Marty Rathbun and Glasnost

Discussion in 'Independent Scientology' started by Anonymous, Sep 3, 2011.

  1. Random guy Member

    Thanks for he link!

    Stil, we have no idea what actually went on a that meeting, whether i was the pivotal moment Miscavige boast, or just to (let's say) put the final touches on he formalities. We don't know if Rathbun was privy to the sensitive legal information, or if he was more of a muscle fixer. In other words, we don't know what Rathbun knows.
  2. Anonymous Member

    "Muscle fixer" -- of the I.R.S.?

    Oh, yeah.
  3. Anonymous Member

  4. AnonLover Member

    LOL, Marty seems to forget Tony's list is about people crippling scientology, and NOT about glorifying his own crusade against DM.

    So of course Beghe's coming out on video was a defining moment for Beghe's good deeds in crippling the organization. Unless Marty has some reason to resent Beghe's fully woken-up and done-with-the-shit state of mind... heh.
    • Like Like x 2
  5. Django Member

    Yeah, I'm a little curious about that myself. I don't have time to listen through the whole Beghe interview from a couple years ago, but that quote stands out, and it tells me in no uncertain terms that JB does NOT buy any of Hubbard's crap anymore. Maybe he and Marty have agreed to keep things GR/FW, but, well, could make for some interesting conversation around the ol' cabana...
  6. Nancy Beazley Member

    Django, I realize those Beghe vids are long. But they are really (and I mean REALLY) some of the best video around. Do try to find time to watch 'em.

    Protip: Once you watch the first one, you won't be able to not finish the others.
    • Like Like x 2
  7. Anonymous Member

    He should tell us what the plan is.
  8. Xinjifar Member

    Yes. it's not really too difficult, although it's heavily smoke-screened. Marty resurfaced in 2009 on ESMB, announcing that he was opening up shop to offer auditing outside of the Co$. Along with that he offered free auditing for any of his victims who still had 'upsets' with him.

    Naturally, he came up for questioning about whether he was going to do 'restitution' for his and the 'Church's' criminal activity by testifying about it with the appropriate police agencies.

    In his 2nd and last post to ESMB he flatly rejected that course of action and, with much weepy butthurt, announced his leaving of ESMB. Some ESMBers were much taken with his pathos and considered what I'd consider pretty low-key and predictable failure to embrace as an 'ass raping'. :) It's still around on ESMB and I think it's worth it to go to the 'source' material, rather than try to disentangle the mountains of spin/counter-spin since.

    Worth noting though that, in rejecting the possibility that he might 'turn states evidence' Marty made the claim that the FBI confessed to him that they'd been trying to frame him for more than 10 years, but, that he was just too smart to fall into their trap. So, at least the implication is/was that, contrary to common perception, there *was* no Scientology criminality and none by him. But, read it yourself.

    A few months later Marty launched his own 'website' with a picture of him and Jason Beghe embracing and labeled merely 'friends'. As we now know, Mark Bunker offered to help him with the website which then became the MartyWorld 'Moving On Up' blog.

    So, that's the background. Now, as to why anybody cares about Marty Rathbun *now*:

    Rather than return to the original premise of offering Auditing Marty Rathbun has morphed into a 'Movement' he calls the 'Independent Scientologists'. There has been much said about what the *goals* of tha movment are; who leads it; who's financing it; what actions it's pursuing etc. Some people think he's trying to 'supplant' David Miscavige as 'head' of the 'Church'. Some think he's trying to create a parallel universe of LRH-True Scientologists outside of the 'Church'. Some think he's trying to 'reform' the 'Church' by forcing it to curb the worst of its abuse.

    What we *know* is what Marty Rathbun has said himself, which is pretty much nothing. And, even in saying nothing, he's been quick to contradict himself and change stories and rationales like a chameleon on a tartan in the hopes of being 'all things to all men'.

    Why *I* think he's 'important' is that Marty's 'movement' seems entirely aimed at coopting any and all voices discussing Scientology and unite them with Rathbun as the primary spokesman, strategist and media contact. In that aim he and his 'friends' have been busy as ebola contacting any media outlet planning or running any Scientology related story in an attempt to influence the story with the correct 'MartySpin'. This has been the case since the the SPTimes 'Truth Rundown' story first gave him public presence and influence and has continued to this day with literally *every* Scientology related story since.

