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"Move for Senate Scientology inquiry fails" (Hayden Falconer email)

Discussion in 'Senator Xenophon And Scientology' started by RevModemac, Dec 6, 2009.

  1. tamphex Member

    Re: Aussie government rejects Xenophon's request to investigate Scientology

    Nothing to panic about, that news piece is just a PR fart by our culty friends.
  2. Belladonna Member

    Re: Aussie government rejects Xenophon's request to investigate Scientology

    Very disappointing that ABC News followed in kind.
    Government rules out Scientology inquiry - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

    Government rules out Scientology inquiry
    As has been stated earlier in this thread, I am not sure why the position of one senator's office is being presented as the official position of the entire government. Damn shame; the Australian media has been so good up to this point.
  3. tamphex Member

    Re: Aussie government rejects Xenophon's request to investigate Scientology

    Mods or OP; can we get a rewording on this thread subject title please? The Australian Government has not rejected anything.
  4. Re: Aussie government rejects Xenophon's request to investigate Scientology

    Crafty devils... I always am careful when i read any anti psych report in newspapers know these lying scum have had something to do with it.
  5. Herro Member

    Re: Aussie government rejects Xenophon's request to investigate Scientology

    Lol, "finish the fight" they said.
  6. Re: Aussie government rejects Xenophon's request to investigate Scientology

    fify
  7. _You_ Member

  8. Timmibal Member

    Re: Aussie government rejects Xenophon's request to investigate Scientology

    /r/ title change.

    Obvious PR piece is obvious. Hopefully this aide is going to get a good kick in the arse for being too expansive with his copypasta.

    In other words. STAY ON BLOODY TARGET LADS!
  9. _You_ Member

    Re: Aussie government rejects Xenophon's request to investigate Scientology

    From Carmel on ESMB:

  10. Belladonna Member

    Re: Aussie government rejects Xenophon's request to investigate Scientology

    Caution: I don't think accusing these news outlets of shoddy journalism will win any points in the discourse. Just sayin'



    This issue is a sticky one. It is a potential political time-bomb that could have unanticipated repercussions. Even experts are in disagreement of what is possible.

    To wit:
    (from November)
    The Australian
    Political pursuit of religion


    Author Noel Pearson is director of the Cape York Institute for Policy and Leadership.
    snip
    Political pursuit of religion | The Australian


    The Age
    Struggle between a church and the state

    Scientology
    I'm saying this as a reminder that this will be a difficult struggle and we should be prepared for some downs along with our ups.
  11. Re: Aussie government rejects Xenophon's request to investigate Scientology

    i liek difficylt struggles
  12. Barry41 Member

    Re: Aussie government rejects Xenophon's request to investigate Scientology

    Most politicians are too scared of taking on this responsibility. They don't want to appear to be interfering in anything religious, even if it is a dangerous cult. For them it is much more comfortable to pass the buck to someone else.

    We need to present a convincing case to the Tax Commissioner, and keep pushing for the Senate Inquiry, things may change before February rolls around.
  13. Re: Aussie government rejects Xenophon's request to investigate Scientology

    I, for one, DEMAND moar RAEG and less reading comprehension ITT!


    Calm down people! This is just some dood (a senator's staffer) saying "not gonna happen." Nothing has been decided yet. Moar poons are needed, that's all.
  14. _You_ Member

    Re: Aussie government rejects Xenophon's request to investigate Scientology

    He's a staffer from governement's leadership, not just some dude.
  15. Re: Aussie government rejects Xenophon's request to investigate Scientology

    Um... Yeah, he's a STAFFER for someone else, I.E. someone who works for someone who's opinion actually matters, I.E. some dude.

    Your point?
  16. _You_ Member

    Re: Aussie government rejects Xenophon's request to investigate Scientology

    Well the plan if I understand the plan correctly, we are going to try to: 1)rearrange the structure of the senate with the snap election, 2)PA Senator Abbott, 3)get massive press about Scientology being reviewed by the senate, and 4) have the citizens of Australia demand the senate start an investigation that they claim would be the first of its kind. And if we can pull this off there might be a pizza party* afterwards.







    * Pizza party is tinfoil speculation.
  17. _You_ Member

    Re: Aussie government rejects Xenophon's request to investigate Scientology

    In 1983, Justices Wilson and Deane said:

    That is basically an invitation to the government to tweak the laws so that they are NOT tax-exempt, due to their behaviour. Pointed this out to the politicians. But also, I think Xenophon should reword his motion, so that rather than being about Scientology explicitly, it asks the Senate to investigate whether the laws are adequate to prevent an anti-social or criminal organisation avoiding taxation by masking itself as a religion.

