Narconon @ Wikipedia (a heads-up)

Discussion in 'News and Current Events' started by Anonymous, Dec 23, 2011.

  1. another123 Member

  2. Anonymous Member

  3. Anonymous Member

    I can see the rationale for removing the whole thing, it was bordering on original research. The section was too long anyway. The major story presnted by the article is still that Narconon=do not want.

    Winn article is winn.
  4. DeathHamster Member

    And coffeepusher is not a pro-Scientology editor.

    It's better to be short, to the point and hard referenced.
    • Like Like x 2
  5. Anonymous Member


    The new version says that high doses of niacin are dangerous, but misses the important point that Hubbard's theory about the effect of niacin on the body was utterly mistaken.
  6. DeathHamster Member

    What you need is a ref where some qualified person states that.
  7. Anonymous Member

    Why not raise the concern on the talk-page?
  8. DeathHamster Member

    I can't because I'm broadly banned from all Scientology articles. (It was part of the deal the ARBCOM made when they banned Scientology.)
  9. Anonymous Member

    I was thinking of the poster above you. I'm afraid I can't do so either, due to other Wikipedia-related issues.
  10. Random guy Member

    I have browsed through the article, and I would say it have the main points down:

    • Like Like x 1
  11. Anonymous Member

    Very strange then that a user named JavaPowered is removing sourced content without comment, and reverts of that edit are then being reverted by Coffeepusher. A handy way to avoid the 3-revert-rule.
  12. DeathHamster Member

    Tony's blog is still a problem. Like it or not, it's no longer the editorial page of the Village Voice. It might be possible to take it to but you'd better have all your ducks in a row, with references of respectable news stories citing The Underground Bunker as a source. Even then, I wouldn't give that good chances of success.

    Daily Kos? LOL!

    Sad, but it may very well be that Per Wickstrom's operations just aren't notable yet. After he kills some more people, I'm sure it'll make the news. :(
    • Like Like x 1
  13. Anonymous Member

  14. DeathHamster Member

    No. Why?
  15. Anonymous Member

    Pretty much. Until someone publishes the many names of Wickstrom's scam in a paper or a book, there's not much we can do.
  16. Anonymous Member

    How about now?
  17. Anonymous Member

    The edits so far haven't been disruptive so far. Until such time, there's little we can do.
  18. DeathHamster Member

    Bleh! The cites have way too much quoting going on.

    <ref>{{Cite report
    | author =
    | authorlink =
    | coauthors = Messrs. Alain Gest, president, Jean-Pierre Brard, Mrs. Suzanne Sauvaigo, vice-presidents, Messrs. Eric DoligŽ, Rudy Rooms, secretaries, Jacques Guyard, reporter; Messrs. Jean-Claude Bahu, Pierre Bernard, Raoul BŽteille, Mrs. Christine Boutin, Messrs. Jean-Pierre Brard, Jean-Franois Calvo, Rene Chub, Mrs. Martine David, Messrs. Pierre Delmar, Bernard Derosier, Eric DoligŽ, Jean-Pierre Foucher, Jean Geney, Alain Gest, Jean Gravel, Jacques Guyard, Pierre Lang, Gerard Larrat, Claude-Gerard Marcus, Thierry Mariani, Mrs. Odile Moirin, Messrs. George Mothron, Jacques Myard, Mrs. Catherine Nicolas, Messrs. Francisque Perrut, Daniel Picotin, Marc Reymann, Marcel Castlings, Rudy Rooms and Mrs. Suzanne Sauvaigo.
    | date = 22 December 1995
    | title = Report of LA COMMISSION D'ENQUÊTE SUR LES SECTES (Board of Inquiry into Cults)
    | url =
    | publisher = ASSEMBLÉE NATIONALE
    | format =
    | others =
    | edition =
    | location =
    | chapter =
    | section =
    | page =
    | pages =
    | docket =
    | accessdate =
    | quote = Le Tribunal de grande instance de Dijon a, par ailleurs, été amené, dans un jugement du 9 janvier 1987 (no 118-87), à condamner le directeur-adjoint du centre Narconon de Grangey-sur-Ource pour non assistance à personne en danger. Ce centre, créé par l'Eglise de Scientologie, propose des cures de désintoxication en appliquant les méthodes de Ron Hubbard, à savoir la procédure de " purification " , fondée principalement sur plusieurs heures de sauna par jour, des " auditions " et une absorption importante de vitamines. En l'espèce, la victime était depuis longtemps soignée pour épilepsie et s'était adressée à cet organisme car elle souhaitait se " libérer des médicaments " . Le centre l'a, sans examen médical préalable, placée dans une chambre de " sevrage " . Or, les expertises médicales ont montré que le décès était dû à " un état de mal épileptique dû à l'absence de traitement suffisant à son début et de traitement d'urgence pendant l'état de mal. " Le jugement ne laisse aucun doute sur la responsabilité du centre :

