Discussion in 'Freedom of Expression' started by mojo, Feb 12, 2011.
Gaddafi's handing out guns to newscasters. Not sure if this is a plus or a minus for the rebels.
That'll depend on which direction the newscasters point the gun.
That depends on whether they're from Fox or MSNBC.
State TV presumably, so pro-Gadaffi fuckwits.
Thanks for posting this. More people can watch the video that goes with this now. Thanks! I've seen it at the other forum too and I believe it's Libyan State TV. And they're definitely pro-Gaddafi in this case...
Well, the more we see these pictures and the videos they're in, the more the whole world gets to see how twisted and narcissistic a despot like the good ol' Colonel can be. Lol, a Libyan friend watched this and told me he couldn't wait to slap around the ''gentleman'' holding the gun. Cheers to free speech and the irony of it for criminals like Gaddafi and his self-sponsored television monopoly.
Just updates on misrata.
A kadaffi aircraft decided to test the nofly zone today.
A french aircraft intercepted it,the gov aircraft landed at misrata airport but was destroyed on the ground.
The snipers in civilian clothing sent by kadaffi were driven out but there is heavy fighting in the city centre along tripoli street.
The hospital has been shelled.
Gov tanks are using cover in the city to avoid airstrikes.
Red area's are in kadaffis control.
Shelling is coming from the market area.
The red line is tripoli street.
Fresh video just from misrata taken today.
Sorry about the double post firefox 4 is nuts
Before or after pilot disembarked?
The pilot was still in the plane.
The plane had just made contact with the tarmac and was hit with a missile
-sigh- goddamnit, if it's on the ground it isn't violating a NFZ. The least they could have done is wait for the guy to get out of the plane, if they were trying to eliminate enemy resources.
Things are happening quickly since my last post.
looks as tho misrata and zintan have been liberated by rebels with NFZ support. ajdabiya is getting there it seems but it's so hard to know what's going on. there's been talk of negotiations for a surrender by pro-G fighters http://bit.ly/gXKblg
in other news...a somewhat fake funeral. i've never seen a funeral there with flowers for starters and certainly not "arrangements" lol
CNN's nic robertson reported that he saw that one of the coffins was empty...wonder how many more. apparently GaddafiTV reported last night that son Khamis was dead...no other info.
and now it looks as tho Yemen will finally get its freedom. Can Syria be far behind!
one anecdote that surfaced last week via the BBC was http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-12803282
before i left there was another joke circulating that the men of Tunisia were asking Libyans to crouch down so they could look to Egypt to see some real men. Libyans have more than earned their stripes - just hoping this is over soon and that the worst is over.
Did you think that it would all be clean, neat and tidy?
He didn't shout "home free!" when he landed.
Just like the French and US to kick someone at the very moment they are to a threat.
Plz explain how a plane on the ground is an immediate danger, especially since plane + landing normally = people getting out of the plane. The plz explain why they couldn't have chilled their heels 30 seconds for the guy to get out of the plane. When that plane landed (as in, was no longer FLYING) it ceased to be violating the No FLY Zone.
Now, by all means destroy the plane. I can totally get behind that. But let's face it, this pilot probably wasn't flying the plane because he REALLY REALLY REALLY loves Gaddafi. So there's no reason in that particular situation the French couldn't have gone with the equally valid option that resulted in minimum loss of life.
The great Libyan Lie
Nearly a month and a half ago the US made arms sales to the now hated leader of Libya and even sent its diplomats to kiss his ass over the last year. Not one word was mentioned of (killing his own people) was made by the Obama administration till after US bombs were dropped and now they act as if they always calmed it and as if there hands were clean. Lies we have seen many times.
Why wait till the last minute, till Gaddafi's forces were near victory to intervene? I will tell you why. The US and other Imperial powers wanted to let the rebels know that they and they alone could save the rebels and they owed their very existence to them and to defy what the US wants will result in stepping back and letting Gaddafi finish them off. The stick and carrot approach is a staple of US diplomacy and with the rebels not having clearly defined who they are and what their politics will be the US has made it clear it does not care as long as they do their bidding.
As far as who the US is backing it is not a surprise that there are abuses of women's rights and the hands of the rebels as they start to implement muslim law in the areas that they are in control of. One also has to wonder why they fly the flag of a monarch that was so hated that the Libyan people overthrew it? What are their politics, where is their manifesto and what forums of governing will they institute? The US could care less because all it sees is another puppet regime it can control.
