Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by droW kcaB, Dec 28, 2011.
Ruin what stuff?
tyvm for your splendid contribution then.
Tor, VPNs and other technologic stuff won't help the stupid.
Presumably you were not, like Athena, born fully formed from the forehead of Zeus. Undoubtedly you must have had to learn things yourself, somewhere along the way.
How nice would it be if way down in that cinder of a dragon heart, you could find the kindness to give others the benefit of your learnings rather than your vitriol?
As far as I know my father ain't into seducing women as a bull.
Everyone can teach themselfs, if they really want to.
Just think which pieces of the puzzle you leave behind, and which you keep close.
And whoever needs help in thinking 'normal' is welcomed in my pm box since like a year now.
Just don't come and whine about technology, as I won't respond.
Give it a rest, Dragon. You made your point.
Sounds really good, but all this Firefox onion techy talk is very confusing to this old gal.
I agree Dragon but for what reason would someone want to teach themselves, yes they COULD perhaps, but they don't always WANT to
The OP in this thread explains some of it.
TOR (acronym for The Onion Router) is a tool for encrypting and anonymizing internet traffic from your computer to the net at large.
It works as a proxy, so that when you connect to (for example) web sites, they cannot identify who you are or where you are coming from. It also encrypts data sent and received, so that someone snooping in on the connection somewhere in between, would not be able to see what you are doing; it protects your privacy doubly.
It's (reasonably) easy to set up and use, if you use a nice bundled installer like the one muldrake referred to:
if you pointed your web browser to http://www.scientology.clam (with .com instead of .clam!) normally,
CoS would know your IP address, and that you were referred to them from WhyWeProtest.net.
Which if you were a recognized SP, could be enough to give their OSA team a leg up on finding where you live and bothering you there.
If you were running TOR and browsed to that site, all that CoS would see is that some random person in.... germany, or brasil, or singapore, or UK or even Alaska was visiting them. It would do them no good at all, and if they weren't paying attention they might not even realize you were proxying.
Downsides: some sites don't work well with TOR. Browsing WWP works, but logging in and posting is more difficult.
Also, using TOR makes the net connection work much slower, because data is being sent all around the world before it ends up at it's destination.
Also, it's not a perfect solution. As Dragon says, using TOR incorrectly may mean that your privacy and anonymity isn't much protected at all.
If you're trying to do something stupid and illegal, TOR probably won't protect you.
If you're a low-profile Suppressive lurker from east Siberia, and haven't and don't give Scientology a reason to go after you, you may not NEED something like TOR. Tor probably won't protect you from law enforcement or the US Government, because they are pretty good at computer.
If you are a Chinese or Persian dissident, using TOR might hide the fact that you're browsing "forbidden" sites, but could be dangerous in other ways.
Ok..but wouldn't using Firefoxes "Always use Private Browsing Mode" work just as well?
^ "no" is correct.
FF's "private browsing" protects you from other people who might have access to your computer checking out your history and seeing that you've been looking at porn.
TOR and other anonymising tools protect you from people who might have access to the network or the website that you're browsing identifying you as reader or author of particular material - e.g. if you're a secret blogger in a repressive regime.
I use TOR then use a proxy through TOR
While that is true, what should be mentioned is how well an ISP keeps track of their IPs. Most people when they surf the net use a Dynamic IP, which means the ISP gives you an address that is just temporary. Every so often, depending on the ISP's set up, the IP will change for the end user. ISPs have a record of what IPs they use, but how long they keep them and what info they keep vary ISP to ISP and location. (Meaning: ISPs in the US may keep different info than, say Europe. An ISP in my state may keep different info than say New York City, etc)
Now, ISPs can give you a static IP and that negates all I just mentioned. (The IP is permanent virtual mailing addy)...
One thing to keep in mind: ISPs don't just give info away. Most ISPs in the US won't give back logs of IPs unless given a subpena. I am pretty sure that ISPs and Judges would tell Scientology "NO U" if they went up and asked for the logs of somebody who butthurt them was critical of them on some blog. However, that would be different if there was some "legitimate" legal reason.
If we go on that route, let's start about MAC addresses and programming protocols.
Hey Dragon, I can understand your frustrations with people that can't seem to learn about technology...but you didn't grow up on a deserted island did you? People taught you how to do things your entire life, from tying your shoes to wiping your ass. If it wasn't for teachers you would have no idea how to use a computer. You would still be struggling with 2+2.
Some people learn at different rates. I'm sure that if you had to learn brain surgery from scratch and there was no one with experience there to help you, well it might take you while to catch on and do it successfully. I've only been on line for about 5.5 years and it was a pain in the ass to try and catch up with the rest of the world. But you know what? I learned because I had help from friends who knew how it works. Even at my advanced age I learned how to do it.
What is really funny is that I was one of the first people in the US to ever use a digital camera. Sony didn't just drop it in my hands and say Here ya go...learn how to use it. They sent a technician along to teach me how to use it. I'm sure I could have figured out how to use it but it sure made it a lot easier having the tech guy there to help me, seeing as I had never used a computer before.
What I'm trying to say is, have a little patience with newbs and lend a hand. Share some of your knowledge with them.
Who knows, the anonymity you save my be your own.
I teach people in their 70's and 80's how to use computers and the internet. Talk about testing your patience and sanity.
