Kansas City., 29 October 2011: Conversation with Org Manager

Discussion in 'Follow Up' started by over9000OT, Oct 29, 2011.

  1. over9000OT Member

    It started with a smile and a wave.

    I almost don't even know how to go about this...

    We did a little bit of an atypical raid thanks to the STLfag, Thetanbait, being in town. The raid itself went pretty well. The police showed up but were there for something completely unrelated to us. Lots of horn love, lots of thumbs up... entirely too many people yelling something about OCCUPY! blech Cheerios made an appearance, as did a sharply dressed woman with zero confront.

    Anyway, all of that is secondary. We had two fairly long conversations with Maggie Kittinger. I am dropping this here as there might be some value in hearing how the director of an org actually thinks.

    She was in the foyer arranging some of their propaganda. I waved at her and then she smiled and waved back. We were all remarking about how awesome it was to see a Scientologist smile. Then she came outside... and over to us.

    Before I launch into the narrative, here are things that I specifically remember:
    • Maggie said she was in her 50s (52, I think, don't quote me)
    • Maggie said that she was a Clear
    • Maggie said that she was in charge of the Org
    • Maggie stated that there were millions of Scientologists
    • Maggie stated that the local org had 300-400 parishioners
    • Maggie stated that the org had grown by 300-400 parishioners since moving
    The conversation was amazing. I need to go back and watch the video to remember specifics. But, the conversation was interesting, to say the least. Overall, she pretty much deflected, redirected and ignored quantitative arguments, logical arguments and direct questions asking for refutations. However, we learned to ask things in a way that she would/could answer them. Instead of asking "What happened to Lisa McPherson" you would ask "How would you feel about a religious organization that illegally imprisoned a sick woman...", you get the picture. She was very concerned that we would edit our videos.

    I think we hit all the standard arguments. Tax exempt status. Slappy's abuses. Cultish tendencies. Disconnection. Fair game. Bullbaiting. Bogus police reports. Why isn't your Idle Org done? Human trafficking. Forced Abortions. Her responses to all of that were pretty standard ignoretech.

    She was interested in why we were out there. She asked each of us why we specifically protested. We related our individual reasons. She listened to/watched a few seconds of the TC video that started Chanology. When she asked me to back up relevant facts, I showed her citations on my phone. I asked her about LRH's racism and showed her a quote from one of the 1950's lectures. She quoted the date and name of the lecture back and assured us that she'd check it out. She gave me a copy of "Scientology, An Overview". Then she said that she had to work and bailed.

    Having achieved simultaneous O-faces, we got ready to bail. Then Maggie came back. She said that she wants me to watch "The Story of Human Rights" and "The Marketing of Madness, Are We All Insane?" and gave me copies of both. I agreed to watch everything she gave us. Then we asked if she'd read Blown For Good if we got her a copy. At first she said that she would probably not. When we pointed out that we were going to watch her DVDs and that she was being hypocritical she agreed and at least said that she'd take a look.

    I asked her why the Church would need to lie about so many things if they were so great. I told her about a Scilon website that claimed there was an L Ron Hubbard Month in Kansas City, KS. She said that she had never heard that and did not believe it to be true. I showed her the Scilon website stating it and told her that she could just google "L Ron Hubbard Kansas City" to find it. I made a deal with her; if she would have that taken off of the Scientology website, I would facefag myself and have coffee with her. notworriedaboutthathappening.jpg

    She agreed to check numerous resources that we told her about. She had nothing to write them down so I am going to sock up and write her an email with relevant dox and sauce.

    She toed the line pretty close except that she was willing to look at Scientology related things we looked up on our phones, took one of our flyers and was reasonable on a number of points.

    And, I just got off the phone and confirmed that Soulless and Thetanbait are going to post their full videos. Maggie was concerned about her privacy but I want her to see that we have nothing to hide and are more than happy to post the whole video. Me fucking up and all... I will admit now that I stepped on my crank a few times... it's easy to get excited when you talk to the head of an Org, after all. Maybe the mistakes that I made will help someone else have a little better confront when they chat up a Scientologist.

    I know I'm all over the place in the telling here. I'm probably a little too hyper still. It's probably best to wait for the actual videos to get posted but that will take a while. Just know that there was some tasty win in the City of Fountains today.

    Here's Maggie cleaning up their "reading materials":

    Here's Maggie coming to see us:
    • Like Like x 17
  2. That "If You Get Audited" poster in the H&R Block Window is funny!

