One of Scientology's most vulnerable points that they don't want you to realize

One of Scientology's most vulnerable points that they don't want you to realize

Warning: this post contains God talk - bear with me, even if you are an athiest.

Also it's tl;dr - BUT if you make it to the end and talk about it, I think we will all have one hell of a powerful weapon against the CO$.


As we all know, scientology wraps itself in the mantle of being a "religion" as a way to protect itself and get tax breaks.

Now let's look at the world's great faiths, especially Christianity. If you are a Christian, who do you turn to in your hour of need? Christ. You bow your own humble human ego down to this greater power of the Son of God. As a christian, you bow down before the cross and look towards Jesus as your savior. They lay their hands upon and read the bible and for Catholics, rosary beads as a way towards greater wisdom.

Jewish people pray and sing and place their faith in Yahweh and "g-d" (insert better description of Judaism here, since I am not jewish) and reach their hands towards the sacred word of God as embodies in the Torah.

Muslims pray 5 times a day to Allah, humbling themselves before that greater power, and find faith in what He has to say. reach their hands towards the sacred word of God as embodies in the Koran.

Now... back to the Christians, especially the ultra-conservative ones for a minute. What do they rail about the most? Those people who they see as "godless". Those who put their faith in secular things are as bad as those who worship the devil. Those people must be defeated in the name of Christ as an imperative mission. If it is "not of god" it is a threat to everyone who loves God.

Here's the ultimate point: Scientologists do not have a God. They look to something that is not of God, something they call "the tech" as their sacred text, which was written by a science fiction author, not a man of God. When they need to "pray" to a "higher power", they lay their hands on a MACHINE. The e-meter.

These are people who worship words that are NOT of any sacred God (otherwise known as "the tech"). These are people who don't even HAVE a God, and they call what they have a "religion". These are people who DARE take what belongs to God, Jesus, Allah, etc. (i.e. faith and religion) and instead corrupt it into worshipping the words of a GODLESS SCI-FI AUTHOR - AND THEY PRAY TO A MACHINE!

Look at it now from the eyes of a devout Christian. A devout Muslim, now looking at Scientology from a true religion point of view. You see people who claim to be religious, yet have no God. You see these people who pray to a machine. Nothing in Danetics asks you to surrender your will to Christ, or Allah or Yahweh - and the text was NOT written by anyone resembling a man of God. Scientologists don't even hold worship services that look up towards any greater God. If it is no God that tries to call itself God, then what is it?

What happens when you ask a Scientologist: "If Scientology a religion, what God do YOU worship?"

You see where I am going with this?

Jesus himself raged against the moneychangers in the temple. Who is more guilty of being THE modern moneychangers, corrupting the temple known as "faith" than the "church" of Scientology?

Imagine the fire upon which true Christian believers preach and rage against the godless. Now.... imagine if all conservative Christians understood the facts, that the one true god of the scientologists involves the central worship of a machine. The scilons have no defense!

Best yet... what happens - from a religious point of view - if you come from a godless point of view? Your corrupt "faith" gets into sick things that only could come from the Devil! Disconnection. Fair Game tactics. Doing sick things to kids. Holding people as real prisoners in your "temple". Arranging suicides. If you are godless and you pray to a machine... THINK about it.

And THESE people, the Scientologists who are GODLESS - DARE try to align themselves as "people of faith" just like the true People of God, of Christ, of Allah?

What happens when just the conservative christians, for instance, come to understand THIS? :woot:

I believe with some great research, these rough ideas could be turned into some delicious copypasta.

I hereby ask that someone who knows a LOT more about theology take this from here. :smile:

Hope it's useful...

Re: One of Scientology's most vulnerable points that they don't want you to realize

.

Re: One of Scientology's most vulnerable points that they don't want you to realize

This is just another angle on the "working with Christians" theme, really, isn't it?


Buddhists don't pray to God either, btw.

Re: One of Scientology's most vulnerable points that they don't want you to realize

Heh... they believe YOU as an individual have a spirit... but yet again, no real God for that individual spirit to pray to, to come home to?

Man, they just hand that "godless" footbullet to us on a platter, don't they? :wink:

Re: One of Scientology's most vulnerable points that they don't want you to realize

IANAT (I am not a theologian), but I think that your argument is not without merit. I can imagine that scientology might mention buddhism, for instance, as a better example of what they are.

Moreover, scientology is good at selling the point that it is compatible with any religion (proving, IMHO, that it is not a religion per se).

Knowing that scientology influence some important christian groups in the US (look at Prof. Kent's article on the topic), we could try to develop some ways to break this alliance.

