National Association of Forensic Counselors vs. Narconon

Discussion in 'Narconon' started by sallysock, May 18, 2014.

  1. Random guy Member

    Now this is something!

    I look forward to see how this case fares! Results from this one may become interesting to the Rathbun lawsuit which I believe will be long and drawn out.
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  2. BigBeard Member

    Sounds like NAFC got hold of, or rediscovered for themselves, the hard evidence about the corporate sham that got Cof$ to settle the Wollersheim case so it wouldn't become part of the record.

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  3. Random guy Member

    My thought exactly.
  4. fishypants Moderator

    Remind me what the hard evidence was in that case?

    Are we talking about this?
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  5. wolfbane Member

    It was never disclosed publicly.


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  6. Random guy Member

    Question is: Have NAFC got access to it? Do the cult thing they have? Can they afford to assume they have not?

    If NAFC have have done their homework, the stakes are a lot higher for the cult than just Narconon.
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  7. fishypants Moderator

    I have a bit of a "does the hard evidence" (which means, to me, a "smoking gun" document) "actually exist?" question as well.

    First-time-round (the W case) it could just have been the threat of Young's depo. And of course it would have been in the interests of W's lawyers to talk up the value of any evidence they did have, in order to get the best settlement possible for W.

    Of course I hope it does exist (and it gets into the public domain sometime).
  8. BigBeard Member

    None of it's been made public that I know of, but my understanding at the time was there were in fact internal Cof$ documents Cof$ wanted kept out of the light that Young's depo would have verified and brought into the record. And the settlement happened at the last moment to prevent that.

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  9. fishypants Moderator

    Oh good. :)
  10. wolfbane Member

    According to the RECAP'd docket updates as of July 1, 2014:

    A few of these floaters have been picked up the various firms already involved in the case...
    And here's where they landed...
    Oddities - As of July 1st Miscavige didn't get picked up by the exec strata firm representing RTC, yet Clark Carr got rolled into the firm hired for Narconon Int & ABLE.

    Additional note - the real time docket in PACER was last updated July 23rd, so there may be additional updates to the above lists that haven't been captured in the RECAP archive yet.
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  11. fishypants Moderator

    Tracks to a residential address in East Sussex (so near Saint Hill of course).

    Is the former registrant of (now defunct).

    Is the current registrant of narconon-drug-educ, which is an active Narconon website.

    Companies House data shows it as an active business (though with a negative net worth).

    Directors are Mr Karlheinz Schneider and Ms Melanie Atkinson.

    A few references to Karlheinz Schneider:
    The final one of those sources asserts that KS is a 'Patron Meritorious' of the IAS, having donated $250k+.

    My Patron Meritorious is a stag, like Harry Potter's!
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  12. DeathHamster Member

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  13. fishypants Moderator

    drugre is on the same IP address - looks like the two domain names point to the same site.

    Registrant for that one is Amazing Internet Ltd of Twickenham, again with a -ve net worth.

    Director is Mr Andrew Martin Skirrow, Secretary is Ms Lucy Anne Skirrow

    Here is some Skirrow-info:
    (I've not verified those).

    http://www.our- <----Scientology site, beware

    Lucy Skirrow is "the Narconon director dealing with schools"
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  14. DeathHamster Member

    Amazing Internet always seemed pretty clammy, so I fished a lot more sites out of their address space which don't show on the list because they're not classified.

    This whois will return .com .net .org .biz (but not .uk) domains for an IP address (e.g.
    • Like Like x 4
  15. tinfoilhatter Member

    that is great, because add the legal fees, and ongoing damage to the multiplier.
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  16. DeathHamster Member

    Perhaps Gary Smith will be sent to the RPF, again.

