Mike Rinder's new blog: Something Can Be Done About It

Discussion in 'Independent Scientology' started by Anonymous, Mar 20, 2013.

  1. jensting Member

    The following comment was approved and has stayed up for a day now. Good.

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  2. Anonymous Member

    Over at ESMB - which was once a pretty cool place, and still is, in a way, IMO - the recurring mantra is that 6 month checks began with Miscavige. Anyone who suggests otherwise is ignored or shouted down.

    How come you don't post there any more?

    More people are needed to present a realistic picture of Scientology on that MB.
  3. Gottabrain Member

    There are plenty of awesome posters at ESMB and still plenty of valuable threads and information.

    The WWP Scientology forum is mostly made up of never-been-ins, with some fully out ex's and a few nearly outs. This results in a more objective forum. Dox or GTFO, basically. I've been out too long to relate easily to the scn mindset so this forum is more comfortable for me.

    Oh, And I love Anons. (Though I love most of those at ESMB, too)
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  4. Anonymous Member

    You are missed on ESMB. A lot of people would love it if you'd drop by now and then.
  5. Anonymous Member

    Gottabrain.... How come you removed your moniker 'Gottabrain' from the members' list?

    That makes it very difficult for someone to locate and see your many fine posts, and see the videos you posted.

    At least if you were still listed as a member, someone could see the sequence of your posts, and easily locate them.

    I'm not even sure that a search function would work on 'Gottabrain' posts unless you're listed as a member.

  6. Anonymous Member


    Also true. :)

    Recent ex-'s need somewhere to go which isn't as hostile to Scientology as WWP (quite deservedly hostile in my opinion, but still). ESMB does a great job of fulfilling that need.
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  7. Gottabrain Member

    OK Guyz...

    I blush at the appreciation. Never thought my posts stood out much at ESMB, so thanks.

    It was up to the administration how to handle my ESMB membership when I quit. I wasn't booted. I wasn't mistreated. I have nothing but kind comments for ESMB. The administrators should get medals and a lifetime supply of caek and ice cream. That's a hard forum to run with the mix of ex's and newly-outs and I truly appreciate ESMB, esp. Veda, HH, Syn, and the rest. They are my friends. No hard feelings. Truly.

    I quit because, quite simply, the scn talk and some of the scn reactions occasionally make me spinny. I've been out TOO LONG to easily think that way - it's like putting my brain through a sieve and blender. I choose not to do that to myself, that's all. Arguing with those who still think like scns annoys the shit out of me! A few people talk in circles forever. Those 3 or 4 people are DIEHARD CULTISTS and they ooze their phlegmatic dissociated fog onto ESMB constantly. Sometimes I just want to throttle them and say WAKE THE FUCK UP! I'm not the only one who feels that way, but I'm way ruder than the others and have far less patience. Doesn't exactly bring out the best in me and I don't like being that way, either.

    Bottom line is I'm not good with newbs or those who can't/won't think outside the box. I don't have the patience, I've been out TOO LONG to easily relate. Others are better at this and I commend them for it, but I'm not going to force what doesn't come naturally to me. It's not them, it's me, okay? I tried, I really did, but probably offended more newly-outs or those with issues or who still BELIEVE IN THE TEK. Talking to them affects me like sardines and mustard after a late Saturday night = BARF!! That's just unhealthy.

    Call it selfish,but to me it's self-preservation. I respect my stomach and my peace of mind more than I wish to speak to these nut cases. I've had enough of toxic cultists to last the rest of my life.

    If that doesn't answer everything for you, please PM me.

    Now back on topic - Mike Rinder. He's actually a nice guy. Friggin' sad case, though. Grew up in Scn, all those years running the Guardian's Office. He still can't deal with the fact he spent most of his life swallowing horseshit from a con-artist, but I don't hate him. Never personally knew him to hurt anyone and he was kind to staff when the opportunity to be nice would come along. So I give him more leeway than maybe I should and a bit of compassion - but he always had a heart and I think he was going along and almost having a normal life until Rathbun tracked him down to join his group. Rathbun went out of his way to track down every ex he could that ever had stature. Some had been completely out of scn and reverted afterward.

