Re: OPERATION: Wake the hell Up! Well, if it's any comfort, most Scn's get out. And remember about the pickets. Arnie's right on, and as I'd said before elsewhere, one thing Scn's believe is SP's can't persist at all ever. So Anon persists?! Messes with their minds, you bet. Not gonna paint any rosy pix of upper management though. St Pete Times article "Strength in Numbers" was right on too. Gotta go fix dinner. You are Not helpless!
Re: OPERATION: Wake the hell Up! A tip from Steve Hassan's "Combating cult mind control" suggests talking about another cult and getting the opinion of your friend about that. Then tell them info about the other cult- how they recruit, how they isolate members from the outside world etc- you'll find pretty much all cults use similar methods to $cientology. Let your friend then see the similarities between $cientology and the other cult. By this less direct route you may find your friend will be far less defensive and even think critically. Also, let your friend know that you'll always be there for them.
Re: OPERATION: Wake the hell Up! Meh, sounds like your friend is pretty far gone. Might not be too late though. Best idea is to figure out what hole she's trying to fill with the CoS. From there, try to lead her to more healthy ways of filling those holes. Heh, holes.
Re: OPERATION: Wake the hell Up! to Anon6429: I'm sure there's Anon's who'd be glad to inform you about picketing and sounds like you should be with another Anon for first one. Forgot to say it's obvious you are rattled about this and I'm so sorry you as well as her family going thru this. Lots of good advice here, but just my 2 cents: someone who is mentally at the point of turning back on their own children is likely in need of profound expert help. I travelled thru various countries and met Scn's all over. I can tell you that most will leave early on. Those who stay will leave when the financial or family thing hits the shit fan. There's a few I see still in and I can tell you they are mentally challenged in some way or other. (I'm talking about from early 70's) Take heart. There Will Be a time when those walls will crack. Anonymous are the chisels that are speeding up the process. Not all the King's Horses or all the King's Men, could put Humpty Dumpty together again
Re: OPERATION: Wake the hell Up! This is especially interesting to me as someone who has been supportive of Russo and his work (albeit mostly just as a spectator) for years. What's posted in this thread feels like I'm walking in on a conversation in progress, but anyway, wanted to respond to this: Great advice IMO. Dont' try to tie the (mental) knot yourself, just lay the strings where they go and let her see what logically follows. It's her choice anyway. Approaching from the side often works better than a full frontal assault. Ask questions. Ask more questions. Ask questions that get her to ask herself questions. Open-ended ones will probably work better than "leading" ones where she'll feel pushed into producing "the" "right" answer.
Re: OPERATION: Wake the hell Up! Again, all good advice, for someone who is Already Cracking. Just don't want Anon6429 to take a loss. I've seen and experienced Scio's on all levels for a long time. Understand that the bond a mother has to her children is possibly the strongest one there is and for that to be broken is monumental as well as complex and in my experience, one for one, those who get to this point are seriously mentally challenged. I just ask Anon's to not fall for the Scn propaganda. Most Scn's leave at certain critical points. We are Not all stupid ignorant losers. Most I have known (and I've known thousands, personally) truly just want to better themselves and their environment. Everyone has their "oh shit" moment and leaves. Scn families that stay in are only the wealthy ones these days. period. Prevalent today more than ever. My point is to concentrate on the new raw meat and keep them from entering this blackhole. It's a "cut off the head of the snake" that will get the desired results. I've read posts where Anon's think they're not being effective. Truly not so. Keep it up!
Re: OPERATION: Wake the hell Up! You know, I hate to air this out, but here it goes. From the conversation I had with her sister, she expressed deep worry that Brooke might be mentally "sick." It really does seem like it, as I expressed before, her paranoia is running rampant. I wish I could easily talk to her, but that time is gone. She has labeled me an SP, and does not care to respond to my calls or e-mails. Hence, why I resorted to spamming her website with info. In other words, someone who is this deep, most def has something wrong with them. It saddens me to say it, but I almost feel she's a lost cause. I would still like to try what I can, to get her out though. I don't know how much good it will do, but it's better than not doing anything at all. I will try to get together with some anons from Clearwater, and see what I can do to help out. This is not going to stop me, I hope to save others, even if I can't save my friend right now. I hope one day, someone helps her where I couldn't though. Thanks to you all for your help, and advice, it really does make a world of difference.
