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Lawsuits against CoS dismissed because they're a "church"

Discussion in 'Marc Headley v. Church of Scientology Internationa' started by RevModemac, Aug 6, 2010.

  1. RevModemac Member

  2. Anonymous Member

    Re: Lawsuits against CoS dismissed because they're a "church"

    Man, what does a "church" have to do to get courts to look at it?

    I know this will be appealed by the Headleys, but it looks like the only people that can sue have to have been sexually abused, related to people who died while in CoS's care, etc....where the CoS helped hide evidence, protect the person who committed the crime, etc.
    Crimes that cannot be claimed to be part of the religious beliefs of CoS, essentially.

    Can lawfags chime in please?

    This pisses me off.
  3. Anonymous Member

    Re: Lawsuits against CoS dismissed because they're a "church"

    I sure hope somebody makes it a point to get in touch with the judge in question with Sea Org horror stories.

    If he refuses to listen, I ESPECIALLY hope nobody gets it into their head to dox him and send a flood of pizzas and poster tubes his way. That would be wrong.


    So very wrong.


    Don't do those things.

    Mod edit: Staff reminds you to kindly not be a fucking idiot. Thanks in advance.
  4. Anonymous Member

    Re: Lawsuits against CoS dismissed because they're a "church"

    I of course meant "her", as this judge is a woman.
  5. genoramix Member

    Re: Lawsuits against CoS dismissed because they're a "church"

    pooning needed in the comments...the scilons are having a party there...and will be a nice way to blow off some steam

    RAEG!!!!!
  6. Ann O'Nymous Member

    Re: Lawsuits against CoS dismissed because they're a "church"

    Shame.
  7. RolandRB Member

    Re: Lawsuits against CoS dismissed because they're a "church"

    They have the religious doctrine of R2-45 so it is OK for them to kill people according to US law.
  8. Anonymous Member

    Re: Lawsuits against CoS dismissed because they're a "church"

    Heh, or subvert their line of reasoning:

    "we all should be responsible for our own actions, because we're not really covered in clusters of body thetans following the implanted instructions of Xenu."
  9. Sponge Member

    Re: Lawsuits against CoS dismissed because they're a "church"

    Well, the judge did read about sea org horror stories....in the very lawsuits that she kicked out. They are not interested because religions are allowed to do whatever they like in the USA without fear of prosecution. They are above the law. They are gods already, dontcha know?. BRB joiningthecult.
  10. Hombre Moderator Skandinaviska

    Re: Lawsuits against CoS dismissed because they're a "church"

    I didn't expect the lawsuits to go anywhere, but not for this reason. The judge is a moron basically saying "yeah I don't care what you say they do, they're a religion and they could take your babies and eat them for all I care"
  11. Anonymous Member

    Re: Lawsuits against CoS dismissed because they're a "church"

    Well, then I guess we know what that means...

    nzatR.jpg
    [COLOR="Red"]
    P.S.: Don't be one.

    -The Mod Staff- [/COLOR]
  12. Re: Lawsuits against CoS dismissed because they're a "church"

    So Jim Jones did nothing wrong in Guyana, since the abuse of his followers and the murdering of Congressman Leo Ryan is protected by the First Amendment's guarantee of free exercise of religion:"

    He had no reason to make his followers drink the Kool-Aid after all.
  13. Anonymous Member

    Re: Lawsuits against CoS dismissed because they're a "church"

    this an evil satanist evil
    period
  14. Anonymous Member

    Re: Lawsuits against CoS dismissed because they're a "church"

    Bit of a hollow victory for the cult, one many expected though perhaps not quite in this fashion. On the one hand they cement their rights to be an abusive cult while on the other hand the publicity acts as a warning that they are an abusive cult and there is nothing you can do about it if you join them and fall foul of their doctrines.