    I wish Mike Rinder a great life with his family and I hope he gets all he missed out on. Don't know why he started the blog, but I wish he'd take some time off and catch up on all the wonders of life he missed instead. It's hard for exSO to think that way, self becomes such a black hole, but IMHO, that's exactly why he needs to do just that.
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  8. amaX Member

    Leave Gottabrain alone.
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  9. TrevAnon Member

    Nice to read what you write, Gottabrain. :)

    I started out here [or better: on enturb], later registered on ESMB and feel fine on both forums. On ESMB however I choose not to read the discussions about teh tech, because I don't understand half what they write - sometimes being a non-native English speaker is a blessing :) .

    Every now and then I post on an Indie blog.

    Guess my next stop will be the Church site itself or signing up at the small and failing Amsterdam org.... :p
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  10. Anonymous Member

  11. fishypants Moderator

    No discussion about 'the tech' makes sense, because 'the tech' doesn't make sense. It is literally nonsensical.

    Just replace the discussion with 'bullshit bullshit bullshit' and you'll be right there.
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  12. Anonymous Member

    OK. That's a demonstration of one brain cell being used. Here's an idea... Try using more than one brain cell at a time.
    This message by Anonymous has been hidden due to negative ratings. (Show message)
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  13. fishypants Moderator

    How would that help me in understanding a discussion of Hubbard's made-up 'tech'?

    Such a discussion makes no sense because it has no basis in the real world. It's based in a fantasy world in which Hubbard's 'research' exists and is valid.

    In the real world, there is no 'tech' - it's just a con.

    There was no research and there is no Scientology technology.

    So even if the use of additional brain cells were helpful in understanding the fiction of Hubbard's 'tech', I'm not convinced it would be a worthwhile investment of intellectual resources, given the 'tech' is utterly worthless to everyone except the con-man.

    I suppose it could be useful if I intended a career in fraud, like Hubbard - is that what you meant?
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  14. For all the millions of words, the grandiose claims, and the megalomaniac visions, this is what it boils down to. All worthless bollocks.
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  15. fishypants Moderator

    Exactamundo. It's just exactly as useful as this:

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  16. Anonymous Member

    It's a bit like astronomy. It's an elaborate system that you can spend years studying and if your confirmation bias is strong enough it will keep proving itself to you.

    If you step back and try and look objectively it collapses into useless twaddle.
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  17. whitesand Member

    I think Mike started his blog as a prelude to writing a book. He's testing the waters to see if people are interested in what he has to say, and he has a young family to support now. If he thinks it will sell, then he will write it. Many other exes have done the same, and Marty has at least 2 books out. OK, I will put away the crystal ball now.
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  18. Horseradish Member

    Mixing up your 'ologies' and 'onomies'?
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  19. I also was asking myself why Rinder would do this because I know better than to buy into the bollocks about him crusading in "doing the right thing", which is his line from several interviews (including Ortega's). I agree with whitesand that he's testing the waters to write a book. Like Rathbun, I refuse to give the guy site links let alone give him money for a book, nice guy or not.

    I don't mind the silliness at ESMB because I can choose to ignore those particular threads and posts that are cultie cult cult in nature, but I did wonder why you (Gottabrain) didn't post there. Putting fingers in ears Tek works for me most of the time although there have been rare moments where I just can't keep my mouth shut. I feel more at home here at WWP but I sometimes like the hugbox nature of ESMB.
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  20. Gottabrain Member

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  21. rickybobby Member

    Um, think you mean Astrology.
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  22. fishypants Moderator

    Either that or Patrick Moore is currently doing 95RPM.

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  23. Anonymous Member

    Oops. Yes, that changes the meaning quite significantly. To clarify: Scientology and astrology are dumb.
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  24. LIKE :)
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  25. Horseradish Member

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  26. Anonymous Member

    I prefer Zymology.
  27. Anonymous Member

    It's alright to express love.
  28. Give the kid a break. Mercury was in retrograde that day...
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  29. Gottabrain Member

    I get that, Anon, but people are different. I don't need handling. Srsly, I'm fine. Thanks anyway.
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  30. Anonymous Member

    Marty, go fly a kite or DIAF. no love for that prick. fuck him.
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  31. Gottabrain Member

    Agreed. I think he will keep his word.

    Mike Rinder and Mark Rathbun are very different people and behaved differently in the SO as well - despite very similar positions. It would be nice if people wrote of their personal experiences with both so you and others could see this.

    My experience with Rathbun was when I was 16 and he was in his early 20s, new to the GO and new to the SO. He enjoyed the power of intimidating me and others. I have not forgotten.

