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"Obama Warns Against Direct Involvement by U.S. in Iran"

Discussion in 'News And Current Events' started by Oinkertron9000, Jun 16, 2009.

  1. [MODEDIT -- If you are just coming across this thread, feel free to skip it. It is many many pages of two idiots using this forum like their own private chat program to ramble on their e-opinions about foreign policy. That is not the purpose of this site.]



    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/17/us/politics/17prexy.html?ref=us
  2. US Presidents Response to Iranian Protests

    President Obama needs to immediately denounce the treatment of the protesters in Iran if he truly wants US relations with Iran to change. The right to a fair and democratic election is the most sacred of American traditions and has been touted by the American government since our inception, the horrible irony is that our government has never supported this ideal in its foreign policy and has instead a history of blatantly supporting dictators and other oppressive regimes who they think will cow tow to US policy. This is a huge part of the problem with US and Mid east relations. Now is the time to rectify this situation. My heart and my support go out to all those who are fighting for their right to be heard in Iran today. You have the right to a government of your choosing, regardless of whether or not it adheres to what the US government wants or thinks it should be. Fight on! Your are not fighting in vain.
  3. ZackZero Member

    Actually, if we get enough /b/lackup in this matter and get a pressfag to get something out into the media, it might energize further demonstrations against what's been going on in Iran on the part of other groups in the U.S.

    Besides, it might even force Obama's hand.
  4. You're missing the point

    If President Obama publicly denounce the treatment of the protesters in Iran, it's essentially doing the same thing that Bush did with our current engagement in Iraq/Afghanistan. We think we know what the right action is for another country and have acted rashly, in that instance. And we all know where that decision has us now.

    We Americans come from a completely different culture, and if we are to encourage Iran to be a truly Democratic and free country, we can't just do things our way, because we have NO idea. We have to pool our support in other ways that are beneficial to the people of Iran and help them in our prayers and technical support for those with that knowledge.
  5. Ravenmore Member

    Obama is too worried about trying to talk to ahmed to try to get them to stop the nuclear program. Of course he's trying to stay out of this.
  6. Way to stand up for Freedom Obama!

    Ya, whatever you do Obama, don't stand up for freedom! Be a coward, keep your mouth shut and go play Golf. Then you can agree to talk to the Dictator suppressing these Freedom loving people without conditions. Way to go Obama! You are truly The One!
  7. hmm

    You have to understand there is a big disagreement on how the US government can best support pro-democracy movements.

    A lot of people believe that what the previous President Bush tried to do in very aggressively, even militarily praising and promoting Democracy in and around the Middle East backfired or created a lot of enemies. A lot of people are afraid that by issuing a strong statement, it will backfire and only hurt the Iranian people.

    I respect Obama for the decision he made, even if it turns out to be wrong. For the most part I agree with him because I don't think there is anything he can do publicly that would help. But the world is watching. I just hope Obama's considering if there's anything he can do secretly to help, and I hope the rest of us can help out without the President's support.
  8. Playing in the ashes

    Yes, Leftist think the best way to support Freedom movements is to not support them at all and mike nice with the Dictators. Brilliant! Good thing the adults are in charge now! With that kind of logic it won't be long before Rome is burnt to the ground.
  9. Fuck Obama. He is just another tool of the corporations. This is our time. If O and anyone else in govt thinks this is going to stop in Iran, they are mistaken. People are waking up and we have a way to communicate and organize that no one can stop. Iran and other nations such as China are going to see this first as they have it the worst. But this will spread and other corrupt governments will fall and change. In the US we the people are the government. People are remembering that now. In Iran, the people are also the government. And they are also waking up and realizing that fact.

    This is all thanks to the internet, the greatest invention of mankind.
  10. ZackZero Member

    Making nicey-nice with dictators and spending billions of dollars faster than Dubya could write a check hasn't given me much confidence in the President.

    Keep it up, Ira- er, Persians. Fight for your rights, fight for your freedom, and fight for yourselves.
  11. Well, the State Department made Twitter hold off on maintenance to keep communications up for the Iranians during peak protest times. I'd say that's "secretly" helping. It's meddling without messing it up for the people of Iran
  12. Ravenmore Member

    well, the US did send war supplies to allied nations in WW1 and WW2. This doesn't surprise me.
  13. Indeed....

    a very innocent way of looking at the world....
    Where would America be today if not for the assistance of the French! (outright INTERFERENCE according to the Obama definition of things..)

