Discussion in 'News And Current Events' started by Unregistered, Jul 21, 2009.
Khamenei Fires Ahmadinejad’s Deputy; Ahmadinejad Fights Back niacINsight
Is Ahmadinejad taking advantage of the hard-liners' weakness to move independently? What the hell is going on?
the snake's eating its own tail
The messier the whole situation gets politically, the better.
The main problem are very strong but oversimplified beliefs.
When Grand Ayatollahs critizise the Supreme Leader, when Ahmadi is having infights with the ultra-right, then loyal government supporters will have to scratch their heads and start to think.
No, I don't think it is "hardliners weakness". Ahmedinejad, IMO, is not really a hardliner. He has his own perspectives. He was limited in his first term, and had to cater to his support base, which drew from the hardliners.
His second term, if he survives, he will push forth his own agenda (oppose privatization; consolidate political and economic power in the IRGC and war veterans; ease up some social restrictions like removing or limiting the gasthe ershad; target corruption of the old elites including Rafsanjani and his cronies, some Reformists, and some hardliners; etc)
Depending on how blatantly he pursues these, he is setting himself up for beng targeted from all sides. The protesters movement. The hardliners. Rafsanjani and his cronies. and Khamenei.
"The Supreme Leader has ordered Ahmadinejad’s first deputy to resign from Ahmadinejad’s cabinet just days after his appointment, according to the Deputy Speaker of the Parliament.
However, Ahmadinejad’s senior assistant says “the decision to appoint Mashaei will not be revisited,” according to BBC Persian."
It sounds like Ahmadinnerjacket knows the supreme leader is on the ropes and that his orders are basically irrelevant now.
Oh, I also don't believe this story that Khamenei "fired" Mashei. He has asked Ahmadinejad directly to remove him.
He still needs to find someone to swear him in on inauguration day - otherwise he will be nothing.
That won't be a problem. That structure and people are in place.
A lot of important political figures may not be there, which would "look bad" but really will not affect the swearing in.
But the Majlis will wait for when he submits his cabinet and veto the people the don't like.
So, who really has the final say in whether or not Mashaei will be the vice president? It's pathetic when things like tolerance and compassion make you a target and a "threat."
I could be wrong , but these signs indicate some sort of panicking of khamenei and co.
First indication was Kham supporting Ahmad, now when things don't go so smoothly, the criticizing begins....
It all begins to crumble, they try to save themselves... will not work, religious regime is
cracking in it's foundation....
The 'fake' revolution (call it dictator swapping) against Shah lasted a year... I bet this one will be over before december.....
Basically Khamenei is supposed to not meddle with daily politics if there is no important cause.
When he does so, his word should be as final as the pope's.
If his favourite PM starts to ignore him, that should prove interesting.
The parliament is apparently going to enforce it according to one of the news items that just came in to this forum.
The Pope doesn't have the kind of power that the Ayatollah does. The Pope has spoken ex cathedra twice in 2000 years. Those two times were binding on Catholics. When he speaks on behalf of all the bishops or on behalf of what is already considered binding, then that is binding too on Catholics.
His job is to pontificate -- pont, meaning bridge -- that is; to build bridges, mend relationships. That's his job.
What's the Ayatollah's job?
I've had it down for 31st October (at the latest) all along, but it's probably only a couple of days before it all comes to a head.
That's one way of looking at it. The Pope's hat is actually the pagan fish-god, Dagon's hat. It was sort of 'stolen' from the fish god by a Roman Emperor and given to the pontiff.
I wonder if this conflict over Rahim-Mashaie is a pretext for Ahmadinejad to resign and save face. It’s a long shot, but it’s very odd for him to pick a fight with Khamenei right now.
Wiser Than the Crowd: Esfandiar Rahim-Mashaie -- and some long-shot speculation
I don't remember the law with regards VPs. The Majlis has to approve his cabinet, but that does not affect the VP choices.
I also don;t think this is a sign of "panicking" as one poster puts it. There were calls for him to be fired and removed when Mashaei made the statements initially. This is politics as usual in Iran. It seems many of you did not follow news in Iran over the last four years. Ahmadinejad got chewed out multiple times by both Khamenei and his hardliner supporters for various things. Not every disagreement is a sign of crisis or regime crumbling.
It sounds quite plausible to me.
So? What does this have to do with his power vis a vis the power of Ayatollah?
I for one did not follow the Iranian news till recently. I honestly was thinking, Iran consisted for 90% of radical religious people only shouting 'Death to America' , stoning women, discriminating other religions... Untill that day I was triggered by protests and youtube movies about the real people of Iran, brave protestors, brave women..... Also wanting freedom. I was amazed and shocked by my own ignorance.
Someone should have told him that, before he waded in to this election and backed his wee boy!
I've been out for a few hours, came back and read this news! I could hardly believe my eyes!
