Military armoured anti-riot vehicles supplied to Iran from China

Discussion in 'News And Current Events' started by AMERICAN FOR FREEDOM, Dec 31, 2009.

  1. A Note about the Armoured Vehicles from China to Iran � Persian2English's Blog

    Apparently the Chinese government doesn't want the regime to be overthrown so they rushed these anti-riot vehicles to surpress further protests.

    "The armoured anti-riot vehicles have a capacity of 10,000 liters to shoot cold and hot water, and three 100 liter tanks to shoot burning chemical liquids. The water is mixed with paint or tear gas that cannot be washed away. Each vehicle has two guns for shooting liquid up to a distance of 70 meters- it is controlled from inside the cabin. The price tag for each unit is 650,000 dollars. Also, a lot of extra burning liquid, paint, and tear gas was purchased."
  2. If these riot assault vehicles ever make it into Iran, they could be major trouble. The Greens need to prepare for this, because this year these vehicles could lead up to the largest Iran government crackdown in history.

    The last time riot vehicles were used when the Shah was in power to drive out the Islamists in 1979, but failed.
  3. Coyote-IRAN Member

    I would suggest studying this document:

    Bodyhammer-Tactics and Self Defense for the Modern Protester

    The best way to counter an APC like this is to disable it and take it out of the picture. I would suggest luring them into narrow streets or between obstacles that are too narrow for them to turn around in, and then trapping them there from the front and behind with cars or barriers of some sort. Then come at them from the areas where the canons cannot point, preferably after the crews have abandoned them, and set them on fire from the inside. Burn their guts.

    You have to plan it well in advance and carry it out right, but it can be done.

    These things have to be expensive. Ruining them would really cost the regime a pretty penny. That would be such a shame.
  4. AStranger Member

    At least the Chinese government's not giving the vehicles for free...

    Anyhow, we'll have to see how the Greens deal with these things. Maybe Coyote's right.
  5. ramin.ger Member

    OMG burning liquid was purchased too.
    Yes i think so too. Maybe Coyote is right...
  6. Here's a pic of two of them. They cost $650,000 each.

    Attached Files:

  7. ManBearPig Member

    Coyote, you beat me to it. Someone with good knowledge about these machines should put together a quick how-to-disable flier and have it translated into farsi. There have to be some exposed hydraulics and vulnerabilities to the pressurizing devices within it. Let the regime see that money can't buy them power.
  8. Just a suggestion

    I'm no expert but I would start with puncturing the front tires making turning difficult. Since they are probably supplied with self mending tires, conventional spike strips would be ineffective. They would roll over them puncturing them but as soon as they are off of them they would mend themselves. So my idea is to use "scored" flooring screws that will snap off as the vehicle moves forward leaving the threaded part in the tire allowing air out along the threads. Here's a link to the screws I've used.

    Stop Floor Squeaks Carpeted Floors Hardwood Floors
  9. Coyote-IRAN Member

  10. Coyote-IRAN Member

  11. SundayEdition Member

    Would it be more important to try to stop the vehicle first, or to stop whatever liquids said vehicle might be shooting?
  12. Ralim Member

    The liquids are probably more of a concern, because they have more unknown properties than the movements of the vehicles themselves. It would be likely that they would spray boiling water, acid or other such irritants, as they reportedly had from helicopters in the opening days of the uprising; ordinary water would be too soft in the face of the Green Protesters.

    I am no expert in these matters though, but I know in summary that these considerations should be taken into account:

    1. Weak-spots, esp. visible
    2. Blindspots, esp. as a means of evasion
    3. On-road capabilities of the vehicles, especially maneuverability
    4. Behaviour of anti-riot vehicles, esp. that of past IRG/Basiji-driven vehicles
    5. Behaviour of IRG/Basiji inside and around anti-riot units
    6. Tools available to protesters, esp. for disabling
    7. Potential hazards that will arise from confronting these anti-riot vehicles
  13. Coyote-IRAN Member

    If they spray normal water, it comes out with enough force that you can't move if it is hitting you. They have the two cannons on the top, and probably one in the back that shoots straight back. The whole back is a tank, and the cab is where the people will be. They may have people on bikes, foot, or in other vehicles protecting the sides, which are the weak spots. If you come in from the sides and then forward right along the edge of the vehicle, you can get to the cab.

