Monkey Boo

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by The Internet, Jul 7, 2017.

  1. The Internet Member

    Imma take a break from worrying about serious stuff and share some strangely fascinating YouTubes about a charismatic capuchin monkey named, "Boo." It's the face that gets me. So much "Where the Wild Things Are."

    I have mixed feelings about primates as pets. A while back I saw a documentary about women who raise monkeys to serve as lifelong baby-like companions and it kinda creeped me out. But so far I'm okay with Boo and his owner. The guy is with his monkey nearly full-time. They play and Boo seems healthy and curious and reasonably content.

    I have questions but not huge ones. Like, where does the pee pee go? Capuchin monkeys are arboreal and pee at will. Can't see that working in an apartment.
  2. The Internet Member

    Here's Boo playing with markers and paints. Holding an object and hitting it against a surface repeatedly is a strategy I've seen in several of Boo's videos. Sniffing, tasting, touching, smearing also. These are some of the tools in Boo's exploration tool kit. Give him an iPhone and all these tools will come out, no doubt. So best not to let Boo play with your iPhone.

    Anyway, paints + exploration strategies = art.

    That face.

    Boo seems more interested in understanding the objects in his hands than the marks being made on the paper. I wish his attention would stay on the marks being made. I think when I'm using a pen or a brush I forget them. Boo does not.
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  3. Ann O'Nymous Member

    • Like Like x 2
  4. The Internet Member

    Here's a trailer for a documentary about people adopting and raising monkeys like children. It kinda creeps me out.

    I'm still struggling to explain what it is that I don't like. I'm not a PETA freak. I don't say that the monkeys would be happier in their natural environment. Because I don't know that.

    Humans develop long-term relationships with dogs, cats, birds, lizards, horses, goats, and many other species. They shape the emotional and intellectual development of their pets. They alter them surgically to make them more suited to a human environment. All this is acceptable.

    So why am I bothered by people who adopt a baby monkey? Actually I'm only bothered sometimes. Boo's owner hasn't yet given me the creeps. But people in the video above... ehhhh.

    At the same time... damn, those monkey faces are adorable. I get why people want to have a monkey buddy. Seems awesome.

    Cute and creepy. I can't not look into this.
  5. Most humans - ISTM - aren't capable of organising themselves and their relationships with others of their own species in a way that is mutually beneficial, so I can't feel too good about the 'adopt a monkey' business.

    The last sentence in the voice-over sums up the danger for me - of having a child (or child-substitute) as a child forever.

    I imagine it is as crucial for other primates as it is for us that they progress beyond the immature stage of development, yet it is all too common for parents (or substitute parents) to fail to make the adjustments needed to allow this to occur, thus locking the child (substitute) into eternal infancy. That's not OK.

    All too often, as with puppy farms, the most irresponsible people seem to get involved in the commercial exploitation of animals. There is something repellent about the whole idea of profiting from the sale of living creatures, even when it benefits so many of our own species.

    I won't go on about this. Boo's keeper does not seem too bad in the parenting role. But I'm a tad sceptical if he knows enough about the normal development needs of Boo to ensure that these are met, if he is capable of doing so, and whether he would continue to find it beneficial for him. Otherwise, what is the point?
  6. The Internet Member

    Boo visits with a friend he hasn't seen in 6 months. He gets really happy. It's cute.
  7. PoopslingingMonkey.jpg
  8. Incredulicide Member

  9. Ann O'Nymous Member

    Seems to be mostly a business.

  10. Only a sick fuck would post this .
  11. This forum attracts sick fucks apparently .
  12. Is this the first time you've noticed that?

  13. The Internet Member

    It's not legal to own exotic species in most places in the US. But having an exotic animal as part of a business, like a zoo, a wildlife sanctuary, an entertainment enterprise, etc., may be permitted. Therefore many monkey people invent a business to take advantage of this legal loophole.

    Some monkey owners get a Federal USDA license which allows the animal to be transported across state lines. This requires an on-site visit and there are rules about enclosures, food, cleanliness, veterinary care, etc. Don't quote me though. I only listened to enough YouTube talk about the legal side of owning exotic species to realize things are complicated.

    Two types of people adopt monkeys: lurkmoars and the strangely obsessed. The lurkmoars keep a monkey for a few years then hand the animal over to a rescue sanctuary in defeat. I hear Justin Bieber was a monkey lurkmoar but I dunno. Lurkmoars are the reason we have laws against people owning wild animals.

