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Laws against the practices of scientology and others

Discussion in 'Scientology and Anonymous' started by baddakota, Jan 30, 2011.

  1. baddakota Member

    I don't know why me having a different understanding than you, makes me wrong and you right, rather than me having gall to propose something you are uncomfortable with in search of a middle ground, but I do understand the law and how hard it can be to change for some and how easy for others (usually requires $, but not always). Mostly, I am not so narrow in focus to ONLY be looking at Scientology, nor only looking backward.

    Squirm if you will, but this article shows quite clearly that religion can take advantage of overly broad laws, and I have already pointed out that laws don't have to change to change what is going on. I am secular, I think religion makes no sense regardless of what religion we are talking about, but i support an adults right to practice as long as they don't push it on me, which somehow happens all the time anyway. I'll keep looking at the forest, you keep looking at the tree, that is how balance works best.

    And yes, MOST children follow the religion of their parents, but asked a parent whose child ran away at 14 and joined a cult if that is ALWAYS the case. Personally, I wouldn't expose any minor to religion, at home or otherwise, religion is the worst oppressor of free thought in both children and parents, IMO, but that's just me, I'm a dictator like that.
  2. xenubarb Member

    The issue is not about recruiting. It's about approaching children. Although I don't know any kids who would accompany a stranger to an upstairs office.
  3. baddakota Member

    @xenubarb: sadly it does happen, children don't know better, that is why they have and/or need their own set of laws and protections, regardless of what religion we are talking about.
  4. tikk Member

    Well, yeah, that's the issue in OP's head, clear enough, but how much of an issue is this on the ground? Granted, I pay looser attention to Everything Involving Scientology than I once did, but I've never once heard this to be a problem. My sense is that OP conjured a scenario in his/her mind that bears no reflection on reality, and was immediately off to the races, without considering the practical ramifications much less the constitutionality. And from a Scientology recruiter's POV, it makes no sense either--they're well aware that a staff employment contract signed by a minor is legally worthless, so I seriously doubt they're targeting minors, at least those with parents. Could there be a handful of instances where, e.g., a runaway 16-year old joined Scientology? Sure, but not to any systemic degree approaching the need for OP's proposed law.

    I'm as aware as the next critic as to Scientology's mistreatment of minor staff members, and I'm equally if not moreso aware of the legal issues raised. But in every instance of which I'm aware, those kids came to Scientology via their parents. And there is simply no way to draft a constitutionally-comporting law that would restrict a parent's right to religiously instruct their children, much less restrict representatives from a religious entity (or really, any entity) from "recruiting" because, as I mentioned, it's basically impossible to determine when a discussion starts and recruiting begins (and ends). So any law proscribing recruiting in such a scenario will naturally be struck down on first amdt grounds pretty quickly.
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  5. Anonymous Member


    Hence, Constitutional amendment, as I suggested. Partial repeal of (or at least, additional constraints on) the 1st amendment.
    [aside]
    Some of us "liberals" have been cottoning to the notion that the 2nd, for all its good intentions and excellent aims, has been obsoleted due to the vast imbalance of power between weaponry available to citizens and the state respectively. Maybe we could draw up an omnibus to rewrite BOTH; given that the 1st amendment is being obsoleted by the spectre of terrorism and all these threats to our children.
    [/aside]

    Think we can get 34 states?
  6. Anonymous Member

    Fortunately, no.

    The PATRIOT Act was enough of a turd as it is, building on it and making it part of the Constitution doesn't make the shit smell any sweeter.
    • Like Like x 2
  7. Virezz Member

    I'd love to. Anyone up for a protest at a Scientology Bookstore and Church in the Bay Area?
  8. Anonymous Member

    no.
  9. Sponge Member

    Related material:
  10. Zak McKracken Member

    thanks
    massive, awesome TL;DR
    not sure how relevant for the issues raised ITT

    but 41:30 - 41:52 is Pure Gold

    Edit: if you can't sit through the whole thing,
    everything from 41:30 on is at least moderately relevant.
  11. Sponge Member

    ^Why I thought of that video was because of the interesting points raised by Kent (from about 21:30) with regard to how the European model differs in how we treat sects, and in how we defend the child from the more harmful beliefs of their parents (or those acting in loco-parentis for that matter).

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