    They have a big plow on the front for plowing through vehicles and weak buildings. It may be possible to high-center them, but they are more likely to just plow through whatever may high center them.

    Covering the windshields with something that sticks there and burns or just blocks their view, like sticky tar or thick motor oil that takes time to flow off, would be a good start, if you could get that close safely. And if they have to get out of the cab to clean it off, then you can get into the cab and light it on fire.
  14. Coyote-IRAN Member

    I, personally, found this video to be very stupid. But it does show the anti-riot vehicles and what they can do pretty well. The guy is an artist, and he talked them onto using two of these vehicles to do a "ballet" with their water cannons. The ballet is at the end. Starts at about 4:40.

    Here's another video that shows what they can do.

  15. Coyote-IRAN Member

    You know, I am most worried about them knocking people down and then running them over with these things, or just plowing through crowds. They have already demonstrated they are willing to do that with their other vehicles, these ones just make them more effective at it. They don't want to set all of Tehran on fire. I don't think they'll use flammables, because of the collateral damage. They will use colored water with paint mixed in, though, and possibly acid and irritants. They want to mark people with the paint to make it easier to find them later with the foot troops and motorcycle troops.
  16. These can be used to flatten the tires also. Easily made out of bent pipe welded together.

    Attached Files:

  17. ManBearPig Member

    FFA, nice. Yeah it would have to be more than just spikes. More specifically, hollow metal that can make the tires go flat instantly.
  18. SundayEdition Member

    I don't know what sort of blindspots these vehicles would have, they seem to have several mirrors that can see almost all the sides. The only blindspot I can think of would be the back.

    I don't drive, so I don't know if this would even be plausible: would it be possible to stop the truck by somehow getting a various instrument (rebar/metal posts/wood posts/explosive) into the grill to mess up whatever is behind the grill?

    My other thought is trying to get something wound up in the axles to bring the vehicle to a stop so protesters can get in to burn them. My visualization of this is similar to the wire they use to help land planes on aircraft carriers.

    If the cannons can't be stopped, and irritants/acids are getting sprayed, people should be advised to start carrying baking soda to help neutralize the effects. I don't know how well it works, but I've heard that milk can also help with burns as well.
  19. Coyote-IRAN Member

    Best way is to burn them in their garages.

    They have run flat tires, so the only tire damage that will stop them is something that completely shreds the tires all the way, which is not likely. The chain/thick wire idea is worth trying.

    One thought, they can put out fires with their water cannons, but if you make barricades out of burning tires, rubber is very hard to put out once you get it burning and it puts out a thick black smoke. If you fill the inside of the tires with something that burns long and slow, too, like motor oil, that makes the tires even harder to put out. And if they drive through these burning barricades or even smoldering rubber after the open flames have been put out, the melted rubber and oil is going to stick to them and their tires, and possibly set their own tires on fire if it sticks on them long enough.

    That's a good start. If they drive through these kinds of barricades it is also going to make any footmen on the sides of them back away, because they can't walk through the hot rubber, and that will clear the sides up for sneak approaches where more burning material can be directly applied to the sides of the vehicle. Maybe in the space between the vehicle and the cab, or on the windows.

    You can make a nice sticky burning goo with gasoline and flaky laundry soap. Have to be very careful you don't get any of it stuck on you, though, so I'd suggest a lot of practice before trying to apply any of it to something like this.

    These things can be stopped, though. Sabotage is the safest way. If there are any military with any compassion for their people at all, they will do this. Would you rather they hose people down with the water cannons and then run them over? You know they will do this.

    There is always the potato in the tailpipe. It either sticks there a while and shoots out like a shot, or it makes the vehicle stall and stop running.
  20. Hi. I've read the suggestions on this thread. I must say that you all deserve much respect for thinking this problem through.

