Marty and Debbie Cook My take

Jesus, Chuck, I don't know what the fuck you are trying to get across with that wall of text. Very interesting I am sure, but please, edit these down.

I though I was guilty of verbal diorrea!

You have not posted like that for ages, man!

Oops, yea. Just a percolating mess of ex cult think. Sorry.

oh thank God!
I thought it was just me being a dumb ass.
sorry, but I am straining to understand all of it.

Don't apologize, Chuck. You truly confronted the actual E.P of scientology(it took a while)....that being, hubbard was nuts that wanted everyone else to follow his nuttiness

I realized, that LRH's buddies from the Science fiction days, were most correct about Ron.

Arthur C. Clark's remarks are classic:




Arthur C. Clarke saying L. Ron Hubbard was quite a good writer but that he went crazy and caused a lot of other people to go crazy.

And I wish we had Heinlein's letters to LRH in the public domain, since Heinlein tried talk some sense into Ron, but failed.

"This video is no longer available because the uploader has closed their YouTube account.

Now that I like...

it says vid no longer available becuase the uploader closed their account?

Not the vid, Its what he writ, short, sweet and to the point.

http://www.enter.net/~torve/higher/hubbard.html

Strange Angel, The Otherworldly Life of Rocket Scientist John Whiteside Parsons, p.271, Chapter 11, Rock Bottom:

He sure had Hubbard pegged.

I don't doubt that Mike & Marty have a "master plan" in mind. They're both completely delusional and what fun is delusional thinking without some sort of a master plan? Debbie Cook may have tossed a monkey wrench into their dreams but that's about it. Probably wet dreams at that.

They managed to cement some small amount of media cred due to having courted Tobin and Childs for their "Truth Rundown" series but any subsequent media exposure that they've enjoyed since then has more to do with the media keeping a small Rolodex and a desire to simply stick with whats familiar when it comes to producing stories about the antics of clown cults and other topics which they have little time or interest in researching properly than it does with either of these two asshats being legitimate spokesholes for any emerging "movement".

Save for the possibility of a few backstage players in the CST woking quietly to keep Miscavige propped up as their front man and cash cow (/tinfoil) any "high up" positions within scientology's visible heirarchy are completely meaningless titles which can be done away with at the drop of a hat much less a game of musical chairs. Darth Mike? Darth Marty? Hardly. The very idea that they're still clinging to these titles serves only as further evidence to the extent of their delusions.

As much as I'd like to hang on to some glimmer of hope (delusion) that one day they'll come around and reacquaint themselves with the human race, it's unlikely. More likely they'll just continue on with their day to day lives as scientology's useful idiots with their blog and their handful of sycophants keeping them and their dreams alive.

I understood it. (sad lol)

And to complete Things L. Sprague de Camp said about Hubbard:
EL-RON OF THE CITY OF BRASS L. Sprague de Camp
[Printed in the "Literary Swordsmen and Sorcerers"
series in Fantastic, August 1975]
http://www.xenu.net/archive/oca/elron.html

Close, but nope.

What he missed, was that the "charm act" was just getting started.

And Heinlein could have been closer to the truth than de Camp realized.
Ron may have been morally "to pieces" long before WWII,
but this was his first real chance to play "god" with human lives and live ammo.

The fantasies became real. He DID save the US and Mexico from a Japanese invasion.
He DID take out a couple of Jap subs that nobody else thought even existed.
(only a slight exaggeration)

The experience of being able to give nutty orders and see people carry them out might have been crucial in his transformation from pompous blowhard, to paranoid megalomaniac cult leader.

still, 1946.
the best minds in the industry found poor-wounded-veteran Ron, a pathetic, washed up has-been.
Who could have known?

From^:

Interesting and enjoyable read from 1975. Thanks for linking that. It's rather grounding to get a fellow writer's take on Hubbard, spanning his whole life.

tyvm,
martybot

Y

You were duped by an OSA plant John - when you're forwarding information like this you need to give names so that the information can be cross-checked. The person you are referencing is not an ex-Scientologist - he is happily doing services at Saint Hill and best buddies with Phil Harbour (the DSA). His wife is one of the top executives at Greenfields - the local Scientology 'school' helping to ensure that kids get an early start on their brainwashing. Is that a reliable source? Be a Marty hater by all means but verify your information before you report it as fact.

Don't

Don't sweat it tho. I got duped by the same person. You live and learn.

Nah, could never happen. There's no-one on the inside who have the gumption to stand up to DM.

Really, there isn't.

No way.

Best Regards

Jens

Which is exactly the point Hugh Urban gets to in his book. Behind all his insistence on people making their own reality, L Ron Hubbard was actually engaged in making the reality of his followers. Which may not be a power reserved for a god, but definitely high on a sensible list of "god-like powers."

Best Regards

Jens

I am sure that you are right, Lockey is too in and really too fucked up to even join the Mike and Marty show. However, it was not Lockey, it was Sam that told me. Sam is a damaged woman, but she is straight up, there is no nastiness in her at all. I have reason believe that she genuinely slipped up and revealed part of the plan, we were at breakfast the next day and that ex RTC qual Sec was keeping Sam on a reign and I sensed that she was watching me. I am not paranoid, I just know they are all watching me all the time.

Now Jan, BTW, that former RTC lady, looks like she will drop dead quite soon unless she makes some major life changes. I was smoking like she was when I was much younger, and I was not far off from sme serious medical consequences, she is well into her fifties.