    That said I wish the Headleys well with their appeal. Sounds like it's going to be an awkward one because of the "unique legal position" religion has in the USA. Given most American's are pro-religion it will be an up hill battle. Shame they weren't employed by the cult in France or Germany or perhaps even in UK.
  15. Anonymous Member

    Re: Lawsuits against CoS dismissed because they're a "church"

    So if the Catholic Church were to prove in court it is a long-standing policy (at least 26 years, as per this precedent) to hide priests who molest children then, when done in the name of religion, molesting children is not a crime in the eyes of U.S. District Judge Dale S. Fischer?

    Thanks to the decisions by U.S. District Judge Dale S. Fischer, the Ku Klux Klan (which is a church) needs to make slavery a policy. Then slavery can be reinstated in the United States, and nothing could be done about it because, in this context, to U.S. District Judge Dale S. Fischer, slavery is a pious act of religious expression by the devout and faithful who want nothing more than complete domination of the United States.

    Hell, any corporation can become a chu-- err, "applied religious philosophy" to get out of every other law. Now The Holy Church of Jesus Chrysler can have 18 hour shifts and can reduce pay to a much more U.S. District Judge Dale S. Fischer-compatible 30 cents an hour.
  16. RightOn Member

    Re: Lawsuits against CoS dismissed because they're a "church"

    I think Xenophon said it in a nutshell about religion and breaking the law
  17. Anonymous Member

    Re: Lawsuits against CoS dismissed because they're a "church"

    That certainly is a setback and one of the biggest wins Scientology has had since Chanology started. That said, there is the possibility of appeal and in the beginning I don't think anyone expected to see such a lawsuit.
    I'm not american so maybe that's why I fail to see how it is even remotely possible to come to such a judgement when the facts aren't really in dispute. It seems that either the judge or the law has some serious flaws. I also doubt that this is what the founding fathers of the US constitution had in mind when they created protections for religions. They probably wouldn't have been able to dream of an organization such as CoS which uses religion as a mere cloak for tax purposes and to get away with mindboggling stuff which otherwise would never be tolerated by official institutions such as police, governments or courts.
    It was right for the Headleys to try it this way and I hope they go on appeal and win, but even if they don't, the publicity and the signal that you can go to court if you have been illegally wronged by Scientology were very important. Also the courage they display by doing so is an important signal to the exes community.
    A closer analysis of the judgement may be in order so further lessons can be learned.
  18. RolandRB Member

    Re: Lawsuits against CoS dismissed because they're a "church"

    The difficulty with the Headleys was that they were living off base at one stage so not being kept there. It would be better for ex-Sea Org kids who were kept on base or at least broke away before they were adults to sue for minimum wage. I hope that some of them do that in the UK where the court bias against Scientology beggars belief. If I told you a story from the Bonnie Woods case then nobody here would believe me.
  19. Anonymous Member

    Re: Lawsuits against CoS dismissed because they're a "church"

    The thing that baffles me is that CoS used to be held accountable in the court, Wollersheim, Christofferson, etc. CoS has settle countless lawsuits also. Has something changed? I'm waiting for real lawyer to enlight me here, because I do not understand, especially given the Headleys were not even adult when they join.
  20. tippytoe Member

    Re: Lawsuits against CoS dismissed because they're a "church"

    This "ministerial exception" bs has to go.
  21. Anonymous Member

    Re: Lawsuits against CoS dismissed because they're a "church"

    Comments...needs more entheta-
    body thetans, Xenu, remind them that auditing= addiction.
  22. Anonymous Member

    Re: Lawsuits against CoS dismissed because they're a "church"

    "Scientology exempt from human trafficking laws -- US Fed Judge" would make a great (and true) headline.
  23. Anonymous Member

    Re: Lawsuits against CoS dismissed because they're a "church"

    David Miscavige's right to assault people is now enshrined in US law.
  24. Anonymous Member

    Re: Lawsuits against CoS dismissed because they're a "church"

    I think the effect you're looking at isn't so much "ministerial exemption" as it is "dumb cunt on the bench exemption".

