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Marty: An Open Letter to Tony Ortega

Discussion in 'Independent Scientology' started by Zhongjianren, Sep 28, 2011.

  1. AnonLover Member

    cuz by their own admissions, the tech utterly failed to keep them from seeing what was coming when the writing was on the wall in gigantic letters (mission holder debacle & hubbard's death), and from becoming the monsters that LRH was an expert at producing... the REAL VFPs of scientology teachings.

    They can play the blame game and spin PR all they want, and they are still poster models of what is ultimately wrong with the contradictions in what the tech is supposed to do vs. what it actually produces in the long run.
    • Like Like x 4
  2. Anonymous Member

    Marty is a nutter. There is no way he is EVER going to admit that he wasted 30 years of his life worshiping...a nutter and his even nuttier "religion". Marty's ego is currently in the way of his owning this mistake, forgiving himself for being....gullible, and moving on. He will hold fast to the illusion that LCon was a good thing until the grave.
  3. Anonymous Member

    fify
  4. Disco Necked Member

    • Like Like x 4
  5. PodPeople Member

    Heh. I thought I said that, but hey, you sez it better.
  6. muldrake Member

    I think both Tony and Martay know exactly what's going on. Martay has to posture for his posse, but he knows what's up and he isn't dumb enough to alienate a person he knows is still one of his best media contacts. I find it quite telling that Martay ally Mike Rinder nearly simultaneously issued a conciliatory message describing Tony as an "ally."

    I'll have to split with some people here and note that both MRs and Tony, in his own conciliatory recommendation of Rathbun's attack on his article, have handled a fundamental disagreement in a sensible and pragmatic manner. Both "sides" know they'll be dealing with each other in the future and want to maintain cordial relations, if not complete agreement.
    • Like Like x 7
  7. Anonymous Member

    This is to Tony's credit. MR needs to maintain some level of positive relations with Tony. Tony's going to get along just fine either way.
  8. DeathHamster Member

    We also don't know how much Marty is playing to his audience. He's set himself up as the rebel defender of 100% Standard Tech. He can't NOT defend Hubbard and still be the doorway for people who want make the baby step from CoS to CoS Lite.
    • Like Like x 2
  9. Anonymous Member

    fify
  10. Xinjifar Member

    Marty is doing what he's been doing all along; his best to be 'all things to all men' by juggling mystery sandwiches. In that vein, his positions and stories change on a revolving basis, depending on who he's playing to or trying to influence. It works as far as his different audiences remain seperate and don't compare notes; which he's been surprisingly able to accomplish. Where it breaks down is when the different stories are compared.

    That's when it becomes obvious that not even such basic elements as his 'goals' or whether he's cooperating with the cops are 'simple' answers or even have answers at all.

    Does Marty want Miscavige 'out'? Arrested? Tried? Removed? His most recent 'statement' is no. Yet most people seem to have come away with the 'impression' that he does, even that he's working on it in the background and people should just trust him.

    Is Marty spilling the beans (or even the vienna sausage on a toothpick) to the FBI? To judge by his most recent pronouncement re: the non-investigation going on, you would think so. After all, it's the FBI that told him the investigation *isn't*. Yet, despite arch allusions to his 'secret' work and uncontradicted assumptions by many (martyites and non-martyites alike) there is no basis for that belief.

    Pick anything you 'know' about Marty and you'll find the same thing. Nothing. Pick anything anybody thinks about Marty, and then try to find out *why* they think that and compare it to the exact opposite someone else thinks.

    There's a lot of smoke and mirrors and smoke blowing going on.

    Personally, I'm not worried about Marty 'converting' Tony (like the martyites wish), but, I do worry about how Marty had become the 'primary' (in the sense of 'first') source for a lot of the Scientlogy related stories over the past months. I'm a little relieved to see that falling off some now and 'other' sources kicking off stories, such as the SF Weekly and Birmingham stories.

