Marty wants you to start a meet group

Marty wants you to start a meet group

Send your pictures, names, emails etc to Marty with details of your group please:

Re: Marty wants you to start a meet group

Astroturf?

He's moving faster than I thought...

Re: Marty wants you to start a meet group

Sorry Marty but Capt. Bill Robertson beat you to the title of being scientology's Martin Luther!

Re: Marty wants you to start a meet group

you're doing it wrong

the correct version would be:


I'mma let you finnish marty, you're an ok guy, but Capt. Bill Robertson beat you to the title of being scientology's Martin Luther!

Re: Marty wants you to start a meet group

Betcha Marty is gonna send those dox my way once he gets tired of living the vida,boring.

Re: Marty wants you to start a meet group

"ALL ABOARD THE CRAZY TRAIN!"

Re: Marty wants you to start a meet group

So, would this be a... raw meet group?

Re: Marty wants you to start a meet group

It's tempting to denounce Marty for doing his mad cult thing, but this is openly starting a new "church". The little turd (that'd be you David Miscavige) is going to throw a fit over this. This can potentially be big food for lawyers, and Slappy will have to feed those layers.

Hate, fear or like Marty as you feel, but he is doing Anonymous' work a lot easier!

Should he succeed, we can deal with his little mini-cult later.

Re: Marty wants you to start a meet group

.

Re: Marty wants you to start a meet group

Not a bad idea!

Re: Marty wants you to start a meet group

LOL @ freakzone Messiah, Epic. Board is on a roll with the shoops today.

Re: Marty wants you to start a meet group

I believe this is an accurate statement, and it will be interesting to see how things develop.

I'm not sure that Marty is correct when he says:

There is the small matter of the Scientology trademarks and service marks.

Marty seems to think that as long as things remain nonprofit ("there is no fee"), participants will be free from all potential trademark and service mark liability and threats of liability. I'm not sure that is correct. (For example, I'm not sure one could open up a nonprofit, "no fee" Bally's fitness center, or set up a free weekly Bally's "meet up" fitness and exercise group, without fear of potential trademark or service mark liability. I'm not sure that Bally Total Fitness would be pleased. And if Bally Total Fitness would not be pleased, you can imagine how the COS would react given a similar provocation.) Further, the U.S. District Court decision in the Enid Vien case provides at least some evidence that the "freedom of religion" defense is no defense at all.

Further, even if is true that nonprofit ("there is no fee") use of Scientology trademarks and service marks could not lead to liablity, I am also unsure how long things will remain nonprofit, "no fee."

On a slightly different topic, I find the rise of the terms "Independent Scientologist" and "Independent Scientology" to be interesting, and of relatively recent origination. Indeed, I think it was Fluffy (now Voltaire's Child) on ESMB who first started using the term and describing herself in that way. I find it interesting because it implies (and I believe is meant to convey) more doctrinal uniformity than the term "Freezone" (which quite frankly is now all over the map) while at the same time clearly establishing that one (or one's group) is outside of the official Church of Scientology International, Inc., Religious Technology Center, etc.

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ESMB Thread: The legal viability of Marty's "Independent Scientology" meet up strategy

Re: Marty wants you to start a meet group

I HERD CAPT BILL EXTERIORIZED TO HELP LRH CONTINUE THE RESEARCH ON MARS!

Re: Marty wants you to start a meet group

Well it could be that the term "Scientology" and "Scientologist" are not trademarkable. As in they are so common place. And imagine trying to run that in a court and the media reporting that the equivlant of Mormon church is suing people calling themselve mormons.

Now, there are some issues of people being confused in terms of marketing and thinking one of these groups are a sanctioned official "Church of Scientology (TM)" business.

But I'm surprised Marty isn't smart enough to kill two thetans with one stone.. Independent Hubbardologists is the way to go. Then the cult can go suck balls, and you are mocking the fact that CoS isn't Hubbard kosher.

But what kind of loon is trying to collect Freezoner yearbook group shots and being the go-to contact guy. The head of the phone tree. I guess Marty learned very well in the cult that knowledge is power and controlling communication is that way to control his subjects.

Please tell me some awesome Anon is busy shooping together a bunch of photos from WhyaretheyDead to send in that group photo to Marty.