Re: OPERATION: Wake the hell Up! UPDATE!!! Soooo... the chick who Brooke Kelley (aka Kelley Gravlee, aka Kelley Hadley aka Kelley McKinzey) had brought along on her road trip, has dropped of the trip and decided to call it quits. It was expected, really. I didn't think it would last longer than a month, and they just hit that mark. She apparently couldn't handle Brooke's extreme micromanagement of her every day life. Also, as it occurred with previous freedom rider, the one time they stood up made Brooke FUME at the ears. In other words, it was bound to happen. A scientologist like mindset is not formulated to operate along with other people who don't buy into it, and are truly FREE. Add a dab of mental instability and you get a really dangerous person, one capable of throwing you into situations that may cause harm in one way or another. One thing does worry... Brooke has partaken with another rider, a famed Stalker she met at "Porc Fest." Dumb girl is dumb. She lacks reason, she is self destructive, and makes all people around her who do not chime to her drum seem like they want to slow her down and destroy her. Please, someone Help Her! sincerely, anon
Re: OPERATION: Wake the hell Up! Freedom Ride 2009 Interview Besides this update, I would like to ask if one of you is observer, phd (user on Restore The Republic Vlog). Please fess up to what you have a PHD in. Thank you. Just curious.
Re: OPERATION: Wake the hell Up! So for a while there, I left it alone. I went back on the site so see what she was up to, and lo and behold... There is a bunch of hidden propaganda in her facebook. Brooke Kelley | Facebook The following page has her saying how she's close to T.C. and has a bunch of the same friends. Login | Facebook I think she just wants to get into the celebrity center. She's been using this whole thing in order to raise herself to said status, so that she may enter that center. It's kind of freakish, and sickening. Anyhow, just another update on someone who is using people around her in order to advance in the CoS. Worst part is that she calls herself a "Hippe." First off, learn to spell you looser. Secondly, you are not a hippie, just a dirty woman who dislikes showers, and is afraid of the world because of what the CoS tells her to be. What a looser.
Re: OPERATION: Wake the hell Up! Hey, where are those deprogramming files/methods that anon recommends? Linkds are down. Psychiatryfag here and read to learn.
Re: OPERATION: Wake the hell Up! Thanks for the link, but exit therapy isn't going to help someone being directly induced with NLP and other tactics. I'm a psychiatryfag, I know how this shit works, I just need more advanced tactics so I can get him to exit therapy. No, he's not locked in my basement or some shit ... He's being mindraped though, so I guess that kinda makes this urgent. I have one shot to get him out, and one shot only and then I'll be putting myself at serious risk (Aka, loss of life). I have a few days to pick up some more advanced tactics. Please help Anon.
Re: OPERATION: Wake the hell Up! Cillian you might want to post your request at ESMB New Member Introductions - Ex Scientologist Message Board this is a forum for activism (and fun)...cult recovery? not so much
Re: OPERATION: Wake the hell Up! You're a psychiatrist asking unqualified people on the internet to give you advice on psychological matters? What?
Re: OPERATION: Wake the hell Up! I'll look around some more but I think you should read this through, it is possible you'll figure out a tack from it that'll work, as far as I've read there is no cut&dry method, I wish you the best of luck and if I can think of anything else to help shed some light I'll bump this post too. Social Control in Scientology Also, and for the life of me can't remember which thread it was, a tactic that I thought was rather brilliant was to take another cult and analyze it critically with the person, let them draw their own parallels. I'll try and find the thread for you (it is here somewhere, maybe somebody else has better memory of it). Herro, I understand where yer coming from but consider that he may not have the time needed to do as much research as many of us have and is asking for some direction to pertinent infos. Lol@self, it was this thread I was thinking of (DOH! & DUH!), but here is another one to read through> http://forums.whyweprotest.net/291-scientology-discussion/need-advice-59239/ Advice to head over to ESMB is best yet, there is a thread there called "What made you wake up?" or very similar, it is long but an excellent read and may give you some clues as to usable triggers.