    Nice report, over9000OT! Very interesting!
    • Like Like x 6
  3. hushpuppy Member

    Yes, very Interesting - waiting for the videos!
  4. anonsoulless Member

    Uploading video now. The wind noise is awful, very sorry.


    • Like Like x 8
  5. never Member

    I am so bummed I missed this ;_;
  6. over9000OT Member

    Here's some more pics.

    She wasn't wearing a bra, either.



    • Like Like x 6
  7. over9000OT Member

    We fucking missed you too.

    <3 Zombee!
  8. anonsoulless Member

    • Like Like x 7
  9. anonsoulless Member

    To my knowledge this is the first time anyone has bothered to come outside and ask us what we're on about.

    Once every 4 years I guess.
    • Like Like x 2
  10. over9000OT Member

    dat wind
  11. anonsoulless Member

    It's pretty bad. Unavoidable.
  12. A devil's advocate would say you were getting "handled", and that she's looking for info on why you're demonstrating (along with other stuff) so they can figure out what to try to stop you. Or possibly she's just distracting you guys so your attention, signage, etc. is less visible to the public and any other Scientologists. Or both.

    For what it's worth, and not saying this was necessarily her intention, but cup o' coffee tech also appears to be a pretty standard move in the OSA playbook too. The whole thing can be used as a chance to pump you for info and find out what or who you're close to, as well as get some more statements that they can try to twist out of context and use against you at a future date. There have been activists who have done the get-together thing only to have the CoS immediately try to use what was said to have them charged with a crime. If you think I'm full of shit on this, send me a PM.

    We mustn't forget how mentally far gone some of these high-level Scientologists are. Once you start doing OT levels, dropping tons of G's for IAS memberships, and doing insane stuff like the L's, you are freaking gone. Not that someone that high up can't wake up - it happens all the time - but it can be difficult to impossible to budge them in a naturally-adversarial setup like a protest. And I think it's suspicious that the person who came to talk to you just happened to be the head of the org - you know, a person responsible for achieving "total acceptance of Scientology within the region" (DSA job description). I'm hoping she just had genuine curiosity, but I think it's more likely that, at best, she's playin' with you guys, and at worst, she's up to no good. Jussayin'.

    Not to be a downer, just playing devil's advocate. Short version, I think it would be wise not to let your guard down just because you got your hopes up.
    • Like Like x 5
  13. never Member

    Well, we did have someone talk to/threaten to punch itsallourblood in the face before. And while she never spoke to us, Maggie has materialized (then quickly vanished into thin air) to hand us some anonymous hate crimes shit a couple of years ago too.

    I am way too tired to watch these videos tonight. I'm expecting total win, you faggots best not let me down.
  14. The fact that she did that makes me even more suspicious that she was just out there trying to "handle" things. I believe only a trusted OSA volunteer type would be given instructions to do that sort of thing.

    Which post does Maggie have - the DSA, ED, or what?
  15. never Member

    I can almost guarantee she's up to some shit. I'm also not surprised at all that Maggie has finally decided to speak with us the first time we protest our org after hitting up the Midwest shindig with you fine chifags. Now, I'm a cynical bitch and I'm not one to trust a cult member, but until we can digest what's going on a little bit more, I'm not going to rule out the possibility this is maaaaaaybe something other than us just getting handled. Now, that opinion may change once I actually watch the videos, lol.
  16. never Member

    I honestly have no fucking clue.
  17. Anonymous Member

  18. anonsoulless Member

    She literally stopped us in the process of leaving. We had all our shit packed up and in our hands and she comes to talk to us.

    she told us she is not an OT.

    Don't worry about it.
  19. anonsoulless Member

    I really don't care one way or another. If she's trying to handle us then that is what she is doing.

    The right answer in any case is to act in good faith. We really have nothing to lose.

    That said, next time maybe it won't be so damn windy and loud so I stand a slightly more polite distance away from the conversation with the camera.
    • Like Like x 6
  20. Uh, well, unless there's some case of mistaken identity, I think that speaks a lot about the levels of honesty (and probably by extension, goodwill) that she's displaying towards you.

    Thank you.
    Do not read this thread as its weird and has squirrel stuff on it.

