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Karen De la carriere/Jentzsch blows the cult.

Discussion in 'Independent Scientology' started by Anonymous, Jun 29, 2010.

  1. Anonymous Member

    Re: Karen De la carriere/Jentzsch blows the cult.

    One day Karen may realize her part fully in her son being in this cult, and I don't envy her.

    Right now, she can blame OSA and DM, but she and Heber accepted it.
    No calls to CPS, no calls to the police. Just excuses.
    For allowing a 10-11 year old to be in a religious order, signing a billion year contract

    I read what you said Khan, but she has not fully accepted her part in this. Maybe she will some day. But it is so much easier to blames everyone else. And she chooses to ignore any negative things about LRH. And she also chooses to ignore the fact that if Hubbard was really so advanced...how could he not see through DM? And she was so advanced, how could she not effect change?

    That should have been a big clue right there. She is the victim/martyr...not a homo novis.

    I would post this on Marty's blog, but he would delete it.

    I am glad she left in that we learned new info on Heber, and she still has a chance to fully wake up in the future.

    Right now, she is still in a cult.
  2. Consensus Member

    Re: Karen De la carriere/Jentzsch blows the cult.

    To be quite honest, in all my studies of the human psyche, two 'facts' stand out.

    I call them 'facts' (in quotation marks) becuase they are not proven via any empirical method, the defintions are not operationalized, and they are therefore wholly unscientific.

    But I came to discover them through philosophical inquiry and studying quanitifiable psychological science.

    Fact 1: Every intentioned action of every conscious being is meant to serve some 'good'
    Correlary to fact 1: there is great diversity in humanity, and in what each person regards as the 'ultimate good', but there is a very strong universality to the human experience nonetheless. Almost everyone regards helping those within their monkeysphere (friends, family, adherents to their religion, etc) as good. Almost everyone regards having a warm safe place to sleep as good. Almost everyone regards healthy, delicious, satisfying food as good. Almost everyone wants to love and be loved. Almost everyone wants to be regarded as having value to others.

    Fact 2: When a person acts in a manner you can't understand, in a way you can't wrap your mind around... it's often motivated by fear, guilt, shame, or embarassment. Which is to say, cognitive dissonance is the root cause.

    I use these two facts to interpret other persons as charitably as possible. Every time I meet a stranger at a bar, or come across someone on a psychological fugue (I work in the hotel industry, it's not rare), I use an approach based on these two facts - and it makes me a lot of friends.

    It even helps people understand themselves, their own behaviors, helps them come to peace with themselves.

    One of the tricks of Anonymous - a key trick of trolling - is to intentionally deny these two facts when interpreting a person. If the subjct of the trolling does not recognize these two facts as key players in their own behavior, trolling them can cause them serious emotional trauma. If they do realize these two facts, trolling them can help them better understand themselves, by demanding that they justify their behavior in the context of these two facts.

    But this is all ultimately conjecture and pop-psychology, marginally above Hubbard's idiotic nonsense.

    edit - the realization that there's no such thing as 'Strong Free Will' was a major breakthrough in understanding what I've described above. But that's a whole 'nuther can of worms.
  3. Kha Khan Member

    Re: Karen De la carriere/Jentzsch blows the cult.

    People quite reasonably question why I have been protective and defensive of Karen. This is why:
    This is why. That is the priority.

    There is time for Karen to confront what she has done, and not done, in the past and what her responsibility is. But right now there are more pressing issues.

    So, yes, to the extent anything I have to say is the least bit relevant, I'm reluctant to undercut, cave in, or undermine the morale of a mother who is trying not to lose her son. I am also reluctant to decrease the moral and other support that such mother is receiving.

    I'm not saying the above to make anyone else wrong or to criticize anyone here. I'm really not.

    Here is a crude analogy that will probably suck because it is late and I'm tired. Say you have a person who smoke three cartons of cigarettes a day and 30 years later gets lung cancer. Or who drank a quart of whiskey a day and 30 years later needed a new liver (assuming he could get one). Yes, these people have responsibility for their condition. [Though the drinker might claim he was an alcoholic or an addict and therefore had no control over his drinking, which might be similar to the practice of Scientology, but I digress.] But again, the point is that these people have responsibility for their condition. They are not entirely innocent victims.

