Discussion in 'Independent Scientology' started by Anonymous, Jan 10, 2013.
o rly? come for/to me bb
If Marty is beginning not to distinguish much between "Scientology, Inc." and "Scientology" itself, that's a good thing. While I've continued to be pretty unimpressed with Marty's bullshit, it's still possible there's a human being somewhere under that gigantic pile of bullshit at the bottom of an Olympic sized swimming pool of douche.
Mosey's breaking him of it, bless her heart.
So.... Steve Hall silent in all this?
I don't know if the following is true, and if true it is certainly subject to change, but:
Wow. I guess I need to go over there and look around, because that is yet another "fuck you, don't let the door hit your ass on the way out" post of Marty's.
There is no love in Scientology, that is the problem.
Edit: also lol "klatch" - dumbass doesn't realize a blog is social media, and he's got the biggest klatch around.
Steve Hall finally recognized the setup. Lucky for him, cuz Marty's all "This is a thread with over 300 well-reasoned comments to date. Yours is the first one (to say 2.0 KSWhateverthefuck)."
Marty's ditching the crackpots and going Newage, because that's EXACTLY where old hippies disillusioned with a cult go. Oprah-ology.
^Look forward to the next Oscar-nominated Thread title - 'Marty the Aromatherapist'
Marty uses the Tone Scale, and doesn't want low toned people on his blog.
The good news Natalie and her post is clearly an absolute winner, even with voting buttons gone.
Perhaps honesty, humility, self-deprecation, humor, love, care and willingness to learn,
among other things, are the true super powers, after all.
Natalie January 10, 2013 at 4:24 pm
Even three years after leaving Scientology, I’m still pulling off layers of what I now realize was cult indoctrinated think. From the age of 5, I was indoctrinated to think a certain way, believe a certain way, and behave a certain way. I spent my teen years in the Sea Org, which took the indoctrination into a whole new level.
During my whole life, studying another doctrine, or religion was forbidden and unacceptable.
We couldn’t even watch or listen to a program that was critical of Scientology without getting in trouble or risking our “eternal freedom.”
There are lots of valuable sources of information out there, that help people. My viewpoint is that I need to be able to think with any datums and determine whether or not I find them to be true or helpful. I’m done accepting or believing something without my own examination of it, because of an unquestioning obedience to its source.
We were all in a cult. We all had different experiences, some of them similar. My viewpoint is that Scientology became a cult the minute the Sea Org was started, that’s my viewpoint.
The road to healing from that and moving on is different for each of us.
It’s my viewpoint that when someone gets their panties in a twist over someone else not still strictly following Scientology doctrine, it is because they are still operating off of a cult mentality that there is ONLY ONE WAY, ONLY ONE SOURCE. It is possible to follow Scientology to the letter yourself, and let others live their lives as they see best, even if it doesn’t align perfectly with Scientology, and vice versa.
I have no problem with my friends who continue to practice Scientology outside of the cult. If we get along, enjoy each others company and aren’t assholes to each other, I could care less what religion you practice.
Like I said, three years later I’m still peeling off layers of untruths and discovering who I am without the indoctrinated cult think. I do know that I have more compassion for my fellow man then I did when I was in Scientology. I am way less of a judgmental bitch.
Today I take pride in being what the cult refers to as being open minded. I’m not perfect, nor do I constantly do the right thing, but I’m really okay with that. I’m just trying to get it right most of the time, and learn from my mistakes. I’m no longer defined by how someone else chooses to label me, in or out of the cult.
I’m even enjoying some of my neurosis. In the cult I was OT 4 and constantly being hammered about behaving as an OT, which mostly entailed being indoctrinated into pretending I didn’t have the issues I had, but that all was perfect.
I get sick, I have allergies and even an auto-immune disorder. I can’t sleep if my closet door is open, and I like to read books about the zombie apocalypse. I love having happy hour with friends, and I’m not great with money. I’m a compulsive nail bitter and I think gays should be able to get married. I grew up in a cult, and lived to tell about it.
Three years out of Scientology, I’ve learned that I’m good at being perfectly imperfect, and I enjoy it. I’m also great at getting things done, finding the silver lining, and being there for those I care about. I’m madly in love with my stud muffin of a husband, and am happy with the people my kids are becoming.
Marty writes about Scientology, the Tao and a host of other topics. He posts music videos, and shares books that he reads. Sometimes I agree with what he says, sometimes I don’t. What I do know is he communicates from the heart, in an effort to help by sharing his own experience, thoughts and viewpoint. What he says won’t resonate with everyone one every time. It doesn’t have to, we are NO LONGER IN A CULT that requires blind obedience.
