just makes me sick. The more you know about this cult, the worse it gets.
  28. timthephoto Member

    Re: Just how deep does the rabbit hole go?

    If just a single UK prison did half the shit going on in those sick, twisted places - there would be a judicial inquiry and big payouts for any prisoners mis-treated.

    makes you want to drive a tank into gold and barge thru the wall "come on guys"...
    only thing is they might not dare get in. (sick)

    surely something has to give soon?
  29. Dubber Member

    Re: Just how deep does the rabbit hole go?

    This is no doubt why people who complete the program come out with a heavy case of Stockholm syndrome, talking about how merciful the Sea Org is to keep them around despite the horrible things they've done.

    The first time I read about musical chairs a few years ago I thought, "Despite everything I know about Scientology, this has to be some kind of disinfo job. It doesn't even make sense from a Scientology perspective." Then sometime around February or March, I watched the "Inside Scientology" program that interviewed Stacy Brooks. She talked DM degrading the staff and thinking that it's funny. That made it click. DM doesn't care whether his methods produce results. He's just playing with the management like toys.

  30. Shellback Member

    Re: Just how deep does the rabbit hole go?

    No; RPF is not the worst thing. Most people in the RPF are there voluntarily as bizarre as that may sound. They can walk out any time they want, the cult carefully builds up mind-walls to prevent such an occurrence. It is coursion but it's being done to adults, many who allow it to happen.

    What gets my goat is they apparently do this to kids too! Kids are just little grown-up thetans to Scientology and have no special status like in the wog world. Kids are reportedly pushed into signing those bloody lifetime contracts and abused in kid prison camps just like the RPF. Then, when the kids grow up , not having any idea about the outside world they perpetuate the abuse on others. Abusive people pass the abuse on to the next generation and some of the children growing up in Scientology are the *third* generation.

    Then there are the elderly Sea Org people, google "End OF Cycle."
    The rabbit hole goes deep, deeper than people can imagine.
  31. Spork Member

    Re: Just how deep does the rabbit hole go?

    There is something worse than the RPF, namely the RPF's RPF ...

    On the vexed question of the "voluntariness" of the RPF. If anyone is "coerced" to join the RPF then they haven't voluntarily "allowed it to happen"; they have been forced (definitional of "coercion"!).

    I suspect that people on the RPF are no longer themselves in a position to judge competently whether they're there voluntarily or not. If you ask them they may say, "Oh yes we want to be here". But to the outside observer it's plain that this can't be so. (Just look at their living conditions.) The RPFers aren't lying; they're massively deceived about their own attitudes and mental states including that of the voluntariness of actions.

    The self-deception, of course, is systematically instigated by the various doctrines of Scientology.
  32. Ironhead Member

    Re: Just how deep does the rabbit hole go?

    the shit would hit the fan in canada as well. Canuck Feds don't take kindly to those kinds of conditions .

    I proposed to some of my Canadian Anon Brethren awhile ago, to find the worst orgs in canada (as per BFG's account), this to me meant RPF camps as well.

    two big problems

    1. where do you start to look? Canada is huge, and there's hella space between towns, you can put just about anything you want in the country, from compounds to grow op's they can operate for years unnoticed.
    2. how do you start to look without the scilons knowing about it? and then moving the camp...or fair gaming you to death.

    it would be the find of the century to get pics, so we know it happened.
  33. Anonabliss Member

    Re: Just how deep does the rabbit hole go?

    THAT is Fishman? Holy Jesus, I can't believe it. I've seen those you tubes, I thought that guy was way gone. Well, if he can wake up, there's hope.
  34. AnonOutreach Member

    Re: Just how deep does the rabbit hole go?

    John, I've known about this for 15 years at least. Until Anonymous came along I didn't see any effective means of combating it.

    MANY in social services knew it
    was happening because they protected defectors [women & children] KNEW. Many have a good idea how deep the rabbit hole goes because some clients have "disappeared" but nobody can prove anything.

    Thank you for speaking up, even when nobody listened. *hug*

    I'm so sorry this happened to you.

