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Neil Gaiman's not a Scientologist, but ..... (was "Neil Gaiman's Out")

Discussion in 'Celebrity News' started by Anonymous, Jan 20, 2010.

  1. Zak McKracken Member

    Re: Neil Gaiman's not a Scientologist, but ..... (was "Neil Gaiman's Out")

    Perhaps. I personally believe he's somewhere in between.
    Not a 'Great Man', but most of us aren't great men either.

    Indeed they do.
    I recognize him as 'human' and if perhaps he does want 'out'
    he doesn't have the guts to blow; just yet anyway.

    If you've ever read any of his writing, you'd realize the author knows these things pretty damned well. What I can't tell, if whether he's comfortable or resigned to 'cowardice, hypocrisy, deceit'- or if he will dare face them. He hasn't, so far.

    He writes about being abused by insane and selfish parents. He writes about struggling with delusions, the difficulty of differentiating the real from imaginary; particularly of people whose lives are split between multiple worlds -which deny the validity of eachother.

    I think he's half-way out of CoS. I hope he gets the rest of the way out.
    He's not a hero, but (like BFG, Tory, Smurf, etc) he may still have some humanity left to salvage. Next move is up to him.
  2. Re: Neil Gaiman's not a Scientologist, but ..... (was "Neil Gaiman's Out")

    Dude, I hope you're his exit counselor :)
  3. Zak McKracken Member

    Re: Neil Gaiman's not a Scientologist, but ..... (was "Neil Gaiman's Out")

    He's not one of my favorite writers, TBH, but for a ufodeathcultist he's pretty good.
    Longer you're in, the blacker the karma. If he can't find the courage to gtfo.... imo he'll eventually an hero.
  4. Anonymous Member

    Re: Neil Gaiman's not a Scientologist, but ..... (was "Neil Gaiman's Out")

    Sorry but I have to interpret Mr. Gaiman's silence as tacit consent. Nothing personal against him; just the only rational response possible when dealing with an organization so famous for its secrecy and double-dealing.

    I'd like to believe that a writer capable of creating compelling characters would also be deeply human. I'd like to believe that I would admire Mr. Gaiman as a man --even as a friend, were I to know him personally. But I'm aware of several brilliant authors who also happened to be total shits.

    I've been willing to ignore the Scientology for the sake of the pleasure of Gaiman's stories, which are quite good. But today I saw a scan of Ciancio's funeral program. I keep thinking about the boy with a father shot dead on his seventh birthday. Some bullshit about an Ideal Org in Denver being the greatest good for the greatest number of dynamics, per Mr. Gaiman's cult of stars and starfuckers.

    Then there's this:
    Jesus, even a spineless weasel shouldn't have to go through that. That kind of pressure on a family is wrong. If I could do something to help, to take the pressure away, I would.

    But would Gaiman want my help?

    We need some sign, a message in a bottle. Perhaps a small kindness for Dr. Lilly, or for the boy, or the faggots of wwp, or for any of the other countless victims of the miserable cult. Some action recognizably human.

    Until then, dude should bugger off.
  5. Herro Member

    Re: Neil Gaiman's not a Scientologist, but ..... (was "Neil Gaiman's Out")

    Shut up cunts. This thread is now about how awesome amanda palmer and the dresden dolls are.
  6. grebe Member

    Re: Neil Gaiman's not a Scientologist, but ..... (was "Neil Gaiman's Out")

    fify
  7. Anonymous Member

    Re: Neil Gaiman's not a Scientologist, but ..... (was "Neil Gaiman's Out")

    I must say, that 'publicity campaign' is awfully prescient, given that Gaiman's initial collaboration with Amanda Palmer preceded the announcement on his blog that he'd gotten divorced.

    Why are people demanding that he disconnect from his family and declaring him a potential trouble source until he does? Isn't that the kind of thing we're repulsed by when Scientologists do it?
  8. Herro Member

    Re: Neil Gaiman's not a Scientologist, but ..... (was "Neil Gaiman's Out")

    Bite your tongue.
  9. Anonymous Member

    Re: Neil Gaiman's not a Scientologist, but ..... (was "Neil Gaiman's Out")

    You referred to Palmer above as a "possible" Scientologist, now you're calling her a "Scientology date." Which is it? Do you know or are you simply guessing?

    And what's your evidence about Tori Amos and Ben Folds? That they have houses near Clearwater and know Gaiman?
  10. thetanic Member

    Re: Neil Gaiman's not a Scientologist, but ..... (was "Neil Gaiman's Out")

    Well, it's really hard to see if Gaiman's really out if he's not saying it directly.

