Discussion in 'Independent Scientology' started by anonanchovie, Jan 20, 2012.
did marty ever showed how much money he collected under the let's help debbie does dallas con?
damn that's a BIG a-hole
you sure that's not Miscavige's?
I hear he's writing a report to the IRS about it as you read this.
I've seen this similar thing Jan Weiss is exuding, in others. It's a loss for the people who were in the upper cliques, and these RTC types in particular, one's like Jan who were not around LRH, and Marty himself nor Mike Rinder, were around LRH like the "Gang of 5" (Steve Halls' blog, must read articles, those 5, I believe several were sources for books in the 1980s, like Corydon's book in particular and Miller's), the people near the top, ALL have this guilt, "If we of I only had done this or that different, then Miscavige wouldn't be ruining Ron's Scientology today like it's being ruined."
This take over from Miscavige, is almost natural, and I like that you are studying Italian politics of long ago, for parallels, since to me there's underlying normal human sociological/psychological/political human inclinations at play.
Hubbard wrote the blueprint, and the movement is his baby! If you look at how he tried to distribute his hats to the various offices/units/orgs, you see that even these ex RTC and people who lived the top ranks cliques, you see they each have their deficiencies in even duplicating this whole big keyboard smorgasbord of management groups and units to do what Ron did.
Even despite the imperfect personalities who forever wish to go back and change things to the way Ron said to do them, they (the Sea Org people sitting there, whoever it is that is sitting there) have all that private and extensive voluminous Hubbard private orders and writings, to read and decide how to go forward.
Hubbard is Scientology. Not the "Save Scientology" people, not Jan Weiss, not Mike orMarty, not Miscavige.
Hubbard is Scientology.
It's his shit, his blueprint, that the most driven fanatical "top" people, it's Hubbard's writings/lectures that they most have to battle with.
But in reality, you could be right. Maybe the "Save Scientology" group of ex Int execs, the ex RTC people (who I consider might do better than Miscavige), but I think the battle ALL and whoever has the job of playing the top management, their biggest problem I've thought is how they deal with Hubbard's writings to them telling them how to proceed; but you are right, despite all the Hubbard crap, it will be human sociology/pscychology and past history patterns, that Scientology will play out, and good on your studies!
You did a book! So you always get a pass from me!
Agreed, Marty's actually not even technically suitable for top management, since he's really been so unfortunately conditioned into the Guardian's Office/OSA (Hubbard's intel/covert ops/legal/handle the "big" celebrity and church flaps) mentality, which is NOT the managerial nuts and bolts WDC/Exec Strata member council mindset. He'd be a horrible administrative leader due to his job experience as top bag man and handler and fixer for those decades he was "at the top." He's the absolute wrong type of replacement.
But that's the whole wrong solution anyways. And Marty's more for letting the mess collapse.
The problem is Hubbard wrote so much faulty tactical orders/programs/policies/strategies for so many years, and he's "delegated" all his lunacy to so many sub units, it's NOT a job one person can take over from Hubbard. Marty was at the top of the Hubbard GO/OSA legal/covert ops/fix the flaps lunacy Hubbard's other administrative rules caused the movement.
And Hubbard, in his wisdom, didn't want a one man band like Miscavige, being the sole decider of all the major decisions, in all these zones that Hubbard ordered separate administrative bureaucratic units to deal with.
Top management is supposed to be WDC and Exec strata, this reference is boring but has the basics of what Hubbard left them with, and it was NOT Marty who researched and compiled this document, it was mostly Ingber and Yager, I overheard Ingber brag about this:
Command Channels booklet. boring but this lays out WHY Marty, Mike, Jan, Save Scientology people, have an almost impossible task before them. To truly do what Ron said, which Miscavige has NOT done, it takes a big bureaucracy to do the Command Channels final layout system which is the final accumulation of LRH's intent for the "BIG" movement.
It's such a dreary dull boring long answer, but Hubbard got away being Joe Cult leader who couldn't be questioned for his "brilliance" as cult leader, and Hubbard wrote years and years of accumulating "tech" mental therapy fantasy, and "admin" rules do's and don't's, administrative bureaucratic orders/programs/plans/strategies/policies which the top members were obliged to buy and agree with; and he wrote so much administrative faulty fantasy managerial principles keeping them following his total output, it is ungodly and overwhelming, and takes years to even understand it all.
