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Neil Gaiman's not a Scientologist, but ..... (was "Neil Gaiman's Out")

Discussion in 'Celebrity News' started by Anonymous, Jan 20, 2010.

  1. Anonymous Member

    Re: Neil Gaiman's not a Scientologist, but ..... (was "Neil Gaiman's Out")

    Let me break this down a bit...

    A few people close to me got involved with the same (Scientology-derived) cult. Though I want to, I would like to break anonymity, but I will maintain it and say that it hurt me a lot when it happened to them.

    While Scientology has very effective thought reform techniques, they first have to catch you.

    True.

    However, Amanda had, in effect, the self-built cult of making herself a success as a musician and a theatre director (a less recognized aspect of her talent). As the Queen Bee of the scene and with the Dresden Dolls Brigade she practically has/had a cult of her own.

    When art and your scenester life provides enough of the psychological recommended diet of vitamins and minerals and when you have a pretty savvy and not at all credulous outlook, parasites like the Church of Scientology have a harder time getting in their claws.

    You've seen the people offering free personality tests and harassing us at protests. Do they tend not to get those people. They want those people, but they tend not to get them.

    Remember, Neil Gaiman got raised in the cult. He didn't "join" it. When William S. Burroughs joined up, he soon got dissatisfied and left.

    She only met him pretty recently.

    Basically, I mean she would have had approximately zero chance of getting involved in Scientology before she met him.

    Apples and oranges, really. Scientologists have their dopey world and New Agers their own dopey world.

    I knew about it. While I don't hang out with her, I do hang out with her friends... well, pretty every time I hang out at all.

    But would she have found them perfect for her?

    While I don't know the deal with her and Mr. Gaiman, prior to his meeting him, most decidedly not.

    -- Girl-Who-Knows
  2. whoever Member

    Re: Neil Gaiman's not a Scientologist, but ..... (was "Neil Gaiman's Out")

    Do you understand the concept of simply telling the truth--saying you don't know something when you don't know it? I have seen people make tons of misstatements about others being Scilons. Not just murky, gray-area folks like Gaiman, but also innocent bystanders.

    And I have seen people deny publicly that they are Scilons (like Rob Thomas) or say they are no longer in (like Jeffrey Tambor), but not everybody sees those statements, and if someone see one of the reports that someone like Thomas or Tambor is in but never see the denials, they will repeat it elsewhere. I am not just theorizing here--I have watched this happen repeatedly over the years. I often encounter supposed "lists of celebrity Scientologists" with incorrect names on them. People who've been wrongly identified can't be everywhere on the net correcting that stuff, and it would be ridiculous for them to constantly issue statements that they are not Scientologists.


    You really have no idea of the ramifications for some people, do you? Or do you simply not care because you think people who have been Scientologists deserve to suffer disconnection and blackmail and smear campaigns while the cult is taken down "ASAP" (no matter that that will likely be years)?
  3. Anonymous Member

    Re: Neil Gaiman's not a Scientologist, but ..... (was "Neil Gaiman's Out")

    Here's how I would do the "list of celebs":

    "Confirmed, practicing Scientologists"
    Tom Cruise
    John Travolta
    etc.

    "Probably still in"
    Neil Gaiman
    Tori Amos
    etc.

    With an explanation of what "probably still in" means.

    I understand the "ramifications for some people." That cost must be weighed against the cost to society if the celebrity is used to sell Scientology to the unwary. This is a cult that kills people and infiltrates our government.

    I think there's a middle ground between denouncing Scientology and doing nothing. We can work with people covertly. They can be useful sources of intelligence.
  4. Re: Neil Gaiman's not a Scientologist, but ..... (was "Neil Gaiman's Out")

    Someone earlier in this thread said that Neo trolls forums like these. Maybe Neo is reading this right now.
  5. Belladonna Member

    Re: Neil Gaiman's not a Scientologist, but ..... (was "Neil Gaiman's Out")

    WNYC - Spinning On Air: New Stuff (January 31, 2010)

    WNYC Radio - Spinning on Air
    Airs Sundays at 8PM EST on 93.9 FM
  6. Anonymous Member

    Re: Neil Gaiman's not a Scientologist, but ..... (was "Neil Gaiman's Out")

    Maybe not if you call him "Neo."