    I never worked closely with Mike Rinder. We were introduced once - he was down to earth. I barely remembered him and seriously doubt he would have remembered me.

    But he did one very nice thing for me that I won't forget.

    I had given birth to my son in 1982 and saved a couple of weeks of the maternity time to see my parents and introduce them to their first grandson. I also had the annual 3 weeks leave. Total time off = 5 weeks.

    After completing the entire routing form, sec checks and everything, the Commanding Officer AOLA of that time - a veteran USGO staff member and battleaxe bitch, Val Lisa, refused to sign the last line on my routing form and said she would declare me SP if I went.

    My plane tickets and visit were all set up. I went.

    She immediately declared me SP and even took it a step further - she personally worked my husband over for hours while I was gone to convince him I was an SP, too.

    I knew a couple of people in the GO and had one direct phone number. I called.

    That staff member had my declare cancelled immediately - with Mike Rinder's personal approval. There were no repercussions to me afterward, either.

    Mike did this out of a sense of fairness, despite the fact he worked side-by-side with Val Lisa for over ten years and didn't even know me.

    I can't imagine Mark Rathbun ever doing something compassionate like that in his entire 25 plus years in OSA.

    I realise Mike Rinder may have hurt others, but he gave our son his father back. He may not have been the greatest father, but he was the only one my son had and he loved him. So thanks, Mike. For his sake.

    So yeh, I'm a bit softer on Mike Rinder. In all fairness, there are probably others who saw an entirely different side to him, though.
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  32. Anonymous Member

    Sheila, while I agree that it would be helpful to read personal stories about Rinder (like yours here) in order to humanize him, I simply cannot get over the image of Rinder ruthlessly ripping apart families and ordering his cadre of PIs to harass and badger innocent people. He may a likable guy and more affable than Rathbun, but even Larry Leighton spent time in prison for following the orders of Jim Jones and shooting people at the Port Kaituma airstrip. I'm sure plenty of people found him likable too, but that doesn't mean that he didn't have to face justice.
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  33. Anonymous Member

    Jesse Prince has posted that thanks to Lawrence Wright's book, he sees Rinder differently. Where as previously, his opinion on Mike was NOT favorable.


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  34. Gottabrain Member

    Oh I'm with you. I don't mean to make excuses for either Mike or Marty. Hundreds or more staff turned down such dirty work, didn't know it existed and if they knew, would have not only refused, but reported it as "out tek" - we were mostly all stupid and naive about what actually went on. Other staff (I can think of a dozen I knew) went out of their way to cancel SP declares, to keep personal things private and to keep things happy and families together.

    Get the idea of a bunch of hard-hitting, abusive execs spreading havoc and upset everywhere and everyone else trying to repair the damage. Constantly.

    I think being fair means for those who Mike or Marty harassed or whose families he broke apart and any of their personal victims to have their day of justice. I believe both of them are accountable to society and to the victims for breaking laws, too. Most staff that I knew didn't do such things and wouldn't - whether ordered or not. One refuses a mission, or says he did something and didn't, or does a sec check and doesn't write everything down word for word, or requests a transfer elsewhere, or just takes the heat personally for saying no or for letting your staff get some sleep and leaving the white glove cleaning for another day or a person can just blow. I've done all of these except the blow bit. Heaps of staff have. Many of us broke lots of rules in the 70s and 80s just out of decency.

    When someone or other comments on their blogs and says they would have done the same thing as Marty or Mike, my reaction is, there's another one with a criminal mentality. That person is admitting that he or she has NO personal code of ethics, no sense of compassion, no respect for the law, others or society, and would smash and ruin anybody or break any law, with or without reason, just because someone told them to do so. The majority of people have limits on how far they will go. Sure, those limits get stretched, pushed, your mind gets fucked with, inch by inch. But people still have limits.

    What I wrote wasn't about personality. I barely remember Rinder and I was nobody to him. Mike approved something unusual to keep a family with a newborn together. It was his action - not his personality, that made me believe he was a decent guy.

    And parts of that bit of history still nag me. I know Val Lisa was a vicious woman, a power in the GO for decades, who personally destroyed countless lives. She had a lot to do with what happened to the missions. So why would Rinder stand up to her if he was just like her? Doesn't make sense if Mike was really the one behind broken families, SP declares, destroyed lives. Who really ordered that stuff? Who had a noose around Rinder's neck (did anyone, or not)? Who was the bloodthirsty animal here - was it really Mike Rinder?