    But first you do the surgery. First you fix the thing that needs fixing first. After that is taken care of the person should, of course, recognize that they can't smoke or drink anymore.

    Yeah, a crappy analogy, but best I can do right now.

    /
  4. JohnnyRUClear Member

    Re: Karen De la carriere/Jentzsch blows the cult.

    Of course. I would hope we all would prefer that, if those are the only choices.

    Ah.

    Yup. I bolded the proof.

    To any lurking "Independent" culties: why accept Marty's ClamNanny Truman Show 2.0? Why put up with yet another controlling narcissist who censors what you see? If your "tech" really works, step out of the MartyZone bubble, come on out into the light and prove it among us wogs. When (not if) that fails, all I can say is this:
    [IMG]
  5. Random guy Member

    Re: Karen De la carriere/Jentzsch blows the cult.

    Well, she's out, and from her own statement she's been one of the major financial contributor to the cult.

    A 1000 small cuts, drip-drip Slappy!
  6. Re: Karen De la carriere/Jentzsch blows the cult.

    Paying to get interrogated for 600 hours, at the cost of $700 an hour

    If thats not an indication that Hubbard's Tech is a total joke I don't know what is.

    Anyone with an IQ above room temperature would have found the door as soon as they said, we are going to interrogate you so we can dig up dirt to use against you, and you will be paying $700/hr for the privilege.
  7. Anonymous Member

    Re: Karen De la carriere/Jentzsch blows the cult.

    Apologies for the ignorance, but, if there is no RPF at Gold, how is there an 'SP hole' at INT?
  8. LarryBren Member

    Re: Karen De la carriere/Jentzsch blows the cult.

    FWIW I would like to say something about Karen that I think very few if any others really know. This is something I could not say until today as she is "out" of organized scientology.

    Over the past year* while Karen has been desperately trying to help her son and trying to prevent what ended up happening where he was used like he was, she has also been a huge help to me. Without Karen I would never have been able to have a major governmental contact with whom I am sharing many facts about organized scientology. I must leave out details but I just wanted to stress how much she has been helping behind the scenes all in an effort to help stop abuses and crime. In our many contacts she has tried over and over to help me with what I have been doing.

    I have seen this happen with many others who have really helped back channels before they came out and helped even more to expose abuses and the like. This includes the likes of Nancy Many, Amy Scobee, Jeff Hawkins, John Duigan and Marc Headly.

    So many have helped in ways almost no one will ever know and Karen is one of them.

    And, there are many more helping back channels now who are not quite ready to speak out, including many who have no love at all for Hubbard and his writings. Some have major stories to tell and I really look forward to when they do. It's just going to get better!

    While Karen and I do not agree on the value of "Hubbard tech", I know her to be a wonderful, very caring and nuturing person who I consider to be a good friend. I have known Karen to be this way for decades.

    We all need time to decompress and that includes Karen. In the meantime I really appreciate what she has in fact done to help expose crimes and abuses. I expect to see her do much more in the future however her feelings about Hubbard may develop.

    * EDIT: to be clear timewise, Karen and I were going over this a few months ago but not previous to then. Prior to the last few months (three I believe) I had been out of touch with Karen although I held her in very high regard from our days on staff together in the early 1980s when she audited me.
  9. RightOn Member

    Re: Karen De la carriere/Jentzsch blows the cult.

    wow!!! what the hell? I sleep late one morning and wake up to this deelish!!!

    This is great news!!!
    Sing like a canary Karen!!!

    And thanks for telling another perspective on Karen Larry.
    Although I don't agree with things that she has done with her life, at least she is fighting the cause in big ways, and can be a valuable asset to the cause.

    EDITED:
    inb4sparrowracestoDCorgwithnewnews! lol GO SPARROW!
  10. xenubarb Member

    Re: Karen De la carriere/Jentzsch blows the cult.

    He can look in a mirror.
  11. leafs Member

    Re: Karen De la carriere/Jentzsch blows the cult.

