Money talks – Boycott Nokia Siemens!

Discussion in 'Help Iran Online' started by Tynex, Jul 5, 2009.

  1. Tynex Member

  2. The initial information on the Nokia situation was, unfortunately, due to a MSM more interested in getting the story first than in getting it right. Nokia is pretty much blameless:
  3. Yeah yeah yeah, they followed trade rules therefor the sale was ethical. Bullogna.
    They ignored analyst warnings that they were giving a powerful weapon to a terrorist state against the interests of national security. That remains unacceptable market behavior.
    Trade rules were relaxed to allow more companies to make more profit to the detriment of security. Wheres the justice in that? More profit does not equal better capitalism. It means there are greedy men who would trade lives for dollars.

    Keep it real my friends.

  4. Tynex Member

    I disagree with you totally!

    I disagree with you totally!

    The blood of those arested, getting executed or turtured as a result of Iran Gov. having this weapon will be shared to the managment of Nokia and Siemens, as they most probably did this to increase company profit and by that got more Bonus!!

    This is just an example of some boneless european companies!
    We never forget German and dutch companies (among others) who sold kemical wapens to Saddam Hossein

    among German companies:
    Preussag, which is now called TUI, and Hoechst, which has since been split up.
    Karl Kolb,
    Pilot Plant,

    Believe me, when Iranian people has succeed to remove theocracy, we will remember who's foe and who's friend!
  5. With the blessing of the British (and presumably American) government mind you.
  6. If you had read the article, you'd find it has nothing to do with trade rules. However, like most of Congress and a large portion of the world, you do not require knowing anything about the subject prior to forming a strong opinion about it and threatening innocent people.

    The equipment Nokia sold them can be used to record local telephone calls. That is all.

    It cannot perform deep packet inspection. It cannot monitor the internet. It cannot examine text/sms messages. It cannot even record international calls.

    Iran has those capabilities, but did not get them from Nokia. I don't know, maybe the section of the IRG that created jamming devices being used to jam sat signals could have possibly helped them with that. Hell, the technology they are using to monitor SMS is at least 10-15 years old from the last thing I heard people say who were trying to crack it.

    Once again, this has nothing to do with trade rules. however, thank you for demonstrating why people are still screaming about Nokia.

    FFS, at least look at the link in someone's post prior to commenting on it.
  7. Tynex Member

    Please see this Video then!!

    Please see this Video then!!
    Videos Posted by IRAN: Nokia-Siemens: ‘Yes, We sold Cell Phone Spying System to Iran | Facebook

    I just dont know, maybe you work for Nokia or?
    anyway I just found this Nokia deal very, very aginst all what west is trying to profile them selvs, as Human rights, democracy flag carriers! :mad:

    This is BIG time double standard, that west does some times!

    This is not only about Nokia, but much more companies, that we all more or less are stockholders to, as direct goverment(s) ownerships, of through pension funds etc.!
  8. Civics 101: How a Bill Becomes Law.

    Alright, we call Nokia to the US Congress floor. Let them speak for themselves. Nokia is a player in the US interstate commerce system. US Congress regulates interstate commerce. Eventually one of our brilliant legislators will submit a bill. Nokia may have a fiscal interest in this hypothetical bill. Nokia will want to lobby Congress to continue to act in their interests. Nokia then may be asked to speak publicly as to why they have decided to transact in paralegislative activities in Washington at that time. Many questions shall be asked and the world shall watch. The Committees of US Congress will not be censored, and the discourse will be broadcast live and repeated over

    and over

    and over.

    As a result, more attention will be brought globaly upon the dangerous, illegitimate, murderous regime controlling Iran. States and other corporations once sympathetic to Iran will feel less secure with their Iranian interests.

    As far as we can gather, Nokia let an inhumane man get behind the wheel of a powerful command and control infrastructure monitoring device, which is apparently being used in fascist-style crackdown-against-the-masses mode.

    How much would you like to bet that this legislation is being authored as I type?

  9. Nokias reply to protest email

    Wrote to Nokia recently to say I was boycotting their products and received this reply with their arguments:

    "Dear Sir,

    There has been some discussion and even false claims in the media and on-line channels about Nokia Siemens Network's (NSN) provision of network monitoring services to the government of Iran.
    The facts are that we have provided a mobile communications network that, as in every other country too, has the capability for monitoring of domestic voice calls. However, contrary to media reports, data and internet monitoring is not provided at all.

