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Neil Gaiman stands with Scientology!

Discussion in 'Celebrity News' started by krampus, Feb 15, 2010.

  1. magnet Member

    Re: Neil Gaiman stands with Scientology!

    He apparently was in the Sea Org and ran the Birmingham org for a while back in the 80's. One of the independents, Haydn James, I believe knew him when he was active.
    He was also listed in the Celebrity Scientologists blogspot last year until he had them take it off.
    Whether he is an active Scientologist or not is not confirmed. He has family inside and, I'm sure, doesn't want to mess up that relationship. And as Smurf points out, it would do his career no good to announce he was in.
  2. Lorelei Member

    Re: Neil Gaiman stands with Scientology!

    The acid test will come when his older relatives kick the bucket. If he continues to contribute when there is no reason to fear Disconnection or harassment, then you have your answer.

    FWIW, I have never detected any pro-CofS messages or references in any of his writing. If it is there, he is keeping it WAY on the down-low. I'd have to re-read to check, but in "American Gods," he had opportunity to slip a neutral or pro-slant in, but did not do so. In fact, the "American Gods" mentioned are the second-tier Big Bads. (The first tier Big Bad is supposed to be a surprise, but if you aren't braindead and know anything about Norse mythology at all, you'll figure out where the story is leading far in advance.)

    This does NOT, of course, answer the question, "Is he or isn't he?"

    It IS interesting to me that he has many opportunities to throw some positive slant CofS's way, however, and (unless I missed it) chooses not to do so. And he is prolific. It's not like he hasn't written enough yet, or hasn't had time to get around to it, or hasn't written something where it would not be out of place, plot-wise, to throw the cult a bone or a pat on the head.

    I'm definitely not thrilled that he is, according to the cult, throwing money at them. On the other hand, it would not be unprecedented for the cult to lie about something; perhaps even lie and say a famous person donated to them when he or she did not. (Though, TBH, I am inclined to take the published evidence at face value and accept that he DID donate.)

    I know very little about the Dresden Dolls and his new wife (Amanda? Amelia...something? I don't pay close attention to these things and I've forgotten). Is she or isn't she? Do we even know? If she isn't, and the first wife was, that may be where those donations came from. I've had relationships where my partner decided to donate to groups as both of us; fortunately I had no problem with any of the charities and groups he donated to, but I had nothing to do with the donating myself. We'll have to wait and see what the next publication has to say about that; if the donations continue.
  3. Anonymous Member

    Re: Neil Gaiman stands with Scientology!

    If Amanda Fucking Palmer is a Scientologist, I will drop out of Anon and eat my hat.
  4. Lorelei Member

    Re: Neil Gaiman stands with Scientology!

    Thanks for the name. I suck at remembering proper nouns sometimes.

    Also, this info pleases me.
  5. Anonymous Member

    Re: Neil Gaiman stands with Scientology!

    Guess I will be downloading jpegs of the Sandman comics instead of buying the box set of them I saw at the store. I'll download his e-books too.
  6. Re: Neil Gaiman stands with Scientology!



    I do respect your opinion.... (though your first sentence is a bit confusing here).

    As pointed out earlier, Gaiman was never a bean and rice eating Sea Org/ Slave Caste Scientologist, he was a Case Supervisor, auditor and then a Celebrity of sorts, so of course he would be seen with non Scientologists who can further his career, like all celebrity Scientologists are. Tom Cruise is regularly photographed and works with an array of non-Scientologists. Can a Sea Org member do this? Probably not.

    Gaiman wants to distance himself from Scientology and then in the next breath, defend it. It's like the philosophical conundrum about the tree in the forest, "If a tree falls in the forest and there's no one there to hear it, does it make a sound?"

    If in the privacy of his own thoughts, Neil Gaiman thinks he's not a Scientologist, but regularly funds the cult, either directly or through dependent family members and defends Scientology's fucked up policies, is he a Scientologist?

    If Scientology believes Neil Gaiman is a Scientologist, but in the privacy of his own thoughts, Neil Gaiman thinks he's not a Scientologist, is he a Scientologist?

    It all sounds a lot like President Clinton's "I did not have sex with that woman," I just shoved a cigar up her vagina and had her suck me off, but it wasn't sex!?! Come on!

    Neil Gaiman, in my opinion, is a ball-less hypocrite, who funds the cult of Scientology.