Re: One of Scientology's most vulnerable points that they don't want you to realize

Yup... but Buddhists don't pray to a machine. :wink:

Re: One of Scientology's most vulnerable points that they don't want you to realize

Bad Idea is bad

Re: One of Scientology's most vulnerable points that they don't want you to realize

I see your point, it's valid, its real. Need to do more research on the Buddha, though before I can comment much more. On another note, I don't see why someone who has no beliefs in a God would have a problem using the angle to further our ultimate goal. We can't be closed off to appealing to a world who for the most part DOES believe that there is a God of some kind. Approach the topic carefully and from the right perspective and we win, let emotions get in the way of using valid points we LOSE

Re: One of Scientology's most vulnerable points that they don't want you to realize

Fail. Unitarian-Universalists and Ethical Culture are other legitimate examples of non-theistic religions. Texas has tried to take away both groups' tax-exempt status. Do we want to encourage this?

Re: One of Scientology's most vulnerable points that they don't want you to realize

Because it's continuing the idea that not having a god in your life is a bad thing and somehow makes you an immoral person, which is something that I as an atheist get very very sick of hearing. When you get down to brass tacks, no religion has any more proof of being right than any other, and I refuse to spread the idea that being godly somehow makes you better than someone who isn't (e.g. myself, Scilons, agnostics, whatever).

You *really* want Robertson and co in on this? They are walking, intolerant, reprehensible footbullets who would destroy our public image. This is about human rights abuse, free speech, and the right to practice religion without constraint. It's not to be turned into a crusade for the agendas of people like that.

Do it if you want - write letters to preachers or whatever - but to me the ends do not justify the means and drag us way off target.

Re: One of Scientology's most vulnerable points that they don't want you to realize

I see your point.

Then again, the idea of seeing Scilons and the Robertson crowd going at each other in the theological equivalent of a cage match is worth a LOT of popcorn! :rofl:

Re: One of Scientology's most vulnerable points that they don't want you to realize

short answer: YES

long answer: anyone who is influential with large masses of people bashing the Co$ is a GOOD thing, take your bigoted view of christfags and hide it in your neckbeard for a while.
you don't want to contact those people ...then don't..telling other people who NOT to contact is stupid and gay.
don't turn this into a religious debate, this thread is about opening up yet ANOTHER front in the war against the Co$.

Re: One of Scientology's most vulnerable points that they don't want you to realize

That would be epic. I would pay to watch that

Re: One of Scientology's most vulnerable points that they don't want you to realize

It isn't another front of the war. This idea is about educating religious people about CoS, why it isn't a religion and why they should be worried about it. We've discussed this before, we've said if you like the idea then do it, before. It's being done, afaik.

I don't think you need more info about theology to do this. You go to your friendly neighbourhood firebrand preacher and tell them what's in the OP.

Re: One of Scientology's most vulnerable points that they don't want you to realize

WTF? I thought the UUists had a God... of some sort, and that's about all they agreed on.

Anyway, "real" religions, even the non-theistic ones, believe in something higher than the self. Be it Nirvana or objective reality or whatever, they agree that the universe doesn't revolve around the individual. Scientology, on the other hand, calls the person, the thetan, the most powerful being in existence -- i.e. God. It's a cult of ego, and all "real" religions agree that that's a bit of a shady doctrine to have.

Re: One of Scientology's most vulnerable points that they don't want you to realize

Neither do Taoists. And there are a few more religions without a God or Gods I can think of, but I don't remember their names.

A religion is a means of dealing with supernatural forces, not a series of protocols people use to communicate with deities. Many include the worshipping of deities as part of their religion, but it's no means required for a religion to operate.

Re: One of Scientology's most vulnerable points that they don't want you to realize

Bingo. Scientology believes the SELF is God. That's the key.

Re: One of Scientology's most vulnerable points that they don't want you to realize

Pretty much like Satanism?

Re: One of Scientology's most vulnerable points that they don't want you to realize

if you google "scientology occult" you'll see that bow has already been drawn.

let those who want to find the bogeyman of christianity and islam, find him in $cientology if they wish, it serves the purpose and is all good.

i am infact surprised islam, hasnt made noise yet about the new american "religion" that is so obviously a front end for satan, the money aspect the false "faith". all the "signs" are there.....

if thats the "framework" that these demographics use to define scientology as a bad thing im all for it

Re: One of Scientology's most vulnerable points that they don't want you to realize

Not quite. LaVey's Satanism doesn't ascribe supernatural powers to the self. The whole "you're your own god" thing is only meant to reinforce that you shouldn't worship any outside entity and that you should be your first priority. It's a lot like Objectivism, actually. (This thread is now about whether Ayn Rand was a Satanist. :wink

Re: One of Scientology's most vulnerable points that they don't want you to realize

Hubbard could only be as powerful as the supplicants he created. Hubbard wanted to be the Supreme Being over all Clears and OTs.