    Don't get me wrong, I think you guys did great today. I'm sure you had a lot of fun and are hoping for a lot more interaction in the future. I'm just saying be careful too, okay? <3 you guys.
    • Like Like x 1
  21. Chipshotz Member

    Text of letter:

    27 Aug 2011

    Would you be willing to write a letter to a DJ at the Buzz 96.5 regarding a recent show he had on the air? The show was on 3 August. He interviewed the Editor of the Village Voice who was once the Editor of the Pitch. His name is Tony Ortega. The Village Voice is a "newspaper" in NYC. 90% of the paper is filled with personal ads of an aberated sexual content and the other 9% is aberated entertainment ads and the rest is articles.

    OSA Int is handling that Editor. So we don't need to do anything with him. However if you are willing to write a letter please write and complain about the show on Scn aired on 3 Aug. Lazlo disrespects all religions. He isn't singling out Scientology but he did interview this Editor over the phone and that guy said things that were not true about celebrities, the cost and our disconnection policy.

    Your letter should say something along the lines of how long you have been involved with Scn. The fact that Tony Ortega made statements that were false and the volume of lectures and books LRH has written about Scn. And how Ortega dint[sic] mention anything in those writings and hasn't read or listened to them. How they are in major public library all over in the United States and the world and how none of that was mentioned in the interview. Can talk about the good works we do (Drug Rehab, Literacy etc)

    Should say something along the about respecting peoples religious beliefs and freedom of speech does not give one the right to tell lies.

    7000 Squibb Road
    Mission Ks. 66202

    Dave Alpert
    General Manager same address

    Thank you

    [handwritten] Do not listen to show as its weird and has squirrel stuff on it

    • Like Like x 3
  22. ThetanBait Member


    Even the Trash Cans enturbulate the cult:

    • Like Like x 6
  23. Anonymous Member

    Never trust a Scientologist bearing ARC.
  24. amaX Member

    Well, I think you did fantastically awesome! Love the auditing sign in the HRBlock window. The trash can arrow is priceless! And who doesn't LOVE green and gold glitter on signage? Well done, KCAnons! <3
    • Like Like x 3
  25. over9000OT Member

    After sleeping on it, I am not 100% sure why this happened. I am reminded of the parable of The Scorpion and The Frog. Not sure who is playing the frog and who is playing the scorpion here. Time will tell.

    Every clever method of conceiving of this situation (Occam's Razor, the rationality assumption, etc...) says that this is an attempt at handling us. However, I think that there is no harm in providing her with lots and lots of relevant primary and secondary source information. I am going to send the email I promised her. I'm going to watch the videos she gave me and I'm going to provide her with a point by point, time-ordered, criticism of the videos in question. I also promised her that I would bring her proof (peer-reviewed in a reputable journal/outlet) that the purif rundown is a dangerous scam. That won't be hard to dig up. She is supposed to bring me literature to debunk my claims that ODing on niacin and sitting in a sauna is good for you/effective.

    I'll do my own research but /r/ing any documents proving that the COS has willfully released auditing folders after someone has blown or is being critical. I may have some more requests along the way.

    Maggie wants to know why we protest and I aim to show her.
    • Like Like x 7
  26. xenubarb Member

    Arrange a meeting with OTVI Rex Fowler. He is upstat and a great example of a Scientologist.
  27. over9000OT Member

    I kept waiting for an opportunity to ask her how that could happen. I get the feeling that that will not be our last conversation.
  28. Smurf Member

    Precisely. The anons are being played here and don't realize it. This is a problem I had with a number of SoCal anons who believed they could have an intelligent conversation with their Scilon handlers.. I had to back off and shake my head at the foolishness. Maggie's behavior and comments are reflective of her intentions. She's playing the role of someone with questions about Anonymous & why anons protest the cult, but when asked about cult abuses and asking her to look at objective information, it's ignore tech and being evasive... she claims she will look at websites.. but she is lying.

    Maggie & Jeff are longtime Scilons that have been wired to follow the tech & being blindly submissive to the policies of the cult. Maggie apprached anons with a deliberate plan of action to engage anons in a conversation with the belief she would be able to turn some of the anons... she is also very aware she's been videotaped, and that her peers in OSA will be watching & scrutinizing her confront in the video when it's uploaded on YouTube. Maggie is painfully aware that an OSA terminal watching the video would be off-put by her confront with anons (perceiving weaknesses on her part) and she'd be on the receiving end of a comm ev' or amends project.