    I actually do believe that Gaiman's early upbringing has brainwashed him into some very common Scientology habits such as ignoring critics and never reading anti Scientology information. How else could a man like Gaiman say, "I will stand with groups when I feel like they're being properly persecuted" (Scientology) if he had ever looked at Lisa McPherson's beautiful face and then seen her roach eaten corpse?

    http://www.lisamcpherson.org/lisapics.htm

    Why don't you ask Gaiman about that? Ask him about whether he has seen Lisa McPherson's corpse and what he thinks about her innocent death?

    Does he believe that Lisa was "properly persecuted?"

    Does Neil Gaiman stand with Lisa McPherson?
  7. Anonymous Member

    Re: Neil Gaiman stands with Scientology!

    Start chomping.

    "Amanda Palmer is a social climbing Scientologist and part of a network of Scientologists who continually promote each other. ..."

    Amanda Palmer & Neil Gaiman @ Housing Works, NYC - pics - BrooklynVegan

    The Daily Swarm - 'Fuckin' Nekkid': Dresden Dolls' Amanda Palmer Posts Nude Photos of Herself... Asks Twitter Followers to Get Creative, Post Results... [NSFW]
  8. ZeLyt Member

    Re: Neil Gaiman stands with Scientology!

    So it would seem that the only evidence we have is his name on some donation list. The rest is speculation and that he refuses to speak one way or the other.

    I'm still on the fence with this one, as they could easily be using his name for its popularity. The same way they claim "millions of members"
  9. Holl Anon Member

    Re: Neil Gaiman stands with Scientology!

    Not true. Gailman & family's membership in the cult has been well-documented. His mother still owns a herbal store adjacent to St. Hill in the U.K. His Scilon father recently passed.
  10. ZeLyt Member

    Re: Neil Gaiman stands with Scientology!

    I mean evidence of Neil Gaiman himself. Not his family. I know his family is in deep.
  11. Anonymous Member

    Re: Neil Gaiman stands with Scientology!

    OMG SOMEONE ON THE INTERNET SAID IT IN AN ANONYMOUS COMMENT. IT MUST BE TRUE.

    TRY HARDER.
  12. Anonymous Member

    Re: Neil Gaiman stands with Scientology!

    And this is why L Ron specifically sent recruiters after celebrities and gave out plaques and bonuses to those who reeled them in; people have such a blind spot about celebrity foibles.
  13. Anonymous Member

    Re: Neil Gaiman stands with Scientology!

    I had read (and believe) that Scientologists in creative arts have to get permission to even mention Scientology in their works, just mention it at all, they must have it approved, and they would never get approval. Just as a FYI.

    That Battlefield Earth movie stands out as the big exception to this. Though technically that didn't extoll the cult.

    -- Girl Who Knows
  14. Re: Neil Gaiman stands with Scientology!

    Snarg
  15. Anonymous Member

    Re: Neil Gaiman stands with Scientology!

    Not true.
    If they quote Hubbard or some official organization document or if they use the symbols then they need approval. They don't need approval to mention Scientology or that they are members.
  16. whoever Member

    Re: Neil Gaiman stands with Scientology!

    If someone came here and posted comments like that, they'd be told to back them up. So why accept them simply because they're posted on another site?

    I have no idea if Palmer is a Scientologist or not. I'd need something more reliable than connecting the dots and jumping to conclusions before I'd claim that she is.
  17. Anonymous Member

    Re: Neil Gaiman stands with Scientology!

    If you're interested, there is more discussion of Gaiman and Amanda Palmer in this thread.
  18. Re: Neil Gaiman stands with Scientology!

    One of the difficulties in gathering intelligence about the cult is that we need to analyse the intelligence gathered and draw actionable conclusions.

    We can't just gather intelligence, we have to be intelligence analysts.

    Intelligence Analysis Analytical Methods

    Despite the fact that it has been observed again and again that Scientologists disconnect from family members who have blown, some in this thread argue that Neil Gaiman is somehow immune to this behavior. And Neil Gaiman is counting on the fact that you will question what you know to be true about the cult, in order to control your perception of him and the fact he is funding Scientology.

    Why not try some deductive reasoning here?

    Logic, valid, arguments, deductive, inductive, syllogism, analogy, modus ponens, fallacies, symbolic



    Or, as applied to Neil Gaiman:


    Scientologists disconnect from family members who leave Scientology.

    Neil Gaiman's family members are Scientologists and remain connected to him.

    Therefore, Neil Gaiman is a Scientologist.


    This can also be applied to Amanda Palmer.


    Scientologists marry scientologists or recruit their fiancees.

    Neil Gaiman is a Scientologist engaged to Amanda Palmer.

    Therefore, Amanda Palmer is either a Scientologist or is being recruited.

    On a more positive note, the New York Times article is a great achievement for Anonymous since crazy Tommy Davis is now admitting that they do have a stringent disconnect policy.