    Just a few comments before I give you what we have.

    Re puncturing tires: Good thinking. These tires are likely puncture proof however and can drive for hundreds of miles before going flat. Also where are the people going to purchase the heavy duty three-pronged spikes? (We try to suggest things that people can make from school supplies, housecleaning supplies, or home repair supplies.)

    Re jamming the axles: Good thinking. The chassis is probably armoured from beneath however. Also the axles are probably hellishly strong. So no joy there either.

    A small group of us have had extensive discussions on twitter about what will work against these monsters.

    1) One idea was about how to get the water in the water tanks to turn into steam and rupture the tank walls. No joy there.

    2) Another idea was about how to blow the gas cap off the gas intake. No joy there either.

    Also, with (1) and (2) there is a problem with optics.

    To have enough force to accomplish these two goals it is pretty well necessary to build bombs. None of us want to go there. And I am sure the green movement does not want to go there either. Also, it is really hard for people to get the right equipment. It is dangerous. And if folks are caught by the security forces with this stuff on them, then they are in for a world of hurt.

    So that leaves us with (3).
  21. (3) is about obscuring the windshield and the side windows. Permanently. If the driver cant see where he is going, he can't go anywhere and the bombardier can't aim his water cannon.

    @TNTIran @3fatcats and @manydrums worked this idea out in twitter discussions. The interesting thing is, that they are not the only ones who thought of this. It also appeared here: انقلاب می کنم: ماشین های آبپاش خریداری شده توسط پلیس ایران را بشناسیم و راه های از کار انداختن آنرا بررسی کنیم and khabarresani - طریقهٔ مقابله با ماشین‌ها و ادوات مورد استفادهٔ رژیم برای سرکوب مردم (@lissnup gave us a general translation.)

    It is simple enough to work. It uses easy-to-get materials. It is done from long range thus affording some protection from the water cannons.

    Against windshields, side windows of anti-riot tanks

    The regime just bought these anti-riot tanks from the Chinese: They are armoured above, below, and all around. They have long-range water cannons which shoot boiling water or teargas. This video shows them in action: YouTube - Clash between police and Kurdish hundreds arrested and injured in Turkey 14/12/2009

    How to stop them? Throw paint/blue balloon bombs against their windshields, side windows. Here is a slow motion video of a balloon bomb using water instead of paint/glue. You will use paint/glue. YouTube - slow mo water bomb

    Supplies needed:

    childrens paint:
    or acrylic paint:
    kitchen funnel:
    or cake decorator:
    or cut whole in corner of plastic bag:
    small waterbomb balloon kits for children:

    How to make:

    Thin some construction glue by adding water. Just enough to make it run easily into the balloon necks. Add green tempera-paint powder (the kind they use for teaching art to children in schools). Or, for extra horribleness, use acrylic paint. Mix up well.

    To get it into the balloons: pour through a kitchen funnel -- or squeeze through a plastic cake decorator or a sandwich bag with the corner cut off. The balloons need to have enough mixture inside so that the rubber is tight and easy to break. Tie off balloons.

    Throw balloons at windshields, side windows. HARD so the rubber breaks on impact!

    If you want something smaller than a balloon, easier to conceal, easier to break on impact: then try eggs. Fill them using a syringe and needle. Tape over the needle hole. Eggs are even easier to hide than balloons.

    You will need a large group of people throwing the balloons at the same time.
    Keep as far away as you can. To make a quick getaway and to protect yourself from the water cannons, throw the balloons from moving cars.

    Now the paint/glue will dry quickly. But it wont dry immediately. This is a bonus however. Why? Because the driver and bombardier will try to wipe it off. They will then rub their hands on their clothes to get the paint/glue off and everything will get sticky. Once it does dry, it will take a jackhammer to get it off. I know. I used to teach art.
  22. Now some of you are doing the math. You're thinking about those face shields that the security forces have been wearing. Good!

