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MANCHESTER NEW IDEAL ORG (PLANNING PERMISION) UK

Discussion in 'News and Current Events' started by getbeckyout, May 20, 2009.

  1. getbeckyout Member

    MANCHESTER NEW IDEAL ORG (PLANNING PERMISION) UK

    Hi we as parents are still fighting to get our daughter Becky and her boyfriend David Fryer (mentor) out of the CULT of Scientology.
    At present Graeme Wilson has written to our MP and stated our daughter has been suspended until we agree with Scientology, and as your all aware that will never happen.
    They have NOT suspended her boyfriend, and he is still an active member even though Becky is PTS and we are SP and proud of it. They still live together and intend getting married. We have no problems with that as long as they are both out of the CULT.
    We have proof that David Fryer is SELLING there BOOKS on there behalf and both of them have been order'd to join there front groups.
    They are involved in STOP DRUGGING CHILDREN, and there COMMISSION OF HUMAN RIGHTS.

    Back to the thread, sorry.

    As many will know the Cult of Scientology was given a building from one of its members costing £3.6 million and that was the Old trafford essence distillery.
    The Church of Scientology were refused planning permission, but are re'applying for the use off.

    We are against there NEW IDEAL ORG FROM OPENING in Manchester UK.
    We dont want our kids to contribute to this.


    MANCHESTER NEW IDEAL ORG (REQUEST FOR PLANNING PERMISION) UK

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    We are against there NEW IDEAL ORG FROM OPENING in Manchester UK.
    We dont want our kids to contribute to this.

    See Manchester Confidential - Testing time at Scientology

    Scientology centre planned - News - Manchester Evening News

    Scientology centre planned - News - Stockport Express

    Huge scientology centre planned - News - Metro News

    Please note you can add your comments on this site if you wish as i have done. Your comments can allso be added to the following sites.

    See http://www.manchesterconfidential.co.uk/in...wfkKHqiNwF6IHqi

    http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/new...it-user-comment

    http://www.stockportexpress.co.uk/news/s/1..._centre_planned

    http://www.metronews.co.uk/news/s/1017131_..._centre_planned

    The Church of Scientology recently bought the former Duckworth’s Essence Distillery on Chester Road, Old Trafford. The Grade II listed building was to be converted into apartments by Maghull Developments. Days after that purchase, the Church of Scientology snatched up the five-story building to convert it into a ‘place of worship and religious instruction’.

    But things at Scientology central have hit a snag. According to Simon Castle, Chief Planning Officer at Trafford Council, the Church of Scientology’s original application failed due to parking issues and the need for assurance that the listed building will not lose its ‘character’. So any immediate plans to open what would be the largest Scientology Centre in the North are currently on stand-by until new proposals are considered.

    The good people of Trafford may have to wait before learning all about how the essences of aliens have formed around people causing them spiritual harm. This is apparently all Xenu's fault.

  2. lothar Member

    Re: MANCHESTER NEW IDEAL ORG (PLANNING PERMISION) UK

    Great video and keeping tabs on Ideal Org scam.

    What has been effective at least in Atlanta zoning meetings is to bring up this concept of attendance when the cult tries to talk about the plans. It's a catch 22.

    On the on hand all their literature talks about all the staff and thousands of meat bodys the Ideal Org will pull in.. But on the other hand, "church" zoning is typically designed around a Sunday service with one large meeting room. So the usually try and get around the parking issues by saying they only have 100 active members.. But you can turn their own literature around on them and show all their bullshit expansion talk against them.

    Also the fact that they refurbish these buildings by cutting corners and using "religious workers" for slave labor.

    Also, there is this weird issue like the Montreal Ideal Org is facing. You ask them where they are going to come up with $4M to remodel.. and they say all their members will donate, then you say, that sounds like thousands of members to raise that kind of money, how will traffic and parking deal with thousands of people taking classes and coursework here daily.

