Marty Rathbun Interviewed By Peter Boyle - February 22 2012

Discussion in 'Media' started by Anonymous, Feb 23, 2012.

  1. TinyDancer Member

    I don't really get the Axiom 20 bit. I've had some scn's say to me that "duplicate me" means something along the lines of "understand me", but doesn't mean "agree with me". FWIW.

    Why keep it under lock and key, etc? How else are they supposed to get the big bucks for the secret stuff?

    PS. Was it Jason Beghe who said he didn't believe the Xenu stuff, but thought maybe if he played along that he'd pick up something that Hubbard had picked up? (My language)
  2. RolandRB Member

    quite sure. I think he said that space transportation like that has never existed on the whole track
  3. RolandRB Member

    What, like schizophrenia?
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  4. grebe Member

    That must be awkward, though, feigning belief. It's probably bad for one's conscience.

    The high level of upset from Scientologists when Xenu is mentioned indicates that the story is much more than a mere metaphor.
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  5. RolandRB Member

    Maybe he thought that if he played along he would at last get to the point where he started gaining superpowers. I am sure that was true of a lot of Scientologists on that level.
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  6. grebe Member

    Auditing seems to be a creepy form of psychotherapy in which the auditor induces a transference relationship with a client then encourages suspension of disbelief using odd, loaded structured interview questions. At the moment, I can't think of anything more evil than that.

    Well I take that back. Some people are very lonely and fragile and probably benefit from that kind of S&M relationship.
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  7. DeathHamster Member

    He told himself that he was just feigning belief.

    Then again, a volunteer for a stage hypnotist probably has perfectly rational reasons for stripping to his underwear in front of a room full of people.
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  8. RolandRB Member

    When they say "duplicate me" they mean make a perfect copy of your own. That is not the same as making a perfect copy in the same place. When they want an incident to go away they make a perfect copy of it in their mind and then because they can not both be in the mind then it gets destroyed. But if you are just trying to understand somebody else then you just make the one copy in your own mind.
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  9. Anonymous Member

    it sounds WAY too complicated
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  10. Anonymous Member

    - Miles Davis
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  11. grebe Member

    I've heard the, "what's true for you is true for you," argument from Scientologists several times now. I think that's what Marty was alluding to when he said he didn't "believe."

    It occurs to me that the old Hubbard adage serves as a thought stopper. A Scientologist feels doubtful about something then calls up "what's true for me is true for me," and the unpleasant sense of wariness vanishes. Instead of thinking critically he will wait for a "win" to confirm that he's actually not just been sold a pile of horseshit.
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  12. Anonymous Member

    Yep, but he'll have to accept it all at some point, or he won't make "OT".
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  13. RolandRB Member

    It does not mean "believe what you want". It means more like giving people time to come up to the reality.
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  14. Anonymous Member

    Marty doesn't believe, he knows.
  15. grebe Member

    So let me see if I get this...

    An "incident" is an engram or a memory within my head --e.g., the time I fell off my bike and broke my arm leaving me with a fear of being on the road driving. To remove the effect of this incident from my life, I must create a vivid, dreamlike reliving experience for myself that exactly duplicates the memory of falling and breaking my arm. Then my spirit will let go of the upset associated with that memory and I won't be afraid to drive anymore. The perfect copy or duplicate is that re-living experience that takes the place of the original memory.

    When someone says, "duplicate me," they mean, "copy the information in my head into your own head."

    Is this right?
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  16. Anonymous Member

    Yes, you grokked it correctly.
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  17. Anonymous Member

  18. grebe Member

    Yes, that's how it seems. Scientology is an applied philosophy. Do not accept that it is true --i.e., workable-- until you have used it and proven that it works to your own, personal satisfaction.

    The adage, "what's true for you is true for you," is a promise that the product will perform just as it says on the box. It's similar to the salesman's line, "Don't take my word for it. Buy it and see for yourself."

    "See for yourself," is just another way of saying, "buy it." A neat trick for bypassing critical thinking.
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  19. grebe Member

    Wogs have some tech for testing claims. You might want to learn about this tech as it will really help you with your Xenu question.

    Although wogs aren't as enlightened as Scientologists, they have done a few amazing things. Like getting rid of smallpox, putting men on the moon, and creating the Internet.
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  20. RolandRB Member

    Yes. Fully correct in the second case. Nearly correct in the first case except you last sentence does not end right. The perfect copy is supposed to cancel out the copy of the living experience. They are both the same and in the same place and made of the same stuff so according to axiom 20 they are destroyed (both of them). It is the method for erasing something.
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  21. grebe Member


    You mean the memory itself vanishes once a "copy" is created? That can't be right. You must mean that the emotional charge associated with the memory vanishes.
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  22. Anonymous Member

    It is "as-ised", kinda like when you put matter and anti-matter in the same physical location (were it possible).