    Unfortunately, while Tony isn't solely dependent on Marty Rathbun for his viewpoint, the 'balance' seems to be coming from non-martyites whose viewpoint is that Marty is 'useful' and worth supporting, at least pragmatically and actually see him as a valuable tool to undercutting Miscavige as a 'first step', but are willing to give 'Scientology' as a whole a pass. Because it's 'pragmatic'. Yeah; right :)

    It'd be nice to know what anybody thinks Marty Rathbun has done to 'hurt' Miscavige, beyond calling him names.
    • Like Like x 4
  11. exOT8Michael Member

    Anyone who gives Marty credibility is being played.
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  12. DeathHamster Member

    I was chipping at my news backlog, and tripped over this one that made laugh (and snarl):
    The irony (and elrony), it burns!
    • Like Like x 4
  13. Anonymous Member

    He might be a nutter, or just a person grasping at straws - being an indie helps him generate an income. It's not like he has an education or has many other job prospects. So working as an auditor is probably ain't that bad.
    • Like Like x 1
  14. Krautfag Member

    Hi Zinj, first of all, think back a couple of years and how everyone would have rejoiced to read ANY story about Co$ in a mainstream mag, no matter what source. We are getting spoiled a little :p

    And secondly, I guess the more appropriate describtion would be "somewhat useful to get the gung-ho Hubbardites out and tactically not worth fighting". But it's far from giving Scientology a pass.
    • Like Like x 1
  15. Xinjifar Member

    Ahem; speak for yourself? Major publications have been running Scientology stories since the '50s, when 'Readers Digest' ran its first. And, of course, Time Magazine's story and further travails are legendary. Tony himself wrote his first Scientology story back around '96 I think. 60 Minutes ran stories; the A&E channel did. The Clearwater Sun was the paper of record for the original invasion of Clearwater by 'United Churches'.

    Bob Lobsinger published dozens of stories and editorials about Scientology and its front group Narconon. There have been hundreds of stories over the years. And, I'm grateful for all of them; because they add up.

    No; I'm not 'spoiled'. I'm grateful for every one of the stories; even those that didn't go far enough or got things wrong. Because, thankfully, we now have *all* of them.

    Scientology opposition did *not* begin in 2008. And, nowdays we have all of that 'public record' to work with. But, we don't have that record because people decided to be 'pragmatic' and soften the truth; we have it *despite* it.

    So, I'm not even disappointed in Tony's series. It's been good. But, it hasn't been good because it coddled Marty and bent over backwards to appease the 'Independent Scientologists' to keep them on the string. It's been good in as much as it's *avoided* doing so. And, that's pretty good.

    Saying that I've worried about Tony allowing himself to be used by Marty Rathbun for purposes very different than exposing the *truth* about Scientology is true. I have been. To take a single example, the story about John Connally, purported 'OSA Agent' was, as far as I can tell, based *soley* on the origination by Marty Rathbun and served as a 'followup' to Marty's accusation on his own 'MartyWorld'.

    Was it true? I have no idea. Nor do you. I just know that Marty wanted the story published and it happened. And, I know that, for my taste, a far too great a percentage of stories that Tony has published about Scientology over the past year have presented Marty Rathbun or Mike Rinder or one of his flunkies as the 'reliable source', and, while the stories themselves served to expose at least *part* of the Scientology turd, they also allowed Marty Rathbun to elevate *himself* as the 'go to guy' in matters Scientology.

    And, that may be pragmatic, but, it's also the kind of pragmatism that defeats the purpose of telling the whole truth and nothing but the truth.
    • Like Like x 6
  16. Xinjifar Member

    Anyone who thinks Marty Rathbun is in it for the money is naive. He's in it for the KSW
  17. Anonymous Member

    fify
  18. Xinjifar Member

    Seriously? I doubt it. If he was really an escapee and really in it for the money, I don't doubt he could be sitting on millions in minutes. Admittedly, having been on the 'other side' I'm sure he'd know that any promises of leaving him alone would be bogus; like all those he gave. Still, I think it's obvious that he's a 'True Believer' rather than a mercenary.