    If they try and pretend they are only planning for 100 people, then ask what the hell is going on with 100 people needed a multi-million dollar bldg and that many square feet?
  3. getbeckyout Member

    Re: MANCHESTER NEW IDEAL ORG (PLANNING PERMISION) UK

    Thanks so true, thats Brilliant advise.
  4. outoforder Member

    Re: MANCHESTER NEW IDEAL ORG (PLANNING PERMISION) UK

    That is a very good point. Scientology claim 123,000 members in the UK in their 14 sites. That works out at 9,000 or so per site. Have they got enough parking for 9,000 members. Is the place big enough to hold 9,000 people. How close is this building to OLD TRAFFORD. What happens on match days.
  5. HellRazor Member

    Re: MANCHESTER NEW IDEAL ORG (PLANNING PERMISION) UK

    This ^^

    I'd suggest the OP read the relevant threads to get the details of the zoning meeting strategies:

    http://forums.whyweprotest.net/26-think-tank/zoning-meeting-scieno-property-what-do-42181/

    http://forums.whyweprotest.net/15-media/atlanta-sandy-springs-ga-no-want-ideal-org-44900/
  6. The Shadow Member

    Re: MANCHESTER NEW IDEAL ORG (PLANNING PERMISION) UK

    They had their planning permission REFUSED? Wow, that's a new one to me, and certainly you have an advantage over Northumbria Anonymous in that we didn't even find out about the building until they had already gotten planning permission.

    The best advice The Shadow can give is to canvass, canvass, CANVASS the people of Manchester. Take out adverts in the local papers, ANYTHING, but make sure people know what evil is lurking on their doorsteps. Your best weapon is written objections to the planning application, you get those by spreading the word.
  7. Herro Member

    Re: MANCHESTER NEW IDEAL ORG (PLANNING PERMISION) UK

    Something just occurred to me. And I'm probably waaaaay wrong on this because I know dick about economics, so please feel free to point out if I'm hilariously wrong about this. Ok, so has the housing market collapse in the US tanked property prices in general? And is the collapse of the housing market (and perhaps property prices) taking place outside of the US as well?

    Because if other countries are getting hit by this global recession in the same sectors as the US, that might explain why there is this sudden push to open ideal orgs (actually I don't know for sure if there actually has been a significant increase in new ideal org starts or if I'm just hearing about them more often. Obviously I would need to know that before I started any actual speculation here). If property prices are low right now, the CoS might be trying to buy up as much space for ideal orgs while it's cheap and hopefully make a profit on the properties when the market corrects upward. Is any of this accurate? Could someone that actually knows about these things comment? :)
  8. Xolo Member

    Re: MANCHESTER NEW IDEAL ORG (PLANNING PERMISION) UK

    Bloody hell thats gone up a bit, in 2001 they claimed 15,000.
    (about 10 times what the UK census results recorded the same year)
  9. lothar Member

    Re: MANCHESTER NEW IDEAL ORG (PLANNING PERMISION) UK

    This might be logical, but all the Ideal orgs pushes I have seen all started before early 2008. If you look at the newsletter or any list of the top Ideal Orgs, they all bought bldgs before 2008 and in some cases five years ago.

    There may be some newer orgs talking about starting Ideal Orgs, because now the property is cheap... but I can't think of which ones except some CA orgs.

    Ironically, places like ATL and Columbus (maybe Cincinnati) are going to be screwed. They bought the property at the height of real estate bubble. They must have been planning to sell the existing Org bldg to help finance the upgrade in sq ft. But now, they will be lucky to sell existing bldg let alone make any decent money on it. They bought high and will have to sell low.
  10. none given Member

    Re: MANCHESTER NEW IDEAL ORG (PLANNING PERMISION) UK

    I thought this was obvious. The old saying "It's almost impossible to lose money in real estate" and the bad economy make this a perfect investment for people who have money but don't know shit about business.
  11. ultrapoet Member

    Re: MANCHESTER NEW IDEAL ORG (PLANNING PERMISION) UK

    The Sandy Springs org (the new building they're trying to get a variance on) was purchased in 2005. So, no, I don't think they were cashing in on cheap real estate. They paid something like five million for it.

    Most of the neighborhood opposition has come from sources other than Anonymous. All we've had to do is show up and ask a few pointed questions and the neighbor ladies (and gentlemen) have been doing the rest.