    Don't let Obama be the pied piper to your naivete. Think for yourself!

    And educate yourself....from our very OWN Government's website: http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ho/time/ar/14312.htm
    [snip]
    "Through secret agents, the French Government began to provide clandestine assistance to the United States, much of it channeled through American trader Silas Deane."
    [/snip]

    Question authority... Yes...even the Authority of 'Obiwan' Obama..

  14. soviette Member

    Being overly aggressive won't help, and being passive won't help.

    There isn't much Obama can do, but I'm sure if the situation escalates to a certain level, well. Who knows?

    Regardless of what he decides, there is no point in being upset over it. Historically, when the US has stepped in incorrectly like we did in Afghanistan and Iraq, it's just caused more trouble. More innocents were killed, etc.

    Yet, standing aside isn't really helpful either. I have no resolution, so I can't say much :confused:

  15. Do you really trust our government to be able to pull that off? It's not that I believe no interference is the best help, but I honestly don't trust our government to pull it off. There's no recent evidence from our leaders that we can't just steamroll right in there and get a lot of innocent revolutionaries killed for our incompetence.
  16. here is a thought (i'm sure some of you have had it already):

    with the use of twitter and websites like this iranians have probably realized that the people of america do in fact care (quite deeply in some cases) about the outcome of the election and the resulting protests. maybe that is enough to help relieve some of the anti-western sentiment, even without Obama/the government doing or saying anything
  17. Acting unilaterally will serve no good cause.

    Democratic change must come from within before an external power can lead assistance. Or you get a Vietnam/Iraq.
  18. There you go thinking like a politician.... Like it's only 'worth it' if we 'can pull it off'...

    If the French thought like that....if our forefathers thought like that, fear may very well have kept them from acting.

    Not only is it 'worth it' even if we cannot 'pull it off'....its our responsibility to as a free people to help others who have their freedom restricted by an oppressive, barbarian government.
  19. moreover don't you think that one of the things shown by the social media sites (especially twitter) in the past few days is that despite what both the American government and media say (Americans distrust Iranians/think they are terrorists etc) and what the Iranian gov't and media say (Westerners are the devil who don't care about the people of the Middle East), the citizens of both of these countries and many others care about the welfare of each other? this point is debatable, but it certainly seems worth thinking about
  20. The ARPANET (Advanced Research Projects Agency Network) created by ARPA of the United States Department of Defense during the Cold War, was the world's first operational packet switching network, and the predecessor of the global Internet.
  21. N.A.T.E-IRAN Member

    At this point I feel it is necessary to point out that the French didn't exactly care about the freedom of American Colonists in the 18th Century. What they cared about was pissing off the British and giving them another front for their soldiers to deal with, 'cause they were kinda sorta at war with 'em. For about 116 years or so.
  22. Hullo, brobots.

    I think it bears mentioning that if the American State were to be seen interfering directly at this point, it would play right into Ahmadinejad's hands, since he likes to paint his opponents as saboteurs in the pay of AMURKA/Zionist evildoers. Which might well severely erode support for the pro-Mousavi camp, and possibly make Iranian armed services more inclined to shoot 'em up.
  23. Are you a disgruntled American or an Iranian Freedom Fighter?
  24. What Obama should say

    "Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe, in order to assure the survival and the success of liberty.

    This much we pledgeand more."

    John F Kennedy, Inaugural Speech.

    http://www.bartleby.com/124/pres56.html
  25. This has to be theirs...

    As much as America would love to see a free Iran, the image of America in the Muslim world is still rather weak. And if the Guardian Council and the Supreme Leader can focus their story onto an old and easy target such as "The Great Satan" the seeds will die out.

    All America can do is try to keep the lines of communication (YouTube, Twitter) open. This potentially great thing is only for us to watch and hope for.
  26. Common Sense

    Ahmadinejad has won favor in the past by using the US as a common invasive enemy. This protest is a good place for U.S. citizens to help and show we care by making a direct impact in favor of Iranian protesters, but involvement by the American government will do nothing short of empower the regime.
  27. It probably doesn't matter. But he's right. Our government does not need to get involved. Getting involved is what created the mess over there to begin with. We need to let Iran change their own government. What you can do is spread the word about their plight. Help get information out. Go to twitter and retweet feeds.