Mike, Marty and others catch a lot of shit from not just the cult, but also other individuals from time to time. I’ve only known them outside of the cult. Both have helped me and my family over the last 3 years, especially when we first left. Not Mike, Marty or one Indie friend of mine has yet to require of even insinuate that I should still be practicing Scientology. Why would I then judge how they or anyone chooses to practice it outside of the cult?
My rule of thumb is “Is it causing harm to someone else?” The Church of Scientology is in the businesses of creating ex-Scientologist, breaking up families, and looking like extremist assholes, causing more harm than good.
Based on my experience with the friends I have who are practicing Scientology outside of the cult, to one degree or another, they are happy and are not on a mission to take over the world, creating robots who only obey. If I came across someone who was trying to turn me into a robot, I would just keep moving. No dog ever peed on a moving car.
I guess what I’m saying is that we are no longer in a cult. You don’t have to agree with everything Marty says or does, I don’t. You can always stop following his blog. I doubt your facebook friends will be sent messages to disconnect, nor will you then have your trash gone through by PIs if you do so.
Regardless of what anyone else thinks, If we think with information and decide for ourselves what is useful and what is not, we should get by pretty well. You don’t need to be a dick about it. What works for me may not work for someone else. We each have the freedom to evaluate and decide for ourselves, it’s one of the perks of not being in a cult.
It’s not rocket science. We have a choice about who we spend our time with or listen to. You don’t have to be a Proctologist to recognize an asshole when you see one.
What is happening is open debate. This is of course detrimental to Scientology. But it's beneficial to former or current Scientologists. All of these democratic methods such as doubting, discussing, allowing for differences of opinion and dissent are opposite to KSW and what we see here is probably the reason why KSW was necessary from Hubbard's point of view. If KSW is actually necessary as a protective measure it implies that Scientology as a collection of concepts is brittle and vulnerable to critical scrutiny. I'm curious if and how Independent Scientologists and Freezoners can answer this problem without dropping Scientology as a more or less coherent set of ideas. I hope it's not by consciously embracing fascism (censorship, need for a leader, oppressive tactics and so on).
Wow, Natalie nailed it in that awesome post. Good on her! 3 years later and she not only woke up completely, she gets the bigger picture in its entirety and realizes the extent of how bad it really was.
this is getting good
The confidence in their own omniscience of people who type on message boards tasks me. It tasks me.
I refuse to believe that Marty doesn't have an angle that will benefit him in some way.
Until I see otherwise, I still think it's not him "waking up". What I mean is, I don't think he was on board with a lot of this BS for quite a while now and he knew it was BS, but had to let people know this slowly and gradually. On a gradient level if you will . lol
IDK, he was a pretty ruthless guy in COS and I have to stand behind " a leopard doesn't change his spots" scenario until I see otherwise.
^^This. In computer programming, there is a phrase called "refactoring a legacy codebase" where you take a a really old mission critical software application, break it down into small modules and retool it incrementally to modernize it without a doing a fullblown rewrite/replacement.
This is what I think Marty is doing, repackaging the tech with a slightly different spin so that it can survive the collapse of the mother church.
But whether or not he realizes that is what he is doing, I'm not sure on.
The Marty Refactor Project= the MRF
does sound about right
I believe Rathbun's relationship to clamology is complex. It's really all he know, but on some level he must also know it is responsible for a lot of his problems. At the same time, it must be impossible to interact rationally with the wog world without starting to change perspective, whether this way or that.
I don't think second guessing him is even worthwhile. I'll hold off my judgment until I see which way this rolls. As Leafs said above, actual discussion is the best thing that can happen. That remains true no matter what Rathbun's really up to. The ringside view is excellent too. Pass me the bottle opener, RightOn, please!
Hey, bottle openers, I remember those!
Steve Hall and his buddies want a replica of CoS, but one where they hold the power and call the shots. If Marty really does see himself in a Martin Luther role, then it's worth remembering the incredible changes which happened to Christian doctrine because of the Reformation.
There was a guy named Bob Minton who did this too!
Michael Priv's story:
Scientology was a cult long before the Sea Org was begun. The Fair Game Law, Disconnection, and Security Checking, critical = crimes, justified deception, attacking, anti-Scientology = no rights, Hubbard as revered guru (the LRH bronze busts date from 1963), "This is a cold blooded and factual account of your last sixty trillion years," etc. all came years before the Sea Org (Most as far back as 1951 and 1955).