    Scientologists’ move meets opposition
  12. DrLux Member

  13. DrLux Member

    Re: MANCHESTER NEW IDEAL ORG (PLANNING PERMISION) UK

    I've also just noticed on the bottom of the application summary, links and access to dox about it. Nice!
  14. shadowchaser Member

    Re: MANCHESTER NEW IDEAL ORG (PLANNING PERMISION) UK

    0 staff?
  15. Anonymous Member

    Re: MANCHESTER NEW IDEAL ORG (PLANNING PERMISION) UK

    Hi update re Manchester new ideal org, go on the link and and at the bottom of the form click on documents 3rd and 4th pdf files are interesting

    Planning Application Details

    Planning Application Associated Documents
    You are searching on Application ID: H/67391

    There are 4 documents associated with this planning application

    Click the View File link to open the document. You will need Adobe Reader to view the files.

    Filename File Type Document Type Last Modify Date View
    67391-Plan-111.pdf Plan Fri Jul 20 16:52:55 BST 2007 View File
    67391-Site Location-110.pdf Site Location Fri Jul 20 16:52:54 BST 2007 View File
    67391-Application Form-108.pdf Application Form Fri Jul 20 16:52:54 BST 2007 View File THESE TWO ARE INTERESTING
    67391-Supporting Info-109.pdf Supporting Info Fri Jul 20 16:52:54 BST 2007 View File DITTO

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------



    Contact Details
    Planning and Building Control
    Trafford MBC
    PO Box 96
    Waterside House
    Sale
    Cheshire M33 7ZF

    Tel: 0161 912 3149

    Email Contacts
    Planning Enquiries
    To comment or enquire about an application please use the following address: development.control@trafford.gov.uk

    Website Enquiries
    To request help or report a problem with the website please use the following address: eplanning@trafford.gov.uk





    Please wait whilst the request is processed...
    TextPlanning Application Details

    Application Progress
    Date Received 28-06-2007
    Target Date 27-09-2007
    Consultation Expiry Date 02-08-2007
    Committee Date
    Date Appeal Logged
    Appeal Decision

    Application Details
    Application Number H/67391
    Site Address Old Trafford Essence Distillery (former Duckworths building), Chester Road, Old Trafford
    Previous Address
    Ward Clifford
    Application Type Change of Use
    Development Type Change of use-buildings
    Proposal Change of use of building from essence distillery to place of worship and religious instruction (non-residential).
    Decision Withdrawn
    Case Officer Name Mrs R Coley
    Case Officer Telephone No. 0161 912 3149
    Case Officer E-mail
    Applicant Name Stephen Perry & Piers Springthorpe
    Applicant Address Waterworks Cottage, Belmont Road, Belmont Village, Bolton, BL7 9QP
    Agent Name Mr Peter Hodkin Hodkin & Company
    Agent Address 42-44 Copthorne Road, Felbridge, East Grimstead, West Sussex, RH19 2NS
    Dates
    Valid Date 28-06-2007 Target Date 27-09-2007
    Expiry date For Consultations 02-08-2007 Date Of Last Consultation
    Committee Date Decision Date
    Appeal Details
    Appeal Submitted No Date Appeal Logged
    Appeal Decision Appeal Decision Date
    Planning Constraints Details

    Application Details
    Application Number H/67391
    Location Old Trafford Essence Distillery (former Duckworths building), Chester Road, Old Trafford

    Conditions
    Reference EMPRESS
    Name Empress
    Constraint Type Conservation Area
    Status Effective
    Type Description Conservation Area
    Location Trafford
    Conditions
    Reference 1482-/3/10003
    Name Essence Factory
    Constraint Type Heritage/Conservation
    Status Effective
    Type Description Listed Buildings
    Location Chester Road Old Trafford Stretford
    Conditions
    Reference MAN-AIRPORT-90
    Name All buildings, structures, erections and works exceeding 90 metres
    Constraint Type Consultation Zone
    Status Effective
    Type Description Airport Safeguarding consultation zone
    Location Manchester International Airport
    Conditions
    Reference 103
    Name Old Trafford A
    Constraint Type Consultation Zone
    Status Effective
    Type Description Landfill sites and associated consultation zones
    Location north of Chester Road, Old Trafford

    Consultee Details

    Application Details
    Application Number H/67391
    Site Address Old Trafford Essence Distillery (former Duckworths building), Chester Road, Old Trafford
    Property Address