    With the former, there's some room for accountability, because the rights of religious ministers are limited (if pretty vast), but it is very hard to keep the latter accountable as they are the ones interpreting our rights for us.
  25. Anonymous Member

    Re: Lawsuits against CoS dismissed because they're a "church"

    And the phony religious cloaking prevails again, just like LRH intended.


    evilscientology

    "8. It was determined that the only way to handle many of the legal matters in front of us
    and still apply Hubbard’s policies that had to do with staff, ethics, sales of services,
    money, delivery of services and the like was to develop and use a religious cloaking
    saying scientology was a religion, its services religious, its staff members of religious
    orders and the like. I can state without doubt that the overwhelming main reason that
    organized scientology developed and pushed its religious cloaking was to avoid a myriad
    of real or potential legal problems that would exist by following Hubbard’s policies if it
    were not considered a religion. By developing this religious cloaking for organized
    scientology it was hoped to avoid legal requirements around the world that might
    otherwise have to be followed that would make it impossible to follow Hubbard’s
    policies. In developing the religious cloaking for organized scientology, the following
    were considered a few of the “benefits” so that Hubbard policies could be applied. There
    are countless examples but the below are listed simply as a few of them:
    (i) minimum wages would not have to be paid;
    (ii) staff could be sent to different parts of the world and be able to stay locally as
    religious workers;
    (iii) standard employee rights, such as those found in laws like the Fair Labor
    Standards Act, could be discarded and thus Hubbard policies involving such
    things as ethics conditions, the Rehabilitation Project Force and the like could
    be applied without outside interference;
    (iv) less scrutiny would be allowed on the controls of the funds of scientology and
    the intermingling of funds between the corporations and other legal fictions of
    organized scientology;
    (v) it was hoped that the treatment of public scientologists and the use of their
    funds would be considered outside the purview of governmental bodies;
    (vi) couching the demand for and flow of monies within organized scientology
    using “religious” terms (such as by saying that clear cut mandatory payments
    for services were “fixed donations” and were mandated by the scripture of
    “exchange”) was hoped to cut off attempts by governments and others to look
    into them further;
    (vii) what was considered one of the most important reasons for the religious
    cloaking was so that the services of dianetics and scientology could be
    delivered without it being considered the practice of psychology and/or
    medicine. It was feared that unless there was a religious cloaking developed
    and used throughout organized scientology that its practices would be
    outlawed in many parts the world."
  26. Major Boyle Member

    Re: Lawsuits against CoS dismissed because they're a "church"

    The first amendment protects the freedom of religion, up until the point where substantial harm is being caused. In other words, your religious beliefs cannot be used to sanction murder, rape etc. Also, the courts have adopted a "compelling government interest" doctrine, so if you can show a compelling reason why the government should infringe, they're toast.

    Also, show how Scientology adopted a religion cloak (see above) to avoid all the laws it would have to deal with.

    Finally, show how Scientology is not a religion. The spirits of dead space aliens are not supernatural. They are not a higher power. Hubbard's BS about thetans creating the universe is nonsense. If thetans could create the universe, how the hell could they be held against their (omnipotent) will in a movie theater and made to watch reruns for millions of years?
  27. Anonymous Member

    Re: Lawsuits against CoS dismissed because they're a "church"

    This ruling fails at recognizing established precedent. It will be overturned on appeal.

    The Judge in this case obviously hasn't read up on related lawsuits and their decisions. This is no time to reverse decades of law because the Scientologist's feelings are hurt.
  28. Re: Lawsuits against CoS dismissed because they're a "church"

    Tell us! Always room for one more cool story, bro.