What a week - just when you thought nothing would surprise you.
It certainly sounds like Khamini has no authority whatsoever over anyone at the minute. Last month he told everyone to go home and back Amamadman - the next day they were out on the streets, and Mousavi etc said "keep the protest going."
Yesterday he warned people not to speak against the regime, and the three musketeers released statements encouraging the protesters.
Today he tells Amamadman to remove the guy from office and Amamadman says 'no!"
Talk about a regime imploding! This is fantastic - looks like they're going to destroy themselves - oh may God speed the day, so that there's no more innocent people being tortured or killed.
I may be wrong, but I think politics as usual would be to test out limits as long as the big dog (Supreme Leader) stays silent. And when he starts to bark, then make a hasty retreat.
I've never ever heard of someone either openly ignoring or defying the Supreme Leader before the last elections.
If I've missed something, please fill me in.
Spouse having thought about this news, thinks it could possibly be a political move on the part of the regime, to show that Amamadman is completely separate from Khamini, that he is not his puppet.
Spouse thinks this could be a very clever scheme to try and fool the people.
Hopefully if spouse is right, it will backfire on them. Things that work in normal dictatorship time, probably don't work when a regime is collapsing!!!!
Fight it Ahmadi!
Don't let that big ol supreme leader tell you what to do!
Tell parliament to suck it!
And you know, piss everyone off however else you can too.
Khamenei Fires Ahmadinejad’s Deputy; Ahmadinejad Aid Fights Back niacINsight
That apparently did not stop Ahmadinejad’s senior assistant from saying on a live TV program that “I have not seen a clear and convincing reason given by anyone to make [Mashaei’s] appointment to the first deputy position impossible. Some say he has made mistakes in some of his statements. Well, everyone makes mistakes.”
Ok, now that becomes this:
Update: Ahmadinejad’s aid has retreated from his earlier statement, saying he was misinterpreted by the media, Raja News reports [Persian]. The aid says no personnel changes have been made, but that does not mean none will be made in the future.
It sure is a complicated language. So what does the above mean?
"The supreme leader's advice will be followed" ?
If, so he would really be saying:
"The guy will be sacked"
It gets more and more curious!
I was just about to reply to your last post when this came on! I was going to say Well as long as Amamadman keeps on pressing the self-destruct button, he is welcome to annoy whoever he likes!
The sooner he destroys this regime forever the better!!!!
sauce: Defiant Ahmadinejad defends controversial VP pick - Yahoo! News
D: damn damn DAMN it we shoulda gotten him to say for over 9000 reasons
Oh man, this is good stuff!
I demand more reasons!
Oh, and Ahmadi...say some more stuff to piss off your buddies. Please?
'round these parts, Jibber, we call that a sheet of glass. Not much use for good reflections, eh?
But they always told everything in very flowery way. Iranian language is very expressive.
If you translate some of the names of political parties ex: "Sweet Scent of Service",or "Alliance of Builders of Islamic Iran" they also sound very flowery, don't they?
Yes, but Revolutionary Guards also have many technocrats, managers and profesionals in their ranks. They own factories, businesses, research centers, universities. So it is really not that bad for Ahmadinejad. If in reality it was a military coup d'etat.
to me, its seems like the regime is beginning to implode in on itself. I really think Ahmafirinmahlazor has little time left.
Sweet Scent of Service
"Sweet Scent of Service" is the most bad-ass name for a political party ever. Where do I get my card?!?
Also, it's my new line for when I fart in public.
And Christmas was stolen from the Pagans' Winter Solstice Rites, yeah whatever Merry Christmas in July!
Anyway, I believe one possible explanation for this is that Ahmadinejad sees the possibility of Khamenei falling (and possibly the entire religious establishment with him?) and wants to survive with the top position. I seem to recall he has attacked the clerical establishment in the past as corrupt. Anyway, that would not be a good thing.
Short of an open civil war, should this crisis tip over the hard-liners will still be around, and they will still have the guns! Depending on what happens, either Khamenei or Ahmadinejad would still be very powerful people with the ability to grab still more power. If they're not bought off or sidelined, they could make things very nasty.
Yeah, I've worried about the hardliners still retaining a lot of power too.
government by divine right,is not,in recent history,able to maintain itself without military backing and even then,has a nasty habit of ending on the chopping block.
and in this day and age even the minions can't sink back into the general population due to those pesky cameras.
That is impossible. If Khamenei falls, Ahmadinejad would automatically be removed by either the new Leader or the new government.
And the IRGC, basij, and military are, end of the day, going to be more loyal to Khamanei.
So it is unlikely Khamenei can be removed, except by Expediency Council - the consequences of which are unknown. But he cant be remove by other forceful ways.
I'm guessing he just wants to survive with his life.
how romantic. "how do i love thee? let me count the ways ..."
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