    That's not to say that what he says is what he believes. Marty Rathbun believes in nothing more than the efficacy of lying.
  19. Anonymous Member

    This: "That's not to say that what he says is what he believes. Marty Rathbun believes in nothing more than the efficacy of lying." contradicts what you wrote before/above it.
  20. Anonymous Member

    I am not suggesting he no longer believes in LRH and the tech. I'm saying that subconsciously he cannot let go of his previous life and what he was good at - auditing. It takes a very stong and intellectually honest person to admit that something that he was following for 30 years was complete and utter crap. And Marty doesn't strike me as an intellectually honest person.
    • Like Like x 1
  21. subrosa Member

    The ONLY thing Marty knows is auditing, and the ONLY source of income he has is recently escaped scilons, so the ONLY thing he can do to make any money is what he is doing right now.
  22. Squirrel King Member

    Would you hire a guy for serious money whose name is all over the interwebs for cult activity, loss of temper and arrests? Could you imagine the liability?
  23. grebe Member

    IIRC, Marty was not an auditor in the CoS.* He was the chief enforcer and fixer for the mob boss.

    Like a lot of shady characters, Rathbun and Miscavige are enigmatic walking contradictions. Miscavige is a nouveau riche chav Vegas high roller who wants everything top-of-the-line, and who also wants to save the planet. Rathbun righteously opposes the CoS's criminal behavior but doesn't want to work with law enforcement.

    *Wait, I take that back. I remember hearing that Rathbun audited Tom Cruise. But maybe that was an exceptional thing.
  24. Anonymous Member

    And you know this... how?
  25. Anonymous Member

    Yeah... for all you know he might have a night job = SCOHB

    LOL
  26. Xinjifar Member

    There's little question that the MartyWorld Global Tours and operations are financed by more than his 'repair auditing'. But, the most likely 'source' of the funds is the sam people who funded the SquirrelBusters Show.
  27. Diablo Member

  28. Anonymous Member

    Is he like a registered minister or something? I mean I hope he knows what he is doing and is paying taxes.
  29. Diablo Member

    oh shit, OSA is reporting marty for failure to report income...he should have known that was coming.

    He did the same shit to other people I am sure...we'll see who wins this one...should be FUN!
  30. Anonymous Member

    If he did the same shit to other people, I hope he knows not to fail to report income. I wonder if he can register his auditing as religioius services.
  31. Diablo Member

    ^^yeah, but he did SO MUCH shit to others he can't possibly cover all of his tracks.

    Midget boy is really getting under his skin. Both are interferring with each others business practices...hahaha
  32. Anonymous Member

    I don't like Marty, I think he is a moron and a megalomaniac, but he is exteemely useful to project Chanology.
  33. DeathHamster Member

    The IRS agreement is quite specific to CoS-related entities. It would entertaining to see a Sklar-type case mounted where the exact same activity is claimed on both sides. The IRS would be stuck in the position of establishing who is official Scientology and who isn't. (It would have the same flaw as the Sklar cases: wanting the same deal rather than killing Scientology's deal.)
    • Like Like x 2
  34. Anonymous Member

    Gabriel_Gray.jpg
  35. As I understand it, a key part of the Scientology IRS claim is that the Scientology-related entities are not financially benefiting an individual but collect money solely to further their religious goals. Marty would have to start an organization to be able make a similar claim.

    While any money he takes in actually goes directly to him I doubt he can claim a tax benefit any more than I could if I claimed to be an independent Catholic priest and charged money for confessions.
  36. Anonymous Member

    BRB. I'll tell you how it went.
  37. Anonymous Member

    SYLAR is over here... not sklar.. this is not the brain eating Hero you are looking for.
  38. Anonymous Member

  39. tikk Member

    I've made this point myself in some depth [see my posts in this ESMB thread], speculating on how an independent scn could attempt to deduct auditing payments given to Marty just as CoS scns do. If/When the IRS denies the deduction, that person has an identical suit as the Sklars, only minus the standing problem. I don't believe that Marty would even need to officially incorporate for the discrimination claim to be cognizable because religious discrimination doesn't hinge on a religious belief being formally recognized, only that it's not a sham (it's sincere and genuinely shared by others).
    • Like Like x 1
  40. DeathHamster Member

    I'm not so sure that the standing problem goes away.

    Don't they (IndScieno) have to prove that CoS Scientology's special deal hurts them in some way? (Not getting the same deal apparently doesn't qualify.)

    (Shit: If someone pays money for Miscavigology, then they can write it off. But, if someone pays for 60 minute Martynizing, they're SOL. The IRS's establishment of who is and isn't official Scientology seems to be a huge problem--for them.)

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