    Also, Dale S Fischer can go talk to the families of the Tokyo Sarin Attack, and try justifying her bullshit reasoning to them. And when she's done, Congressman Ryan's family would like a word, I'm sure.
  29. Re: Lawsuits against CoS dismissed because they're a "church"

    I guess there's no point it trying to bring anyone responsible for 9/11 to court, since they were merely practicing their religion which the First Amendment's guarantee of free exercise of religion allows them to do.
  30. Anonymous Member

    Re: Lawsuits against CoS dismissed because they're a "church"

    I guess I can see the courts point of view on this. Let's say you had a group of friends that made a little pact together that none of them would have kids and if they did they'd have an abortion. Would that really be illegal? Not unless they were threatened at gunpoint or something. And that's why Scientology will probably keep getting away with stuff. Because Scientology uses psychological coercion to make people do things, and at the end of the day it's the member that makes that decision to continue to let Scientology control their life.
  31. Anonymous Member

    Re: Lawsuits against CoS dismissed because they're a "church"

    Employment Division v. Smith - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


    ...except for the 2010 U.S. District Judge Dale S. Fischer exemption for human trafficking. It is NOW LEGAL (thanks to the ruling of U.S. District Judge Dale S. Fischer) in the United States to engage in slavery if you're a church, in direct contradiction with over 2 decades of Supreme Court precedent.
  32. Anonymous Member

    Re: Lawsuits against CoS dismissed because they're a "church"

    imho this "win" should be pushed on every (social) media outlet possible. Title : Institution can continue to coerce abortions and commit human trafficking, because it is a religion -- a judge says.
  33. Anonymous Member

    Re: Lawsuits against CoS dismissed because they're a "church"

    Who are you to say that something is not religious doctrine? The thetans could very well have been held in movie theaters by the same force that split the dead sea.
  34. Anonymous Member

    Re: Lawsuits against CoS dismissed because they're a "church"

    This judge didn't do her job and should be held accountable for the damage she has done.
  35. Anonymous Member

    Re: Lawsuits against CoS dismissed because they're a "church"

    From the ruling:

  36. Anonymous Member

    Re: Lawsuits against CoS dismissed because they're a "church"

    Yeah, the "force" of bullshit
  37. Rockyj Member

    Re: Lawsuits against CoS dismissed because they're a "church"

    (This is a similar post I posted on other thread)

    We are going about this wrong (as note by a Anon in other post).
    http://forums.whyweprotest.net/299-marc-headley-v-church-scientology-international/claire-headley-v-csi-rtc-lawsuit-filed-jan-20-2009-a-37106/15/#post1300842

    The US needs a Senator Xenophon
    WE need another brave soul like Congressman Ryan (Killed @ Jones Town)
    WE NEED TO LOBBY & GET A US SENATOR TO SPONSOR A BILL or an ACT???
    (Like the violence against women act??)
    I'm not sure of the process but it could be called the Lisa McPherson and/or Headly's and/or SPARROW, or any cult victim BILL!

    http://law.jrank.org/pages/5562/Congress-United-States-HOW-BILL-BECOMES-LAW.html

    Has Old Guard ever tried this before?
    Has this ever been tried before?

    There are thousands of family member's that have been torn apart, ruined & victims of cults!
    FLDS Church, Moonies, etc.
    THAT SADLY our country allows in the name of religious freedom instead of OUR human rights!

    Factnet & all the other anti-cult groups (that usually concentrate on a specific cults) can join together @ one web site to advocate/lobby our states elected officials to help us END the criminal activities of all these so called religions in the name of OUR religious freedom!
  38. Anonymous Member

    Re: Lawsuits against CoS dismissed because they're a "church"

    Was that a rulling in 'v Smith' or in 'Headley v'? Is there a link to the full Headley ruling?
  39. Major Boyle Member

    Re: Lawsuits against CoS dismissed because they're a "church"

    I'm saying that Scientology's own doctrine shows that thetans are merely disembodied spirits without supernatural power. If they had the power, they could not be held against their will.
  40. Anonymous Member

    Re: Lawsuits against CoS dismissed because they're a "church"

    <facepalm> Wordclear 'supernatural'

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