    The issue for the politicians seems to be investigating, as a legislature, one specific 'religion'.

    Rewording to make it not about Scientology, but about tax law and anti-social behaviour (and/or systematic criminality), might well bring both the Liberals and Labor on board. Of course, any Senate investigation into something like that would have to receive and consider copious evidence about Scientology's behaviour, and might also expose a couple of other cults in the process.
  18. AnonLover Member

    Re: Aussie government rejects Xenophon's request to investigate Scientology

    this doesnt look like its helping any, bob adams beating the religion drum in melbourne

    New Thought News Service: Scientology 101
  19. _You_ Member

    Re: Aussie government rejects Xenophon's request to investigate Scientology

    I'm wondering if Carmel or anyone else close-ish to [STRIKE]Lord Xenu[/STRIKE] the Senator follows relevant threads on WWP?
  20. Re: Aussie government rejects Xenophon's request to investigate Scientology

    It is not uncommon for ranking officials to use staffers to deliver comments on issues they consider to be relatively unimportant. A staffer would not make an official comment like this unless he or she was authorized to do so.

    One would hope that they do not rely upon these forums for information.
  21. _You_ Member

    Re: Aussie government rejects Xenophon's request to investigate Scientology

    Yeah, he's just forwarding a message he received from his boss. How does this make anything less valid exactly?
  22. OTBT Member

    Re: Aussie government rejects Xenophon's request to investigate Scientology

    Probably off topic, but might possibly be helpful info... AFAIK, the Australian Refugee Review Tribunal still isn't accepting "Scientology Refugees" from Russia

    AustLII Results - scientology

    N02/44364 [2003] RRTA 707

  23. thefatman Member

    Re: Aussie government rejects Xenophon's request to investigate Scientology

    OTBT our government is barely taking any refugees of any kind, even the legitimate ones. For some reason people here seem to think they are illegal.

    Also, they won a court case over there, so how are they get persecuted there? Surely it's worse for them here?

    ITT: All cells need to get working on petitions. Seriously, politicians get epic hard ons from petitions.
  24. Belladonna Member

    Re: Aussie government rejects Xenophon's request to investigate Scientology

    Still, nice to see it in writing.
    Also, here is ODIT's presentation of the recent news:
    AU: Senator Xenophon Unfazed By Setback
    ODIT/UNews: AU: Senator Xenophon Unfazed By Setback
  25. _You_ Member

    Re: Aussie government rejects Xenophon's request to investigate Scientology

    My point was more about whether 'good ideas' (mostly my own of course :) find their way to 'Team OZ' - I hope that 'they' are at least reading these threads as well as ESMB threads.
  26. _You_ Member

    Re: Aussie government rejects Xenophon's request to investigate Scientology

    /tinfoil

    How tight are the Aussie rules on 'guest workers' or other mechanisms the cult might use to send Eastern Europeans to live/work in the Australian orgs. We know that Saint Hill had/has a number of people from the region - is there any chance that the cult was trying this on as a way to get recruits into Australia to work?

    (Imagine if Australia DID decide to accept cult 'refugees' from Russia - I'm fairly confident the cult would then have started using this to send young folk over from across East Europe)
  27. Re: Aussie government rejects Xenophon's request to investigate Scientology

    Pardon me for the faggotry as I didn't read the last five pages...

    Is there a plan for email-ing the Senators? Or in any case, where can we point our harpoon cannons now?
  28. Belladonna Member

  29. Ann O'Nymous Member

    Re: Aussie government rejects Xenophon's request to investigate Scientology

    I am quite surprised you don't know how reporting works on this forum.
    Agreed. Another angle would be to look again at the documents used in the past to stop scientology in Australia and check whether the rationale still apply. It would be interesting to know what changed between then and now.
  30. belfastlad Member

    Re: Aussie government rejects Xenophon's request to investigate Scientology

    .
  31. themadhair Member

    Re: Aussie government rejects Xenophon's request to investigate Scientology

    Too much nerd rage and not enough reading comprehension ITT. The article in the OP doesn’t contain a shred of new information, and it is disappointing that it seems folks need it spelled out for them why the headline is misleading.