Think the US cares and really wants to help? If you want to know what Libya's future will look like just look at Iraq and Afghanistan. Think after Abu Ghraib, the torture of Bradley Manning, the death for hundreds of thousands in Iraq that for one moment we give a shit about the people of Libya? What makes them so different that we would value them above our own solders that we deny have Gulf War Syndrome? How about Haiti where the US helped over throw a democratically elected leader and saw that he was sent to the ends of the earth in 2004 and when he returned in 2011 they fought it every inch of they way! That is correct Aristide was elected with 92% of the vote in 2000 and the US helped overthrow him. Put that in the light of in the 1990's when the US backed the first coup to get him out. When the military junta was driven out the US Government paid rent on their property and gave them sanctuary in the US at taxpayer expense. These people murdered 10's of thousands of citizens. Or how about South Africa? Where was French and US intervention then? Both the US and France were well documented to having dealings with the racist regime. OH BUT THEY REALLY CARE THIS TIME AND ARE GOING TO HELP THE LYBIAN PEOPLE! No I am afraid that the Libyan rebels by asking for and excepting the help of the US will become slaves to it.
As far as me supporting the rebels I have made a personal choice not too. It is all to easy to see someone with a gun in hand shouting for freedom and to believe that you must support them no matter what. It is how the good hearted people of the world get played. There are issues with Gaddafi to be sure but he is far more progressive than what the rebels has demonstrated themselves to be as yet. I also make this analogy as a true socialist in that I will back the most progressive element and so far with the current situation and US involvement ranges from politics as usual to supporting a long term exploitation of the Libyan people at the hands of Imperial power.
In fact it violates a unwritten rule of Air Pilots going back to WWI because even they knew it was wrong.
I suspect if they made a habit of waiting until pilots clear their planes before destroying them, the pilots would be ordered to sit in the planes until they go away.
The US and France have made it clear they have no issue taking Libyan planes out in the air.
So the missile had been fired while the plane was still in the air? Thank you.
How long should have the French pilot have waited? Has all the anti-aircraft been destroyed? No chance of a golden BB round from a 50 cal getting sucked into an engine?
Just reading this online on Forbes: Muammar Gaddafi drew a rare rebuke from the African Union calling for a transitional government and elections, while France declared Libyan Airspace under control after NATO agreed to take command of the NFZ (No-Fly Zone).
Also, from AJE Live (Al Jazeera English) Blog:
African Union is right now holding a conference in Addis Ababa. Representatives from EU and UN in attendance. Also attended by representatives from the Arab League and the Islamic Conference.
Also from BBC, 0934: More on the African Union meeting reported by AFP. AU head Jean Ping said the aim of the talks was to ''foster an exchange of views in order to take action on the situation in Libya and to seek the ways and means towards a swift resolution to the crisis''.
Also, sources from LibyaNewMedia:
Quoting, an update from Ajdabiya from reporters in Benghazi: Right now negotiations going on between Gaddafi forces and opposition, little fighting.
Apparently some Gaddafi forces want to retreat to Sirte with their weapons, opposition demands surrender without weapons.
Just in from Libya, TNC Government (TNC = Interim Transitional National Council Government for free Libya) spokesman Goka: The next few days will see more official recognition of the Libyan National Council by the international community.
And this is a link for you on what's happening in Misrata...may Allah be with these people. Ameen. Looking for Zintan and Misrata updates soon, news expected.
Also been seeing this everywhere I visit a lot, though I personally don't think everyone there feels the same.
I should explained better in my original post.
The french fighter locked and fired the missile when the gov fighter was still in the air.
The fighter was not strafed on the ground.
Kadaffi has one less highly trained officer in which to kill his own civilians.
A pilot without a plane can still pick up a rifle.
There is yet no proof that he is targeting civilians. If there was you would be seeing pictures. In fact all western TV has shown in the last month is his planes dropping bombs on rebel targets. Why do you say he is targeting civilians, because the TV says so? Remember he has supporters in everyone of those cities too.
Alright. No problem them, thanks for the clarification. My issue wasn't with killing the pilot, it was with killing the pilot if he didn't represent an immediate threat.
Also, most people are physically capable of picking up a rifle. That by itself isn't sufficient justification for killing them. I can pick up a rifle, and I think I understand the basic concept enough to figure out how to pull the trigger. That doesn't make me a just military target.