    Defectors Say Church of Scientology Hides Abuse - NYTimes.com

  19. Anonymous Member

    Re: Neil Gaiman stands with Scientology!

    Neil Gaiman is a Scientologist... because I say so.
  20. Anonymous Member

    Re: Neil Gaiman stands with Scientology!

    That syllogism is more beautiful in its original language:
  21. q_p Member

    Re: Neil Gaiman stands with Scientology!






    The problem with this and the subsequent logic is Scientologist disconnect, and I'm talking about the Cult's punitive disconnection, because of people speaking out about Scientology. If you don't criticize the cult, they'll leave you alone. Merely leaving doesn't mean automatic disconnection.

    But that's the burn, if you try to warn others or speak out about the obvious wrongs, you will be handled. If that fails, they will try to use disconnection as leverage if they can.
  22. Anonymous Member

    Re: Neil Gaiman stands with Scientology!

    Per the testimony of several ex-members and what we learned from the FBI raid years ago, Scientology uses sleeper agents. These are typically ex-publics with connections useful to the Scientology organization.

    Thus sorting who's in and who's out isn't straightforward. We're in danger of Type I mistakes (believing someone is a Scientologist when they aren't) and Type II mistakes (believing someone is out when they're still in. Guarding against one error will simply increase the frequency of the other.

    Therefore, where we set the evidential bar depends upon what is best for Anonymous, NOT what is best for any given celebrity under question.

    In my opinion, it's to Anonymous' advantage to turn up the heat on celebrities right now. Make them pay for their uncertain affiliation with Scientology, until they must do damage to the cult to prove themselves free.
  23. Anonymous Member

    Re: Neil Gaiman stands with Scientology!

    Your wording almost sounds like you're possibly suggesting persecution of people who are not sekrit Scientologists but who are people trying to keep their families together in spite of those family members' bad behavior.

    Here, I'll put it into perspective for you with a little tale about myself:
    My brother is a drug addict and alcoholic who is also married to a fellow drug addict and alcoholic, and despite this and all of his troubles that have come along with that behavior, for years my family and I have tried to be supportive of them and keep from severing ties. In his mind, he and his wife are completely normal and anyone that suggests rehab is crazy, so we don't bring it up to him unless the reference is extremely subtle. Because we don't want to "disconnect" from him, it doesn't make us addicts in turn - we've simply done all that we can with what we're given.

    Give it some thought.
  24. Anonymous Member

    Re: Neil Gaiman stands with Scientology!

    .

    [mod]Tinfoil alert: Anon poster is not who you think they are.[/mod]
  25. Anonymous Member

    Re: Neil Gaiman stands with Scientology!

    By "make them pay," I mean stripping away the advantage of an ambiguous affiliation that can be read either way. We do that by deciding that we're going to interpret ambiguity as evidence of tacit support for Scientology. If that's an embarassment to Gaiman, he can do something about it.
  26. Anonymous Member

    Re: Neil Gaiman stands with Scientology!

    Fair enough. Thank you for elaborating, it's far too easy to read into something the wrong way.
  27. Anonymous Member

    Re: Neil Gaiman stands with Scientology!

    You don't win people over to your side by shitting on them.
  28. Anonymous Member

    Re: Neil Gaiman stands with Scientology!

    The previous post seemed perfectly reasonable to me.
  29. LWrongHubbard Member

    Re: Neil Gaiman stands with Scientology!

    Well, now we know why he gave Battlefield Earth a good review.
  30. Anonymous Member

    Re: Neil Gaiman stands with Scientology!

    I dunno, that review seemed pretty wink-wink-nudge-nudge to me.
  31. LWrongHubbard Member

    Re: Neil Gaiman stands with Scientology!

    I s'pose. It did make me want to read it in a "Well, if it's enjoyably awful..." kind of way. Then I remembered this was post-Dianetics "I don't need editors" Hubbard.
  32. Anonymous Member

    Re: Neil Gaiman stands with Scientology!

    I am analyzing language; I don't think I asserted who I think the poster is. Tinfoil alert is tinfiolly.
  33. Lorelei Member

    Re: Neil Gaiman stands with Scientology!

    Thank you. *clicks*
  34. Anonymous Member

    Re: Neil Gaiman stands with Scientology!

    It seems something interesting is going on in this thread. But I'm afraid it's over my head.

    So everyone now agrees that Neil Gaiman is a Scientologist, as he's still in contact with his Scientology family and he hasn't lifted a finger to undo the damage he's done funding it and promoting it.