    It is also disappointing that so many folks are determined to ask for harpoon targets while simultaneously being clueless as to the issues involved.

    Srsly folks. Calm the fuck down and read the relevant materials until you get clued in. Then go and do your research to craft on-topic relevant harpoons. Nerd rage will be ineffectual here. What is needed is thoughtful well-evidenced harpoons that directly address the understandable concerns that some Australian politicians currently have.

    These politicians simply do not have the same level of information about Scientology that you do. This is the education that we have to accomplish for this inquiry to happen, and it needs folks to spend time, effort and consideration on gathering the relevant materials and distilling it into a format that the politicians can understand. We also need to make sure that what we write is backed with the relevant references and supporting dox.

    The cult can only hope to muddy the water here, and if our harpoons reduce the situation to two warring factions in a ‘he said they said’ situation they succeed. We have to bring evidence and dox – but most importantly we have to bring rationality and clarity.

    If you think the cult’s claims are bullshit is it really worth a damn if you cannot explain why in a clear easy-to-read format the politicians can understand? This is what we have to do. And it will take clear heads and well-informed perspective to accomplish, rather than the nerd rage that seems a little bit too common ITT at the moment.

    This is the single biggest golden opportunity we have had since January 2008 to do massive damage to the cult. Don’t piss it away through nerd rage.
  32. _You_ Member

    Re: "Move for Senate Scientology inquiry fails"

    Makes perfect sense to me, I can see why this approach would be more effective.

    We might want to consider that initiating an investigation which will doubtless affect the scilons but doesn't explicitly mention them might be more appropriate in certain circumstances.

    Also, consider that the scilons campaign for things that benefit them that also don't mention them, like the changes to UK tax breaks for philosophical beliefs.

    Sometimes subtle moves work best which is why..... ;-)
  33. Optimisticate Member

    Re: Aussie government rejects Xenophon's request to investigate Scientology

    The Australian media is no better than any other country's media when it comes to taking minimal information and making it OMFG HEADLINES! And, they're no better than anyone else at correcting information when shown to be wrong.

    OTOH, a commenter in the above link is making a dangerous analogy comparing Xenophon to McCarthy. This is nothing like McCarthyism, we're not seeing scientologists everywhere (I will not godwin da thread), and no one is bringing them in one by one to demand information on their sciento(il)logical knowledge and activities. However, all it takes is one more idiot to pick up that battle cry and make it an issue. McCarthy did irreparable damage when he was on the rampage. Xenophon is trying to fix things. Comparisons like this worry me a bit.
  34. _You_ Member

    Re: "Move for Senate Scientology inquiry fails" (Hayden Falconer email)

    McCarthy over-did it, but he turned out to be right about the level of communist infiltration. So don't follow his example, but don't ignore the problem either.
  35. _You_ Member

    Re: Aussie government rejects Xenophon's request to investigate Scientology

    1Underling from 1SingleSenatorsOffice != AustralianGovernment
  36. Sponge Member

    Re: "Move for Senate Scientology inquiry fails" (Hayden Falconer email)

    2v3izw4.jpg

    The question has to be asked at some point.... Just what does it take before a government inquiry is wholly appropriate?

    I am sick of hearing what is not officially possible at Government level. It is partly because of the "R" word that many of the usual remedies remain unsatisfactory.
    There are so many other ways in which Government enacts policy to interfere with our lives "for our own good" so why not THIS?

    Law enforcement authorities, unless a crime practically happens right in front of their faces, are reluctant to even investigate nevermind prosecute a part of anything that has declared itself a "church" of a "religion". Civic departments simply do not have any useful provisions to keep bad churches in check and rarely do they look under the surface before civil servants grant various form-based approvals. In otherwords, if anyone actually bothers to ask questions, exsisting authorities all look to higher government on how to act. There are no answers to be given because there hasn't been any tests and the message sent down from the government appears to be to cough and shuffle uncomfortably before suggesting all the previous remedies that victims and critics have already sought without sucess.

    Just how bad, in precise terms, does it have to be before it becomes wrong enough before the right questions are asked and answers given? How any times is the cult of scientology allowed to get away with what they do, purposefully hiding under the default shield of religion, skirting the edge of the law or outright breaking it without attracting censure or punishment?

