Original OT VIII before DM squirreled it

Discussion in 'Situation Rooms' started by KittyKatSpanker, Jan 26, 2014.


    OT VIII, Part 2
    US District Court, Central District of California
    Fishman Case No 91-6426 HLH (Tx)
    Saint Hill Manor. East Grinstead, Sussex
    OT VIII Course Students
    OT OT VIII Auditors
    AO Review Auditors
    AO C/Ses
    OT VIII Series I
    C O N F I D E N T I A L
    By the time you read this I will no longer be occupying the body and
    identity that you have known as Ron. That identity continues to live
    in the hearts and minds of many as well as in on-Source tech and admin
    centers around the planet, and will inspire for years to come
    Scientologists and lovers of truth every-where.
    What follows is a story that has been withheld, for reasons which will
    soon be obvious, until such time as there were enough OTs that
    something could be done about it. That time Is now. It is not a nice
    or a pretty story. but I trust
    that having arrived on the OT VIII Course you are ready to hear it.
    You have undoubtedly heard pieces of data over the years that hinted
    at the greater untold reality of my mission here on Earth. but the
    story was never written, nor spoken. in its entirety due to security
    problems that have unfortunately always plagued the organization. It
    is only now that I feel it safe to release the information, although
    the time is rapidly approaching when I will have no choice in the
    matter, the hour draws that near.
    I an not going to delve too deeply into specifics as people have a
    tendency to bog themselves down in significance. which would only
    serve to delay the immediacy of the task at hand. Therefore I will be
    Some eighty-odd million years ago Earth time (it actually dates at
    78,395,042 but dates are & bit superfluous with this material) plans
    were drawn by a group outside the MEST universe for the eventual
    takeover of a good portion of
    this universe. Not a particularly large nor Imaginative crew, their
    exterior perspective. however. gives them considerable advantage over
    tho time-bound beings of the MEST universe. Borrowing from earlier
    operations such as
    Helotrobus. they conceived an ongoing implant. some portions of which
    have been fairly faithfully rendered in parts of the Bible. This
    implant, laid in by carefully controlled genetic mutation at Incident
    Two of OT Ill and periodically reinforced by controlled historic
    events since then, makes it effectively impossible for beings on the
    more heavily affected planets such as Earth to become free. It causes
    progressive genetic "evolution" that gives the subject population
    greater and greater susceptibility to the telepathic impingement and
    direction of the controllers. In its final stage the progression
    becomes almost geometric, and it is this final stage that we are
    rapidly approaching. (0129)
    Another aspect of this GE-line implant is that the body becomes in
    effect a sort of thats trap that kicks in heavily on the being should
    he attempt to expand his horizons beyond that of pure physical
    universe reality. There can be temporary key-outs which we have all
    experienced in varying degrees. but until this area is handled it can
    honestly be said that there is no hope for continued expansion. The
    good news is that once this is run out. expansion becomes rather
    effortless and almost automatic.
    No doubt you are familiar with the Revelations section of the Bible
    where various events are predicted. Also mentioned Is a brief period
    of time in which an arch-enemy of Christ. referred to as the anti-
    Christ, will reign and his opinions will have sway. All this makes for
    very fantastic, entertaining
    reading but there is truth in it. This anti-Christ represents the
    forces of Lucifer (literally, the "light bearers" or "light bringer"),
    Lucifer being a mythical representation of the forces of
    enlightenment, the Galactic Confederacy. My mission could be said to
    fulfill the Biblical promise represented by this brief anti-Christ
    During this period there is a fleeting opportunity for the whole
    scenario to be. effectively derailed. which
    would make it impossible for the mass Marcabian landing (Second
    Coming) to take place. The Second Coming is designed, among other
    things, to trigger a rapid
    series of destructive events.
    With the exception of the original Buddhism, virtually all religions
    of any consequence on this planet, mono- and pantheistic alike. have
    been instruments to speed the progress of this "evolution of
    consciousness" and bring about the eventual enslavement of mankind. As
    you know, Siddhartha Gautama never claimed to be anything more than a
    man. Having caught on to this operation, he
    postulated his own return as Metteyya, part of which prophecy will
    have been fulfilled upon the passing of L. Ron Hubbard.
    For those of you whose Christian toes I may have stepped on. let me
    take the opportunity to disabuse you of some lovely myths. For
    instance, the historic Jesus was not nearly the sainted figure has
    been made out to be. In addition
    to being a lover of young boys and men. he was given to uncontrollable
    bursts of temper and hatred that belied the general message of love,