    Also, there's some FUD around the net that Amanda is a Scn as well.
  11. Anonymous Member

    Re: Neil Gaiman's not a Scientologist, but ..... (was "Neil Gaiman's Out")

    See for yourself.
    Lower right-hand side of the page.

    Tee Ball Award Party
  12. grebe Member

    Re: Neil Gaiman's not a Scientologist, but ..... (was "Neil Gaiman's Out")

    Brian and Amanda drove each other crazy.

    Here, a happy memory of "Lonesome Organist Rapes Page Turner" to ease the pain:

  13. Anonymous Member

    Re: Neil Gaiman's not a Scientologist, but ..... (was "Neil Gaiman's Out")

    Low quality evidence, but the kind of thing that's circulated for years without any correction from Tori:

    It's plausible. Celebrity Scientologists are carefully handled. Their connections to the wog world are controlled. Any first degree relationship is with a fellow Scientologist, or someone about to become a Scientologist.

    The Scientologists were the ones to declare war first. They are the ones, not us, who chose to fight for "the world wide obliteration of psychiatry" and the infiltration and control of political power. And they are the ones who so often lie about their status as Scientologists.

    We will never sort who is in or out without some help from the person in the gray zone. He or she needs to say or do something only a wog might say or do. Publicly speaking against disconnection, fair game, the CCHR --that would count for a lot.

    Until then, ambiguous loyalists like Tori Amos need to bugger off.
  14. Anonymous Member

    Re: Neil Gaiman's not a Scientologist, but ..... (was "Neil Gaiman's Out")

    I don't demand that Gaiman disconnect from his family. I would never demand that.

    I don't demand that Gaiman disconnect from his Scientologist friends, either. Let him continue the tech, if he finds it helpful.

    All I want is this: no more money to the cult and a public position against the cult so that his good name is not used to give it unwarranted respectability in the eyes of other authors.

    If Gaiman's not yet ready for open opposition to the cult, he can still help us. He can pass along information to Anonymous in ways that can't be traced back to himself. Later when the cult is dead and he's no longer afraid of retaliation, we will applaud his heroism.

    It's his choice: rich toady to an evil cult or a life of lasting honor.
  15. Re: Neil Gaiman's not a Scientologist, but ..... (was "Neil Gaiman's Out")

    really, I don't see a stampede of writers into the CoS's arms. people bright enough to have published books can see through them.

    about the donations, someone pointed out on the "Brian Gaiman has died" thread that as long as donate enough money to CoS to get an "honor" for it that they keep on it. so the donation from "the Gaiman family" need not have actually happened recently. (if you think about it, the CoS has some cause for making it appear that they receive more donations than they do.)

    as a clarification, though a blurb from him does appear in the Writers of the Future XXV volume, the latest one I think. though so does one from Anne McCaffrey who died ten or more(?) years ago.
  16. Anonymous Member

    Re: Neil Gaiman's not a Scientologist, but ..... (was "Neil Gaiman's Out")

    This thread has some personal relevance because I know happen to know Amanda Palmer. (Or did know and we didn't have the closest of relationships. However almost everyone I know in Boston knows her. Housemates, friends of friends, etc.)

    It does concern me a bit that she might soon get, in effect, married to the mob. I wouldn't want someone I care about to fall into that world.

    The talk about an arranged marriage, etc., I wouldn't believe for a moment. Plain and simple, they fell for each other. Neil Gaiman (who I don't know at all) falls into the category of people she like and would date. (Namely quirky, unusual creative guys.)

    If she has gotten involved in the Church, she must have done it since I hung out with her regularly because she never said anything about it (pro-, con- or anything) in my presence. I would have remembered because I have not liked Scientology for a long time. Also, she has talked openly about her bisexuality (don't know when last) and Scientology wouldn't have approved, would they? (Then again, her fiancee has had positive lesbian characters appear in The Sandman, so what do I know?)

    To sum up: chance of a long-time involvement in the Church of Scientology prior to, say 2005... IMO really low.

    Chances of recent involvement... also low.

    Chances of a set-up marriage... very slim. Again, just IMO.
  17. thetanic Member

    Re: Neil Gaiman's not a Scientologist, but ..... (was "Neil Gaiman's Out")

    Anne is still alive.
  18. Anonymous Member

    Re: Neil Gaiman's not a Scientologist, but ..... (was "Neil Gaiman's Out")

    If I have seemed vague about some things in the previous post (how long I have known her, who I know) well, I would like to stay anonymous. As well, posting about this behind her back, in effect, has me feeling a little guilty.