Don't get me wrong, I think they are are all nuts, and I don't know if they can do it, but I certainly don't rule it out. Again I ask, what have M and M done to damage the C of S? What have they really done to Miscavige, aside from name calling? These fellows have an eye to a return to power within the official cult. That is what I see.

Now I know that these are probably really incompetent men, who, with out any kind of indie movement would be selling beer and second hand cars, but they have a movement and it is made up of quite a crowd of deluded people who would, and do, go to some quite remarkable legnths to get stuff done,(Hayden James is an interesting case in point) because they are fanatical. That must not be discounted.

Now interesting to any of us from a strategy point of view is that they - the Marty and Rinder crowd - think that the Freezone are all nutty squirrels, but the Freezone the likes of Terril on ESMB, feel that the sun shines out of M and M's butt hole. Exploitable.

I feel strongly that it would be wise to not rule out what could be, what the outcomes of a coup d'état might be, there is a lot of human fallout at stake. History tells us how mad these dictator types can be when cornered. Jonestown, Waco, Texas.

I think this kind of speculation, as long as it does not fall over into tin foil land, is important, as important as dox or stfu.

Christ, man, I know that feeling. It does help to write stuff, it is great that you are doing so. Better out than in...

I like to read the ruminations of courageous individuals.

pass the salt

Seriously dude - you and your conspiracy theories - you spent too long in the cult my friend.

LOL!

Welcome to these boards Sam. It is a lovely place to spend a Sunday afternoon.

I am sorry if my sense of what you, all of us ex SO damaged goods, have been through has been stated to you on these boards.

I heard what I heard Sam, I am not being covert or anything, that is what I heard and I am not hiding anything.You talked about St. Hll and changing that stupid platic statue with no balls and putting a Hubbard there when 'we take St. Hill back'.

If it is any consolation I have been as open about my own fucked up self as I have been about anyone, and I have no problem with people pointing that out. Did I come to the wrong conclusion?

I hope everyone else enjos their pop corn.

You are welcome to take me apart, though there is not that much left to take apart.

^^^^^^^
Something that Anons who are out-of-the-fruitloop-loop often forget.
Marty & Mike are for LRH STANDARD TECH (whatever the heck that is)

FZ droids each follow those aspects of Tech that appeal to them or strike their fancy. For some, it may well be pretty close to the M&M brigade, but given the lack of concordance in the FreeZone, M&M have no way of knowing, without auditing and examining for themselves.

Those FZ'ers who can attest "I've been audited by Marty <3" have probably passed the sec-check.
...

My interpretation, anyway.
as an Anon w/o any proper training, or bank

Qual sec for RTC then? If facts are not straight now, I suppose they never shall be. in which case I bid farewell to my dubious credibility...

John,
You may wish to characterise yourself as 'damaged goods' but I don't. I spent 6 years in the Sea Org and then got the hell out. Perhaps you got more messed up staying so long - I don't know but my mind (and my memory) are perfectly lucid thank you.
Either way, it's no excuse for you to lie outright. I'm not buying the excuses that you somehow misunderstood what occurred. You were VERY specific in your original report (except for giving names... mine!) and now you want to claim you're a bit fuzzy about the whole thing.
No such conversation took place. Not even close. And even if that were the case you would not have been privy to such information being a complete outsider anyway - when I choose to 'let things slip' I am very deliberate about it and I do it in front of witnesses or I do it publicly on a forum (such as this). That way there can be no 'misunderstanding'
You were VERY specific in your original report so the excuse that you're a bit fuzzy about the details now due to your 'fucked up' state doesn't wash.
What people choose to believe of Marty Rathbun or Mike Rinder is up to them and I'm not making any excuses for their responsibility in creating the cult (or our own as ex Sea Org Members) but I won't stand by and allow you to spread OSA propaganda in my name.
I'm sorry John, I like you and I do understand what you've been through but you seriously crossed the line with me here.

Suggest you email me

Suggest you email me on the back lines - you have my information - and talk about this or drop the subject and STFU yourself.

Look, fair enough Sam, I must defer to you, as it is indeed your memory of our conversation that must take precedence. I would however be most surprised and indeed upset if OSA somehow planted something.

The problem is that I am not lying, I had that conversation, now I grant that my brain could have transposed the conversation from another to you, you being the most framiliar to me of the whole entourage.

I certainly am not perfect. Far from it.But I hope that I am not going completly bonkers and imagining conversations? Maybe... scary thought.

Please accept my apologies, Sam, for having made such an error and insinuating a less than complementary presumption of your state of health.

And to mods: Mabe you could rename the thread 'speculations of paranoid ex cultie'? That might avoid the danger of open and bloody warfare breaking out among the various Scientology factions.

Oops just saw that after I posted. Will email you.

If you are smart, you will retract and apologize.

Lying about "Sudden Sam" in public is a very bad idea, John. You ought to know better.

Michael A. Hobson
Independent Scientologist

Hmmm, bet you're thinking 'who do I believe here?'

Is it the OP, or
The Sneakster, or
bollox?

Careful now

Belie

Believe me, Michael, I have the greatest fondness for Sam, I have apologised unreservedly for any disparagement. I have deferred to her memory of events since it was her good self that I based my speculative conclusions upon.

Unlike a certain L. Ron Hubbard, I have no problem with 'eating crow' if I my information, speculations or conclusions are proved to be erroneous in nature.

Thank you for providing with further opportunity to further excoriate my clearly somewhat untrustworthy memory of events.

Love and hugs, old bean.

Hopefully this wasn't an op to out the username of Sam here. Now that would be downright nasty.