    The strangely obsessed recognize that the ownership and control goes both ways. They give up going to work, visiting friends and family, traveling most places, sleeping and waking whenever they want, and having nice things. These people are like pioneers venturing into territory on the borderlands of human understanding and experience. They are interesting to watch from a distance. How many become an inspiring success? Probably not many.
  14. The Internet Member

    Gibbons are great apes like us. This one has learned to walk but is still a little unsteady.
  15. Disambiguation Global Moderator

  16. Ann O'Nymous Member

    Your fascination is disturbing.
  17. It's also encouraging to see someone who is open minded and curious enough about life and willing to explore such things.
    I find T I's posts interesting and highly informative too I'm also very appreciative of the care he takes to include as many details as possible when posting.

    Another thing about T I is that in all the time I've been here he's treated everyone with respect and is courteous to all.

    With more posters little!e The Internet this forum would flourish.

    I can't be bothered to sign in .:)
  18. Sockofleas Member

    I'll own that comment now I've signed in.
  19. The Internet Member

    You didn't find that baby gibbon chirp adorable? Maybe you will like this chirping tortoise better.
  20. Ann O'Nymous Member

    So far, I haven't heard OP mentioning the animals rights. Very telling, IMHO.
  21. The Internet Member

    Animal rights arguments don't come easily to me. I have relied largely on animal welfare arguments in the past. The rights people tend to argue for a radical separation between humans and animals and I am not usually in favor of that. But if you have a good rights argument I would like to hear it.

    Our primate brothers are rapidly going extinct due to habitat loss and climate change. I think there are about 700 mountain gorillas on the entire planet. Even if we stop mining whatever that precious metal is we put in our cell phones and give back the Congo jungle to the gorillas, 700 individuals is probably not enough genetic diversity to insure the species will survive the inevitable pandemics and environmental changes of the future. Under these circumstances I favor zoos and other settings where gorillas can thrive even if those settings are not ideal.

    Many zoos maintain habitats that appear to meet the needs of small primate groups. The zoos allow biologists the opportunity to better understand these creatures. The zoos help rescue and rehabilitate injured or abandoned primates in the wild and I am all for that. The little gibbon baby above reportedly is living in an apartment at a wildlife center and probably will be integrated with other gibbons when he's old enough.

    Primates and humans can and do form friendships that endure and I have no problem with that. Humans and certain primate species have lived in the same areas for centuries so I see no reason to forbid humans from sharing a home with a primate. But people in Costa Rica or India living near wild monkeys likely know what to expect when they decide to share their lives with a monkey. People in Kansas, probably not so much.

    AnonymousVanAllen made a good point about the "forever baby" notion being contrary to the developmental process generally. That's probably what bothers me with some of the monkey adoption examples on the YouTubes.

    A lot of orangutan orphan babies are being raised by humans right now. Palm oil plantations have been replacing the jungle in Kalimantan. Workers clearing the jungle with machetes are suddenly attacked by orangutan mothers. The mothers don't survive. The orphans, sometimes injured, are taken home and then later given to sanctuaries. I've seen YouTubes of people pushing a wheelbarrow filled with orangutan babies. What is the answer? I don't know.
  22. The Internet Member

    Here is a PR piece meant to raise awareness about orangutan orphans. These images break my heart. Orangutans are just like us. Except they don't give a fuck about the almighty dollar. The world won't be the same once they are gone.
  23. Ann O'Nymous Member

    I agree with some things you say here. Without sanctuaries, many ape species will disappear in the near future, like other ones.

    My concern is about people like the guy in OP video who does not seem to have a clue about many issues.
  24. Disambiguation Global Moderator

    "How to Clone a Mammoth: The Science of De-Extinction is a 2015 non-fiction book by biologist Beth Shapiro and published by Princeton University Press"
    The science of de-extinction will save maybe half of the DNA of the extinct species. Using ancient DNA fragments to form an embryo with a modern day equivalent species i.e. Elephant for Mammoth we can get a hybrid. They've started doing this for some species, so far not great results, but it's early days.

    NatGeo link to TED talk
  25. Disambiguation Global Moderator

    The White Rhino DNA is pure so it's a matter of continuing the species through propagation, not cloning. It's really expensive but it's starting.
    This is for the endangered Black Rhino

    "With the money raised from the crowdfunding the team are recording the genome of a 6 year old black rhino that is currently from South Africa called Ntomi. This is the first black rhino that had its genome sequenced."