    Finally, I want to say that I have many times fantasized about sitting down with Neil Gaiman and getting him to take action against Scientology. The photo of him at East Grinstead bothers me. I want to believe he has broken with them for the reasons I have already given.
  19. Re: Neil Gaiman's not a Scientologist, but ..... (was "Neil Gaiman's Out")

    my mistake.
  20. Anonymous Member

    Re: Neil Gaiman's not a Scientologist, but ..... (was "Neil Gaiman's Out")

    So what evidence do we have of any serious connection between Amanda Palmer and Scientology other than the fact that she's banging Neil Gaiman?
  21. whoever Member

    Re: Neil Gaiman's not a Scientologist, but ..... (was "Neil Gaiman's Out")

    There's a lot of circumstantial evidence there, so sure, it's plausible. But I'd like to see some harder dox on "She admits to studying Scientology." Any backup for that, besides this person's comment?

    I don't have any knowledge of her myself, but I'm skeptical because I feel like we would see her associating with more known Scientologists if she were one.
  22. Anonymous Member

    Re: Neil Gaiman's not a Scientologist, but ..... (was "Neil Gaiman's Out")

    whoever, we're not going to get hard dox because the celebs don't want us to know that they're in. They're like undercover intelligence agents.

    So with these celebs in the gray zone we have to shift our standard from, "they're not in until they say so," to "they're in until they say otherwise." That's the only way to force some clarity.
  23. Anonymous Member

    Re: Neil Gaiman's not a Scientologist, but ..... (was "Neil Gaiman's Out")

    They won't let Gaiman bang a non-Scientologist. Very out 2D.
  24. Anonymous Member

    Re: Neil Gaiman's not a Scientologist, but ..... (was "Neil Gaiman's Out")

    I only banged non-Scientologists when I was on staff. No one ever complained, especially not those being banged. (Note: I did not use the Fowler method, which probably accounts for the recipients' happiness.)
  25. Anonymous Member

    Re: Neil Gaiman's not a Scientologist, but ..... (was "Neil Gaiman's Out")

    Did you marry a non-Scientologist?
  26. Anonymous Member

    Re: Neil Gaiman's not a Scientologist, but ..... (was "Neil Gaiman's Out")

    Me again, the poster who knows Amanda...

    This makes the assumption that he has not truly left the cult. Or would this even apply to ex-Scientologists?

    I want to say again that she would have approximately zero chance of ever getting involved on her own. One, not enough time. (She hustled like mad with the Dresden Dolls.) Two, not enough money. (The record company has made her work and work to pay off her debt to them as per their contract. She wants out of it and for them to break the contract.) Three, her independent and sharp-witted nature. Very hard to pull anything off on her. Fourth, I can't think of anyone in our mutual circle of friends who wouldn't have tried to dissuade.

    So if she joined, she must have joined recently, after they got to know each other. So recently. If he still belonged to the Church and about that I have no idea whatsoever.

    Even when you love someone, though, it doesn't make you totally stupid.

    This thread seems more like celebrity gossip more than anything, though. In my case an excuse to namedrop and also vent.
  27. Anonymous Member

    Re: Neil Gaiman's not a Scientologist, but ..... (was "Neil Gaiman's Out")

    No, but neither has Neil. Yet.
  28. Re: Neil Gaiman's not a Scientologist, but ..... (was "Neil Gaiman's Out")

    Scientologists are getting more and deft at keeping their celebrities covert. Will Smith is a case in point, he claims in public that he is not a Scientologist, yet he funds a Scientology school and when the head of that school takes issue with L.Ron Hubbard's study tech, she's fired and replaced by a Scientologist. Smith has also donated continually to Scientology.

    Will Smith Scientology Donations $122,500

    The studios lowered the boom on Smith and told him not to mix up their publicity campaign for Hancock with Scientology.

    As I've pointed out before, Tom Cruise only appeared in Scientology records once in 1989, with his birth name Mapother and then only reappears on lists in 2006.

    Tom Mapother - Scientology Service Completions

    Then again in 2006

    http://www.truthaboutscientology.com/stats/by-name/t/tom-cruise.html

    A fairgame declare was made on the journalist who outed Cruise.

    Cruise lost his studio deal after the couch jumping incident and an avalanche of bad publicity connecting him to Scientology.

    This is evidence that Scientology has a history of keeping member's identities covert and I agree that unless Scientologists come out against the cult, they must be counted as members. And anyone who funds the cult is a serious problem.

    Scientologists marry other Scientologists and they certainly wouldn't marry Gaiman and his chunk of the G&G Vitamin empire off to a WOG. There are no docs on Palmer right now, infact there seems to be zero information about her past.