    I'd like to see Mike Rinder apologise to his victims and offer full explanations. I'd like to see him offer any testimony he can give on the criminal things that occurred in his time, too. I want facts and hope he will still deliver them. I don't forgive him for what he did to others and won't until he does so. But he did not hurt me.

    In Marty's case, I'm satisfied that with or without orders, he would have done those vicious things we know, so many more that we don't know, without any guilt and he will never, ever experience true remorse for any of it, but continue strutting around like some pouter pigeon hiding behind his followers, blaming it all on DM and shitting all over any concept of legal or societal justice with his spiritual propaganda.

    I hope I've made it clear that Mike doesn't get a free pass from me. I just find it puzzling that he could be so contradictory in his actions and I think a lot of others were involved that he hasn't yet named and should - including L Ron Hubbard, Mary Sue and their top dogs of the time.

    In Mike's time, there were a bunch of command structures - CMO, RTC, WDC, the GO (later OSA), Exec Strata...he didn't really have the power you might think. I want to know the truth of what happened, that's all. So the abusers can pay their due.

    Marty, on the other hand, mostly acted on his own - only had DM to answer to. So he blames DM. Convenient, but nonsense. Marty was, in his day, nearly as viscious as DM.
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  35. Mike Rinder wants to continue selling Hubbard's bogus abusive 'Tech' and apply his 'new found' version of the scam, picking and choosing from Hubbard's abusive policies as he sees fit while taking advantage of ex-scientologists who finally have a chance to escape the severe Scientology indoctrination and insane processing that has controlled them for so long.

    Mike Rinder should be seeeking help not offering it for sale, imean accepting 'donations' to end the abuses (Give me a Break!) that he himself inflicted upon so many for decades as one of Hubbard's henchmen.

    Google: Mike Rinder / Introspection Rundown

    Google: L. Ron Hubbard / Abusive Children's Policies

    Scientology has been a brutal aggressive scam from jump st. based on the lies and quack medicine of a hypocritical madman who was convicted of fraud.

    I'd like to see all ex-scientologists recover from the mindfuck of LRH, not 'donate' to the continuation of the scam under Rathbun and Rinder who have not denounced much of Hubbard's medically dangerous' 'Tech' like the introspection rundown that killed Lisa Mcpherson and the medically dangerous 'Purification Rundown' used in front group Narconon and required 'treatment' for ALL scientologists.

    Mike, How about Narconon, the LRH Introspection and teh 'purif', any thoughts on this holy trinity, care to denounce them all?

    Please stop scamming ex-scientologists and move on from the LRH scam, kthx.

    Word Clear: Scientology
    Definition: Fraud

    "Something Can be Done about It" Yes, indeed, get a real job and move on from Hubbard's mental abortion.
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  36. Anonymous Member

    to me Rathbun and Rinder are both a couple of coward conmen trying to make a buck instead of getting a real job
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  37. DeathHamster Member

    Just like Punchy Miscavige.
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  38. Anonymous Member

    Thanks, Sheila, yes you've made things very clear and I've not seen you ever give someone of Mike's stature in the cult a free pass. I trust your judgment and insight 100% more than I trust the Rinderburn show. You've been honest (from what I can see, but I don't know you personally) and upfront about what you saw and what you participated in, which is a very rare mix for an ex-Scientologist. I actually look more to your posts for the true inside story than theirs because they still have an agenda (driven by their narcissism and need to stay out of prison).

    I hope that you continue to come back here and voice your opinions on these two fools. It does help to read insider stories, even the good ones, so I appreciate what you do for us here.
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  39. Gottabrain Member

    Oh wow. :blush: Thanks! I've made my share of mistakes and still do, but I am earnestly trying to learn from the past and from those who have the experience, objectivity, information or a fresh perspective that I may lack (and often do).

    No way would I ever leave WWP. So glad to hear my posts are appreciated. Likewise, the rational objectivity and intelligence I find here are always helpful and I thank you and others for your time and insights.

    I'm still perplexed that so many ex-Scns fall into formation with the former Flag and upper SO execs' opinions and statements accepted without question. Just like the old days.

    I guess old habits die hard.
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  40. Anonymous Member

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