    Almost every network in the world is required by law to have the capability to monitor domestic voice calls. However, the use of voice call monitoring is mostly used only in exceptional cases, typically in fighting crime, and is always subject to specific permission granted by the national authorities. The fact is that without this network monitoring feature, there can be no network and as a result no mobile communication between people in that country or with others outside its borders.

    It is important to look at what being able to communicate has meant to the people of Iran, where already over two-thirds of the people have mobile phones. Thanks to the internet and mobile phone technology, the outside world is able to follow events in Iran in real time. Iranians, regardless of political leaning, can communicate with friends and relatives outside of the country.

    There is also a great deal of evidence that points to mobile telephony being a crucial factor in economic development, social welfare and democracy. Providing people with the means to communicate is of great benefit, for mature and developing economies alike. Regarding the question of which countries we do business in, we strictly follow the guidelines of the United Nations and international laws on trade restrictions.

    You can find more information about the mobile network in Iran in the statement from Nokia Siemens Networks.
    Provision of Lawful Intercept capability in Iran - Nokia Siemens Networks

    We hope that this may addresses some of your concerns.
    Kind regards,
    Media Relations
    Nokia Siemens Networks"
  10. Like they are going to write you and admit it. Just like Big Tobacco said for year, smoking does not cause cancer and they covered up studies. So. I trust that letter.. NOT!
  11. Lobby Nokia for free servers

    You're damned right - I trust them NOT.
    Just posted the this rapid reply to my mail for general info.

    Austinheap has just suggested we lobby Nokia for free servers for the Haystack project :)))
  12. For fuck's fucking sake! Can people around here not analyze or make decisions for themselves? After all the back-and-forth of MSM calling the protests in Iran "over" after the second day, have you not had even the smallest insight into how lazy the vast majority of them are with research and how much money they make off of sensational pieces even if they are lies?

    My guess is, you people STILL aren't reading the article from Forbes. Several industry professionals have gotten so tired trying to explain to you slobbering masses of sheep they even stopped writing articles. If you were in Iran, you would be shooting protesters because your level of questioning things is such that you WOULD believe they were enemies of all that is holy and Ahmadi is perfection incarnate.

    That CNN video is a blite upon journalism. Notice, they never actually say, "Nokia sold Iran this and this and this, and it can do this and this and this." What they DO say is, I quote: "Late last year, it [Nokia] sold the Iranian government SOME of the technology to monitor and control LOCAL cell and land line CALLS." Huh, that sounds like what I said that made you accuse me of working for Nokia. After that, they show you a "monitoring station." Notice that they never say this is the Nokia technology. Why? Because then they could be sued for libel, as it would be a LIE. Instead, they just tie it all together in a way that lets the viewer ASSUME this is what Nokia sold Iran.

    I do not work for anyone involved, nor do I have a vested interest in them, but I do have an interest in the truth.

    The truth is, Iran DOES have some ability to monitor traffic, but the technology they got from Nokia pretty much just allows them the ability to set up a 911 system, and that's about it. Hell, a year ago, if Nokia had refused to sell them that technology, most of the people freaking out over this would have called them monsters, racists, etc.

    The thing is, at some point, someone DID provide them with, albeit outdated, some ability to monitor the internet and data (if you still don't understand how that wasn't Nokia, just go eat some lead paint) and those people are getting off the hook because everyone is too fucking joy-happy jumping on the "shame on Nokia" wagon, promising to boycott them and most likely just meaning they won't buy Nokia phones while still directly or indirectly shelling tons of money over to the company, because if you are lazy enough in your research and fact-finding to still assume Nokia gave Iran all this incredible technology Iran doesn't even have most of, then I SERIOUSLY fucking doubt you will take the time to figure out just how many Nokia and Nokia-affiliated products you make use of on a daily basis.

    With that, I wash my hands of this thread and suggest anyone who wants to post further conspiracy shit to just go watch some cartoons or take a nap. I plan to do both :-P
  13. That, right there, is an example of CNNfail.
  14. Looking forward to July 2009 Nokia sales figures
  15. Like the idea of boycott

    I like the idea of a boycott. It's a good way we can all show support to the Iranian people, but I'm not convinced Nokia Siemens is a justifiable target. Does anyone have any other suggestions of companies / products we can boycott??

    Got to say I like what I'm hearing about the haystack project, well done guys!
    Austin Heap Iran
  16. Lets be honest: boycotts are basically like sanctions at an individual level. And like the people years ago who boycotted BritishKnights because they were paying kids $10-a-week to make shoes, thus forcing BK to shut down those "sweat shops," resulting in the kids going to work in mines for $5-a-week ("Hey kids, you can thank the short-sighted, self-righteous Americans and their campaign to feel good about themselves for the black lung! :-D), they hardly ever harm the targets but do have the potential to destroy the livelihoods of hundreds or thousands of innocent people.