    All I can say is.. if anons here believe they made some headway in convincing Maggie that they proved their point.. they are deluded. Maggie has been around the block and was very involved in the cult when it was heavily protested in the 90s.
    • Like Like x 6
  29. Chipshotz Member

    Never trust a Scientologist bearing ARC.
    KC anons are doing excellent work and I applaud over9000's integrity.
    • Like Like x 2
  30. ThetanBait Member

    My grounds for suspicion: The Scilons have demonstrated a cookie-cutter approach to handling suppression before. In interviews years apart, spokespeople have said "That is not my experience" when responding to allegations of Sea Org abuse (, Tom Devocht's & Mike Rinder's ex-wives used the same "I knew every inch of his bod" story in the Anderson Cooper investigation. As StrongStrength said, they've had someone try this in Chicago, this no-mask coffeetalk offer may be the latest strategy.
  31. Smurf Member

  32. anonsoulless Member

    Fuck me if I fail to see the harm in trying. Worst case she ignores what we present.
    • Like Like x 9
  33. Anonymous Member

    lurk moar
  34. I don't even think it's some sort of recent strategy, but more standard fare. Off the top of my head, within the past few years, I can think of several other similar situations:

    - D.C., where the Scn apparently claimed he first went out of his way to obtain "clearance" from both the DSA and Flag first, before any sort of prompting from Sparrow. That doesn't sound weird or suspicious at all...

    - Toronto

    - Boston, and granted the Scns didn't initiate this one, but the DSA was willing to do so - but only after another suspicious delay.

    Probably way more instances of it too. Again, jussayin'.
  35. never Member

    At the very least, it's kinda fun, which is a big part of why we've been out there every fucking month for three fucking years.

    no u.
    • Like Like x 4
  36. Again playing devil's advocate, I think the worst-case scenario is that you'd give them a head start on collecting stuff to try to use against you. If you were hypothetically going to begin gathering intelligence on someone - which sounds tinfoily, but something Scientology is known to have done - why would you not first try getting info straight from the source?

    Maybe they learn a few new angles they weren't aware of, maybe not everything said is 100% clear and they get a few quotes they can twist and use out of context against you. It doesn't hurt them to go fishing for an off-the-cuff comment that they can attempt to use with law enforcement, city council groups, or some bogus propaganda site.

    The fact that your intentions are entirely good doesn't necessarily protect you from anything. Scientology has found plenty of ways to screw over innocent people. And again, it's important to consider the person you'd be talking to. It's not like this was some Scientology newbie, only 3 months into taking courses, who talked to you because he was genuinely perplexed about what the controversy was about.

    Not saying any of these arguments should influence what you end up doing, or to invoke a bunch of OSAOSAOSA tinfoil bullshit - again, just playing devil's advocate.
    • Like Like x 1
  37. Anonymous Member

    When homo novis have doubts and want to hear more, they do so quietly, surreptitiously, fearful of repercussions, fearful of death. If they decide to communicate, they do so anonymously at first and very tentatively. Never openly in front of a camera where OSA can see what they are doing.

    When OSA wants to hurt someone, to frame them for a crime, they send a Scientology representative to befriend the victim before sticking the knife in.

    I personally would never agree to meet anyone from OSA anywhere except anonymously through a site like WWP.
  38. Any offer from any scientologist to play nice gives me the creeps. Take care, over9000OT.
    • Like Like x 5
  39. WogDoc Member

    Sock up; it is a trap.

    There is absolutely no way that revealing your identity to her is not going to end up in an OSA report. They write KRs on most everything, and there is zero doubt that her conversation with you was not only OKd and ordered, it was likely rehearsed as to what she was going to say and how she was going to say it.

    Remember that Scilons have zero problem with lying to people they perceive to be SPs. They practice their lies to sound more convincing. While you're watching that DVD, ask yourself what rational person is going to consider it convincing.

    She is neck deep in the kool-aid; considers you an Enemy to Mankind, and considers it her eternal duty to stop you in order to Clear the Planet. Any coffee tech is likely to come with a side of PI trying to figure out who you are. You fuck with snakes you are going to get bit.

    Finally, consider what your true objective is. IF she is willing to look, she can get out on her own-but chances are you will have zero to do with that internal decision. The REAL purpose Anonymous should concern itself with is to innoculate the general population so that CoS cannot replace the public that it needs to feed it. As they get out or die, attrition should see their numbers continue to shrink. Stay On Target.
    • Like Like x 5
  40. Anonymous Member

    KC anons, remember this is the org that told the feds they (allegedly) received a bomb threat from Anonymous. In all likelihood, do you think that was done without the ED's knowledge?

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