    Glad she's out. It's inhuman to have your son used against you in the way she describes it. She says Heber Jentzsch is still imprisoned. Six years by now. For how much longer is this bullshit supposed to be allowed to continue?
  12. RightOn Member

    Re: Karen De la carriere/Jentzsch blows the cult.

    Can Karen file a missing person case on Heber now that she is speaking out?
    Or at least ask local officials for a welfare check on him?

    Could she have done this before her son went into the SO? Or do I have the wrong time line?
  13. xenubarb Member

    Re: Karen De la carriere/Jentzsch blows the cult.

    Wasn't there a Jentzch involved in selling Thomas Kinkade paintings a few years back? Why, yes...yes there was. Karen.

    http://home.snafu.de/tilman/prolinks/index.html

    So flogging $10 original paintings on the street is bad, but flogging the modern equivalent of children with big sad eyes from an eBay site is like, upstat?

    Artwise, the street paintings probably had more artistic integrity than Kinkade's crappy cottage paintings.
  14. Anonymous Member

    Re: Karen De la carriere/Jentzsch blows the cult.

    wat?! No Rathbun or Rinder? Shocking...
  15. Re: Karen De la carriere/Jentzsch blows the cult.

    The one thing Scientology has going for it is, the common opinion of Scientology is that it's a batshit crazy cult, so the average person just tunes out it's criminality because they've grown to accept its a cult full of loony tunes and don't want to be bothered with it. The one angle that seems to pique people's attention is they have tax exempt status and tax dollars are being funneled to them through shell companies such as Narconon.

    If I start a cult related thread on a non-cult relation message board it will be lucky to get two responses and they will usually be about Xenu or how crazy Tom Cruise is, but if I create a thread about Sharron Angle trying to funnel tax dollars to the cult, it gets some interest and outrage.
  16. Anonymous Member

    Re: Karen De la carriere/Jentzsch blows the cult.

    I lol'd
  17. Re: Karen De la carriere/Jentzsch blows the cult.

    Yeah that was pure comedy gold
  18. gizmogirl Member

    Re: Karen De la carriere/Jentzsch blows the cult.

  19. JohnnyRUClear Member

    Re: Karen De la carriere/Jentzsch blows the cult.

    That is going to be fun.
  20. Re: Karen De la carriere/Jentzsch blows the cult.

    Is it a good time to have a little reminder of Milgram's experiment?

    [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y6GxIuljT3w&feature=PlayList&p=C4ED31DF1BE169B2&playnext_from=PL&playnext=1&index=43]YouTube - Milgram Experiment (Derren Brown)[/ame]
  21. kissyfur Member

    Re: Karen De la carriere/Jentzsch blows the cult.

    for the love of XENU THIS

    there IS real talent in the art world and kinkajou aint it

    glenn barr Home page
    joanthan weiner index
    scott musgrove Scott Musgrove
  22. Don Carlo Member

    Re: Karen De la carriere/Jentzsch blows the cult.

    Only a family member can push to see Heber; Karen's divorced, Heber's son is loyal to CoS.
    Any other relatives, besides Heber's 42 siblings(1)? The only Jentzsch names doing Scientology completions(2) are Heber, his first wife Yvonne (died of cancer), his second wife Karen, son Alex and Alex's wife Andrea Kavon Jentzsch.(3) I see a Beatta Jentsch(4) doing one course in 1973 - maybe Heber's sister?

    Karen's militancy and Claire Headley's forced-abortion lawsuit saved her grandchild from abortion and got her son into a kind of house arrest where he and his wife can raise their child - it can't be worse than Sea Org. Alex, raised in Scientology since birth and in Sea Org since around 11, is going to be heavily indoctrinated and obedient (unless he has an I-phone and can surf the net secretly). Maybe after Heber dies CoS won't be in danger from where-is-my-father questions from Alex, and will just try to re-recruit him, wife and (in ten years, if CoS still exists) the grandchild.

    1) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heber_Jentzsch

    2) http://www.truthaboutscientology.com/

    3) http://www.truthaboutscientology.com/stats/by-name/a/andrea-kavon-jentzsch.html

    4) http://www.truthaboutscientology.com/stats/by-name/b/beatte-jentsch.html
  23. timthephoto Member

  24. xenubarb Member

    Re: Karen De la carriere/Jentzsch blows the cult.