    understanding and other typical Marcab PR. You have only to look at
    the history his teachings inspired to see where it all inevitably
    leads. It Is historic fact and yet man still clings to the ideal. so
    deep and insidious is the biologic implanting.
    It Is a good joke that the Calactic Confederacy is associated with the
    Serpent in the Garden, the beast and other emissaries of the "Prince
    of Darkness". Yet
    in certain passages and esoteric interpretations of the Bible (much of
    which has been taken out and effectively suppressed for centuries) as
    well as the
    Cabbalah, the truth reveals itself quite nicely for the clever and the
    So it really is a race against time and one that we happen to be
    losing at the moment, as the implant drama inexorably plays itself out
    in spite of the breakneck pace I've managed to keep up these last
    thirty-five years.
    I had an inkling, but only that, of the insidiousness of this material
    as far back as 1945. Later. in charcteristic over-optimism, I thought
    that R6 would be the end of it. But that was followed by NOTs and the
    Purification Rundown
    and still the string continued to unwind with the ball at the end of
    it just out of sight. It makes ons wonder about such things as fate
    and destiny, such
    was the resolve with which I managed to cling to that string. not
    often knowing how close I was to falling into the abyss myself. but
    destiny it merely the rationalization of feeble minds. Things don't
    just happen, they are caused.
    And causative beings can undo the plans of madmen and would-be
    enslavers, no matter how long those plans may have been in the making.
    I will soon leave this world only to return and complete my mission
    with another Identity. Although I long to stretch my arms back in
    repose on some distant star in some distant galaxy. It appears that is
    one dream that will
    have to wait. But my return depends on people like you doing these
    materials thoroughly and completely so that there will be a
    genetically uncontaminated body for me to pick up and resume where I
    left off. A body free of religious
    mania, right/wrong dichotomy and synthetic karma. The job ahead is far
    too tough to even contemplate doing with your standard -- courtesy of
    certain other-dimensional players and their Marcab pieces, many of
    whom are right here
    In the general populace -- genetically altered body.
    Without the biogenetic meddling of those who stand outside time (who
    cannot yet directly influence our world and must work through others)
    the dwindling spiral is not nearly as automatic and self-perpetuating
    as it appears. There are
    regions even in isolated parts of the Milky Way where poets are free
    to poet and magicians can paint reality with their magic wands and
    exteriorize without body kickback. But these areas unfortunately are
    fewer and fewer.
    I will return not as a religious leader but a political one. That
    happens to be the requisite beingness for the task at hand. I will not
    be known to most of you, my activities misunderstood by many, yet
    along with your constant
    effort in the theta band I will effectively postpone and then halt a
    series of events designed to make happy slaves of us all.
    So there you have it. The secret that I have kept close to my chest
    all these years. Now you too are part of this secret and I no longer
    have to shoulder the burden alone or live with the possibility of body
    death before all the data
    could be released. And with this briefing I entrust to each of you the
    responsibility for this material until such time as I an able to
    return. For we have no help from any other quarter in this matter. The
    handful of secret societies throughout history that have caught on to
    this game have long since
    fallen by the wayside or been taken over and become instruments of the
    very menace they were set up to combat.
    The rundown is long and can be arduous, but it must be done thoroughly
    if there is to be any effect not only on the body of the pre-OT but
    the body of his or her progeny as wall. There is some danger, but with
    OT VII thoroughly complete
    It is not nearly so great as the danger witnessed by assorted
    unfortunates who happened to stumble into this area in their sleep or
    in moments of reverie or anaten, experiencing an hitherto mysterious
    phenomenon known as "spontaneous
    But the area is well charted. the rundown many years in secret
    development, and by the time you read this undoubtedly completed on
    myself. The wins awaiting
    you are like none that you have ever experienced, not just for you.
    but for your children. your children's children and the whole of
    mankind, if we succeed. And we will. If we had time we should pity the
    many poor souls, from (0131)
    1950 to PT, who chose such an exactly inopportune moment to drop off
    the road to truth and disconnect from reality, the full burst and
    glory of OT practically within their grasp. But we haven't the time to
    "wax philosophic" or ponder might have beens.
    The rundown follows. Again I say, do it thoroughly and completely, for
    it is your ticket to the stars. And beyond!
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  2. fishypants Moderator