Re: OPERATION: Wake the hell Up! Well, I'm not done with my degree yet, but I've been studying these tactics for years. I know there are better ones out there. Anon has always delivered before. I don't wanna expect anything, but I'm desperate. I won't lie. I'm pretty sick to my stomach. The recruiter I'm having to beat is extremely good and extremely dangerous. Besides, my degree is aimed towards PTSD treatments ... even though that's close to exit therapy. Thanks for the link Anon. I really do appreciate it.
Re: OPERATION: Wake the hell Up! Studying what tactics? Cillian sounds to me like a business major who took a psych 101 course and is now an expert on cults. Your friend is fucked if you're "the savior going against the awesome recruiter".
Re: OPERATION: Wake the hell Up! http://forums.whyweprotest.net/291-scientology-discussion/need-advice-59239/ This is the ESMB thread I was thinking of, it is very long but worthy read imho, as it will give you a very good idea of the sort of things that made people go 'wtf?'. > What Changed Your Mind About LRH? - Ex Scientologist Message Board
Re: OPERATION: Wake the hell Up! Look, I'm no expert on anything. I consider myself a little more adept at this shit than some guy who read a few of Richard Bandler's books for a business meeting. Forgive me for being a bit scared and requesting aid. I know enough to recognize it, defend against it, and remain invisible. I've been attacked by other people who use these tactics before, just not a Scientologist. He's not using Overt tactics, everything he's doing is subversive and covert. He's even going under the guise of using this as a business. Most of the tactics I study involve the various kinds of hypnosis (Art therapy, (still working on this alot) EEG Neurofeedback, Behavioral Modification), which I use on a willing only basis to help people improve their lives when they need it. I know enough about NLP, Covert Conditioning Tactics, and Body Language manipulation to defend myself ... to a point. This guy is above and beyond what I know and I only began to recognize what he was doing in time to save myself and GTFO. Look I just need help. Badly. This shit is about beating Scientology! One of the ways to do that is to free people. If you help me beat him, you help slow or stop the flow of recruits which cuts down on the growth of their power. Its like cancer, you cut off the food supply and you kill the tumor. And do you think that I'll stop here? Now that I've seen this in action, I'm on your side indefinitely, weither or not I can save him. Please Anon, I'm begging you. This is my friend. One of my very few friends.
Re: OPERATION: Wake the hell Up! Took me a while to post it up, but it's up. In dire need of assistance - Ex Scientologist Message Board Sorry, I know I'm freakin' out, but this is all very recent and I feel so helpless. My deadline is Monday. Thanks for the calm guidance Anon. I hope I can pull this off.
Re: OPERATION: Wake the hell Up! Cillian, Be a friend willing to listen and to help, if the help is wanted.
Re: OPERATION: Wake the hell Up! First off don't be worried about body language, hypnosis, NLP. Those things arn't used in Scientology. Second A Psychiatrist would be a medical doctor, so you would be in med school then ? But I really doubt it would be legal for you to try to practice with out a license. People are not brainwashed instantly, if there is a business idea he has been sold on ask him questions about how it works etc... follow the money and ask him to find out exactly where the money is coming from and going and what he gets in exchange for it. Pro tip: You don't know what you are talking about. Just deal with people like they are people. You don't need to "trick" anybody out of Scientology. Just explin the facts and hope they see them the same way.
Re: OPERATION: Wake the hell Up! I'm a psychiatrist IRL, but post Anonymously for reasons of my own safety. my analysis:
Re: OPERATION: Wake the hell Up! What do you mean? Have you read Dianetics at all? Its full of NLP. I stopped trying to pick apart that book after a fifty or so pages. I can't defend against all that. Working on my undergrad and applying for med school soon. Been trying to learn as much as I can about actual therapy (which doesn't apply as much here) before I go. But, is it ethical for me to stand back and let this happen? Which I understand to be a glaring anomaly. However, I had to fend off these exact techniques day in and day out around him. I've been acting like a sleeper in their midst, watching what they do and trying to figure out how to beat it. Good idea. Thanks. Here is the problem with that ... I know this guy IS using those techniques. I've had them used against me many times before and I've been studying them for five years. I know he's showing me stuff that relates and supports Scientology. I haven't seen anything that directly links him to the church. He hasn't pointed us towards the church (Directly or Overly = through conscious means). Also, if some is being induced into any of the psychological manipulation techniques, they won't consciously know it, and my friend isn't trained in any of that. How is he to ask for help if he doesn't even know he's under attack?