But I'd agree whoever takes over, will have some beneficial effects, so long as they don't go even more extreme with the internal punishment control crap, the PTS/SP scapegoating excommunication and "enemy" labeling "tech" of Hubbard's. (For the world's benefit, whoever takes over has to realize major reform is needed, and realize huge chunks of the Hubbard "tech" needs be retired, and the "pilot" group that's basically lived without the draconian extremist rules, are the freezone Scientologists.)
There are loopholes the replacers of Misacvige could use, and soften the mess, and possibly, by the time Miscavige dies of old age, and more horrible ups and downs in people's lives occurs from now till then, maybe the movement body will be ready for some wholesale softening of official Scientology's tight totalitarian control of its members.
The freezone/independent Scientologists show that Scientologists can carry on without the whole totalitarian mess, and still do their high volume dead space aliens' souls exorcism quite happily amongst themselves, without ruining each other's lives.
Church of Scientology sues longtime Clearwater leader over New Year's Eve email
By Joe Childs and Thomas C.Tobin, Times Staff Writers
Posted: Jan 30, 2012 07:58 PM
The Church of Scientology has sued its longtime Clearwater leader Debbie Cook after she publicly questioned the church's aggressive fundraising tactics and other practices.
The lawsuit — filed Friday in San Antonio, Texas, where Cook lives — reveals that the church paid Cook and her husband, Wayne Baumgarten, $50,000 each to remain silent about their time on church staff.
Cook, 50, worked 17 years as the church's top official in Clearwater, Scientology's worldwide spiritual headquarters. Serving in the post of "captain," she presided over an operation that brought in $1.7 billion for the church during that time.
Cook and Baumgarten each signed non-disclosure agreements as they left the staff in October 2007. All told, Cook had worked in the church's religious order, the Sea Org, for 29 years.
[Much more at the link...]
The Sound of Silence is highly revered in The 'Church' of Scientology and huge sums of parishioners fixed 'donations' have been used for hush money to purchase Silence from potential whistleblowers since its inception as convicted fraud L. Ron Hubbard's scam that magically transformed a fake science into a fake religion using a religious cloaking policy.
I hope that they claim that they were under duress when they signed the non-disclosure agreement.
Years from now when people hear the name "Streisand," they will think, "She mad at Internet, lol." Nobody will remember her unbelievable performance in Yentil.
I must be able to see the future in my dreams. I actually had a Streisand dream last night (no...not THAT kind you sick fuck). I couldn't figure out why she popped into my thoughts while sleeping. Now I know why.
That's twice as much as Gerry Armstrong! He gonna be so jelly!
It turns out that Debbie Cook does need a defense fund. Does Marty get points for being psychic?
I knew someone was going to say something along those lines. I must be psychic too.
Marty is now saying that since Debbie Cook has her own legal defense fund set up he's transferring everything he raised there and encouraging direct donations to her going forward.
Assuming he actually does pass along the money I will give him credit for this one.
That's nothing. A couple of days before 9/11 I had a dream about Osama bin Laden that I shared with a friend. I was kind of freaked for a while about the coincidence.
Thing is, on any given day in your life a buttload of stuff happens. And mind blowing coincidences occur at a rate of approximately one per ten buttloads. That means, if you are paying attention like a proper paranoid schizophrenic, you will have about 30 freaky coincidences in your life per year.
It does make me wonder about the source of at least some of the the squawking here about Marty raising the fund.
I'm no Marty fan, but my expectations are low, so I'm willing to credit him with actions that hurt CoS. (And he might have a secret cunning plan to be the next Dear Leader. He might have plans to be Queen of Romania too. So what?)
Not so sure. I think Gerry is fined $50,000 every times he publicly says "scientology", not need for outright disparagement. At this rate, I think he needs more money then there exists on the planet to pay all the fines...
That is not "censoring speech."
Deleting a post is an example of censorship.
Making a post that casts doubt as to a particular person's credibility is not.
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