    Neil Gaiman Founding Patron of Scientology
    Neil Gaiman Writers of the Future
    Neil Gaiman Wealden House East Grinstead
    Neil Gaiman Scientology auditor
    Neil Gaiman Scientology case supervisor
    Lizzy Calcioli G & G Foods WISE Human Detoxification Programme
    Claire Edwards Scientology Missions International
    Timothy J. Edwards Wisdom Companies
    Mary McGrath LA Celeb Centre
    Michael Gaiman Greenfields Scientology School
    David Gaiman Operation Snow White
    Amanda Palmer Dresden Dolls
    Amanda Palmer Brian Viglione
    Amanda Palmer Falling for the Wrong Guy Yet Again WTF
  7. Re: Neil Gaiman's not a Scientologist, but ..... (was "Neil Gaiman's Out")

    you could equally criticize random Anonymous members for not doing enough about the cult. "get arrested? take more risks, donate a $1000", etc.

    though he has a bit more karmic debt, if you want to call it, than the average Anonymous member, because he has participated in, at the same time, he stands to lose a lot more than that hypothetical Anonymous member.

    for all we know, he does so already.
  8. Anonymous Member

    Re: Neil Gaiman's not a Scientologist, but ..... (was "Neil Gaiman's Out")

    Ok you have no sense of proportion.

    for all we know, he does so already.[/QUOTE]
    Who is "we"?

    Until I know Mr. Gaiman is somehow helping to take down the CoS, I will continue to use any mention of his name as an opportunity to educate the public about his criminal cult.
  9. Re: Neil Gaiman's not a Scientologist, but ..... (was "Neil Gaiman's Out")


    Poor ole Neo.
  10. Anonymous Member

    Re: Neil Gaiman's not a Scientologist, but ..... (was "Neil Gaiman's Out")

    ^I see wat u did thar.

    Google search results "Amanda Palmer Neil Gaiman Scientology"
  11. Anonymous Member

    Re: Neil Gaiman's not a Scientologist, but ..... (was "Neil Gaiman's Out")

    I know there is probably very little crossover between anon and Tori Amos fangirls, so I'll take a shot at this. It may not be an unbiased opinion but it is extremely well-informed. Ultra tl;dr to follow...

    "Low quality evidence" is understating it a bit - "Magoo-level moonbattery" would be more accuracte. Probably the number one theme in Tori's music is decrying organized religion, and yet she's likely to be a member of an extremely strict and controlling cult? She is very into new-age crap but I kinda don't think Scientology is her bag.

    Source for this? I have literally read every published Tori interview before 1997 (protip: don't give high school students LEXIS-NEXIS) along with most of them since then, and I've never seen such an admission. It's possible she said it to a fan or during a radio interview or something, but I also haven't heard anyone in the fan community mention it.

    Right, just on the edge of Clearwater city limits in Sewall's Point. Oh wait, it's 168 miles away on the opposite side of the state.

    100% untrue. Tori has talked extensively about her pregnancy and she gave birth in Washington D.C. (pg. 176 of the hardback edition, if you want to double check). I also like the claim that it was "probably" a weird silent birth. Very convincing!

    I can't find any source on the baby shower, but the fact that there doesn't seem to be any other connection between Tori and Lisa Marie indicates that it's meaningless in any case. The connection with Eric Rosse is also absurd - Tori hasn't worked with him since 1994.

    The same argument used against Amanda Palmer, as discussed in this thread. It's already a weak point but even more tenuous in this case.

    CAA represents thousands of people and they're obviously not all scilons.

    Anyone could be a scilon... EVEN YOU! Not a shred of evidence here.

    Tori read the Sandman comic when it was first being published, and she gave Neil a demo tape of her first album at a convention. He liked it, so they eventually became friends. They also don't actually collaborate together on anything... Neil writes pieces for Tori's tour books sometimes, and she's written an intro to one of his trade paperbacks. They also reference each other in their work, but I'm not sure how that has anything to do with Scientology.


    So in conclusion, I know it's fun to uncover the vast and sordid Scientology worldwide conspiracy, but maybe ESMB would be a better place for this bullshit.
  12. Re: Neil Gaiman's not a Scientologist, but ..... (was "Neil Gaiman's Out")

    Another thing to take into account is the class system in Scientology. Celebrity or pseudo celebrity Scientologists are treated differently. Beck lied about his status for years, all his Wog associates were convinced he was out until he disconnected from his girlfriend and married into the cult. There are reports of Cruise drifting away or losing his marbles at OTV and then being handled. Gaiman and Palmer probably have a lot of freedom, as long as they continue to pay into the cult.

    Another factor is that Scientology offers a Faustian deal to the ambitious, and Palmer and Gaiman strike me as desperate for fame and power. Scientology offers publicity services, promotion services, accommodations in Hollywood, introductions to the biggest agents in town, meetings with directors, casting agents, producers and record companies, scripts powered through the system via Scientology connections, awards campaigned for and a virtual army of web trolls to type praises and place articles creating artificial buzz.

    This is the major way that Scientology captures D-List celebrities like Gaiman and Palmer. They are perfect marks. It wouldn't take much to corrupt them into promising donations in return for an army of sea org serfs to increase their presence in Hollywood.

