Marty Rathbun asks: Are Scientologists Trained to Lie?

Discussion in 'Independent Scientology' started by Martin Ottmann, Aug 14, 2014.

  1. New Entry on his blog:

    Posted on August 13, 2014 by martyrathbun09 | 88 Comments

    Did you ever wonder why scientologists are so comfortable with and accomplished at issuing ‘acceptable truth’ (scientology euphemism for lie)? This may shed some light on the question. For starters, scientologists are taught from the get-go that whatever is true for the individual is true. That datum is presented by L. Ron Hubbard in such wise that usually it is taken as a tremendous validation and empowerment of the reader. It is so universally accepted as such that it is about the last scientology stable datum a recovering scientologist is willing to question. They find it difficult to reckon that such an idea can ultimately serve as a cement ceiling to any growth beyond wherever scientology might take them.

    In fact, it is the first step toward a sort of chronic self-hypnotic state that ultimately automatically converts the scientologist’s subjective world into the objective world. To a scientologist there is no objective universe, but for the one he or she deigns to be true.* Over time that subjective reality is thoroughly shaped and molded by the universe view of L. Ron Hubbard. Once fully converted to accepting that wholly subjective, albeit influenced by indoctrination, universe view as objective fact, a hard core scientologist can act rather insanely. No matter how hard you try to convince him about the existence of an objective fact he will increasingly cling to his ‘reality’ (which after all to him is the only true source of objective fact) no matter how fanciful or insane that reality may be. Ironically, that is insanity according to Hubbard’s own definition – unable to sense and perceive that which just about everybody else is able to.

    That is one reason why scientology organizations can smugly count on any scientologist in good standing to comfortably commit perjury for scientology and its leaders. Scientologists can and do perform that feat with the greatest aplomb, without the slightest sense of guilt or remorse for doing so. I have watched lawyers become dumbfounded witnessing scientologists so perform so facilely while under oath. Those skills are honed in scientology’s ‘Success Through Communication ‘ course that teaches one to comfortably lie as a supposed social necessity. They are refined in lengthy, arduous witness coaching sessions with scientology legal staff (sessions that are promptly and conveniently forgotten upon command by the scientologist’s cultivated ability to create his own reality). Connected to legal proceedings or not, the scientologist’s subjective universe view reins so supreme that he can even be unaware that he is lying through his teeth while doing so.

    This state of unawareness should not be considered an acquittal for the dishonest scientologist. That is because every scientologist at some point makes a conscious decision to enter the mindset of permanent self-deception. It is crossing that line where conscience is consciously overridden in favor of whatever promised fruits await to award faith. The disease that conversion process nurtures was well described more than two-hundred years ago by Thomas Paine in The Age of Reason (describing corrupt priests):

    [Censored pseudo-philosophical/psychological gibberish].
    • Like Like x 8
  2. fishypants Moderator

    "in such wise". Pompous twat.

    Glad to see him admitting to the lying thing though, though it's noticeable that he's keeping it all in the third person. "The Scientologist this" and "the Scientologist that". It's not quite the same as "I lied".
    • Like Like x 5
  3. How dare you compare Marty to a Scientologist. Marty nowadays finds himself on a higher spiritual plateau. From these heights he is looking down on those wretched earthlings aka Scientologists and is shaking his head in disbelief.
    • Like Like x 6
  4. anon8109 Member

    He used to think he was a demi-god, a Homo Novis, a Big Being, with only Hubbard and Miscavige slightly higher than him.

    It's not easy to come down from so high a pedestal and admit to being a mere wog.

    Considering where he started out he has come a long way indeed. He's sounding more and more like a rational critic each day. Hopefully the day will arrive when he is able to fully realize how badly he behaved and make full amends.
    • Like Like x 4
  5. RightOn Member

    I am just glad he is finally talking against Scientology.
    No matter how ironic or hypocritical it may be
    • Like Like x 6
  6. Marty Rathbun asks: Am I a Hypocrite?
    • Like Like x 5
  7. Anonymous Member

    I regard this pair of identical misspellings as quite telling.

    Connected to legal proceedings or not, the scientologist’s subjective universe view reins so supreme that he can even be unaware that he is lying through his teeth while doing so.

    But, in keeping with his training and conditioning subjectivity reins and trumps reality.

    I find Marty continuing to fail at literacy, and the philosophical meanderings are predictably clumsy. The sexist language also annoys me.

    However his failings, he may be closing in on one of the ugliest facts: scientology manufactures and grooms sociopaths.

    I doubt that Mr. Rathbun will go near that fact, because it is part of a theory composed by Gerry Armstrong.
    • Like Like x 5
  8. fishypants Moderator

    Does the Pope shit in the woods?

    • Like Like x 4
  9. Yes. I saw the title of the thread and instantly thought, ''He oughta know the answer to that question since he was in the OSA.'' I notice he doesn't talk about the OSA but is talking about Scientologists in general. There is a lot I could say about that but I think I will just save my energy. He is not worth it.

    Did Arp Cola make the little green apples?
    • Like Like x 2
  10. Mark 'Marty' Rathbun: Scientologists commit perjury 'with the greatest aplomb, without the slightest sense of guilt or remorse for doing so.'

    Are Scientologists Trained to Lie?
    • Like Like x 1
  11. Marty is projecting LRH'S and his own natural ability onto all Scientologists.
  12. Gerry responded:

    Dear Marty:
    Yesterday you wrote in your article “Are Scientologists Trained to Lie?:”
    [Consider the homophones, Luke.]
    Describing the Scientology v. Armstrong trial in LA in 1984 in Memoirs of a Scientology Warrior, you wrote:
    Harris, of course, was lying about Scientologists’ being too honest to make good witnesses. He created witness school to get Scientologists more comfortably committing perjury for scientology and its leaders.