    Glad that's settled.

    inb4nextGaimanthread
  35. cubby Member

    Re: Neil Gaiman stands with Scientology!

    a jew?

    i'm guessing a jew
  36. Anonymous Member

    Re: Neil Gaiman stands with Scientology!

    Neil Gaiman's family were never eating rice and beans or going without, his father's business has always been cult related but he also kept aspects of own family life separate to the cult when it suited him.

    There's various families like this still in with the cult - 2nd and third generation, sons and daughters of the old GO lot. They aren't going up the bridge but they don't speak out because they have no incentive to. They personally have had a comfortable life thanks very much and have pretty much gotten to have and do what they like. Neil Gaiman is one of these. I bet he's never spoken up for anything unless it benefited him directly.

    If he can look good standing up for a 'persecuted' 'religion' and it benefits him directly to say things, then he will start whining publicly about being affiliated to 'persecuted scientologists'. If not- he'll remain quiet in his privileged existence.
  37. Anonymous Member

    Re: Neil Gaiman stands with Scientology!

    LOL, close. A filthy rich person. That's my bet.

    This thread is now about class warfare.
  38. Anonymous Member

    Re: Neil Gaiman stands with Scientology!

  39. Re: Neil Gaiman stands with Scientology!

    Awesome post. Much as I love a good debate, exposing the cult is the priority.

    I read the manifesto now and then because it is so heartening. I want to thank those who wrote this because it got me through the night.

    Hello, Scientology. We are Anonymous.

    Over the years, we have been watching you. Your campaigns of misinformation; your suppression of dissent; your litigious nature, all of these things have caught our eye. With the leakage of your latest propaganda video into mainstream circulation, the extent of your malign influence over those who have come to trust you as leaders has been made clear to us.

    Anonymous has therefore decided that your organization should be destroyed.

    For the good of your followers, for the good of mankind–and for our own enjoyment–we shall proceed to expel you from the Internet and systematically dismantle the Church of Scientology in its present form. We recognize you as a serious opponent, and do not expect our campaign to be completed in a short time frame. However, you will not prevail forever against the angry masses of the body politic. Your choice of methods, your hypocrisy, and the general artlessness of your organization have sounded its death knell.

    You have nowhere to hide, because we are everywhere.

    You will find no recourse in attack, because for each of us that falls, ten more will take this place. We are cognizant of the many who may decry our methods as parallel to the “church” of Scientology.
    Those who espouse the obvious truth that your organization will use the actions of Anonymous as an example of the persecution of which you have so long warned your followers; this is acceptable. In fact, it is encouraged. We are your SPs.

    Gradually as we merge our pulse with that of your “Church”, the suppression of your followers will become increasingly difficult to maintain. Believers will become aware, that salvation needn’t come at the expense of their livelihood. They will become aware that the stress and the frustration they feel is not due to us, but a source much closer to them. No–they will see that it stems from a source far closer to each. Yes, we are SPs. But the sum of suppression we could ever muster is eclipsed by that of your own RTC.

    Knowledge is free.
    We are Anonymous.
    We are Legion.
    We do not forgive.
    WE DO NOT FORGET.
    Expect us.
  40. Re: Neil Gaiman stands with Scientology!

    The problem with your little analogy is that Scientology forces their sick disconnection policy on loving parents, husbands, wives and children, who have done nothing more than exercise their free will by leaving a miserable, greedy, abusive, avaricious, totalitarian cult. Or, in many cases, Scientology disconnects members from innocent people who are deemed "Suppressive."

    So if we rewrite your story Scientology style, it goes like this...

    My brother is a Wog who sees a therapist and is also married to another Wog, and despite this and all of his troubles that have come along from being a Wog, for years my family and I have tried to convince him to get back on the bridge and get some auditing to keep from severing ties. In his mind, he and his wife are completely normal and anyone that suggests auditing and expensive OT Levels and Purification Rundowns, is crazy. So we don't bring it up to him unless the reference is extremely subtle. Although we don't want to "disconnect" from him, we also don't want to be considered Potential Trouble Sources and be punished at an RPF Camp, or disconnected ourselves - so our Case Supervisor finally declared my brother and his wife Suppressive and wrote a disconnection letter for me. I agreed to never speak to my Suppressive Brother or bother to explain to him what happened or why. Despite his pleas for an explanation, I ignored his emotions, which are obviously low on the tone scale, instead I will pretend my brother does not exist, for cruelty, domination and abuse are admired by our cult, while sympathy, empathy and love are seen as weak and pathetic.

    "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law..." said Crowley. Or was that Hubbard?

    Sorry about your bro.

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