EDIT: Xenu Is Lord, I think he was referring to the rebels as civilians, which technically speaking isn't a correct use of the term anymore.
AJE Live: Libyan freedom fighters retake the key eastern city of Ajdabiya from Gaddafi forces. Quoting, '''There is no doubt about it , you can probably hear some of the celebrations behind me, Ajdabiya is in the hands of the opposition''.
AJE Live, news from members on other forum: Libyan freedom fighters have advanced 40 kilometres from the eastern town of Ajdabiya towards the key oil town of Brega in efforts to launch new offensives and have faced no resistance from Gaddafi forces.
Confirmed news coming in from Misrata, Libya #Feb17: Coalition fighter jets have bombed the ammunition stores in the Air Force Academy.
This is good news indeed.
I heard I witness reports lastnight from people fleeing ahjadabya that kadaffis soldiers were changing into civilian clothing,and stealing every car in the town.
They retreated westward.
I have also seen guncockpit footage of the outer ring of kadaffis forces around Misrata getting hammered by that RAF.
THIS IS SO BS! This brave woman was @ Tripoli hotel telling reporters about her RAPE by Gaddafi thugs & the thugs took her away! Thugs broke CNN camera & journalists are demanding to know where they took her!
Vid on website!
Another vid you can see her face desperation!
Another vid (Arabic) of the removal of Eman AlObeidy in the hotel by Gaddafi Thugs:
CNN report harassed & camera broken!
For Eman Al-Obaidi and all the women of Libya.
They will detain members of her family,and they will try to make her give a press statement saying that she was drunk/stoned and influenced by outside forces to do it.
Yes, been reading the same...the bastards. Gaddafi has a daughter, he lost an adopted one too to an airstrike. I wonder what she would think of Ms.Eman Al-Obaidi.
She would think she's a traitor and deserves it.
Kinda reminds me of what happens to Anti War protesters in the US when they disrupt the official government line.
You're right, it's pointless that I even wonder if she'd feel terrible about another Libyan woman being denied her dignity. She, after all, is her father's child. Cut from the same cloth.
But Ms.Obaidi is such a brave woman...she stormed into that hotel room full of the foreign press to tell them her story. Desperately hoping she's alive. I don't want to think of the alternative, being a woman.
FUCK Gaddafi & his thugs! Several of the pro Gaddafi hotel women employees accused her of being a traitor! They grabbed knives off tables & pointed them @ journalists! Rape has been used as a tool of oppression, power & control far too long! Rape to degrade the enemy's women!
And the US is just as guilty of these war crimes!
I shall place Eman's picture next to the one of Neda. I hope she makes it. Neda never had a chance. But a brave woman nevertheless.
You are so in my heart! As a survivor this has been hard & her bravery is beyond words! I am so upset that more wasn't done to surround her to prevent Gaddafi thugs from taking her away! I fear for her life & believe she's being tortured as I type & I feel so helpless! I know all we can do is to continue to let the WORLD know of her guts, dignity, honor & bravery! YES she's definitely the Neda of Libya. Please make sure of that!
Whenever men go to war women invariably suffer because of it. I have been surprised how the woman of the Middle East have been standing up and have even been instrumental in organizing opposition, protests, etc. despite the repressive rules coming from all sides, political, cultural and religious. For this woman to stand up and decry her rape so publically in a culture that would often see this as her shame and burden to carry, to remain quiet as it is a dishonour to her family speaks a whole lot to how this "revolution" is one of determination. People who feel they non longer have anything to lose but their life and honour are a force to be reckon with. I pray for all my sisters from another mother that you be safe but most of all that you one day be able to stand straight and proud, to feel the warmth of the sun on your beautiful faces, feel the breath of the wind on your cheeks and through your unbound hair, and be able to taste freedom from any forms of repression and oppression. These are your mothers, your sisters, your daughters, your wives. Their hands are the first to hold you, to caress you, to comfort you and yes even scold you.
I can't remember the author of this poem but it is one of my favorites;
"Be very careful.. If you make a woman cry.. Because God Counts her tears. The woman came out of A mans rib. Not from his feet to be walked on. Not from his head to be superior, But from the side... to be Equal. Under the arm to be protected, And next to the Heart to be loved..." author unknown.
All the fucking people on here that think change is easy.
People suck in case you haven't noticed.
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