    I'm not certain, but that sure looks like Gary Smith, many years ago. (RPF with a gold band. He's been a good bad boy.)
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  17. The Wrong Guy Member

    Things heating up again in Oklahoma

    Scientology’s various entities are firing back now at the National Assocation of Forensic Counselors (NAFC), which filed a lawsuit against 82 defendants it claimed were misusing its logos and trademarks in order to make Scientology’s drug rehab network, Narconon, appear more legitimate than it really is. We’ll let our legal types pore over these documents and let us know what they think about Scientology’s salvos:

    Continued at
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  18. fishypants Moderator


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  19. DeathHamster Member

    Reading the dox, the Kent McGregor unit sounds like it's broken.

    For amusement:
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  20. DeathHamster Member

    It's no wonder so many groups are being sued. Narconon is a very incestuous little world.

    Kent McGregor, 2008, in Oklahoma at or near Arrowhead at the time:
    From there, Sylvain Fournier ends up involved with Narconon Trois-Rivieres, Kent sets up shop in Colorado and/or Texas, Eric Mitchell takes charge at Narconon Spring Hill in Florida...
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  21. DeathHamster Member

    Oh yeah, and Kent McGregor probably says that he doesn't know the meaning of the word Oklahoma...
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  22. atsah Member

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  23. Quentinanon Member

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  24. tinfoilhatter Member

    Well that raises a bunch of questions.

    Isn't able some sort of management cert scam? The problem with this, is that looks like a franchising fee, and if it is, then guess who gets added to the lulzsuit.

    That's the problem with franchising, they make it seem like its the greatest system for big companies that want to expand, but they fail to mention the liability gets attached to the parent company if the franchises fuck up.

    this raises a lot of very interesting questions.
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  25. tinfoilhatter Member

    Well, this gets interesting, according to able's 990s, that amount of money would be a THIRD of their yearly income.

    I find it interesting that able lists removing immorality on its 990s. They are very careful not to define what it is.

    the 990 is attached if anyone wants to read it.

    Attached Files:

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  26. DeathHamster Member

    Of course it's a scam, but Narconon franchises do have to pay 10% gross income in licensing fees.
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  27. What I find interesting is Narconon Int. say they do not supervise the licensed facilities yet the 990 docs say different
  28. tinfoilhatter Member

    So, they are either lying to the court, or lying to the IRS.

    Man, this has the potential for super ugliness.
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  29. tinfoilhatter Member

    I am starting to understand why they hate David love so much. Narconon is one of the few cash flows into the cult that i can fully trace. The lulzy part, is its as much a liability as it is a revenue stream.

    I honestly was expecting a lawsuit from some celebrity or rich persons kid dying in one of the "rehabs". Yet this trade license dispute is probably going to be their undoing.
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  30. jensting Member

    Where it gets even better than the IRS forms is when the individual narCONon centers become IAS donors. Now THAT'S lulzy :)
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  31. Random guy Member

    Pardon my retardedness, but what happens in court when a company gives inconsistent statements like this? Do the court have to decide what kind of relationship it is between mother and daughter company?
  32. tinfoilhatter Member

    9 times out of 10, someone goes to jail. In big smart companies, they usually set someone up to be a patsy. In small businesses, the guy responsible goes to "jail" for 3 years.The other 1 tenth of the time, its because the embezzlement was being performed by someone outside the company, like an accounting firm, this is not about embezzlement yet, so this does not apply here.

    The catch, is this is a non-profit. A non-profit that has lied about its credentials for treating its patients. People have died in this rehab. And money is being sent elsewhere. Its not a pretty picture. Worse still, if the IRS fails to do anything, then all anyone has to do, is point this out to a conservative congressperson(I would point this out to ALL the conservative congress people) and say "they are letting them off because they are not a christian organization". If it gets picked up, the shit storm would be devastating.
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  33. fishypants Moderator

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  34. RightOn Member

    shit is heatin' up!
    And when I say shit I mean Narconon
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  35. RolandRB Member

    But killing a few pets would be neither here nor there?
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  36. From TheTipping Point,12782.20.html

    How is WUS related to NI, from WUS 2012 Form 990 Part IV Checklist of Required Schedules?
    Box 34, the x is under the yes column so Schedule R must be completed


    Schedule R Part II Requires name of related organization
    Schedule A Part 1 requires the organization to select it’s reason to be classified as a public charity
    WUS selected Schedule "A" Part I 11c "Functionally integrated"

    Who is WUS functionally integrated with according Schedule A 11h (A) Narconon International.