    Saving the Northern White Rhino is tried using Southern White Rhinos as surrogate uteri and DNA from dead males and eggs from the last two females.
    They will never roam free but they will still live as zoo specimens.
  26. Ann O'Nymous Member

    Too little, too late, IMHO.
  27. The Internet Member

  28. Ann O'Nymous Member

    Another person doing stupid things with animals. You will find plenty on the net, but do not feel obliged to post them here.
  29. The Internet Member

    There's a charity in Boston called, "Helping Hands" that places capuchin monkeys with wheelchair bound people. I'm guessing there must be a non-disabled person in the home to make sure the monkey's needs are met.
  30. The Internet Member

    You know how sometimes it seems like an animal is laughing but you can't be sure? Well in this vid there's an example of that around 1:20 in. You hear Boo's owner, Pete, make hehehe noises like he's starting to tickle Boo. Then Boo laughs. It's cute.

    There are a hundred reasons why you don't want to own a capuchin monkey. For one, they have no bowel or bladder control. Boo doesn't tolerate wearing a diaper which means pee and poo anytime anywhere he happens to be. I just want to balance the cuteness with a little reality so people know monkeys make terrible pets.
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  31. The Internet Member

  32. Planetary Member

    One important thing to consider is the needs of the monkey.

    They're extremely social creatures. They live in troops with complex social hierarchies and specialized roles -- alphas protect the troop, females help new mothers raise their babies (alloparenting), matriarchs mediate disputes, lower-ranking males protect the periphery, and so on. They spend their days grooming each other and foraging.

    Every prominent primate expert, from Jane Goodall to Frans de Waal, has said that there is no way a human, living in a human household, can replicate the experience of a monkey growing up with its mother, living in a troop, playing with other babies, learning to groom and so on.

    Ths problem with keeping monkeys as pets is that monkeys need those social interactions. They're necessary for normal psychological and emotional development. They're necessary for the happiness and well being of the monkey.

    I get the appeal. YouTube has plenty of videos of adorable baby monkeys having their first baths or drinking from bottles. Capuchin and macaque babies are incredibly cute. They're docile, they seem loving, their antics are musing.

    But let's not kid ourselves, we know where those babies came from, and we know their mothers didn't give them up willingly.

    @The Internet

    That "When Shaki Done Wrong" video was made by an Indonesian man who calls himself Jamil Kucing (kucing means cat). He has two macaque monkeys, and he sleeps in bed with them. I think his videos speak for themselves. Those monkeys are not happy.


    That photo shows a baby monkey who was taken away from his mom. It's not sexual. The baby has an instinctual desire to nurse, just like a human baby. But if he's been taken from his mom, and he's locked in a cage or chained up by his neck in some backyard in Indonesia, he has no source of comfort. Some babies start sucking their thumbs or their fingers, and some autofellate...either way the baby is looking for something to serve as a "teat." It's another example of why it's cruel to take a baby monkey from its mother.
  33. Behold the resident monkey expert!
  34. The Internet Member

    I don't disagree with you, Planetary. Monkeys in the wild living in troops have richer lives than monkeys in captivity. And monkeys are far more work than a pet. They're like curious, hyperactive, socially demanding children that can't be left alone for more than a few hours. And this burden goes on for 40 years. People who adopt a monkey thinking it will be like a puppy only more fun are going to be horribly disappointed. So we don't want to encourage a monkey pet industry.

    But on the flip side, humans and monkeys have been living together since ancient times --in small numbers. And sadly the world is rapidly losing most of its non-human primates. So it's not a bad idea for some humans to learn how to nurture and care for orphaned primates in various ways.

    I have a hunch that the Moss family might not have adopted Monkey Boo had they known the consequences of this decision. The earliest videos are on the son Tyler's channel. He looks to be the intended primary caretaker. He works in software/media from a home office but then a few years later he started to travel and Dad became Boo's daily companion. I wonder if the marriage is still intact but I'm not following these vids closely. I just notice an attractive woman with a monkey named Xander having play dates with Boo in a few recent videos.

    I appreciate seeing humans and animals interact and find a lot of stuff in these vids fascinating. I do worry that the cuteness might over-sell monkeys as pets. But greater exposure does drive home the fact that a human living with a monkey basically has no life of his own.

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