    Because you can throw these paint/glue balloons directly onto those face shields. In a few minutes the security officers will be forced to abandon their face shields.

    Why is this a good thing?

    Because their throats and faces are now exposed. We are not advocating that you attack the security forces in anything but self-defence. If they go for you with a baton -- or worse, we are now seeing knives -- you have every right to defend yourself. In fact, it is life affirming to defend yourself.

    Because the security forces have probably tried to wipe the paint/glue off their shields, they have probably also got glue all over their gloves and forearm guards. If they take those off, those parts are also exposed.

    That offers more targets for you to take these guys down and make sure they stay down. Sounds harsh, but you want to make sure they stay down because you dont want them pursuing you or others.

    It has to be logical. Right?

    We have some preliminary information on very basic self-defence. I am going to look around and see where I can post it. I'll be back soon.
  23. If anyone can translate what I have posted and leave it here, we would be very very grateful. People have been expressing concern about how we are actually going to get this information to the people who need it most.

    We would also be grateful for any effort you put into spreading this information, privately and through your social network systems.

    Thank you for your kindness in reading this.
  24. Negargar Member

    It's worrisome because of the lives it would endanger, but escalating the situation would be disasterous for the regime.

    The Shah faced a population almost a third of the current population but it didn't survive the protestors' resolve, ... about 70% of the population is under age of 30 and they are determined. People still remember how they defeated a regime that, with its imperial army and its guns and tanks seemed to be invincible . And they defeated it at the height of its power, after it eliminated all the political parties and its opponents.

    Iranian people are creative and dtermined, they will find ways to deal with this threat too.
  25. Negargar Member

    I'm new in this forum, I'm posting some ideas that I posted on another site here as well ....

    Every vehicle or equipment has some vulnerability ... nothing is invincible.

    1 - Three prong nails for tires

    2 - Balloons or small plastic bags,

    Any of these filled with paint or sticky resins. You can also use light industrial products that are used in woodworking shops. Oil based Paint can be mixed with grease or oil to make it very sticky and nasty. Some water-based paints might also be useful because they dry faster (acrylic for example). Additives can be added to the paint to make it dry faster and harder to scrape off the windshield.

    3 - Sling Shots ~

    Water canons are effective in keeping the crowds at a further distance. But to protect the vehicles they still need to have guards and basijis on bike around them. An ancient technique that is today as effective as it was 3000 years ago is sling shot. Sling shots can throw both stones, small rocks and plastic bags filled with various materials. It takes a little practice but if the teenage David learned to use it against Goliath, so can everybody else!

    4 - Cocktail Molotov for self defense

    Iranians are smart and they are showing a lot of self-control. On Ashoura holiday the guards fired at someone's face and killed him with shrapnel , people reacted and disarmed the guards but eventually let the guards go. But things are going to escalate and self defense will become more and more critical. Everybody is entitled to self defense in the face of this brutal machinery. Another way to fight these vehicles would be to use cocktail molotov to force the guards to leave the cabin and abandon the vehicle. The vehicle can then be destroyed.
  26. Ralim Member

    If using the glue-paint method, make sure that the paint is green. =D
  27. Coyote-IRAN Member

    The glue-paint thing is a very good idea. And better than flammables to obscure the windows. They can put flammables out with their water cannons, so you need a lot of it, probably to much to carry or make if you're just planning to use it on the windows.

    I think going for the tires is a bad idea, because of the way they are built. Trapping the vehicles by luring them into tight spots would work better, but these things can ram through normal buildings and cars. There's a chance they could get stuck in a moderately constructed building if they tried to ram through it, however. There are ways to physically trap them, but you need really heavy, sturdy obstacles that they can't get through.

    The main goal I think, is to use tactics to draw anyone who is around the vehicles guarding them away, then to get the drivers and gun operators to open the doors of the cab so you can get inside the vehicles, and set the insides of the cabs on fire. Once the interiors of the cabs are set on fire the whole vehicle is out of service and it is going to cost a lot to repair or replace it. Blinding the windows is not as expensive to repair for them, but it does serve to get them to open the doors and provide access to the interior of the cab. And mixing paint with glue, that is genius. That is an excellent idea. The less transparent what you are throwing is, and the stickier and faster it dries the better.