    Listen up a bit folks:

    RPF is *not* voluntary. RPF'ers are convinced by CoS they are there "voluntarily" so that DM and his henchman do not get arrested. They cannot just "walk out the door", contrary to the bullshit that is spewed around.

    It's akin to a battered woman who won't leave because her hubby will hurt the children or stalk her until the end of time--the devil you can see is easier to deal with than the devil you can't see. Then hubby convinces her she stays because she loves him.

    If they could just leave--why are there armed guards and cameras everywhere?

    What would happen if they leave?

    Their families could be RPF'ed, disconnected, made to suffer. RPF defectors will be stalked, harassed and chased down.

    Knowing this, could you leave behind your mother, your sister, your little brother, your spouse? Worrying every day what will be done to them now that I'm gone? Knowing no one will even TELL you what happened?

    That's not "freedom" it's another, frightening cage. There might be bodies buried under the RPF and if there isn't--there's certainly enough "questionable deaths" attributed to the RPF facilities to scare one into staying.

    When RPF'ed people sound nuts it is often because they are suffering severe psychological injuries. That doesn't mean they're fabricating or distorting their experience.

    Don't blame the victims of RPF--they didn't choose to be violated, they're just adapting to the violations. Hold accountable those that violate the rights of others. Hold accountable LRH, DM and senior staff that perpetrate the abuses with tacit consent of government that knows of these things and DOES NOTHING to stop the abuse of these citizens.

    Time for me to STFU and get off the soapbox.

    Anyone who slips out that door has the courage of a dozen lions.
  35. amaX Member

    Re: Just how deep does the rabbit hole go?

    i just posted this info in a new thread in activism, but it also pertains to this thread, too.
    as some of you may know, in late february/early march, we gathered up all the information that we had on the enslaved thirdworld teens here at flag in clearwater and forwarded it to amnesty international southern division in atlanta. they reviewed everything and found it credible enough for further investigaton. they forwarded all the infomation to their national office in nyc.

    i called the southern division today for an update and was told that the national office is still reviewing our information. they do an indepth investigation before they decide on what their actions will be. yes, this is frustrating because we would like for something to de done NOW, but they are the only organization that will listen to us.

    i told the woman at AI that the teens were now working at the ft. harrison since the oak cove project is finished. she asked that i email her with that updated information and they will pass that along to the national office.




  36. Re: Just how deep does the rabbit hole go?

    And this is where loving mothers like Anne Archer lets her son go to with out a moments thought or regret.
  37. Ten Tigers Member

    Re: Just how deep does the rabbit hole go?

    This is AWESOME!!!! Thank you so much, and thank you to Amnesty International. I know they are likely to move with glacial slowness on this, but they ARE moving. :hooray::flowers:
  38. Dubber Member

    Re: Just how deep does the rabbit hole go?

    PR bullshit. Stacy Brooks, Gerry Armstrong, Dennis Ehrlich, and Hana Whitfield have all said that when they were placed in the RPF, it was by force and they were held against their will. Even Mike Rinder, talking about the RPF, admitted that being locked up and shackled is part of the program.

    As is so often the case, the church wants to have it both ways. They claim that RPF inmates would stay there if they weren't locked up, and then lock them up anyway for "religious reasons."
  39. ANON E MOOSE Member

    Re: Just how deep does the rabbit hole go?

    listen, the people best suited to say what the rpf is , is the people who were on it.

    I had the displeasure of pulling my brain through a massive review of the rpf by some religious watchdog a while back that was full of glowing praise. They conducted the review with the churches permission (READ STAGED EVENT), and thats what worries me about the speed of action with AA. OSA is potentially reading this shit and taking counter measures so that if AA call, they get the BULLSHIT tour.
  40. Dubber Member

    Re: Just how deep does the rabbit hole go?

    Not to derail, but the case for Fishman having any chronic psychiatric disorder is weak. It's largely based on distortions of his medical history and misunderstandings of Scientology doctrine. He saw psychologists, not psychiatrists, before he went into Scientology. He joined up when he was about 22, he was incredibly naive, and the church took him for a ride. Since then he's shown some problems dealing with other people, as I suppose many people would after being manipulated to that extent by those they trusted.

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