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  3. for you

  4. CarterUSP Member

    Not sure how accurate this doc is. I think it came out as part of Fishman docs, if memory serves me correctly.
    Has any ex ever verified it as genuine?
    • Like Like x 1
  5. CarterUSP Member

    Damn, didn't read the previous post.
    Anyone know what the actual rundowns are as part of this?
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  6. fishypants Moderator


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  7. I suggest reading the link that my close friend Cat Daddy send me. You see Marty wanting to know more from the OT8s that he seems to trust and believe - even if it contra dicts his own research while still inside - that say it is genuine LRH. And than make up your own mind.
  8. DeathHamster Member

    The timeframe doesn't match Miscavige altering it. A number of OT-8s said that they didn't see it, and that was long before swamper cameraman and best boy Miscavige was on the scene.

    As usual, Hubbard was probably making it up as he went along, then contradicted himself the next day.
  9. They did see it, I do not understand you

    Sorry, please explain
            • [IMG] martyrathbun09 | July 4, 2013 at 1:21 pm | Reply
              The alleged OT VIII “HCOB” that calls Jesus a pedophile? Yes, a hoax.
              • [IMG] Bob Grant | July 4, 2013 at 2:57 pm | Reply
                No, it was not a hoax. That HCOB was on the Class VIII course I did back in ’88.
                The second part of that HCOB was the tech for OTVIII.
                • [IMG] martyrathbun09 | July 4, 2013 at 3:30 pm | Reply
                  Bob, can you email about this? I have heard from a number of OT VIIIs and Class VIIIs that it was hoax, which aligns with my own research while in.
                  • [IMG] Windhorse | July 4, 2013 at 3:43 pm | Reply
                    I did the first version of OTVIII which the Internet claimed had this Christ reference – I can tell you it definitely was NOT part of the OTVIII that I did and I rereading the materials several times returning to the Freewinds for various crams, fix ups etc.
                    LRS was dismissive but not anti-Christ as far as everything I’ve studied and heard (LRH materials)
                    • [IMG] Path of Buddha | July 4, 2013 at 8:34 pm |
                      The anti-Christ OT8 that I did on the Freewinds was on July 17, 1988.
                      I met miscavige on the Freewinds just before he canned it.
                      I remember because I met him on the main deck for a supper
                      buffet. My two FSM’s did it before me and very candidly we discussed
                      the anti-Christ, the synthetic Karma, and the spontaneous combustion of anyone who could not get it all right. Hugh Urban agrees with me as
                      he has also researched it at Ohio State. The religious department there has
                      known about at for about five years. It is common knowledge in academic
                      Much Metta,
                      George M. White
                    • [IMG] Bob Grant | July 4, 2013 at 9:27 pm |
                      There have been many incarnations of the Class VIII course. The Class VIII course I did was the “Original Class VIII Course Project” in ’88, which was to bring back the original Class VIII Course as taught by LRH in ’68, hence the course I did was called, “The Original Class VIII Course”. It was at AOLA.
                      There have been extensive alterations of the Class VIII course taught by LRH. I have personal first hand knowledge of two of them. In the mid ’80s, ASHO DAY altered it’s Class VIII course to eliminate all references to the OT levels, which was ridiculous as the purpose of the Class VIII auditor was to be the review auditor for the OT levels. Who ever did that course missed all HCOBs and tapes that referenced to the OT data, specifically OTIII, which as you know was an extensive part of the course.
                      As I said, the Original Class VIII Course Project was to bring back the Class VIII course as LRH had initially created it, but, the mice started to get to that one too. While I was on the course, I and others noticed that tape transcripts were slowly being altered. I’m not sure when I first noticed it, perhaps the third time through the checksheet; the tapes and transcripts no longer matched., substitutions were being made, and no one knew who was doing it, not even Mellissa, the Class VIII sup. We were able to dig up the true transcripts which were still available and used those, and marked the altered ones so no one would pick it up with the tape and get confused.
                      Per Chris Black, who did the Class VIII course just after me in ’89, the tapes were being cut up and destroyed, and replaced with the sanitized ones. He participated in their being cut up, which he was uncomfortable doing.
                      I dug into this, and apparently there is an issue which makes it ‘ok’ to cut out of any LRH material anything that shows him in a bad light. In the Original Class VIII Course, LRH was not particularly kind or polite; he would curse, and I mean curse, and yell and cancel certs. In one instance he was calling an auditor a ‘BITCH’ cancelled all her certs on the spot because she was confused between two auditing actions.