    Consultees Expiry Date for Consultee Consultations
    FAO - Geoff Williamson, Traffic Section, 2nd Floor, Waterside House, Sale Waterside Sale 02-08-2007
    Conservation Officer, Sale Town Hall
    Environmental Protection Division, Public Protection, Trafford MBC, Trafford Town Hall Talbot Road, Stretford Manchester 02-08-2007
    File Copy LHA Environmental, Protection 02-08-2007
  16. Anonymous Member

    Re: MANCHESTER NEW IDEAL ORG (PLANNING PERMISION) UK

    Greater Manchester stats in blue, national average in pink.According to recent crime statistics, the Greater Manchester region has some of the highest crime rates in the country. In Manchester itself, the crime rates are around double the national average (see image), and the region tops the chart in areas such as vehicle theft and homicide.

    Add to this the problems of drug abuse, illiteracy and general immorality, and the picture becomes quite bleak. This is exactly why an Ideal Org is needed in Manchester and needed fast. From our central org, we will have the means to actually do something about all of the problems mentioned above, in addition to all the other vital activities of an org.

    The Manchester Org field is already very active in a number of social betterment fields, including drug education lectures to school children, rehabilitation of criminals with correspondance self-improvement courses, volunteer help in the form of Volunteer Minister activities.
  17. Anonymous Member

    Re: MANCHESTER NEW IDEAL ORG (PLANNING PERMISION) UK

    Contact the Ideal Org Committee
    •Piers Springthorpe (Project Chairman) piers@manchesterideal.org
    •Richard Bromley (OT Committee Chairman) richard@manchesterideal.org
    •Lee Fairbanks (Events Organisation & Collections) lee@manchesterideal.org
    •Steve Langley (Fundraising I/C) steve@manchesterideal.org
    •Katie Duxbury (Awards) katie@manchesterideal.org
    •Steve Turnbull (Publishing)
    •Steve Parr (Goodwill Tour I/C) steveparr@manchesterideal.org
    •Peter Hughes (Goodwill Tours)
    •Graham Lloyd (Goodwill Tours & Auditor)
    •Abel Desilver (Goodwill Tours)
    •Joe Leach (Goodwill tours)
    •Martin Edgerton (Database I/C)
    •Michael Bromley (Secretary, Photography) michael@manchesterideal.org
    •Ian Saunderson (Email Marketing) ian@manchesterideal.org
    •Steve Perry (Fundraiser & Building location)
    The general email address is mail@manchsterideal.org

    Enquiries about this website: James@merrehill.co.uk

    Address
    OT Committee Manchester
    Ideal Org Project
    258 Deansgate
    Manchester
    M3 4BG

    tel: 0161 834 6463
  18. Anonymous Member

    Re: MANCHESTER NEW IDEAL ORG (PLANNING PERMISION) UK

    Why donate?
    Here are some quotes by L. Ron Hubbard about what your donation really means in terms of truly helping to improve the current state of not only the Manchester region, but of the whole planet.


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    "And now we're thinking in terms of new buildings and designing new buildings all over the world. In other words, we've kept it there for a long time; now we're going to keep it there with exclamation points....

    "Anyway, housing these Central Organizations, making these stay there, making them stay solvent and keeping their technology straight has been quite a job. And that hat and its responsibility has been shared by a great many people....

    "It has been my ambition for a very long time to be able to say to any human being on Earth that they could walk up to and organization of Scientology, whether it was a center, a city office or a Central Organization - be able to walk in the front door and at the end of some, well you could even say a nebulous number of hours of processing, emerge out of that front door Clear....

    "You should support your organizations in your area....

    "We Scientologists have got to pull together."
    Lecture: Your Scientology Orgs and What They Do for You


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    "Your donation is supporting the greatest hope that man has ever had and the churches and people vital to its survival and increase.

    "Your donation does what it takes to get the job done.

    "Thank you."
    The Auditor, 1970, "What Your Donations Buy"


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    "If we win, you will win. The kids in school will grow up. And we'll have a world without criminality, without war.

    "We mean it. And the only slim chance this planet has rests on a few slim shoulders, overworked, underpaid and fought - the Scientologist.

    "Later on, if we make t, what will be your answer to this quetion?