The M&M Show is just as KSW as the Steve Hall/Jim Logan/Helmut Flasch/Michael Priv faction . . . only the Ms are smarter in the way they go about it - not quite so open, relying instead on deception and Sun Tzu's tactics like doing one thing overtly and the exact opposite covertly. The M&M Show is still lying about Xenu and Hubbard and history, as well as DAing OG critics and Exes. Who knows what's really going in this soup of crazy but it ain't as it appears and its worse than you think. Occam's razor is blunted by Scientology. Perhaps its about creating the illusion of various camps so as to "mock up" the perception that there is choice in the Scientology "free market" when all the time things are still being centrally managed. Perhaps they really have fallen out, providing the M&M Show with another "enemy" to rally the remaining faithful and set an example to any others who are dithering about getting with the program. Hard to say but well worth the popcorn.
In the meantime, what else can Marty say? How about: "sorry".
It's not "open debate."
Rathbun approves or disapproves every post.
Plenty are disapproved.
Quite a few people - especially those who don't include flowery praise of Rathbun in their posts when daring to dissent - are banned altogether.
Don't be stupid.
Yeah and you can chuck the Black Death in too because I know you can't simplify the change down to a single event or person. Point is that Marty's the one tinkering with doctrine so we might end up with a sect of Scientology which doesn't view Hubbard as infallible.
If I'm going to flog the analogy, Steve Hall just wants to be a Cardinal in a different Papal Court.
I hate to tell you this, but people like you are a reason why Scientology lies. Because lying works.
The printing press, the plague and host of other events in society at large, including a more dictatorial and manically papal leadership and intense fund-raising to rebuild St.Peter’s, contributed to the Reformation. And Martin Luther wasn't the only one leading it – but the Germans were the most angered by the “regging” for the Roman church. (Henry VIII only wanted to divorce Catherine of Aragon…. )
Sorta similar to today? The interwebz is the modern printing press, eh? Members pissed about regging to build great cathedrals?
Marty wants to pretend he’s Martin Luther who tinkered with the doctrine of the time – whatever. As long as he stays away from the mindfuck, abuse and money-grabbing he can believe in the flying monkeys for all I care. As far as the others go, from what I’ve seen they want a coup d’etat and are a bunch of wannabes looking for a leader cause they don’t have the ability or the balls to do it themselves.
Well, they still won't have the resources of the mother cult. They can KSW all they won't, it won't really work on people who has tasted the alternatives on this age of the internet.
Fair enough. Maybe it's just that the content has changed and nothing else. I don't know about the approval policy at his blog, just looking at the content my impression was that of an open debate within the independent community with a range of different opinions. I still think the kind of debates that happen at his blog are something that would never be allowed inside organized Scientology and thus a step in the right direction.
There has *never* been an open debate on the Moving on Up a Little Higher blog.
However, the illusion of there being an open debate is encouraged.
It's good PR.
Well I certainly didn't expect the Stevish Inquisition!
Yeppers! And it is why Martyr clearly shows, that even outside of the 'church', 'standard tech' from 'original source' is not to be ignored or taken lightly.
Thanks Martyr! You keep showing the Nony's and the world that your tone scale is 'standard tech'..
"In any event, any person from 2.0 down on the Tone Scale should not have, in any thinking society, any civil rights of any kind, because by abusing those rights he brings into being arduous and strenuous laws which are oppressive to those who need no such restraints."
"There are only two answers for the handling of people from 2.0 down on the Tone Scale, neither one of which has anything to do with reasoning with them or listening to their justification of their acts. The first is to raise them on the Tone Scale by un-enturbulating some of their theta by any one of the three valid processes. The other is to dispose of them quietly and without sorrow."
And the next installment.....
Yes, because a read through of my posting history shows I'm a Marty fan and a bit wishy-washy about Scientology in general.
Loosen the tin foil a bit and realise that even though I'm not seeing a conspiracy in this latest Indie drama, I still think Marty peddles poison.
TL;DR...just perusing for nuggets of exposure leik
"Scientology works wonderfully when it integrates with society, civilization, and the philosophies and religions of others. Scientology harms when it seeks to segregate from society, civilization, and the philosophies and religions of others."
Uh, Marty, you silly fuck. Hubbard NEVAH spoke of "intergration", just INFILTRATION and taking control.
To whit...Target/Defense policy-for instance
Tell us Marty, how do you get 'intergration' from scientology, when 'source' himself commands to "taking over"?
Yer doing it right Martyr!
From the SP viewpoint that is
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