Re: Marty wants you to start a meet group

You may be right. Of course, in dealing with the COS, being legally correct is never enough. If the COS has an arguable basis to sue, it will sue.

I think the use of the term "Independent Scientology" is designed to forestall the "confusion of the consumer" argument. Legally, "Unofficial Scientology" would probably be better, but for the same reason it would probably be better legally, it would certainly be worse from a marketing standpoint.

As I recall, the COS also has the trademark and service mark on the word "Hubbard" as it applies to religious philosophy, religious technology, etc.

Re: Marty wants you to start a meet group

The Freezone was originally the Free Zone, a.k.a. the Galactic Patrol, a.k.a. Ron's Orgs, and then became the Freezone. Nowadays the Freezone is mostly 1) people who advocate the Standard LRH Bridge, and also 2) the Ron's Orgers who advocate the Standard LRH Bridge up to OT 3, and then have their own modified "upper Bridge," based on - according to them - information channelled from Elron Elray (Hubbard) currently in a doll body on the Galactic Confederation Mothership, to Bill Robertson, a.k.a. Captain Bill, a.k.a. CBR, a.k.a. Astar Paramejgian. There is a kind of alliance between these two main factions.

The term "Independent Scientologist" was used in the 1980s before being eclipsed by the term Scientology "Freezone." Anyone can call himself anything, but it's rare to find someone who uses the term "Scientologist" or "Freezone" who does not advocate the "LRH Bridge" (either #1 or #2) complete with Xenu, etc.

Rathbun seems to want a fresh start and, if he follows through, will need to be "putting some ethics in." It remains to be seen if there are enough Freezone Goobers to cooperate with him to make his dream of a new start for In-Tech, In-Policy, On-Source Scientology come true.

In the mean time, he'll be collecting photos and names. Mmmmmmmmmmmmm...

Re: Marty wants you to start a meet group

I can see that if this idea of Marty's is well received we may end up fighting on two fronts. At the moment AFAIAA independent Scientologists are in fact nothing of the kind - they are drop-outs from the CoS. So long as this remains the case then the Freezone will remain an evolutionary dead-end.

But if Marty gets a separate movement going it might have enough impetus to pass on the tech to a new generation of friends and family and people off the streets. And the abuses of CoS will be repeated in the Freezone; watch and see if they ain't. Hubbard was not a clean version of DM; he was the dirty original. Scientology free or otherwise is a dangerous scam.

The history of the Christian church suggests that most independent freaky sideshoots are short-lived and limited in their scope, having to put so much effort into keeping going that they don't have time to proselytise and lack the impact of Big Pharma when they do.

But I think this is a dangerous development. I just want to get rid of Scientology not to see it rising up again in a second coming. If Marty's church takes off they we can no longer treat the Freezone as a harmless helpful option for confused ex-culties.

Re: Marty wants you to start a meet group

I said very early in the Anonymous movement, and have repeated since, that I would be willing to pack it up and go home of the CoS released all of hubbard's writings and recordings as public domain. Now I obviously don't speak for anybody else, and there are plenty of other things to protest about. And I think Scientology in any form will always corrupt itself. I also don't see any real way for the beliefs to spread - it's going to die out, the death-blow has been struck; it might take a while, and further splintering will only accelerate it.

In any case, I think hubbard was a fraud and a charlatan. Any church or philosophy based on his ideas will be inherently flawed to the point where the only means for an organized church to stay afloat would be criminal activity. But if the 'independent scientology' movement manages to make all LRH works public domain somehow, and available to anybody that cares to read them (the curious and the critics), and allows anyone to criticize, summarize, analyze, reproduce, evaluate, study, or use the books as they see fit, I'm calling it a victory.

Until then, what the fuck ever. This is just a new season in the ongoing soap-opera of Scientology - and the ratings are waning.

Re: Marty wants you to start a meet group

I don't really see that happening. For once, should Mary manage to start up an equally abusive cult, then we are just fighting the same enemy, only now it is fighting in amongst itself. Like it or not, Mart is actually one one of our best assets in the fight against the cult.

That does not mean we should forget and forgive. Martys little cult needs to be monitored.