  23. RolandRB Member

    Yes, plus the memory itself goes away. This is because you have not only made a copy but you have copied it in the same place and time. You have "as-is"ed it. You have effectively newly created it. And anything you create does not persist unless you alter-is it so by recreating it you as-is it and it disappears because yiou are not making the effort to alter-is it to make it persist.

    You can follow that link to the axioms. It is not a clam web site. It all sort of makes sense after you study it for a while.
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  24. Anonymous Member

    If you use Hubbard's "Learning Drill", you can make yourself accept any data as sensical.

    Roland, usually I enjoy your trolls, but I didn't care for this one. Whatever.
  25. RolandRB Member

    Another way to look at it is that making a perfect duplicate is to strip away the alter-is-ness or not-is-ness. You have returned it to its original state. You have "duplicated" it or "fully understood" it. Duplication gets mixed up with fully understanding in Scientology concepts. If you duplicate a painful incident then if you are duplicating it in its own space and time then you are not making an extra copy of it - you are recreating it where it already is. In other words you have as-is-ed it. And once you have as-is-ed it it will not persist unless you alter-is it or not-is it and so in this way it gets cancelled out because there is no effort made to make it persist.
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  26. RolandRB Member

    I do know all this subject matter. I used to be a Scientologist.
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  27. RolandRB Member

    The axioms of Scientology are very consistent but they do not describe the reality of the human brain and how it stores memories and how it forgets them.
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  28. Anonymous Member

    I highly doubt that.
  29. Diablo Member

    Q: Do you believe in Xenu, the evil intergalatic space lord?

    A: I don't believe in anything...duhhhhhh
  30. Diablo Member

    Q: Do you believe in Xenu, the evil intergalatic space lord?

    A: I believe in covering up deaths that occured at cult locations throughout the world....duhhhhh
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  31. Anonymous Member

    As was I, highly trained in fact, not that it's worth a fuck now.
    I'm just saying that that one line I quoted seemed to suggest that Scientology is a subject matter worth studying or understanding, which it is neither.

    Carry on, then :)
  32. Anonymous Member

  33. grebe Member

    So if you have enough auditing, you won't be able to remember upsetting things that happened to you in the past. I suppose if you want to be a smiling air head, that's a good thing.
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  34. Anonymous Member

    Wait, but scientology helps you to remember everything, including past lives. Doesn't this create a paradox?
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  35. RolandRB Member

    It is up to you which of your past experiences you choose to erase. You would normally choose those you did not want to face where you made postulates or decisions that were counter to your present day survival. In fact that might be the only ones that read on the e-meter. The instant reads on the e-meter are from the automaticities you have postulated into existence to invisibly handle the pictures of past experiences you do not want to face. Actually the basis of this is the R6 bank. It is this automaticity that you are unaware of that holds you back and I am sure you know that this was laid in by the R6 implant. That is why it is essential to as-is it. That is why it is essential that it was discovered for us by LRH who penetrated the Wall of Fire(tm) to get back those memories - the exact time and place - so that we could relive it and as-is it and go free and blah.. blah.. blah...
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  36. RolandRB Member

    No. You have stored facsimiles. You put them there. You collect them but you have no interest in them mostly all of the time. But they might come in useful in the future. They might be fun to look at. So you have kept them for nearly an eternity. If you want to remember past lives then just put your intentions upon them and rediscover them and then you will remember your past lives. Pour yur energy into them and they will come alive and you will remmeber those times you were a space pirate and robbed, killed and raped and laughed as you vaporised mother's babies with your blaster and blah.. blah.. blah...
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  37. It just all sounds so easy! ;)
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  38. RolandRB Member

    The axioms seem to be consistent. I have not noticed a fault in them but I have not spent much energy into looking for faults because they are not useful for describing human life and the formation, keeping and hiding of memories.

    And I thought I would add that past life memories are a load of bollocks even if you can remember them clearly. We are just meat puppets and we live only once like those antelopes you see on the Discovery channel.
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  39. Anonymous Member

    Frege, one of the greatest logicians ever, spent decades developing set theory based on two axioms. In a famous proof five lines long, his axioms were shown by Russel to be inconsistent. If a great mind like Frege can miss an easy inconsistency for decades, I highly doubt a doofus like Hubbard can come up with a collection of consistent axioms.
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  40. Anonymous Member

    Hubbard didn't even know what an axiom was. He just made up a bunch of goo and called them axioms.

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