    " Que si Jocelyne Dorfmann avait pris la décision de réduire sa consommation médicamenteuse, puis de l'interrompre au risque de compromettre son état de santé, les prévenus ne l'ont à aucun moment prévenue de la nécessité d'un examen médical d'admission, lequel aurait vraisemblablement permis de contre-indiquer la cure de sevrage ; qu'il est inconcevable que la victime ait pu être acceptée sans cet examen et sans entretien sérieux malgré ses déclarations sur son état de santé et son épilepsie, alors que les prévenus ont reconnu savoir qu'en cas de maladie grave, le traitement médical ne devait pas souffrir d'interruption ;

    " Que si lors de la survenue de la première crise, les prévenus ont pu se méprendre sur la nature exacte, la répétition des crises et leur intensité croissante devaient leur évoquer une origine distincte d'un état de manque qui, selon les médecins experts, ne peut être confondu avec un état épileptique ;

    " Qu'ils n'ont pas jugé utile de demander directement à la victime, alors qu'elle était encore consciente, si ces manifestations pouvaient correspondre aux crises d'épilepsie auxquelles elle avait fait allusion ou de faire appel au médecin le plus proche. (...) "

    --- Translation ---

    The County Court of Dijon, in addition, was brought, in a judgement of January 9, 1987 (No 118-87), to condemn the director-assistant of the Narconon center of Grangey- on-Ource for nonassistance to someone in danger. This center, created by the Church of Scientology, proposes detoxification by applying the methods of Ron Hubbard, namely the procedure of "purification," based mainly on several hours of sauna per day, "auditions," and a significant absorption of vitamins. In this case, the victim had been in long-term treatment for epilepsy and had addressed this organization because she wished "to be released from drugs." The center A, without preliminary medical examination, placed her in a "weaning" room. However, the medical experts showed that her death was due to "an epileptic seizure due to the absence of sufficient treatment at its beginning and of emergency treatment during the seizure." The judgement does not leave any doubt about the responsibility of the center:

    "That if Jocelyne Dorfmann had made the decision to reduce her consumption of medication, then to stop it with the risk of compromising her health, the defendants had not at any time prevented it of the need for a medical examination of admission, which would have probably made it possible to contra-indicate the cure of weaning; that it is inconceivable that the victim could be accepted without this examination and serious treatment in spite of her declarations as to her health and her epilepsy, whereas the defendants admitted knowing that in the event of serious illness, medical treatment was not to suffer from interruption;

    "That if at the time the first crisis occurred, the defendants could mistake its exact nature, the repetition of the crises and their increasing intensity were to evoke to them an origin distinct from a state of lack which, according to medical experts, cannot be confused with an epileptic state;

    "That they did not consider it useful to directly ask the victim, while she was still conscious, if these demonstrations could correspond to the epileptic fits to which she had referred or to call upon the nearest doctor (...)"


    What the hell is that?
  19. Anonymous Member

    Yeah, some of the citations are way to verbose.
  20. Anonymous Member

    Latest whitewash

    Changed from "Narconon has been described as a Scientology front group"
    to "Narconon has been described by many journalists, critics, and former Narconon patients as a Scientology front group"
    I dare say a few former staff who also describe it as that will be wondering why they were left out.

    The entire 'Drugs for sex' allegations section was ripped out, along with a section on 5martz, a "See also" wikilink to Quackery and it was removed from the Category:pseudoscience
    • Like Like x 1
  21. Anonymous Member

    I'm bumping this thread because the three lead paragraphs of the Narconon article at Wikipedia have been sanitized (as in, references to Scientology and Narconon being basically a scam have been removed, and the factual stuff has been buried lower down.

    The first three paras now read:

    Article needs some Anon love to get the pro-Scientology bullshit out of these lead paragraphs.
    • Like Like x 2
  22. Anonymous Member

    A healthy dose of WP:FRINGE should do the trick:
    • Like Like x 2
  23. Anonymous Member

    Please do.
    • Like Like x 2
  24. DeathHamster Member

    • Like Like x 2
  25. Disambiguation Global Moderator

    • Like Like x 1
  26. DeathHamster Member

    • Like Like x 1
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  27. DeathHamster Member

    And someone is right on the Talk page: What's up with that crazy picture link and no references?
    • Like Like x 1
  28. DeathHamster Member

    • Like Like x 3
  29. DeathHamster Member

  30. Incredulicide Member

    Revision as of 00:47, 13 December 2016 (edit) (undo) (thank)
    Therealtruman (talk | contribs)
    (‎Narconon and Scientology: Delete unverifiable information - cited link is dead)
    What was removed:
    "In Montreal, Narconon employees describe themselves as 'FSM's, a Scientology abbreviation for Field Staff Member,<ref>{{cite web | url = |accessdate=7 October 2006 | title = Narconon Information Center of Montreal | quote = © Copyright 2006 Lafleche Dumais & Richard Kelly Narconon FSM.}}</ref>"
    There are two copies of that linked page on from 2006 still showing the Copyright statement as quoted:

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