Re: Marty wants you to start a meet group

<3

Re: Marty wants you to start a meet group

That is true to a certain extent, but Scientologists do not take freezoners seriously because they believe freezoners are fucknuts batshit crazy, and they are absolutely correct. Now if we could only get the Sceintologists to realize they are also batshit crazy, we might be on to something, but unfortunately that is not what is happening here. I'd like to see Miscavige get taken away in handcuffs or paint his office wall with the back of his head, just like the next guy, but that will not end the practice of Hubbard's abusive policies, Scientology is built upon them and what Bill Robertson Jr is doing does nothing to dismantle Hubbard's abusive cult.

Re: Marty wants you to start a meet group

Scientology's Lex Luthor, no?

Re: Marty wants you to start a meet group

Re: Marty wants you to start a meet group

I think Marty will end up being Hilter #3 down the line. (Miscavige of course being #2)
I think he was in too long in and has witnessed and contributed to too much abuse, lies and strong arming people to just stay as a nice little auditor that now has a new group of sheeple to run

I think it was Margaret Singer that said, once you break up a bigger cult, you get smaller really nasty cults?
I think Marty has the potentioal of forming one of those nasty little cults. They may not be nasty right away... but I think he misses the power, and once he is fuled enough by adoring sheeple, things will change for the worse. IMO

On the up side, and there isn't many...it will make Miscavige completely and uttery piss himself with anger on a daily basis

Re: Marty wants you to start a meet group

Marty - and for that matter, Scientology - would tell you that it already is in the public domain - and whatever the rest, that you think is "Scientology," *isn't really* Scientology, but just irrelevant tangential material, or "cancelled" old no longer used "ancient history."

Marty would tell you to "come up to present time."

You're half way to being handled by Marty - the expert in handling "wog" emotion and response - let Marty give you a lolly pop and go home.

Re: Marty wants you to start a meet group

^^This!

Re: Marty wants you to start a meet group

Oooo...

Re: Marty wants you to start a meet group

ur doin'it wrong, marty. start an exsci anonymous chapter, then you can be a non-profit and use the 12 steps. *wonders how those steps would read*

Re: Marty wants you to start a meet group

If Marty trying to be a Bill Robertson wannabe was so pathetically sad, it would actually be funny. But these reality challenged fuckbags in the freezone are too pathetic to even laugh at. All they bring to the table is a new level of crazy to add to the freak show. They will do what every possible to shelter Hubbard from the filth his mind control cult perpetrated.

Re: Marty wants you to start a meet group

Surely you know the drill by now -

Marty would explain that the abuses resulted from David Miscavige's "Off Source" (or other "SP" or "infiltrator") "Out Tech" or "Off Policy."

Re: Marty wants you to start a meet group

Initially ? We ? Expansion?
(sounds like Marty has an agenda that he is not sharing with his followers (those who follow his advice/lead)

He is already leader-fagging (as if this wasn't obvious) But I basically just see this as a way to start his mailing list.

I can only assume that he is trying to use the advice of Hubbard managment tech and just "move in and take over".

I think you're right I know larry willershime has quoted her saying something along those lines but what it appears to me is that Marty is trying to orgnize those groups into one group that holds the power of a group with larger numbers.

If there is any legal challenge the entire system, donations could start, so the CoS would be wise to target the individuals, and not the group.

Re: Marty wants you to start a meet group

Yes, perhaps but I like the idea nonetheless.

Re: Marty wants you to start a meet group

I think in Marty’s case he has a decent shot at challenging those copyrights on constitutional grounds. The US government, by enforcing such copyrights, is directly interfering with the religious freedom of Marty and his merry band of whackjobs. After all, if the IRS ‘recognises’ Scientology as a religion then I don’t see how such a case would fail legally.

http://forums.whyweprotest.net/26-think-tank/can-religion-hold-copyright-its-doctrines-28736/

Re: Marty wants you to start a meet group

Marty is using his considerable skills to reconceptualize existing terms in order to paint the same color-by-numbers painting of LRH. His term "The New Scientology" is codespeak for the Freezone. His term "the defiant negative" is codespeak for SP's. Hence, the New Scientology opposes the defiant negative. Because it is weak, the FZ needs a strongman around which it can rally. Marty is that man. To the extent he preaches and practices nonviolence, I applaud him and wish him well.