    • Type III—Functionally Integrated. Check this box if the organization is not described in Type I or Type II above and qualifies as a Type III functionally integrated supporting organization by meeting the following requirements:
    1. The organization meets the notification requirement described in line 11h, column (v);
    2. The organization meets the responsiveness test (both the relationship requirement and the significant voice requirement) described in Regulations section 1.509(a)-4(i)(3); and
    3. The organization meets the integral part test by engaging in activities substantially all of which directly further the exempt purposes of one or more supported organizations, and, but for the supporting organization's involvement, such activities would normally be engaged in by the supported organizations; or, alternatively, by being the parent of each of its supported organizations. See Regulations section 1.509(a)-4(i)(4).
    Transition Rule. On December 28, 2012, new regulations changed this integral part test for a Type III functionally integrated supporting organization, primarily by requiring that “substantially all” of the organization's activities must directly further the supported organizations' exempt purposes. Some organizations that met the integral part test for prior tax years may no longer meet the new integral part test. However, under transition rules (Regulations section 1.509(a)-4(i)(11)(ii)(A)), an organization in existence on December 28, 2012 that met and continues to meet the prior integral part test for Type III functionally integrated supporting organizations will be deemed to have met the new integral part test for its first tax year beginning after December 28, 2012 only, and therefore may check the box for line 11c, if it satisfies the other requirements for Type III functionally integrated supporting organizations. For subsequent tax years, the organization must meet the new integral part test in order to qualify as functionally integrated.

    Number 3 from above is interesting:
    3. The organization meets the integral part test by engaging in activities substantially all of which directly further the exempt purposes of one or more supported organizations, and, but for the supporting organization's involvement, such activities would normally be engaged in by the supported organizations; or, alternatively, by being the parent of each of its supported organizations. See Regulations section 1.509(a)-4(i)(4).

    If WUS was not created would NI be performing the tech assist and supervision of the facilities?
  37. TorontosRoot Member

    Holy fuck, those scifaggots are really going to regret it when their front group gets fined heavily and them charged for practicing medicine without any license, causing deaths and neglecting patients.
  38. The Wrong Guy Member

    From Tony Ortega:

    ...we have some other documents for you to look at in another lawsuit that has become a huge headache for the Church of Scientology. Filed by the National Association of Forensic Counselors, it’s taking aim at 82 defendants who, the NAFC claims, misused its logo and drug counseling certificates in a years long conspiracy to make Scientology’s drug rehab network, Narconon, appear more legitimate than it is.

    The NAFC this week filed numerous responses to motions to dismiss that had been entered by some of the defendants. Here’s the one NAFC attorney David Keesling filed in response to the Church of Scientology International (CSI), just one of the 82 defendants.

    “This case is about Defendant Church of Scientology International being the ultimate mastermind behind the brazen theft of Plaintiffs’ logos, trademarks, certifications, and established business reputation in order to bait vulnerable victims into the Scientology religion,” Keesling writes.

    We’ll post some of the other responses here as we have time.

    Response to motion to dismiss by PITA group, Gary Smith, et al.
    Response to motion to dismiss by Narconon International
    Response to motion to dismiss by Best Drug Rehabilitation
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  39. Quentinanon Member

    Ironic that the scientology crime syndicate is hyper sensitive about unauthorized use and misuse of their trademarks, but brazenly misuse the trademarks of another organisation.
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  40. Anonymous Member

    It is very ironic and extends into what may turn out to be flagrant plagiarism:

    Photo the cult presented TWTH.jpg

    cult plagiarism oops.jpg
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