    But famous Scientologists like Beck are married off to other Scientologists and according to my sources, are matched up through stats and a personality test.

    A warning to "friends" of Palmer... plenty of Gaiman's friends were surprised by his past too, since he never shared that information. They were even more surprised by the payments. Scientologists don't need to confide in Wogs, if you are a friend of Palmer and she is either a long time Scientologist or a recent convert, she won't necessarily tell you. The documents on Gaiman exist because he was the son of David Gaiman and he has made regular donations.

    Dana Goodyear's fluff piece about Scientology is hardly an investigation or solid journalism. Goodyear must be pretty friendly with Scientology to be invited into the celebrity center and be allowed ACCESS by the Scientologists! Holy crap! How did Goodyear get indside if they didn't know she would write a friendly piece? The celebrity center would shoot people dead if they could... oh, wait. They did shoot somebody dead!

    Man shot at Scientology site had made threats - Los Angeles Times

    But Dana Goodyear waltzes in??? Yeah, right. I don't mean to be cynical, but you are fucking kidding me.

    http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2008/01/14/080114fa_fact_goodyear

    Gaiman denies being a member of Scientology, despite the fact that he funds Scientology and has been named a Patron of Scientology and a Founding Patron of Scientology, having donated more than $100,000.00 to the cult. But Goodyear never broaches this subject, her version of hard journalism is to note that his Wikpedia page is often "changed" as he tries to have any reference to Scientology white washed. Neil Gaiman then goes on to (unbelievably) defend Scientology, claiming the cult that has driven people over and over to despair and suicide is being "persecuted." (Gaiman's words...) Neil Gaiman is a Scientologist and so is Will Smith, hiding their status in the cult while reaping the benefits.

    Gaiman is a propagandist. Gaiman patrols the web and has created his own buzz through goofy articles distributed through free article services. Gaiman's relationship with Palmer is hardly spontaneous. The relationship is cynical and planned with photo ops, posters and self published books.

    Because Scientologists don't let reporters in the celebrity center unless they can control the dialogue...

    I believe the New Yorker article is a plant with a friend of Scientology, Dana Goodyear, who is helping the Scientologists try and control the dialogue about Gaiman by providing him with a forum.

    Because Scientologists do not marry non Scientologists or associate with family members who are non Scientologists....

    I believe Amanda Palmer is a Scientologist.

    Because Mark Headly says Gaiman was reinstated, because there is a money trail, because Gaiman has a history of lying, because you can't get out of Scientology without blowing for good...

    I believe that Gaiman never left the cult.

    Because Gaiman's father David Gaiman is dead and his sister Claire Edwards is head of recruiting....

    I believe Claire Edwards calls the shots for the Gaiman clan.

    Scientologists are relentless in their pursuit of power and control, but they aren't stupid and we should not underestimate their ability to adapt to the pressure Anonymous is creating.

    Oh yeah, and Herro, no one gives a shit about celebrities. You're talking to Freedom Fighters who are sacrificing their time and money to fight an organization that is destroying lives and enslaving people. Understanding the cult's methods and seeing through their incredible wall of bullshit and propaganda is mandatory, otherwise we end up supporting assholes who are perpetuating the abomination that is Scientology.
  29. Re: Neil Gaiman's not a Scientologist, but ..... (was "Neil Gaiman's Out")

    Fucking too right!
  30. Anonymous Member

    Re: Neil Gaiman's not a Scientologist, but ..... (was "Neil Gaiman's Out")

    Klaatu, what you say echos what I've heard elsewhere --e.g., the careful casting call for the part now played by Katie Holmes. And think of Mimi Rodgers. How many big game has she pulled in with her vagina?

    The stalking, collecting, and managing of celebrities is very important to Scientology.

    Given the above, I would guess that there was a Scientologist in Amanda's life for several months or even years before she met Gaiman. Guy-who-knows-her, any guesses about that?
  31. Vir Member

    Re: Neil Gaiman's not a Scientologist, but ..... (was "Neil Gaiman's Out")

    My guess is that she might not have been a Scientologist before, but that she could have a Scientology handler. The Norwegian celebrity "Hank von Helvete" from Turbonegro, for example, was recruited into Narconon and CCHR through his Scientologist manager Trygve Haug.
  32. chrisanon Member

    Re: Neil Gaiman's not a Scientologist, but ..... (was "Neil Gaiman's Out")

    I have some really bad news for you. Anyone, ANYONE, can be conned. A cult is just a version of a long con, with thought-reform and mind control thrown in.

    Anyone can be conned, because as human beings, we all have vulnerabilities. It's the human condition. A con artist's job is to spot those vulnerabilities and capitalize on them. Hubbard was a con man.