    Scientology even buys up blocks of tickets when films come out.

    It's important not to be naive. Know your enemy and understand their behavior patterns. Scientologists lie and hide their status. Will Smith is funding a school that will pull children into the cult, so we can't underestimate how deadly it can be to allow Scientologists their "cover story" that they are not involved.

    Information is still the best weapon. The more Scientologists are exposed, the better.

    And Scientologist defectors like Mark Headley, should be hailed as heroes because it takes brass balls to walk out of Scientology and speak out.
  13. Anonymous Member

  14. Anonymous Member

    Re: Neil Gaiman's not a Scientologist, but ..... (was "Neil Gaiman's Out")

    That would be an unfortunate miscalculation. He is doing well right now. D List celebrities do not get their own stories in the New Yorker.
  15. Anonymous Member

    Re: Neil Gaiman's not a Scientologist, but ..... (was "Neil Gaiman's Out")

    You seem so in love with your theory that I doubt anything will penetrate, but here goes...

    You seem to have envisioned a scenario out of some simplistic biopic or showbiz morality tale.

    Amanda has worked to get she has gotten. (Also, she has the luck and talent, too.)

    First thing I noticed about her (I didn't even hear her music until after I had met her a few times) came down to her personal magnetism, workaholism and drive to succeed. (Not desperation to succeed. I associate desperation with not having what it takes [and on some level often knowing that they have it].) I could give you a point-by-point comparison chart of how she has stacked up against other friends trying to do the same and where she succeeded where they failed.

    Reality doesn't work that way, though. Not even getting at the other facets of her personality, do you think that a crappy musician would have done as well as she has done?

    She only made a Faustian bargain with a major label (after putting out her own records) and then having them saddle her with an unwanted contract. Her conjectural Scientology contacts (and lawyers) have done a remarkably poor job of breaking said contract.

    Every time I think about how connections and influence alone can get you to a place of respect in the biz I think of the untalented son or daughter of a celebrity and/or Scientologist or what-have-you who did not manage to have the connections and will not end up the butt of jokes or just plain obscure. Battlefield Earth got terrible reviews and ended up losing tons of money, did it not?

    .

    Yes, but only the real ones. You have no business smearing innocents.

    (I haven't mentioned Neil Gaiman in the above, by the way, because I know him only from his work and interviews.)

    -- Girl Who Knows
  16. Anonymous Member

    Re: Neil Gaiman's not a Scientologist, but ..... (was "Neil Gaiman's Out")

    I can only say you don't understand Amanda Haven't hung out with her, don't know her as a person. She wouldn't do that kind of thing. Leastways not the Amanda I know.

    Step back a bit and realize that we do still live in the real world, you know the world where you go across the street to buy a carton of milk. We don't live in a HBO drama of nonstop intrigue.

    If you go far enough with this you cross into Scientology looking-glass where everyone plots against you.

    When I give my opinion that you have this at least partly wrong, I tell you from a position of personal knowledge.

    -- Girl Who Knows
  17. Anonymous Member

    Re: Neil Gaiman's not a Scientologist, but ..... (was "Neil Gaiman's Out")

    Since David Gaiman was the head of the Guardian's Office PR Bureau-- that makes me think his children have always been treated better. Scientology class system.

    It didn't seem to work for Arthur and Suzette Hubbard though.
  18. Anonymous Member

  19. Re: Neil Gaiman's not a Scientologist, but ..... (was "Neil Gaiman's Out")

    Hey Anonymous,

    I really appreciate your posts. You are sharp witted and intelligent and many of your comments have been extremely helpful and of course are always well thought out.

    I understand your problem about revealing your identity. I have the same problem. I know many of the players involved in the Gaiman family saga going back to East Grinstead and the early days when Gaiman would shill at conventions for Scientology. I know more than I can safely reveal concerning Gaiman's involvement, but it's deep. And believe me, this isn't paranoia.

    I'll take your word about Palmer, but knowing how ruthless the Gaiman clan is, I know they wouldn't let her inside if she was a Wog.
  20. Relyt Member

    Re: Neil Gaiman's not a Scientologist, but ..... (was "Neil Gaiman's Out")

    I saw Neil Gaiman in a banner ad the other day while looking at webcomics.
  21. Re: Neil Gaiman's not a Scientologist, but ..... (was "Neil Gaiman's Out")

    Pooks just posted a list of the cornerstone Newsletter (circa November 2009)

    $142 million plus given to Super Power Scam - Ex Scientologist Message Board

    Under
    CORNERSTONE CLUB MEMBERS [1315] [$35,000.00]

    You'll find

    Mary & Neil Gaiman

    And as Pooks states:


    This probably reflects the $30,000.00 Neil Gaiman gave to the cult, and an additional $5000.00 to bring him up to Cornerstone Club member. Neil Gaiman is a Scientologist in good standing.
  22. Anonymous Member

    Re: Neil Gaiman's not a Scientologist, but ..... (was "Neil Gaiman's Out")

    Hi!