Re: OPERATION: Wake the hell Up! Who has PTSD? I have Bi Polar, but I'm doing all I can, with my psychiatrist, to treat it. Admittingly, I am having a horrible manic cycle right now, and mine are scary rather than super happy. I'm trying my best to over come it. The urgency of the danger is greater than my own personal discomfort. Why the cops? So the recruiter knows I'm onto him, instead of being able to work in the shadows against him. I'm trying to, effectively, turn his own tools and weapons against him ... But, I'm far less skilled. I only have the element of ... well I guess surprise. I guess I should be posting anonymously too.
Re: OPERATION: Wake the hell Up! First NLP wasn't even recognized until the 1970's ( over 20 years after Dianetics) and second it is practically a cult itself. It really only seems to work on people who study it. Who are trained to see failures as parital successes, in other words you trick yourself into believing that it works. Sounds like you are reading a lot of pop psych. bullshit. You know that is how Scientologists get started. Was it ethical to tell people you are almost a psychiatrist ? So you got yourself into a situation where you are being recruited to be a scientologist ? LOL, that must be boring, they are winning every time you come back and talk about it. You are just giving them a practice by offering yourself up to be their guinea pig. Someone trying to recruit you into scientology is only thinking of the up stat they will get for themselves they really don't care about any possible gain you might get. So you don't even know he is a scilon ? He is probably just trying to get you into so multi level marketing thing using the high pressure sales tactics What is the name of the organization this guy is into ? Tell him to google search the organization that is trying to pull him in. Big hint it is a scam is that they will have a meeting in a hotel ballroom, just moved into a new office, or share an office with another company, and tell you how much money other people are getting checks for and how recently they got that check.
Re: OPERATION: Wake the hell Up! I think I've said this before, but I have had to defend from such tactics in the past. I disagree that NLP is only useful against/with someone who believes it. I've seen self proclaimed PUAs use it the screw with my friend's heads with disastrous results. I agree though, NLP is a cult all on its own. I hate its use for negative or self serving purposes. I personally never us it. I donno what I saw then, in regards to NLP in Dianetics, but it looked exactly like that style of writing in many places. Halve or so probably is, the rest is text books and manuals I've bought or downloaded. I didn't mean to imply that. I should have been more careful with my wording. I meant, when I said psychiatryfag that I am a psychiatry enthusiast and student and I thoroughly enjoy helping people. A) The fact that this guy was a scientologist wasn't realized until much later. B) I have to protect my friend. C) He's giving me just as much practice. D) Didn't know he was a Scientology, not until very recently. I think I already said that though. He's not using any kind of remotely obvious front. Can't hand that out without giving away who I am and where I am. He'd know it right away. It's got a Scientology name. Something about an emperor alien. That's one of the tricky parts. He built the mini organization with us. Didn't start telling us stories about aliens and shit till a couple of days ago ... which is when I started noticing the psychological manipulation techniques being inlaid.
Re: OPERATION: Wake the hell Up! On nooooooooooooooooooooos! Its... Its........ Church of FSM! (well it ain't fucking COS, no mention of alien anything there)
Re: OPERATION: Wake the hell Up! Its whatever that Xenu guy is. He's an alien right? I don't really care for their rubbish. Lulz, flying spaghetti monster recruiters. I can see it now. Thanks, that's the first laugh I've had all day.
Re: OPERATION: Wake the hell Up! Cillian, if you're in a true manic phase right now, please jot down the steps you plan to take once you've formulated your plan with the help of the folks on ESMB. You don't want the mania to jeopardize what sounds like a tricky situation. Use the notes as a road map, per se. How long do you suppose it is until you cycle to depression? You want to time this carefully not only for your friend, but for you, as well. Best wishes.
Re: OPERATION: Wake the hell Up! I have been taking careful precautions about actually doing anything more than gathering information. I'm gonna be level by tomorrow I think. Can't tell, but here's hoping. Everything is kinda fuzzy right now, so I can't say much with certainty. I've isolated myself (before the cycle started) from their reach as best I can, throwing out fake causes and giving quiet reassurance that all is well for them. I've played this game before and I'm here to talk about it. Thank you Anon, you never fail. Can't wait for the next protest.