    What do you think scientology takes from this lack of concern about their activities? They just think they are doing it right. They think that government fully support their scam, their abuses, the ruining of people's lives. They carry on as normal. So, Governments, do please tell us what level of institutionalised abuse does it have to get to before you intervene?

    We should not have to wait until passive freedom of speech alone slowly spreads the truth which gradually pummels scientology into the ground, exhausting its last cash reserves, because that may take another generation of abused people before that begins to happen.

    Do you think that if you decided tomorrow to create a new scientology-like pseudo-religious movement that any government with half a brain cell would whole heartedly approve of these things and let you get on with it?......
    * High street bait'n'switch hard sell with "personality tests" in the streets to dupe people into think there is something wrong with them?
    * to coerce members of your "high order" to have abortions, to imprison and punish people (mentally and physically) for going off "religious" policy (policies which are often undefined or open to massive interpretation by the abuser)?
    * to declare many forms of legimitate medicine, especially phsychiatry, as evil and at the same time offering their own form of high priced non-medically approved "religious counselling", sweat saunas with dangerous doses of vitamins and salts, and running round a pole all day?
    * to force disconnection from friends and family members who do not approve of the adherent's membership?
    * To persuade public members that have been drained financially to join staff and work for next to nothing in order to serve the "church" and be the only way to continue the road to "salvation"?
    * to use donations to litigate against critics with the intention, as a matter of policy, not to win but to financially beat them into submission? "Sued, tricked and lied to" as the religious policy goes.
    * to hire private investigators and outright lie to law enforcement in order to silence and abuse critics?
    * to be of no benefit to the public good and aside from local PR stunts to make itself look benign there is no inherant charitable function of the "church" (certainly nothing that reflects its hundreds of millions of dollars in riches).
    * to declare anyone that leaves the official "church" and then speaks out as a "suppressive person" and for there be no other approved method of gaining "salvation" except that licenced by the mother "church".
    * to enrich the "ecclesiastical" leader of the "church" and for him to be beyond reproach by any board or by church members.
    * TO PLACE THEIR MEMBERS INTO OR CLOSE ENOUGH TO POSITIONS OF POWER WITH THE INTENTION, AS A MATTER OF POLICY, TO PREVENT DUE PROCESS AND GARNER UNWARRANTED FAVOUR?

    Lets write to government leaders, asking of they'd mind any of the above points in a proposed tax exempt "new religious movement" and see what their answers would be. Would they approve?
    Nobody in their right mind would say that any of the above things are good. So, why is all that and worse being allowed to happen within the cult of scientology? Why do goverments effectively sanction the very things that they likely would not approve of if asked up front?

    I imagine that current governments kinda hope that the next governement will step up and deal with it. Well, guys, this has been going on for over 50 years and there's no time like the present. This really should be a no-brainer. The whole of religion is not going to condemn a government for standing up to scientology and if anything will probably pat you on the back, so there should be no political discomfort in tackling this.



    Furthermore, do you really want your children and your children's children to be standing outside orgs in guy fawkes masks acting like dicks once a month for evermore? I rather think not. < j/k
    More seriously though, do you really want your children and your children's children to run the risk of being sucked into the cult of scientology? I rather think not.

    also, helmets.
  37. Re: "Move for Senate Scientology inquiry fails" (Hayden Falconer email)

    We need to bring up some old dirt. The anderson report but more specific the allowance of scientology as a religion in Victoria. I remember reading somewhere that it was allowed under something like this "if people want to believe in a con then it's their decision" Does anyone have access to that file? CO$ is using the "we have already had an enquiry and the high commission, thoroughly looked into scientology blah blah blah" and it would be great to quote back this from the report. The reason why i am saying that is we and lord xenuphone are pushing for the "it's not just gullible people believing, belief itself is being manipulated in the individual." line. and this is a natural step in that argument.
  38. 3rdMan Member

    Re: "Move for Senate Scientology inquiry fails" (Hayden Falconer email)

    Wait. I was under the impression this is PR BS and not true. Cause I'm seeing posts that act like its true, and then timid sparrow's which say otherwise. Can we get confirmation before the flood of disappointment is unleashed?
  39. Re: "Move for Senate Scientology inquiry fails" (Hayden Falconer email)

    This thread is strange. Everyone here is fretting over what this means and the thread about the Australian police stating their intentions to investigate scientology remains buried.
  40. RightOn Member

    Re: "Move for Senate Scientology inquiry fails" (Hayden Falconer email)

    ABC is not edumukating rite

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