    Save the flammables for the interior once you can get inside.
  28. Hi Coyote.

    Burning the cab once the officers open the door: we thought of that. Obscuring the windshield and side windows with paint/glue would go a long way to getting the officers to open the door and exit the cab.

    But probably officers manning a specialized truck like that would be armed with automatic weapons. When they come out of their blinded vehicle, they are going to be madder than a moose in rut. Bottom line: people should not be anywhere near the truck.

    1) Throwing the paint/glue balloons allows people to keep their distance.

    2) Using small cars from which to throw the balloons allows the people to keep the boiling water off them.

    Some ideas have surfaced elsewhere. All of them require people to get close to the vehicle and so really puts people at risk -- needlessly. Some don't take into account how well engineered and sturdy these trucks are.

    But there MAY be one exception.

    The officers are coming out the SIDES of the truck. Right?

    The BACK of the truck is a blindspot. If there is some way to get a team of people BEHIND the truck... some way of wedging something under the chassis... someway of jamming the rear axel... some way of tipping the truck over...

    Anybody have any ideas?
  29. Hi Coyote again.

    As for getting flammables into the cab or anywhere on the truck...

    ...let's be really careful about this. I really think we should follow the people's lead. They have their own values. They have their own risk assessment.

    What have we seen on youtube so far? People setting fire to dustbins, tires, one police station. Nothing that could be seen to be... er... chemically engineered. Nothing complicated. Nothing dangerous. And nothing which adversely affects the optics of the movement.
  30. Hi Coyote again. Yes repairing the paint/glued windows is easily done. Actually not. They would have to be replaced. But that too is easily done.

    By the way, once it is dry, that glue is never coming off. The windows have to be taken out and new windows have to be put in.

    However blinding the truck means that that truck is out of service for the day and thousands of people can protest without being boiled alive. Replacing the windows will probably keep the truck out of service for... well... some time, depending on how bad the bureaucracy is.

    Also, when the truck is towed back to the garage, the officers could face serious discipline for allowing their truck to be damaged.

    Also, getting the paint/glue operation on youtube makes for terrible optics for the regime. Imagine a small group of unarmed protesters taking down a monster tank like that? It would end the sideswipes that the green movement is a disorganized mob. (They aren't)
  31. Frylock-IRAN Member

    Nice work bugs and others, on the tires, they are filled with a thick liquid but it will only flow and block small holes and gashes. This works.

    Make the spikes out of 1/2 inch thick walled plumbing pipe or nipples. Use a torch to bend them and weld them into the tri pattern. Sharpen each end with a grinder or file to a sharp angle. (not a point since they have a half inch tubing hole,) just take one side and make a sharp flat spot, think sharpening a chisel but way more aggressive of a angle.

    Now you have a half inch hole to drain the tires that will not close. THIS IS IMPORTANT, you now have something that if a protester falls on will drain them just like a tire. Take a Styrofoam block about a foot square, you want it two or three inches taller than the spike. Slowly push the spike in, pull it back out, clean out the spike tubes, then push it back in. If the block cracks, throw it away and use a new one, hollow it out just a bit but make sure it fits the spike tightly, you don't want to just cut a box in the bottom of the Styrofoam or they may give when protesters falls on them so a tight fit is a must. Wrap the whole thing in duct tape tightly.

    If a protester falls on one, the Styrofoam will hold up, test it by dropping sand bags or anything of that nature on the first few till you have the proper sized block. It's not much work and once you have the prototype that takes a five foot drop of a 50lb sandbag start duplicating them.

    A 200 lb person can fall on them with minimal harm. Run a multi ton truck with a huge heavy filled water-tank over them and the Styrofoam flattens and breaks to bits, leaving a half inch drain tube in the tire.
  32. Awesome, Frylock! This will work. And requires material and tools available to any handyman. I believe it can be adapted easily by Iranians. Going to twitter it out there on the #greensafe hashtag.