                      One of the original Class VIII students who was on the course with LRH in ’68, I think his name was Pem, a name you may remember, was also on our course in 88. It was really cool to have him because there were moments on the tapes where the students would laugh or applaud, but nothing on the transcripts mentioned what LRH was doing that brought about the student reactions, and Pem told us what was happening. I may have the wrong person …
                      Anyway, the point of my wall of text is that the Class VIII Course has been altered. On the one that I did, that HCOB was on it, and I read it three times, and got checked out on it three times. That it was not on the Class VIII course you did comes as no surprise, as it was an issue that definitely was not supposed to be BPI.
                      Also, in the Lerma case, RTC listed that exact HCOB as being owned by RTC in the copyright infringing case along with vast numbers of other HCOBs, until someone realized the PR blunder of owning it, and dropped it from future lists. You can check A Lerma’s website to get that data.
                      That HCOB WAS, WAS, WAS on my Class VIII course.
                      Forrest Crane started the Class VIII course as I was winding down mine, so I assume he was on the same check sheet. Perhaps he can comment on if that HCOB was on it.
                    • [IMG] martyrathbun09 | July 4, 2013 at 9:44 pm |
                      It would be very helpful to hear from Forrest.
                    • [IMG] bob grant | July 4, 2013 at 10:38 pm |
                      Hi WH;
                      I just realized that you didn’t mention having done the Class VIII course and I went on a rant about it. Sorry about that, my mu … somewhere.
                    • [IMG] rainbodhi | July 5, 2013 at 6:52 am |
                      WH and others,
                      I first came across this letter a while ago when I was first studying various propaganda and discussion surrounding Scn and LRH. Upon revisiting it, and after having done quite a bit of study since that time, I must say that it seems even weirder and more incongruous to me now than it was even before.
                      I know that LRH made some strong statements about Christianity and other religions. And I am aware that there were a lot of changes, even a dramatic shift, between the 1950s and the 1960s. But if this letter is to be taken seriously, one would have to think he had done a complete about face in terms of his views.
                      For example, in the Phoenix Lectures (something that I keep coming back to):
                      “The use of Christianity was to produce a certain civilized state and many people would blacken Christianity by saying it reduced people down to a very low level indeed. This is not true. It took an entire world of slaves and it made free men out of them. This in itself was quite a gain.”
                      “Now, remember that Christianity in its basic wisdoms is still available to us in the New Testament, and that this, no matter how it has come through the line, is quickly and swiftly traceable back to the Veda.”
                      This is completely opposed to what is said in the letter:
                      “You have only to look at the history [Christ's] teachings inspired to see where it all inevitably leads. It is historic fact and yet man still clings to the ideal, so deep and insidious is the biologic implanting.”
                      And in contrast to the letter’s pooh-pooing of practically all earlier traditions, it also doesn’t seem to recognise that he’s on record tracing everything back – Buddhism included – to the Vedas, as being the earliest known major body of wisdom that we have.
                      Again in Phoenix Lectures:
                      “The Veda, should you care to look it over, is best read in a literal translation from the Sanskrit. And there are four major divisions of the Veda, all of them quite worth while. A great deal of our material in Scientology is discovered right back there.”
                      “And we find Scientology’s earliest certainly known ancestor in the Veda.”
                      So, something’s not adding up here. The letter also states that Gautama posited his own return as Maitreya. But historically this has never been considered to be the case as far as I know.
                      Does anyone have any quotes directly from LRH that suggest he ever believed this?
                      What I do know is that LRH stated, over and over, that there have been many buddhas, and there will be many more. That’s a much more open-ended view to have taken, and quite early on, too.
                      There are many elements in that letter that seem to contradict very strongly with other recorded comments, and in general, the whole attitude is just way off base:
                      “I had an inkling, but only that, of the insidiousness of this material as far back as 1945 [...] and still the string continued to unwind with the ball at the end of it just out of sight.”
                      That implies he was still searching for the root cause, when in fact he claimed to have already found it by that time.
                      If the letter had originated from someone within the church and actually made it into a curriculum, that’s some seriously nasty business. I feel for anybody who had to endure it.
                  • [IMG] Bob Grant | July 4, 2013 at 4:14 pm | Reply
                    Sure can. Anything specific you want me to send you?
                  • [IMG] Bob Grant | July 4, 2013 at 9:37 pm | Reply
                    Ok Marty, I’ll dig it up and send it.
                  • [IMG] bob grant | July 4, 2013 at 10:35 pm | Reply