Re: One of Scientology's most vulnerable points that they don't want you to realize

Um... I *said* "do it if you want". I haven't told anyone not to do what they want. How about you stop telling me what I can and can't do, m'kay? I was just addressing the comment that someone couldn't see how this could be offensive to a nonbeliever. An influential person bashing the Co$ who is also widely hated and considering insane (e.g. Robertson) is not a good person to have onside IMHO because it makes us nuts by association.

Not worth getting into. Zip.

Re: One of Scientology's most vulnerable points that they don't want you to realize

Yeah, great idea. Lets just incite a little more religious hatred in the world.
Religion should not EVER be an issue that Anonymous fights for or against.

Inform the Major world religions YES. Allow them to come to their own conclusions from the info we give them YES. Actively recruit, wind up and let loose NOOOOOO!

The move PR wise in most of the major sects of the major religions is towards religious tolerance...INCLUDING ISLAM.

Re: One of Scientology's most vulnerable points that they don't want you to realize

Just a note.

Politics are highly flammable, this isn't a board that covers left/right/up/down/whatever politics. There are plenty of messageboards around that covers any major or minor part of political debate, I advise taking political debate there as this place is not dedicated to that.

If anon was politically oriented a large portion of anon would be alienated.


TL;DR:
You want to hate on this or that side of the political spectre? go do it somewhere else.

Re: One of Scientology's most vulnerable points that they don't want you to realize

imho,
Far better to reveal Scientology as a Self-improvement program masqurading as a religion to sell more <insert item here> and doesn't efraid of anything

Re: One of Scientology's most vulnerable points that they don't want you to realize

I am a lay-preacher-anon...
Scientology is a faggotry self-improvement business turned fascists mafia "religion"

Re: One of Scientology's most vulnerable points that they don't want you to realize

If Fred Phelps wants to go to war against the Scientologists then bring it on. I sharen't be sharing the pavement with him plus the man is a vile hideous sick excuse for a human being but he doesn't charge you $250k to find out that God hates fags (I KNOW HE'S A CRACKPOT, my god loves everyone regardless of where you choose to put your genitalia), which puts him one rung up the food chain from Miscaviage and LRH.

The enemy of my enemy is my friend, Anons would do well to remember it....

Re: One of Scientology's most vulnerable points that they don't want you to realize

L Ron ADORED Crowley, who was quite the sinister satanist....described himself as the Beast 666.

Also, there are plenty of different spokespeople other than Robertson who may be interested in this issue.

Re: One of Scientology's most vulnerable points that they don't want you to realize

Ok. Im no jesus freak nor jewish, but I did take a class on World Religions not too long ago so I am going to add my two cents if needed

The whole topic of Christianity is that it spreads the word of Love. Catholicism is a sect of Christianity.

Judaism's primary focus is that the people of Jewish faith have a Covenant with God. Their belief, as with Christianity and Islam, is that there is only one god. If the Jewish people do more good things that favor God, then God should also do things that favor them, if the opposite then god would punish them.

the ethics and morality of Islam directs each follower to live thier life in such a manner that it appeals god.

Again, different sects of Christianity have similar or more "liberal" views about how much degree the people are viewed as

Here is one thing. Buddhism is a non-theistic religion. Buddhism teaches that to end one's personal suffering, one must stop creating it. The thing about Buddhism is that it was also created by a single person. The "Buddha" or Siddhartha Guatama was a rich Hindu boy that lived lavishly until he saw the four sights of old age, sickness, death, and seeking eternal pleasure. During this time he was still a practicing Brahmanic Hindu, up until his Enlightenment where he found the way to end suffering...and he didn't charge people money.

Then the OTIII they tell you that Christ was an illusion. Shit listening to SLAYER can tell you that but no metal heads take it seriously.

I see your point, but the Scifags try to pull the whole "Spirituality" card. But I am sure a practicing Buddhist can give better advice about spirituality. To attract the attention of most bible belt communites, tell them that Scientology was founded by a person who was involved with the Occult....just like Hitler.

Re: One of Scientology's most vulnerable points that they don't want you to realize

Yeah that's a sect of Buddhism...put Daoism in there too.