    I think, more productive than a boycott, would be picking one of the major networks/media outlets and having everyone nag the hell out of them for coverage of and info about Iran, as well as a "carrot:" giving overwhelming positive feedback and traffic to the coverage they do. In addition, the "naggers" should provide suggestions for things to report on, such as elements from Green Briefs or links to recent (note, RECENT) and reliable (as in don't send them "zomg teh basji throw students of roofs!!!!!" linking to the mid-90s footage from Iraq) videos and photos, as a story without graphics for the major media, unless it involves the second coming, is not a story. Frankly, without at least a pie chart, even the second coming wouldn't make the front page. Like it or hate it, it's just the way media works, and it works that way because it is what the majority of people respond to. Bemoaning what exists is much less productive than determining how to adapt to it and make it work for you.

    By this means, we could create more coverage, and thereby more awareness, of the situation in Iran. I would strongly advocate initially focusing on a single media outlet, and only broadening actions once we are certain of numbers/effect.
  17. Tynex Member

    1) Which law your law or their law?
    2) whos deciding whats exeptional case?
    What is Crime for them, its NOT Crime in any democratic system even your own country, the fact is that, they are naming this piece full demonstrations as organized crime, trigged from the West! that includes your own country as well (FINLAND! (Meaning Nokia's country))

    3) that thruley shows that, this letter was not written by an engineer!!

    This is another prove of the double standard that some countries, and Companies are practising.

    The difference of a democratic and none democratic system, is in their laws, and definition of crime!
  18. Tynex Member

    Why talking like This!

    We all are fighting/Consurning for freedom of speech, anywhere in the world!
    Okay if you dont like the Boycott idea, then dont!

    I have red the Aricle from Forbes, But it has not changed my mind!
    And I'm sure if Nokia Siemens didn't sold it to Iran, then Ericsson would do!! therefore Governments who say they encurrage democracy would/should set restrictions, unfurtunatly, European's are more thinking about mony then democracy!
    please observ. I didn't ment all europeans! but most Europen countries, and now when they want to set pressure to Iran, its not for freedom of speech, but nuclear issue!! this is sad, but it is so!

    And sorry for asking if you where working for Nokia! :)

  19. NokiaSiemens + IranianRegime = TROVICOR

    To see how NoikaSiemens have put their heart in helping the Iranian Regime to monitor communication networks:

    Please study this post, and the following discussion. I think this will interest tech-minded, as well as the more ”debate orientated”.

    Action to Disrupt the Monitoring System Used by the Iranian Regime @shariatmadari

    (I recommend paying attention to comments by ferdosi - july 25 and comment by
    ( Kevin Scott (KevinScottDC) on Twitter ) - july 28).

    ...and yes, some other company would have done it in stead, probably. BUT we still have to make them sweat AND MAYBE even pull out of maintenance, which could reduce efficiency, and SAVE LIVES (along with fewer TORTURE wictims).
  20. _gator Member


    I love this idea! Here are some addresses:

    Nokia Siemens Networks
    Head office: Karaportti 3
    02610 Espoo, Finland
    PO Box 1
    FI-02022 Nokia Siemens Networks
    +358 71 400 4000 (Finland)
    +49 89 5159 01 (Germany)
    Home - Nokia Siemens Networks

    Find all worldwide NSN addresses and phones here.

    CEO: Simon Beresford-Wylie email: _______________
    Chairman: Olli-Pekka Kallasvuo email:
  21. Ray Murphy Member

    I haven't been using a mobile phone for several months since the battery stopped working. So far, I haven't bothered getting a new one, but the other day I contemplated walking into a shop to buy one, then suddenly thought "How embarrassing it would be - to be seen with a new Nokia phone after all the bad publicity the company has received lately".

    I really don't know how guilty they are of colluding with a vicious regime, but I'm not prepared to take the risk of being associated with them until further notice.
  22. JohnDoe Moderator

    On Saturday I had to replace my mobile, I made a point of telling the shop assistant why I would not buy a Nokia. They hadn't a clue about it, but believe me they knew by the time I had finished, and I encouraged the two I was dealing with to google it and find out more!

    So I used it as an excuse to educate people about the situation, and send a message to Nokia at the same time. (I suggested that they tell their line managers why some people are refusing to buy Nokia) It might not be much, but it's always something!

    We are now Nokia free in our house:)

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