    Delayed thanks for acknowledging my earlier post and not dismissing it.

    Based on the evidence, we know that he remained in good standing up until November 2009, but the New Yorker article came out in late January 2010.

    -- Girl Who Knows
  23. Anonymous Member

    Re: Neil Gaiman's not a Scientologist, but ..... (was "Neil Gaiman's Out")

    On re-reading... perhaps he left the Church and they did not declare him.

    Before anyone accuses me of bias I will say (again) that I want him to left the Church, which does color my thoughts on this matter.

    -- Girl Who Knows
  24. Anonymous Member

    Re: Neil Gaiman's not a Scientologist, but ..... (was "Neil Gaiman's Out")

    oh no, not him...he is such a brilliant writer. and amanda? i truly can not believe that she is a scilon - never! and I´m not a fan or anything...
  25. Re: Neil Gaiman's not a Scientologist, but ..... (was "Neil Gaiman's Out")

    I follow your posts and have great respect for you.

    I do understand why you want to believe Gaiman.

    Nobody gets in a car with a serial killer because they think he's going to kill them. The serial Killer seems very charming, he reassures his victim and then dispatches them.

    Neil Gaiman was raised a Scientologist by a father and mother who thought it was okay to give the Purification Rundown to Russian children poisoned by radiation. What do you think they did to Neil Gaiman?

    It's hard for people with empathy to comprehend sociopathic personalities because the empathic person projects all sorts of decent qualities onto the sociopath. That is a measure of your humanity, but the price is disillusionment. There are people in this world who lie fluently and live double lives and Gaiman is one. None of this effects him, he would only be annoyed at anyone questioning the way he is presenting himself to the world not whether his false identity has any merit. He has all the symptoms of malignant narcissism instilled by Scientology auditing. As I've said before, there are plenty of assholes in the world who also write well, but better to just read his books from the library and not pay for them since the money is most definitely going to Scientology either through direct contributions or his ex-wife whom he supports.

    Gaiman is playing it both ways, claiming not to be a Scientologist, then funding Scientology on the side in what he thinks is a secret arrangement, to get the celebrity perks and tax deductions and a slice of the G&G Vitamin empire.

    I know I'm cynical, but Gaiman is a shmuck.

    Scientology management doesn't seem to give a shit as long as Gaiman pays and doesn't stray from the pack. Scientology arranged the Dana Goodyear profile since she was allowed into the Celebrity center for her earlier fluff piece and the whole point of that profile was to dismiss those pesky Scientology rumors before Oscar time.

    One more little point. Scientologists do not "blow for good" and have their high-ranking Scientology sisters tell funny little stories to the reporter about how they grew up Jewish AND Scientologists. All of my research and personal experiences are that when Scientologists blow in public, they are disconnected by all other Scientologists including their family members. Therefore, logically, Gaiman is NOT disconnected, but a member is good standing and a clear friend of Scientology since he defends them and states that Scientology is being "persecuted" and he stands with them.

    The whole New Yorker profile is an orchestrated attempt at damage control because Gaiman does not want to be seen as a Scientologist, even though he funds the cult.
  26. Anonymous Member

    Re: Neil Gaiman's not a Scientologist, but ..... (was "Neil Gaiman's Out")

    You make a persuasive argument.

    Yeah, I noticed that last part.

    I do have one disagreement with the rest of the post, though. Where you describe a facade of decency, I think that Scientologists compartmentalize. To my own surprise, I have actually met a few Scientologists who did not come off as repressed or robotic. I would describe as kind and warm people who wouldn't knowingly do harm to anyone. (Also, I would like to know their stories.) As a matter of fact, they at least acknowledged to me that David Miscavige had his critics, even if they wouldn't confirm or deny.

    -- Girl Who Knows
  27. thetanic Member

    Re: Neil Gaiman's not a Scientologist, but ..... (was "Neil Gaiman's Out")

    When I was in, I definitely compartmentalized. I kept all but one of my non-Scn friends.

    The compartmentalization was something my counselor saw when I was getting out, but I pointed out I had come to counseling for a different reason. I didn't get either of those things resolved (nor was I willing to address my attachment to Scn at that point), though I did finally figure out what the deal was on why something was bugging me enough to go to counseling (especially as someone who still considered herself a Scn), but I just figured that out a couple months ago and I've been out for over a decade.

    So -- guess that compartment finally unsealed.

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