IMO, Marty's essential problem is that he has not truly word cleared or understood the non-Scientology spiritual books he has read. Marty thinks "native abilities" of Consciousness means that that LRH's Tech and worldview are native to, and resident in, human Consciousness. If I could, I would make Marty do one solid year of Zen, or however long it took, such that he realized that LRH Tech is not native to, or resident in, human Consciousness. Marty will not have a breakthrough until he decouples the Tech from Consciousness and understands that Consciousness exists prior to, and transcends all mind forms.

*****
One of the major reasons Marty is facing some tough sledding is that Scientology is a hothouse flower that he cannot get to grow out here in the real world. Marty need only recall how much isolation and authoritarianism CoS has to use to make Scientology work in order to see how fragile the Tech actually is. The Tech will not withstand everyday life. The Tech is not robust, it is a system wholly dependent upon contrived mental gymnastics done in isolation and graded by the arcane spasms of a needle. Hubbard's fix was to declare Homo Novis and KSW and enforce isolation and a major disconnect with the world, television, newspapers, and even one's own family. Hubbard had to take people out of life and put them in the intense, immersion culture of Scientology for the Tech to have an apparency of working. That the mere criticism or questioning were invalidated as suppression shows the complete vulnerability of the Tech to even basic scrutiny. How good is a "religion" if it cannot stand on its own merits in the real world? Example: The Catholics have 2,000 years of withstanding critical onslaught and attacks. Catholicism can and does exist in the real world. This is not my endorsement of Catholicism; it merely shows that Catholicism is a robust faith that can survive and prosper in the world without all of the isolation, programming, and reality-warping paranoia of Scientology.

Marty thinks that spirituality is natively the Tech. This shows the depth of his CoS programming: He only understands spirituality as the Tech. When one comes from the point of view of Hubbard cosmology, a 1950 invention, they will devolve to authoritarianism as a function of KSW. If Marty wants to look, he will see that what worked for Mr. Hubbard was Book One auditing. That boomed in the 1950's because it was inexpensive Freudian free association, the talking cure, upon which LRH superimposed some lists. Even LRH never produced a Clear in the early years. When LRH did produce the world's first Clear, she failed. The second Clear, John Mc Master, was declared. Eventually, the Clear cog was that one mocked up their own Reactive Mind. This so-called Clear cog was simply Scientology superimposed on the basic realization in Zen: The ego, or mind, is a powerful, yet ultimately non-binding illusion. By observation and detachment one gains distance and perspective on the egoic mind system and sees illusion for what it is. The best LRH could do was to warp Zen and call it Clear. Hubbard then warped some other esoterica to get the L's and the OT levels. To the extent that people cannot see beyond the Tech, they are stuck with trying to make the Tech work. Thus, euphoria is called a win, or, wins are contrived so that one's self, one's auditor, and the group does not lose face. The commitment to Scientology, the need to have faith in the Tech no matter what, becomes the primary goal.

*****
Scientology is not spirituality; it is Scientology processing.

Scientology is not enlightenment; it is case gain achieved from Scientology processing.

In simplest terms: SI/SO: Scientology In = Scientology out. All that can be derived from Scientology is more Scientology. Marty can import the language of science and esoteric spirituality into his writings, but all he is doing is what Hubbard did and that is superimposing Scientology on anything he reads. As the French say, the more things change, the more they remain the same.


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Re: Marty wants you to start a meet group

Trying to give advice to a guru ? are you a guru's guru ?

also what is with the //// 's at the end of your post? the only other person I have seen do that is J. Swift.

You shouldn't make people adapt to other people's philosophy it rude and cultish.

Re: Marty wants you to start a meet group

Can we help Marty die in a fire yet? I have matches.

Re: Marty wants you to start a meet group

Is Marty really stupid enough to think he is the first one who got tossed out of he cult and tried to repackage this pile of shit in order to sell it, or is he just hoping he can find enough numbnuts to believe he is? For his sake I hope it's the latter.

Re: Marty wants you to start a meet group

Marty should know the IRS forced the CoS to transfer copyrights the Inspector General of the RTC, and that was Marty's post I believe.

Re: Marty wants you to start a meet group

Just noticed somebody has newly registered here as "Marty Rugburn".
I so lol'd

/oops derail. Carry on chaps.....

Re: Marty wants you to start a meet group

So we destroy the tech completely...

Corporal! Fetch me my field knife....