    ESMB Thetanic sez:

    Yeah. Where's yer grandkids, Heber?
  25. RightOn Member

  26. Don Carlo Member

    Re: Karen De la carriere/Jentzsch blows the cult.

    Alex Heber's wife Andrea's maiden name is Kavon. I see these Kavons completing courses (1):

    Maureen Kavon ; Maureen Kavon-Evans
    Vaughn Kavon
    Susan Kavon
    Melanie Kavon


    Start of Theory: Andrea's mother is Maureen Kavon, and she wrote this around 1997:
    (2)

    Maureen Kavon-Evans is on linked-in:
    Director of Software Development at InsureSuite, Inc. (3)http://www.linkedin.com/ppl/webprof...ocale=en_US&trk=ppro_viewmore&lnk=vw_pprofile

    Andrea's father is Vaughn Kavon, on the Freewinds (4).
    On linked-in, he is Owner, Kavon Property Investments,LLC http://www.linkedin.com/pub/vaughn-kavon/17/538/74a (5)

    One of Andrea's sisters is Melanie Kavon, who might be this one:
    The Auditor Issue 292 February 2001 News (life) - Mombu the ...
    2 posts - 1 author - Last post: Mar 29
    Melanie Kavon and Peter McCuen, engaged to be married (6)

    Another of Andrea's sisters is Susan Kavon, who is on Facebook and Twitter, and someone adept at this (not me) should figure out if this is the right Susan Kavon and ask how her sister's child is coming along.

    Andrea Jentzsch herself, and Alex Jentzsch are not on Facebook; some Europeans with the same name are there. It is ominous that although Alex Jentzsch has a 'high paying job" in some Scientology company, he's not on Linked-In or other networking site. I wonder if he "works" under very tight supervision - no surfing the net !?!

    End of Theory

    (1) The Truth About Scientology search for Kavon

    (2) Scientology - Maureen Kavon a Scientologist

    (3)http://www.linkedin.com/ppl/webprof...ocale=en_US&trk=ppro_viewmore&lnk=vw_pprofile

    (4) Operation Clambake Message Board :: View topic - Celebrities on the Asbestos-contaminated Freewinds Look under "V"

    (5) http://www.linkedin.com/pub/vaughn-kavon/17/538/74a

    (6) The Auditor Issue 292 February 2001 News (life) at http://www.mombu.com/religion/scien...ssue-292-february-2001-news-life-4494260.html
  27. Sam Urai Member

    Re: Karen De la carriere/Jentzsch blows the cult.

    Start with the obvious, maybe?

    [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RjxBnCuuvUs&feature=related]YouTube - Man in the mirror (Official Music Video) - Michael Jackson[/ame]
  28. thetanic Member

    Re: Karen De la carriere/Jentzsch blows the cult.

    It's good to remember that a large family is quite normal to Heber, who has 42 siblings (per his Wikipedia page).

    So it seems like a particularly interesting issue in his case.
  29. Kha Khan Member

    Re: Karen De la carriere/Jentzsch blows the cult.

    More from Karen.

    Praise for Tory Christman (aka Magoo):
    More praise for Tory:
    The $5000 Clear sec check:
    I find the last item particularly interesting. There are many things that both ex-Scientologists (and perhaps now Independent Scientologists), and people who have never been Scientologists will likely find objectionable -- $5000 sec checks being among them.

    But there are some things that probably only Scientologists, Indepdendent Scientologists and ex-Scientologists will understand and find objectionable. Among them, at least for me, is a "I am not auditing you now" sec check on one's Clear declaration. WTF? Even if one still believes in the Tech, that is just WRONG. It is inconsistent with the Tech and everything one was taught to believe in the Tech.

    I guess what I'm trying to say is that the part of Karen's story about receiving a "I am not auditing you" sec check on her Clear declaration will resonate with the current official Church of Scientology Scientologists who are reading Marty's board. They still might be willing to pay $5000 for a sec check, but to undergo (and pay that amount) for a "I am not auditing you" sec check on their Clear declaration? Invalidative. Disgusting. Just plain wrong.