    Nothing you said about her means she wouldn't be involved in a cult. She sounds ambitious, healthy, hard-working and intelligent, and that's what cults are looking for. And the money isn't an issue in the introductory levels, they're cheap. The prices don't go up until you're hooked. And now, Gaiman might well pay.

    It's like the way heroin dealers move into an area and give away the heroin. It's free! Then they charge the people who come back. Because those people are hooked. They'll pay whatever it takes.

    If you've heard about the James Arthur Ray Sweat Lodge disaster, you'll see what I mean. Those were some very intelligent, educated, largely upper class people, and Ray had them all so mind controlled that they overrode their bodies powerful natural instincts for air!

    3 people died. 20 were injured. Many of the victim's families were astounded to find out what their relatives were involved in, because "they would never be involved in something like that." But they were involved, and now they're dead or injured.

    If you're interested, and you might not be because it doesn't sound like you're close with Amanda anymore, look on the Rick Ross site and google the James Ray disaster.

    This thread might be celebrity gossip.(Although your statement read more like a defensive slam to me than a genuine insight.) That doesn't mean Amanda isn't involved in CoS. She sounds perfect for them.
  33. whoever Member

    Re: Neil Gaiman's not a Scientologist, but ..... (was "Neil Gaiman's Out")

    I'm aware that celebrities don't want people to know they're in. I saw Beck dodge it for five years before he came out publicly.

    But at the same time, I'm not going to assume someone is in if I don't have pretty good evidence; I'm going to assume they may be in. To me, that is true clarity: knowing I don't know.
  34. Anonymous Member

    Re: Neil Gaiman's not a Scientologist, but ..... (was "Neil Gaiman's Out")

    If we could be certain about the status of celebs actively trying to hide their connection to Scientology, we wouldn't be having this little chat.

    Do you understand how to make decisions without certainty? You must navigate between two types of errors: false positives and false negatives. And you must weigh the cost of making a mistake against the costs associated with reducing mistakes.

    With respect to Neil Gaiman, what's the cost associated with a type I error (false positive, i.e. saying he's a Scientologist when he isn't)?

    Well, if we erroneously call Mr. Gaiman a Scientologist when he isn't, he can correct us if he'd like. Doesn't seem too high a price to me.

    If we erroneously say Mr. Gaiman is out of Scientology, well then he'll continue to give thousands of dollars to a criminal cult without suffering appropriate damage to his reputation. That's too high a price for our cause to bear, I think.
  35. thetanic Member

    Re: Neil Gaiman's not a Scientologist, but ..... (was "Neil Gaiman's Out")

    Agreed. He can say he's out when he fucking wants to.

    (And his little wifey-to-be tooooooo)
  36. Anonymous Member

    Re: Neil Gaiman's not a Scientologist, but ..... (was "Neil Gaiman's Out")

    And I expect more from a Gaiman than a mumbled, "not really into it anymore."

    He's a writer. I think he could handle a brief essay explaining how LRH was full of shit.
  37. Anonymous Member

    Re: Neil Gaiman's not a Scientologist, but ..... (was "Neil Gaiman's Out")

    Gal-who-knows-her here...

    This really does strike me as fruitless speculation. I can't imagine anyone in our mutual social scene (in Boston, where I live) as having anything to do with Scientology. Picture the classical smart and cynical wiseass artist/musician and you have the idea. I certainly haven't heard of anyone in our social circle as having any connection to the Church of Scientology.

    For the record, she met Mr. Gaiman (according to his blog) via a mutual friend named Jason Webley, who has performed with her at least once several years ago. I don't Jason Webley at all.

    When I met her she genuinely seemed happier than I have eve seen her so, yeah, she has fallen in love.
  38. Anonymous Member

    Re: Neil Gaiman's not a Scientologist, but ..... (was "Neil Gaiman's Out")

    I wish, but the Church doesn't mind using blackmail. He'd suffer disconnection, though. Optionally, they'd also air every secret he told his auditors.
  39. Anonymous Member

    Re: Neil Gaiman's not a Scientologist, but ..... (was "Neil Gaiman's Out")

    And this is why we must take the cult down ASAP. This is why, if Gaiman can help us, he has a moral duty to do so.

    He's a smart man. I'm sure he can think of some way to covertly lend a hand. The sooner the monster is down, the sooner he can be free.
  40. Anonymous Member

    Re: Neil Gaiman's not a Scientologist, but ..... (was "Neil Gaiman's Out")

    My money is on Michael Pope.

    Understanding the hidden links between entities within a cult /secret society /crime syndicate is what intelligence agents do. It's Intelligence 101.

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