    "'Did you help?'"
    The Auditor Issue 9, "Five Years"



    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    "Creative and constructive imaginings about the future are not untruths but are postulated new realities."
    Science of Survival


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    "All great cathedrals began their building by the placement of a single stone. The building unit of any great society is the individual."
    HCOB 25 Feb. 1960, SCIENTOLOGY CAN HAVE A GROUP WIN


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    "An Org cannot expand without premises being provided, salvaged and cared for."
    HCO PL 8 May 1966RA, LRH COMMUNICATOR, NO OTHER HATS


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    "THE PUBLIC KNOWS US BY OUR MEST"
    HCO PL 2 Nov. 1970 I, THE THEORY OF SCIENTOLOGY ORGANIZATIONS
  19. DrLux Member

    **Re: MANCHESTER NEW IDEAL ORG (PLANNING PERMISION) UK**

    Here is an e-mail I just received from the Planning Department at Trafford Council regarding the above issue of planning permission:

    Dear Ms *******************,

    Thank you for your enquiry concerning the above. I apologise for the delay in my response.

    I can confirm that the planning application H/67391 for a "Change of use of building from essence distillery to place of worship and religious instruction (non-residential)" was withdrawn in September 2007 by the applicant and therefore was not determined. However, the application was recommended for refusal by the case officer at the time, prior to this withdrawal. The case officer's recommended reasons for refusal were: -

    1. The proposed change of use of this building to a place of worship and religious instruction, due to the substandard nature of the parking and access arrangements and the overall lack of dedicated parking associated with the site, would lead to traffic congestion and hazard, particularly on Wright Street, to the detriment of the free flow of traffic and highway safety. This would be contrary to Proposals ENV25, D1 and D2 of the Revised Trafford Unitary Development Plan.

    2. The proposed change of use of this building to a place of worship and religious instruction, due to the lack of dedicated parking associated with the site, would lead to significant pressure for on street parking to the detriment of the amenity of residential properties on Chester Road. This would be contrary to Proposals ENV25, D1 and D2 of the Revised Trafford Unitary Development Plan.

    Please note however that if the application had not been withdrawn that is would have been determined by the Planning Committee and therefore the outcome may have been different to the case officer's recommendation.

    There has neither been an appeal, nor a new application for planning permission, as the outcome would still be the same.

    I hope that this information answers your query, however, if you have any further queries regarding the site or the above information, please do not hesitate to contact me.

    Regards,

    Victoria Ward
    Senior Planning Officer (North Area Team)
    Planning and Building Control
    Trafford Council

    ***Looks like Manchester $cilons are a bit screwed!***
  20. basil Member

    Re: MANCHESTER NEW IDEAL ORG (PLANNING PERMISION) UK

    So it's been turned down and there seems very little chance of them being granted permission there - yet they're still raising money for it two years after they withdrew their application?

    Sounds a bit like fraud to me if it's never gonna happen.

    Mind you, with the demise of Piers pushing it ahead the whole thing may - metaphorically - come crashing down anyway.
  21. The Shadow Member

    Re: MANCHESTER NEW IDEAL ORG (PLANNING PERMISION) UK

    Manchester Scis haven't applied for new planning permission yet?

    That's interesting, neither have ours. And ours have been told by the council that if they move in under 'place of religious worship', they will be in breach of the planning permission because they ain't legally recognised as a religion yet. So they're sitting on the current planning permission (which was not withdrawn or rejected) but they can't move in.

    I still reckon the Scis are expecting some turnaround in the 'religious recognition' and are just waiting for it.
  22. anonymous1312 Member

    Re: MANCHESTER NEW IDEAL ORG (PLANNING PERMISION) UK

    Yeah, the removal of two of the key players in the UK ideal org scam - Piers in Manchester and Gaiman in Birmingham should have some impact. We shouldn't be complacent though, there are others still out there.
  23. basil Member

    Re: MANCHESTER NEW IDEAL ORG (PLANNING PERMISION) UK

    Useful to know so we can keep fighting it.
  24. getbeckyout Member

    Re: MANCHESTER NEW IDEAL ORG (PLANNING PERMISION) UK

    This is turning out to be a good summer for all in the real world.:D
  25. Anonymous Member

    Re: MANCHESTER NEW IDEAL ORG (PLANNING PERMISION) UK

    To date, Brum CoS haven't submitted any planning applications either. (The developer who took part in the division of the Pitmaston estate did apply to convert and demolish some buildings on their own half, but were refused permission.)
  26. basil Member