    And, to get back to why I or anybody 'cares'; he's done so *successfully*. Amazingly so. Because the MartySpin may be many different things and change direction wherever it finds it conveenient, but, through it all, there is one guiding thread; Marty and his Movement will do anything to prevent any *outside* investigation or prosecution of the 'Church' of Scientology.

    Wherever you go now to inform yourself or discuss Scientology/Church of Scientology you will find organized Marty supporters to shout down, deflect or minimize calls for a criminal prosecution of the 'Church' that might result in exposing past and current Scientology *crime* (and, I don't mean things like 'slapping around' or the silly pseudo-Fair Game of the SquirrelBusters.)

    I can't speak for anyone else, and, I'm consistently amazed at the number of people who proudly announce that they never read 'MartyWorld' or his 'front' organizations at '', '' or his closed Facebook 'Independent Scientology' group, yet are also proud to proclaim that 'Marty is On Our Side!' or that he's the 'Enemy of My Enemy' or that 'He's just Decompressing' yadda yadda. I mean, really, sure people will form 'opinions' based on little information, but, *none*???

    Whatever Marty's 'goals' may actually be, he's *not* on my side and his goals are *not* mine, yet he's shown a disturbing ability to influence the discussion, both in the small, on boards like ESMB and WWP and even the now defunct 'Ex Scientology Kids', and in the much wider Mainstream Media.

    And, that's why I care.
    • Like Like x 6
  9. Anonymous Member

    I preferred the old one... rrowrrr
    • Like Like x 1
  10. Anonymous Member

    So, Zinj, do you still think Marty and Miscavige are in cahoots -- and that Miscavige will welcome Marty back into the fold with open arms, once his "mission on the outside" is completed?
  11. Xinjifar Member

    1) Telling the truth is anathema to him'
    2) To actually limit himself to one 'plan' would cut him off from supporters who have other plans or would reject his own plan and Marty's 'plan' requires him to gather all the disparate elements under one tent where he has the only key to the Porta-Potti.
    • Like Like x 2
  12. Anonymous Member

    Can we make Zinj a WWP moderator? He would be so excellent.
    • Like Like x 3
  13. Anonymous Member

    And he wouldn't write quite so damned much
    • Like Like x 1
  14. Xinjifar Member

    Since you ask, yes to the first; no to the second, since that would defeat the purpose. If you want a better idea of the actuall gameplan, look at Marty's 'front' website at

    The 'action plan' there involves *preventing* any external investigation or prosecution of Scientology by preempting it with an *internal* investigation, with David Miscavige 'stepping down' until after the audit. There's much more there, but, you can read it yourself.
    • Like Like x 3
  15. Xinjifar Member

    If nominated I will not run; if elected, I will not serve. Besides, I'm not anonymous. And, according to Marty, I'm a paid OSA Op anyway :)
    • Like Like x 4
  16. Anonymous Member

    Zinj, you should write a blog about Marty. You know so much about him. I wouldn't doubt it if you know more about Marty than anybody else in the world. Maybe even more than Marty.
  17. Anonymous Member

    Zinj and Smurf would make a great team for that project.
  18. Anonymous Member

    Zinj, has Marty not been to the FBI?
  19. Anonymous Member

    Oh, hell no. Smurf's specialty is Rinder. I think Rinder broke his heart once.
  20. Xinjifar Member

    There is no reason to think that Marty Rathbun has spoken to the FBI, at least not in the sense of being 'interviewed' by them. That's not to say that he hasn't done quite a bit to 'suggest' to people that he's doing so and that he can't talk about it because he's doing so much important stuff in the 'background'.

    The only indication we have that Mike Rinder spoke to the FBI is that he himself said so to the New Yorker, when they asked. There is no reason to believe him, and no information on the extent of his claimed 'meeting'. Remember, It was Mike Rinder who announced two years ago at MartyWorld that he had enough information to put David Miscavige behind bars, but, that he wouldn't reveal it yet because he had a prior committment to the BBC 'Panorama' show.

    When he was doing his later media tour in Australia, Bryan Semour of 'Today Tonight' interviewed him. Apparently the 'prior committement' to 'Panorama' no longer mattered and, Mike later admitted that there really hadn't been any such committment, except his own 'ethics'. In any case, Bryan asked Mike; (paraphrase) 'So could I say that you won't discuss further criminal aspects of Scientology because you're cooperating with law enforcement?'