    Remember your first email to me:
    Recall too what Hubbard wrote in HCO PL January 31, 1983, “The Reason for Orgs:”
    That couldn’t have possibly been true for you. You were right then looking at a mass of his lies to Scientologists that were being debunked in litigations that you ran, and in media you had to handle. I realize your handling in courts, media or anywhere else was to attack the attacker, and not deal with Hubbard’s lies; but you had to have known he was lying about never lying to people or conning them. Your consciencelessness and power – the promised fruits of your lying – were not really attainable unless your lying was willful. Scientology’s power is in hypocrisy, not in integrity as Scientologists aver.

    I’m certain you recall that Hubbard quote in an article I wrote “SCHUMCO’s Defense Tech,” which I referred you to in an email on February 5 this year.

    I wrote you because, as I said, you had victimized many wogs over many years in SCHUMCO’s service, and Memoirs showed you still were doing it to us.

    I have been dealing with Scientologists lying and L. Ron Hubbard lying for forty-five years. My article from three years ago “Why won’t Marty and Mike tell the truth?” deals with the lying of Scientologists who knew they were lying, like Mike Rinder and you. Some Scientologists certainly didn’t know you were lying, and you lied to them to keep them trapped.

    After that, you added a bookload of lies about me, and some of your other victims, in Memoirs. You have done nothing to correct or even acknowledge the lies that have been identified for you in your book, let alone the lies you know are lies but haven’t yet been called on.

    Unlike perhaps some of your witnesses in your witness school, you did know you were lying through your teeth about me, and about the Armstrong op, the Flynn frame, and all sorts of other anti-public policy activities. You committed perjury, comfortably or not, for scientology and its leaders, in court, in my cases, and many other cases, to law enforcement, to officials throughout governments, and, vitally, to the IRS.

    Your lies in service of Scientology, Hubbard, Miscavige, et al., about the efficacy of the tech, the ethics of the group, its control, the victims, both private citizens and government officials, caused great harm. Your uncorrected lies, in all the records you have made privately, publicly or in legal proceedings, still cause harm. Your lies still serve the Scientologists’ evil purposes. You continue to help Miscavige harm good people more than a shipful of his Sea Org servants who polish his shoes or his handle. Your lies shine up his very operating scope. Metaphysics or advanced theoretical physics as dodges are dodgy.

    It always was the time for you to tell the truth. That is just as true now. And it will set a lot of captives free.
    • Like Like x 13
  13. fishypants Moderator

    • Like Like x 6
  14. JohnnyRUClear Member

    Hip hip, hooray!
    • Like Like x 1
  15. jensting Member

    Sounds about right.
    • Like Like x 2
  16. Marty said to Gerry Armstrong: ''You were willing to lie and did. I’m not.''
    How laughable is that?
    Marty Rathbun has spent a lifetime lying through his teeth, caving people in and much worse while enforcing brutally abusive policies and 'Tech' for LRH and Scientology.

    Fully indoctrinated Scientologists lie because it's ''for the greatest good on the greatest number of dynamics to Keep Scientology Working'' at all costs including the price they would pay for not joining in on protecting Hubbard's abusive 'Tech'. All crimes in the wog world mean nothing if they advance the cause, right, Ron?

    Marty quoted LRH policy countless times over the years while personally abusing others and covering up for this criminal cult of the biggest fraud of all time, L. Ron Hubbard as well as his personal brutal enforcement of LRH policy and David Miscavige's orders instead of blaming one of his own and Scientology's biggest targets, Gerry Armstrong.

    It's nice to see him denounce a few of Hubbard's 'teachings' but he hasn't come anywhere close to accepting responsibility for his despicble criminal behavior while in a leadership position for this horrendous scam day after day for many years.

    Marty Rathbun personally 'handled' the Mcpherson case for Scientology for several years, lying and covering up for the cult in Clearwater until this brutal crime went away with a multi million dollar settlement to the family.

    He could go a long way towards making amends by apologizing for every brutal LRH policy he enforced over the years on countless Scientologists. This includes destroying critical evidence in Lisa Mcpherson's death that was caused by the simple enforcement of Hubbard's insane Introspection rundown that killed her and Marty has never even denounced this medically dangerous LRH treatment.

    Marty's still offering his own absurd version of Martytaoisim 'help' to ex-Scientologists which he's been paid for while rambling on with his very own elite horseshit.

    I'd like to see Marty seek real help for himself and the many Scientologists that he's abused over the years instead of trying to personally profit.

    Marty Rathbun and Mike Rinder have claimed to have damaging information on David Miscavige that they withhold as leverage. If they really wanted to help exes they could request immunity and expose ALL that they know about this horrible LRH scam that has harmed so many including themselves.

    How many victims did you two 'cave in' and 'rip a new ass-hole' at David Miscavige's behest that you talk about in your little video chat above? LRH was a big fan of caving people in and fair-gaming them ruthlessly. (E.G. Paulette Cooper, Gerry Armstrong, Atty. Michael Flynn and many others, long before DM was in power)

    I suspect that Marty will accept a gag order on all he knows for cash in Monique's lawsuit for fair-game harassment that Marty himself used to enforse on SP's.

    You've given enough 'help' to Scientologists, Marty, if you really want to help them, leave them alone and get some real help for yourself.
    • Like Like x 3

Share This Page

Customize Theme Colors


Choose a color via Color picker or click the predefined style names!

Primary Color :

Secondary Color :
Predefined Skins