    Re: MANCHESTER NEW IDEAL ORG (PLANNING PERMISION) UK

    ... and hopefully soon to be out as well, as I'm sure you'd agree.
  27. Yoni Alter Member

    Re: MANCHESTER NEW IDEAL ORG (PLANNING PERMISION) UK

    Applying for permits is out ethics. That's the only explanation I have as to why they could possibly be so inept at doing it.
  28. Anonymous Member

    Re: MANCHESTER NEW IDEAL ORG (PLANNING PERMISION) UK

    They again have issues, just like recently in the USA, with a disconnect between their real numbers and the stated numbers. They pretend to be a church which has sunday services, and pretend to have hundreds of members, and the city planners are taking them at their word and saying "sorry, you don't have enough parking for that". CoS can't admit the reality that they're a glorified book-club and hobby psychiatry outfit with very few members, out of pride or something, or perhaps afraid to not get religious recognition. Nice Catch 22 they've made for themselves there.
  29. basil Member

    Re: MANCHESTER NEW IDEAL ORG (PLANNING PERMISION) UK

    Also, if they do admit they only have 20 not 200 members, so they don't really need that parking after all, why do they then need such a big building?
  30. Lorelei Member

    Re: MANCHESTER NEW IDEAL ORG (PLANNING PERMISION) UK

    Haven't you heard? Scientology is the fastest growing religion on the planet! And due to Scilon math, every warm body claiming to be a Scilon counts as at LEAST 442 wogs! I suspect they count their body thetans separately.

    Thus 20 Scilons equal at LEAST 8840 people. Know you NOTHING?! *wink*

    Oh, and bigger buildings are more expensive and worth more, so buying them builds up DM's real estate portfolio...I mean, gives all 8840 of them just enough room to squeeze in there to work on "clearing the planet." Parking, pfft. Who needs that?! They just demonstrate their Super OT Powahz and exteriorize over there and communicate with each other (and cats, guinea pigs, car engines and goldfish) telepathically. It saves on mobile phone service, bus fare, and petrol costs.
  31. getbeckyout Member

    Re: MANCHESTER NEW IDEAL ORG (PLANNING PERMISION) UK

    Scientology has its expansion statistics out
    by louannelee
    Share this on Twitter - Scientology has its expansion statistics out Thu Jul 02, 2009 at 06:20:29 PM PDT
    The Church of Scientology International published its 2009 statistics. Notably everything is compared to a five-year-range which might be an odd way of counting, but impressive nevertheless. What do you have to say about it?

    louannelee's diary :: ::
    (Source: Scientology Today)

    - The Church’s property holdings internationally have more than doubled in the last 5 years. The combined size of Church premises increased from 5.6 million square feet in 2004 to 11 million square feet in 2009.

    - The Church has acquired 66 buildings since 2004 in major population centers around the world. For example: Berlin, New York, Greater Los Angeles area.




    - The Church has completed 401,003 square feet of construction of new premises in the last 5 months. It currently has under construction another 475,887 square feet, including Churches in Washington D.C., Las Vegas, Quebec, Mexico City, Brussels, Rome and Tel Aviv.

    - There are 8,071 Scientology Churches, Missions and groups in 165 nations, double the number five years ago.

    - 80 million L. Ron Hubbard books and lectures on Dianetics and Scientology have been sold in the last decade, compared to 5.6 million in the prior decade, and 60 of that 80 million have been sold in the last two years-more than during the first 50 years of Dianetics and Scientology combined.

    - The number of individuals completing auditing and training has doubled since 2007.

    - Since the Church undertook to publish and reproduce its scriptural materials in-house in 2007, the average price of Mr. Hubbard’s books and lectures sold has decreased dramatically.

    - There were 12.4 million visitors to the Scientology website in the last year alone coming from 234 countries, with 23 million video views.

    - 4.5 million pages of L. Ron Hubbard’s writings have been translated in the last 10 years alone compared to a total of 359,459 for the prior 50 years, making him the most translated author in history-according to the Guinness Book of World Records.