    We are happy with the paint/glue idea. But got so frustrated trying to find other ways to disable these trucks. Thank you.
  33. Nice idea about the foam Frylock. The protesters can buy the caltrops here premade. Boy, I guess you can buy just about anything on the internet nowadays.
    Tire Spikes Caltrop CIA Tire Spikes MX products

    I don't know if the regime will inspect packages coming into the country though.
  34. Nichol Member

    glue+paint also useful inside tank, no fire needed?

    if the glue+paint forces them to open the door/window, you could throw lots of glue+paint in through that door tank, which has the potential of messing up a lot of things, especially if the drivers start smearing it around.

    .. however: even I can think of a few tricks they would likely use as defense against the glue+paint. But at least it might work a few times. Worth the try.

    Would be great if ppl could in some way get access to basiji food/drinks/fuel supplies, and 'degrade' those..
  35. Hi Nichol.

    Basically, if those officers are exiting their cab, then they are going to be crazier than hornets. And with materiels that expensive, they are probably armed with automatic weapons.

    The idea is to keep your distance. This should be done from a group of moving cars. If you get too close you will either get hit with boiling water from the cannons or you will get hit from automatic weapon fire.
  36. Coyote-IRAN Member

    I saw plenty of police cars burning after that car ran that woman over.

    I'm not saying set the cabs on fire with people in them. I'm saying set them on fire so that the vehicle becomes unusable in the future.

  37. I think that just setting fire to the cabs will only take them out of commission until a new interior is ordered. If they can get the drivers out of the cab for a time the best thing to do would be to sabotage the engine and the water cannon motor.
    Both will run on diesel so the first thing would be is to put regular gasoline with an octane higher than 92 in the tank. This will cause preignition and hammer the pistons, rods, crank and all bearings.
    Second, get to the oil fill cap on both engines and pour sand or some other abrasive in then dump water in to wash it down to the bottom.
    Third, pull out the transmission dipstick and dump silicone carbide down the fill tube.
    Now start the engines and watch the fun begin! ;)
    Also how about getting some strong guys on top of some buildings with cinder blocks or bricks and drop them on top of the water cannon barrels? They might be able to bend and kink them stopping the flow of water and maybe over-pressuring the pump system?
    This will keep them out of harms way from the vehicles.
    Don't bother with sugar in the gas tank, it will only clog the fuel filter.
    Also the potato in the exhaust pipe is funny when you do it to a buddy, not a psychotic Basij with automatic weapons.
    There are tons of "environmentalist" websites that tell specifically how to disable bulldozers, backhoes and other construction equipment. These anti riot trucks are no different in how they work so the info is transferable to what we're trying to accomplish here.
  38. Hi American for Freedom.

    I am thinking that the gas cap is locked. How would you get past that?

    Also, like I said earlier, if the officers are exiting the cab they are likely to be:

    1) armed
    2) crazier than hornets

    It is therefore really risky for people to be anywhere near the truck.

    Now, if people in cars want to decoy the officers while another team jams the watercannon mounting and the wheels, that's up to them. The jamming can be done easily with quick-dry expanding spray roofing insulation.

    For that matter, once American for Freedom figures out how to unlock the gas cap, the quick-dry expanding spray roofing insulation can also be donated free of charge to the gas tank.

    That stuff dries in a matter of minutes. I gather it dries hard.

    The engineering team should approach from the rear of the truck so that the officers cant see them. When the officers are out of the way, the engineers can climb onto the roof and into the cab.
  39. templar93418 Member

    "I think that just setting fire to the cabs will only take them out of commission until a new interior is ordered. "
    Or you could just use a combination of say.....Polystyrene and gasoline, or even bloody crayons and gas works. It worked for the resistance fighters in WW2 against German Panzers and it will work on anything they have...(and yes it will slow down a M1A1 Abrams to.)

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