    Attached Files:

  10. DeathHamster Member

    The reason that the Fishman OT8 "Jesus was a pedophile" text was classified as unreliable for a long time was that a number of OT8 exes had said that they never saw that text. It's only last year that a bunch of OT8s came forward and said that they had seen it. Both sets of OTs go back before Miscavige was in control.
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  11. Check, I like to give my close friend Cat Daddy some credit for sticking inthere yes ?
  12. thesneakster Member

    [Please note: I am only providing historical information. The following does *not* represent any claims as to the efficacy of any Scientology "OT Levels" or the validity of the underlying Scientology spiritual theory.]

    OT Course, Section VIII may have been incomplete and mostly existing in the form of research notes in Hubbard's papers and personal auditing folders at the time of his death. The first OT VIII HCO Bulletin is dated 1 Oct 1969, but contains only some theory and a preliminary sketch of possible procedure. Later there was an OT VIII Pilot Project on the Apollo for developing the actual course and auditing procedures with Bill Robertson having been one of the pre-OTs who did that pilot. I have been told the OT VIII pilot got shelved at that time because it caused serious case difficulties and physical illnesses with those who ran it, indicating that there was something else to handle before OT VIII could be run safely. In 1978, Hubbard stated that NED For OTs (which was developed in 1974/1975 to save Hubbard's life after a series of strokes) handled whatever it was that had previously made OT VIII unsafe and that it would be released at such a time as there were enough NOTS completions to justify setting up the necessary course facilities.

    Here is the problem then, without access to Hubbard's research archives (his personal PC folders and research notes), there really is no way to verify whether the purported "OT VIII" Material attached to the Steve Fishman Affidavit was: (a) the same as the original Apollo pilot; (b) a new version compiled from further Hubbard instructions and research notes; (c) for cases (a) or (b), whether the version in the Fishman affidavit was complete, accurate and unaltered; or (d) a hoax on the part of Fishman who may never have done OT VIII at all.

    Michael A. Hobson
    Independent Scientologist
  13. DeathHamster Member

    Now that several OT8s have come forward, we can toss out the hoax theory.

    By the way, the Fishman OT8 wasn't from Fishman but was submitted to his lawyer from persons unknown, so tracking down Fishman's course history would be a waste of time.
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  14. RightOn Member

    before or after still all SHIT
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  15. Cat Daddy is you, asshole.
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  16. Damn you are quick, 3 years after everybody else after self admittance


    Attached Files:

  17. Guess what, Hobson. IT DOESN'T MATTER ... IT IS ALL BULLSHIT!!



    This message by Hobsonsux has been hidden due to negative ratings. (Show message)
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  18. David Miscavige. It does not matter what trolls you fling at us. The truth will get disseminated
  19. WTF is wrong with you people? Someone posts that the OT levels are bullshit and you downvote that?

    OMFG!! WWP is going down the drain, bros.
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  20. "For those of you whose Christian toes I may have stepped on. let me
    take the opportunity to disabuse you of some lovely myths. For
    instance, the historic Jesus was not nearly the sainted figure has
    been made out to be. In addition
    to being a lover of young boys and men. he was given to uncontrollable
    bursts of temper and hatred that belied the general message of love,
    understanding and other typical Marcab PR. You have only to look at
    the history his teachings inspired to see where it all inevitably
    leads. It Is historic fact and yet man still clings to the ideal. so
    deep and insidious is the biologic implanting"

    L Ron Hubbard
  21. Hubbard completed squat, he was a leech on others

  22. How telling that LRH tech never mentions 'love'.
  23. Wow, you are so smart
  24. Thanks.
  25. Cute-Kitten-kittens-16122946-1280-800.jpg
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  26. fishypants Moderator

    LOL. "Research"

    I think you mean ";plot outline"

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  27. CarterUSP Member

    If, after scientology processing, a scientologist actually gained the flexibility to put their own head up their own arse - that would actually be a more impressive achievement than years of nothing but lies, bait and switch false promises and inflated stats.
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  28. RolandRB Member

    The only "research" Hubbard ever did was with pinks and greys, washed down with rum.
  29. actually that is refuted by Kima Douglas

  30. Woo Hah Member

    Quoting these so I can find them again later. Good points.
  31. No perfect memory ?
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  32. thesneakster Member

    KKS, you just went up several points in my estimation (for whatever it's worth) for upholding fairness and accuracy.

    To your remark I will add this: The alleged "pinks and greys" Hubbard quote comes from a passage in L. Rpn Hubbard: Messiah or Madman (first published in 1987) in which the authors very clearly state they never saw the purported letter from which it comes. Neither has any copy of the original (assuming it actually existed) and it's full text ever once been published by any critic, whether in print or on the Internet. Given the degree Hubbard critics rely upon that alleged quote to portray him as a pharmaceutical abuser, I should think that verifying whether he actually ever wrote that and what the context was might be of some import.

    Michael A. Hobson
    Independent Scientologist
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  33. Cancer pants
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  34. Cancer pants
    This message by Cancer pants has been hidden due to negative ratings. (Show message)
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  35. No originals exist in Scientology because history is regarded an Implant by Scientology.

    And I do believe L Ron Hubbards letter was real in wich he refered to pink and greys and rum. But I do think that was humor on his part

    He had bad "roid" rage though
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