    - Today there are 196,000 Scientology Volunteer Ministers worldwide-there were 45,000 in 2004. Volunteer Ministers helped over 1.4 million people in the last year alone, a 300% increase over the 2004 figure of 550,000 people helped.
  32. basil Member

    Re: MANCHESTER NEW IDEAL ORG (PLANNING PERMISION) UK

    LOL

    A quick Google shows there to be anywhere between 185 and 195 countries in the world, depending on your political views and recognition.

    Where on earth - literally - did they find another 30 countries that can't be identified on any normal map?

    lrn2math

    550,000 x 3 = 1.65 million. Their figure is more like 270% but I guess isn't so impressive.


    According to Alexa, the average visitor to the Scientology site is

    - 18-24
    - Male
    - No children
    - College education
    - Visiting from "home"

    Doesn't that sound rather like Anon to you?
  33. Anonymous Member

    Re: MANCHESTER NEW IDEAL ORG (PLANNING PERMISION) UK

    It looks like they bought a lot of real estate during the bubble. This is pleasing.
  34. timthephoto Member

    Re: MANCHESTER NEW IDEAL ORG (PLANNING PERMISION) UK

    a pleasant thought, in the usa, i'm led to believe.. that taxes paid on a building are calculated by it's purchase price. so buying property at the top of the market means their taxes are high too???
  35. Anonymous Member

    Re: MANCHESTER NEW IDEAL ORG (PLANNING PERMISION) UK

    Why is it pleasing? Little Davey and his "church" were given the buildings...he's not lost any money - he got all the real estate for free.
  36. AnotherSock Member

    Re: MANCHESTER NEW IDEAL ORG (PLANNING PERMISION) UK

    You act surprised at the Cult failing to open their ideal orgs... but I think you misunderstand the purpose of these buildings. They're not supposed to be completed; they're supposed to be an aspirational goal, or a work-in-progress, so that they can be used as a symbol for why Cult parishioners should reach for their cheque books. Again.

    $cientology isn't about clearing the planet. The executives in the cult know that the Tech doesn't work; they just want to squeeze money out of the well-meaning, brainwashed mass of members. If the Super Power Building had been completed, as promised, there's be a lot of Culties starting to wake up, wondering "where's my super powers?" If the Manchester Ideal Org is completed, Cultists would expect it to start improving life in Manchester... which it can't and won't.

    The ideal status of all Cult projects is close enough to demand "one more big push" from the cultists... but far enough from completion that the damn thing never actually opens. If they did manage to actually complete a building, they'd exhibit their failure to the whole world, since they wouldn't be able to staff it, wouldn't be able to attract enough 'fresh meat' to justify it, and they'd have to spend money on wasteful things like actually doing the building work, furnishing the building and paying 'wages'. In other words, a high-ranking $cilon is probably delighted to be able to blame their failure on 'religious persecution' from the planning authorities.

    Getting the public to object to a Cult building is no bad thing... but getting Cult parishioners to see how this scam has been endlessly re-enacted ever since DM seized power would be a lot more effective.
  37. timthephoto Member

    Re: MANCHESTER NEW IDEAL ORG (PLANNING PERMISION) UK

    as ^, exactly.

    maybe handwritten notes to members of the OT committee's "explaining their position"?
  38. MongoLloyd Member

    Re: MANCHESTER NEW IDEAL ORG (PLANNING PERMISION) UK

    Believe it or not, the amount of money Scilons have to donate is finite. And people will get tired if they keep giving and don't get much back.

    Buildings cost money - increased taxes, increased utility bills, etc. Yet they don't bring in much money to the cult. (whatever you want to estimate the market/recruitment value of having a nice building to, it's still not a heck of a lot)
  39. basil Member

    Re: MANCHESTER NEW IDEAL ORG (PLANNING PERMISION) UK

    A building can start off looking nice but if there isn't the income to maintain it, it will soon look shabby both inside and outside. Do these sci's never wonder why they're only ever using 2% of the building's capacity?

    Or is it all part of the "future planetary clearing" stuff that they're making big in the equivalent of what a christian might call "in faith" that the place will be full to capacity and beyond "soon"?
  40. JohnnyRUClear Member

    Re: MANCHESTER NEW IDEAL ORG (PLANNING PERMISION) UK

    It really is quite hilarious. Hoisted on their own lying petard.

    Property values for tax purposes are periodically adjusted.

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