    /
  30. thetanic Member

    Re: Karen De la carriere/Jentzsch blows the cult.

    What's even more interesting about that sec check on the Clear declare, from a Scn history perspective, is that you need to be OT III to do the Class VIII course (or the auditor training above that). And she was LRH trained to XII, so LRH had already approved her upper levels.
  31. Anonymous Member

    Re: Karen De la carriere/Jentzsch blows the cult.

    Normal people can't.

    WTF is it with Scientology and kitschy art anyway? Hell, considering Nazi art and "Socialist Realism" in the Communist countries, what is it with totalitarianism and kitschy art?

    I guess it's not surprising really. If you have an absolute faith in Scientology (or anything else), you probably won't appreciate subtlety and ambiguity in art either. Of course, Hubbard himself was a master of heavy-handedness. If he wrote about an evil character, then the guy was evil. Stereotypically evil. Ridiculously evil. Every act the character took would somehow reflect his evilness.
  32. exOT8Michael Member

    Re: Karen De la carriere/Jentzsch blows the cult.

    Yes indeed.
    You could not do Class 12 without being fully OT3.
    I did an amends project in 1976 at Flag and personally wrote the calligraphy on over 300 omitted certificates, especially for the Class 9 to 12s who had no certs. I sent all of the certs up to Hubbard and he signed the whole lot.
    Karen's certs were part of that.
  33. thetanic Member

    Re: Karen De la carriere/Jentzsch blows the cult.

    Also, separately, think about it: she's really given her son some tough love. For all but four years of his life, he's only known the SO. Now he and his wife are going to have a kid, have essentially no money, no secular job history, so they'll need support of family.

    Meanwhile, Karen's been successful in her endeavors, no matter how much you may think they're pointless.

    Essentially, she's saying to her son and daughter-in-law: if you want my help, you'll have to do it outside the CofS, the only formal structure you've ever known.
  34. Kha Khan Member

    Re: Karen De la carriere/Jentzsch blows the cult.

    A good analogy may be as follows. Say you have a son who is a drug addict. Perhaps meth. Perhaps coke. Perhaps heroin. You know, perhaps from experience, that any money you give him will not be spent on food, rent, bills, etc., but instead on his drug of choice. So at some point you say, "I'm sorry, but I'm not going to enable you anymore. It is not doing you any good. I love you and am more than willing to help you, but first you have to commit to being drug free. I will help you kick your addition. I will not enable your addiction."

    /
  35. Anonymous Member

    Re: Karen De la carriere/Jentzsch blows the cult.

    referring to OSA's Anti-Independents blog
    “War and Peace”

    HELLO OSA, YOU FAILED AGAIN!? LOL
  36. Kha Khan Member

    Re: Karen De la carriere/Jentzsch blows the cult.

    FWIW, my comment to Karen on Marty's board:
  37. thetanic Member

    Re: Karen De la carriere/Jentzsch blows the cult.

    Yep, KK, that's exactly what I meant.
  38. anon8109 Member

    Re: Karen De la carriere/Jentzsch blows the cult.

    This calls for a little celebratory music video. Dance to this OSA!

  39. EyeOnSci Member

    Re: Karen De la carriere/Jentzsch blows the cult.

    Something that I find rather interesting is, since Karen is a "top Flag trained auditor", now in the field of "pre-OTs" who are more "upstat as they progress up the bridge to total freedom", has she been raking in the dough auditing Scientologists in the field? Seems only reasonable if one were to believe in the tech and the credibility of the Flag hype.

    After all, Davey is not in the field.

    I'm also wondering if her son's relative mentioned above, works for the Scientology owned Survival Insurance:

    Survival Car Insurance (Survival Insurance Brokerage) Review | Rip-off Report #62341

    The comments by ex-employees are interesting as they recall being coerced to go to the CoS.
  40. Anonymous Member

    Re: Karen De la carriere/Jentzsch blows the cult.

    Her glowing oozing love of LRH makes me sick...what about the 4 year old in chains in the hold of her precious Freewinds..what about ...oh it's no use, she'd suck his dick if he were still alive...her sudden concern for only HER son..is repulsive but condition we have seen over and over with Scientologists, lol save the world my ass, only HER world.

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