    http://search.twitter.com/search?q=#gr88

    http://search.twitter.com/search?q=#iranelection

    Those are the two biggest feeds right now. You'll figure out soon enough what to retweet and what not to retweet.
  28. whatever he is he is absolutely correct. I am an Iranian and every time the U.S. has made a statement about some even in Iran it always became a tool for the government to justify their actions against the people by labeling the people's movement as a "foreign instigation" or "anti-iranian" movement. This interference of the U.S. made ahmadinejad stronger during his 4 years of presidency.
  29. My guess is American since that tends to be common among a lot of us. Either way he's right though. Supporting the Iranian's Right to free elections is good and all, but follow Obama's lead and stay out of it physically. Getting involved outside of moral support would just cause trouble for both countries.
  30. Honestly, if our government now had everyone's best interest in mind, or a mindset more along the lines of the French back in the day, then yes I'd be the first to say that we should get directly involved.

    While you may think our "responsibility" is to be the world's big brother and break up the fights of other countries, has it never occurred to you that they may not want us to fight their fight for them? Again I bring up Iraq, and as another person mentioned Vietnam.

    Again, most of us are scratching our heads trying to figure out what would be the best way to intercede, but I think that unless they specifically ask us for help in this revolution our job is to watch, wait, and prepare to jump in if they want us.
  31. We definitely need to stay out of this. Any play by an outside power will only cause people to rally against a common enemy. Though we really don't have to worry about that, our empty suit of a president doesn't have the balls to do anything. I regret voting for that clown. Good luck to you in Iran, though remember, even free elections have consequences, of which America is going to have to deal with for the next 4 years.
  32. I'd like to point out that the Vietnamese definitely did want our help, and were appalled when we just left. Vietnam is a huge shame to the USA, not because we went in, but because WE DIDNT FINISH, and our tyrannical people at home were undermining our soldier's efforts and sacrifices.

    Iraq is a more complicated situation. We were wanted by many, hated by a few. The few got all the news coverage. Now that the war is drawing out, they're getting tired of us, but where would they be if we had just left? In a much worse position than having "annoying US soldiers" there to protect them.
  33. Nihad Subasic Member

    Politics are a complex thing, you have to be a psychic to be good at them. Stepping in would be seen as trespassing on a very fragile situation. Official note that a country steps in with anther countries inner workings could be fatal to the situation. On the internet we fight on a very large front, from all around the world, 24/7, without officially being the Authority figures called the politicians, due to the misunderstanding of others.
  34. sina12345 Member

    Maybe physically keeping them out, but supporting the protests and putting pressure on Iran via the Humane right activists or the UN can help a lot. Although if we get too much foreign aid, and we succeed, we will always be criticized as the government who got into power because of the West.

    What everyone can do right now is to spread the information, and learn about what is going on, so things like this never repeat again. That is all I can think of what us not in Iran can do. (Well that and demonstrating at rallys and protests).
  35. A mouse response in reverse order. Hi guys.

    Huh, good point, I think that the internet is becoming a larger and larger force in geopolitics, and therefore politicians fear it and try to suppress it-- which only makes it stronger. This has been proven time and time again. Two words on this front, and two alone- the Reformation.

    And actually, at this point, I think Iran prolly wants to piss the US enough that they can say that we're the bad guys and reunify the country. Declare some sort of psuedo war and justify martial law? Conscript the fine young men who are marching against them for a National Emergency? It's what I would do.

    To avoid too much TL;DR, I'll just say this: Afghanistan, 1980s. It may not have been the best thing to do at the time, and it sure as hell didn't turn out as well as we could have hoped, but it was covert. And useful. (to an extent)
  36. I'm sorry I didn't mean to imply that the Vietnamese didn't want our help. My point is, for our track record, when was the last time we meddled, and we got it right? In Vietnam we ditched them, and Iraq is indeed a very complicated matter, but our reasoning for leaving the former and jumping in for the latter has never been less than hasty and messy.
  37. The people of Iran will be suspicious if it can easily be tied to a US-backed effort. Getting involved would weaken, not strengthen, what's happening.
  38. I think the US and Iran as governments get along with each better than we might, so I think so.
  39. from Iran

    Quting one of my friends in Iran whom I spoke to today: "Obama is doing the right thing! Everyone here agrees, if he speak out at all they will link him to Moussavi and all will be lost! We don't want the US involved, not yet."
    The world is watching you Iran! We support your opposition to injustice and hear your cry for true democracy! Don't give up!!!!!

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