First: May want to reread - It posted half way.
Second: MAC addys are different than IPs. MACs are more identifiable and more personal than an IP. However, depending on how persistent the person is and depending on how tech savy the person is too, getting the MAC isn't an easy feat that somebody can get.
Third: A good example to use is the RIAA's penchant to sue colleges using broad, almost vague, scopes. Instead of IDing the MAC, they go for the IP and then drop a lawsuit against "John Doe 1 through XX". All because the RIAA lawyers are unable to ID who did what, but rather just nuke it with the lawsuit based on an IP.
Fourth: I ain't disagreeing with you or saying you are wrong. There is more you can say or expand on.
Well, it's not exactly rocket science, is it?
Why do you think they make manuals? Owh wait, hardly anyone reads those things...
I think most of the people here grew up with the best doxing device ever made, the Pokédex
Owh I'm familiar with that.
There's a slight difference between teaching anyone how to use something and how to use it wisely.
Who are you referring "stupid" to? The ones who can't control themselves cough.. cough... or the ones who actually contribute and actually help make a difference?
The ones who keep doing the same, only slightly hidden.
If you use the username "loln00b" for basicly everything, well Tor and VPN's won't save yo ass
Excellent point. And one sees it a lot.
There was no manual. We were sort of writing it as we went along. This pre Mavica.
By the way did you teach yourself how to read or did you have some help?
Dragononymous I'm not trying to be mean and all, but do you not like this thread or something or are you saying people don't wanna learn this crap?
You all have a wonderful opportunity to stay on topic here, I suggest you take it.
In that case +10
I have had some help, which I think goes for the most of us here.
I learned to read and used that ability to learn more
Others learned to read and used that ability only to whine about Young Boy Bieber's Haircut.
It's about what you do with the learned ability, not who taught you it.
Yeh sorry let's all just get back to the original topic!
They will if you piss off the wrong people. I was 14 and decided to scan an entire subnet in Hawaii to try to guess my friend's IP address (he had sub7 installed so we could fuck around with each other) and accidentally tried to connect to the naval warfare center. Two angry men in uniform were at my door the next day.
That was the day I learned that military firewalls spoof commonly exploited ports in order to trick hackers into thinking they might be able to find their way in. This was late 90s too, at least 2 years before 9/11.
edit: changed 3 years to 2, sub7 was released in 1999.
I insist you show the disadvantages of TOR and other proxy crap!
MAC addresses aren't included in IP packet headers over the Internet. You'd have to be on their LAN or sniffing their wireless connection.
There's a certain OG, who's gone completely moonbat, who still posts to ARS through TOR. He might as well not bother, since his posting style, newsreader string and other details are quite unique. All he's hiding is which trailer park he's currently posting from.
CircleJerk Report: T-Socks
Well yeah, I was 14. I didn't know what the fuck I was doing. TOR didn't exist back then either.
1995, it did
Enough. Seriously. This is ridiculous. Let people learn. Contribute to that positively or don't contribute.
Tor (short for The onion router) is a system intended to enable online anonymity. Tor client software routes Internet traffic through a worldwide volunteer network of servers in order to conceal a user's location or usage from anyone conducting network surveillance or traffic analysis. Using Tor makes it more difficult to trace Internet activity, including "visits to Web sites, online posts, instant messages and other communication forms", back to the user and is intended to protect users' personal freedom, privacy, and ability to conduct confidential business by keeping their internet activities from being monitored.
"Onion routing" refers to the layered nature of the encryption service: The original data are encrypted and re-encrypted multiple times, then sent through successive Tor relays, each one of which decrypts a "layer" of encryption before passing the data on to the next relay and, ultimately, its destination. This reduces the possibility of the original data being unscrambled or understood in transit.
The Tor client is free software and there are no additional charges to use the Tor network.
Original source: http://www.answers.com/topic/tor-anonymity-network
Hope this helps break down what TOR is for those new to it :s please say if this wasnt helpful and i will try and find more information for you if needed
Actually, TOR was based on the Naval Research Lab and not patented until 1998. The first application came at around the same time. TOR, the second generation version based on (ostensibly) civilian servers, didn't come out until 2004 or so. You may be thinking of the remailer networks. The first kind of remailer, the Type I remailer or cypherpunks remailer, was developed in 1992, and the most common currently used remailer is Type II, or Mixmaster, developed some time afterwards. This advanced security against so-called "partition" attacks, that is, people who use the remailers in identifiable ways, by splitting all traffic into 29K packets and padding them out as necessary so they all look like the same noise, among other improvements. There was a third type, Mixminion, in development and there is a working prototype, although TOR's introduction seems to have taken the wind out of its sails and, so far as I can tell, only the remailer currently exists, with no other tools.
TOR is much easier to use and probably more insecure, because it allows continuous connections. Unlike remailer messages, an ongoing TOR connection will continue to go through the same "circuit" until changed. This gives an attacker more time. Plus, as traffic appears more or less similar to normal web traffic through HTTP, any web exploits that work over the normal Internet work on a remote server serving over TOR. As OP Darknet showed, anyone giving out user information over TOR is just as dumb as anyone doing the same over the "normal" Internet.
If you're serious about educating people then you might want to offer more of an explanation. If you're more interested in mocking than educating then... carry on.
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