    Mike answered, 'You could say that'. Yup; I guess he *could*.
    • Like Like x 3
  21. Django Member

    Oh, I've seen them all, just not recently. I meant, at the time of writing the above, I didn't have time to sift through them for more JB quotes about his opinion of Hubbard's quackery...
  22. Anonymous Member

    It's hard to imagine that Rathbun is conspiring with Miscavige, very hard. But in Scientologyland almost any crazy thing is possible.

    What evidence would convince you though that they are not conspiring?
  23. Anonymous Member

    Nothing. He requires no evidence -- for or against.
  24. Xinjifar Member

    Possibly if *either* actually did something that harmed the other. Beyond name calling and clown cars. But, I admit, even then I'd want to send out for a lab analysis. What would make the whole thing irrelevant would be a RICO prosecution of the 'Church' and all involved. It's about the only thing that will make any kind of 'glasnost' possible.
    • Like Like x 2
  25. Anonymous Member

    ESK's not as active as some boards lately but it's still up, running smoothly and performing a valuable service.
  26. Anonymous Member

    Please. Don't confuse us with any facts. So distracting.

    Zinj, pray continue.
  27. Xinjifar Member

    I said defunct; not 'gone'. And, yes, it's still a valuable resource. There has even been some recent discussion there:

    In fact, I find this particular post really invaluable considering the current discussion. Especially if you know some of the background :)
  28. Anonymous Member

  29. Xinjifar Member

    Beghe's well known video was shot *before* he was 'salvaged' by Marty Rathbun. While he hasn't publicly disavowed it; he also hasn't repeated the 'Show me the motherfucking Clear!' since.

    And, per Marty, crippling Scientology is not his goal; he wants to *restore* it and anyone not on *his* bandwagon is OSA and a 'hater' and 'extremist' or just stupid. Naturally, he wouldn't want to say it in so many words to Tony Ortega, since his influence relies on being able to 'source' any story or spin he wants published.
  30. Anonymous Member

    D'ya figure he mighta seen one in south Texas?
  31. Xinjifar Member

    From 'The Oracle' on the village voice:

    "Theoracle (unregistered) wrote, in response to Joe_Lynn:
    Yes it happened. There were OSA police that snuck in and then left early. Otherwise the event was very friendly. About 15 Independents representing EU showed up. This is all from a post on an Independent forum. I will copy and paste. Hi Zinj........
    There was about 15 attending the meeting which was changed to a conference room

    in I believe the Hotel Marty was staying in. This was paid for by Ms Caberta, another sign that she is quite friendly with FZers/Independents.
    My friend spoke to Ms Caberta several times and found her very friendly. Same with
    Graham Berry.

    Lots of reminiscing, laughing and a good time was had by all. :)
    There were 2 possible OSAbots who left early. After the main meeting much meetings with others over lunch etc.
    My friend didn't think there was anyone from Rons Orgs there, but he isn't part of
    Rons Org and dosn't know anyone from RO except Max Hauri who wasn't there.
    I've had some nice correspondence with Graham Berry and asked him if he could
    speak to Ms Caberta about trying to get the question on Government job application forms
    changed from " Are you a scientologist" to "Are you a CO$ member."
  32. Xinjifar Member

    Something was fishy down there, but, I don't think it was 'Clears', or, for that matter, Marty in his rowboat.
  33. Xinjifar Member

    No word yet from Marty on the substance of the meeting between Scientology's newest Martin Luther and his presumptive new flock, but, when I asked my Magic 8 Ball all it would say was 'Götz von Berlichingen'

    • Like Like x 1
  34. Xinjifar Member

    Funny, the 'event' is over, but, comments are still being moved to the 'derail thread'. Derailed from *what*??
  35. Anonymous Member

    NOBODY is the boss of Zinj!
  36. Anonymous Member

  37. Krautfag Member

    I guess it has become a habit :D

    Ah, they locked the event thread. NazisMods are on a roll :p
  38. Xinjifar Member

  39. LocalSP Member

    I will bet my life that neither Marty or Rinder have ever talked to the FBI about the abuses of the CoS. They are a couple of bald faced liars who couldn't tell the truth even with a gun pointed to their heads.

    By the way, where is Rinder? Did he and Marty have a falling out? They were so inseparable for a while.
  40. Anonymous Member

    We are the Knights of the Italics Button. *Use* it, you'll *like* it.

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