Re: One of Scientology's most vulnerable points that they don't want you to realize

allegedly, LRH identified himself as the next Buddha, Matreya. I say allegedly because I don't feel obligated to look up the reference. he said it, I think, in OT8, the authenticity of which I think Anons here have questioned. and in some poetry written by him as quoted in one of the unauthorized biographies.

Re: One of Scientology's most vulnerable points that they don't want you to realize

true enough. I hope we can not get into those kind of smear tactics and borderline misinformation. though a lot occultists tend towards the pathetic, they don't tend to hurt anybody any more than any other group of group of people.

besides which, when pressed, the Church has a ready answer to this one. according to them, LRH went undercover, you see. for the FBI or something.

Re: One of Scientology's most vulnerable points that they don't want you to realize

It's Satanism, you are a Thetan, a Thetan has ultimate power, you can become god with enough $£$£$£$£

Re: One of Scientology's most vulnerable points that they don't want you to realize

Crowley believed in a religious philosophy of his own making called Thelema. I won't attempt to summarize the ideas behind Thelema other than to say that according to it, the old Aeon exemplified by the worship of old male gods (that included christianity, judaism and islam) had ended in 1904 and that the next Aeon had started in which those religions would end.

by the way, Crowley did not adore LRH back. he sent a letter to Parsons warning him that LRH wanted to steal Parsons' money and mosey in on his girlfriend. both of which LRH did.

Re: One of Scientology's most vulnerable points that they don't want you to realize

not in my opinion.

past allies in the mad pride movement (which says, at very least, that psychiatry needs heavy reform) have justified tolerating the CCHR on those grounds. apart from the moral aspects, it will negatively affect Anonymous' PR efforts.

Re: One of Scientology's most vulnerable points that they don't want you to realize

Don't Mormons believe this too? Or more accurately that one can be elevated to that plane if the teachings are followed? Correct me if I'm wrong...

Re: One of Scientology's most vulnerable points that they don't want you to realize

as a former catholic, i may have been convinced that Scientology was that "antichrist false religion" i was warned about. as an agnostic who studies religions and their texts, I find you misguided in your definition of "religion". satanists do not worship a deity, neither do atheists and agnostics (recognized religious preferences on the college applications) and as someone mentioned, buddhism and unitarianism focus more on peace and humanity than any real "god". Not all religions look without, some look within.

This will work with narrowminded individuals, so if you want to feed them a line to get them hooked, then do it. Tell Al Sharpton about all the "nice" things Hubbard said about blacks while you're at it. Tell the LBGT about all the anti-homosexual garbage he says. I think we can use all the help we can get, but I'm not going to hang out with them for coffee when the church falls. That's all I'm saying.

Re: One of Scientology's most vulnerable points that they don't want you to realize

Don't get me wrong, it would be totally hilarious for the Phelps clan and the CoS to mix it up, but I think this is a bad idea.

The #1 main way the CoS responds to critics is by calling them "extremist hate groups", "anti-religious bigots", etc. who traffic in "hate speech" directed at new and unfamiliar religions.

Now, say what you will about whether the Phelpses have the right to say what they say and do what they do, they're a pretty clear case of an extremist hate group. So it plays right into the CoS narrative of a poor little new religion getting picked on by extremist hate groups.

That might generate sympathy for the CoS. And right now, one of our advantages is that (I think) no one has any specific sympathy for the CoS. The most sympathy you'll find out there is from dippy types who don't think any religion should ever be criticized. But as soon as the Phelpses get involved, now other, more normal and reasonable people start feeling bad for the CoS.

Re: One of Scientology's most vulnerable points that they don't want you to realize

What Christians Need to Know about Scientology

Am I reading this wrong, or does it seem like LRH WANTED to be the anti christ?

No doubt you are familiar with the Revelations section of the Bible where various events are predicted. Also mentioned is a brief period of time in which the arch-enemy of Christ, referred to as the anti-Christ, will reign and his opinions will have sway ... this anti-Christ represents the forces of Lucifer (literally, the "light-bearer" or "light-bringer"), Lucifer being a mythical representation of the forces of enlightenment.... My mission could be said to fulfill the Biblical promise represented by this brief anti-Christ period.

-- L. Ron Hubbard, Student Briefing, OT VIII Series I

Re: One of Scientology's most vulnerable points that they don't want you to realize

Truth.

It's an idea to speak to the more... uh... outgoing religious heads. Those likely to be intolerant of threats to their religion. Christian fundamentalists come to mind. That will alienate a fair whack of the southern USA to the cult almost instantly. Ditto with stirring up the GLBT and black communities with Hubbards anti-homosexual and racist ravings.

However, although it's an idea, which will get more people crusading against Scientology, it might not be good in the long run. D: