OSA Program to shut Tory Christman down...

Discussion in 'Independent Scientology' started by Smurf, Nov 29, 2010.

  1. Re: OSA Program to shut Tory Christman down...

    ToryMagoo44 FOR THE WIN !

  2. exOT8Michael Member

    Re: OSA Program to shut Tory Christman down...


    Thanks Tory.
  3. Re: OSA Program to shut Tory Christman down...


    Tory is the cult's worst nightmare, someone who is honest, unselfish, not willing to compromise herself, willing to help others, and a good communicator ... mainly because those are concepts which are foreign to Scientology, and that's because they were foreign to Hubbard himself.
  4. Anonymous Member

    Re: OSA Program to shut Tory Christman down...

    mrinder | November 30, 2010 at 2:05 am | Reply Marty,
    "This program gives an interesting insight into the mind of a KoolAid drinker. It demonstrates the twisted idea that anything goes when it comes to protecting “the church.” It is very easily justified under the “greatest good for the greatest number of dynamics.” As Scientology enhances all dynamics, anyone who appears to have (or does have) counter intention to this should be destroyed. It is a mindset that I had for sure, and it is the mindset that is fostered by Dear Leader and the KoolAid brigade.

    When the well-being of all mankind is held up as what is being protected, you can justify anything. It becomes a “holy crusade” — no different than the religious fanatics who have launched Inquisitions, Crusades and Jihads where the lives of others are sacrificed based on the belief that everyone is being saved by their “holy” actions. The concepts of fundamental decency and human rights are thrown out the window. Sadly, this is what Scientology has devolved into (along with a few other concepts borrowed from history like indulgences [giving money to be given a pass by ethics] and the threat of going to hell [being declared and "never having the Bridge]). Sadly, it was the mindset that I had and fostered.

    Tory, Chuck Beatty, Mark Fisher and others were on the recieving end of this sort of thing and I agreed with and forwarded that view. I apologize for having done so and am doing what I can to expose the insanity and bring it to an end.
    But this crippled think isn’t just in OSA. Or just SO. Or staff. It is an inculcated view that is shared by most Scientologists. Its not healthy. Yet they believe they are absolutely right and absolutely justified."

    good start, Mike, but to bring it to an end, start by taking a second look at what you wrote. It's not justified, easily or any other way, for any reason whatsoever by those with a sound mind. We're talking about criminal activity and abusive behavior here.

    Like I said, good start. Just put yourself in the shoes of the Thousands whose mental, physical and financial health has been completely ruined, the children, the families ripped to shreds, careers, businesses, reputations destroyed.
    Now, how would you feel if you read "it is easily justified" etc.? or know that no one is filing any reports with the authoritiies to protect Scientology?

    If you do put an end to it in some other way, then fine.
    It's just that it needs to end yesterday and that, I think, is something you do understand. So, when Will it end, Mike? Would really like to know. thanks.
  5. thesneakster Member

    Re: OSA Program to shut Tory Christman down...

    Of course you must have detailed insider knowledge of actual statute crimes for which these two should be afraid, as well as detailed insider knowledge of what "skeletons" are buried that they are not revealing.

    Why haven't you gone to law enforcement with this information, amigo?

    This particular accusation (that Mike and Marty are holding out on "the real crimes") has been posted over and over and over from various ID's on every critic forum for a couple of years and never yet has the poster ever provided an explanation of how it is they know it for a true fact and why they haven't revealed the info to law enforcement themselves.

    As far as I am concerned, it's just an OSA propaganda button (meme or talking point) being pushed constantly to create or worsen negative opinion of these two persons.

    The Sneakster
  6. Re: OSA Program to shut Tory Christman down...

    Mike Rinder was brainwashed when he did those things he's admitted. If we try and punish Marty, Rinder or any other former Scientologists for what they did before that will stop them making admissions. Asking Rinder to make restitution is just what the OSA would really like us to do.
  7. Re: OSA Program to shut Tory Christman down...

    When we punish the exes for revealing information we discourage further revelations and we help the Scilons.
  8. Re: OSA Program to shut Tory Christman down...

  9. timthephoto Member

    Re: OSA Program to shut Tory Christman down...

    M & M did awful things whilst under mind control of Scientology, it's not restitution that's required of them, only the truth. Restitution from Scientolgy itself will surely follow that
  10. Anonymous Member

    Re: OSA Program to shut Tory Christman down...

    It's not an attack to ask for restitution; it's a constructive suggestion.
    The point of restitution is to atone for the wrongdoing and to demonstrate that the apology is sincere. It will benefit Rinder as much or more than it benefits Tory and is mostly symbolic. Restitution will allow Rinder to feel like he has undone the wrongs he did and proceed with a clean(er) slate.
  11. Re: OSA Program to shut Tory Christman down...

    Who is trying to punish them, we're just asking them to make the information public, rather than using it as another cult like control mechanism
  12. LocalSP Member

    Re: OSA Program to shut Tory Christman down...

    ^^^ this^^^
  13. Anonymous Member

    Re: OSA Program to shut Tory Christman down...

    I still can't get over the thought that if Marty had REAL documents, he would have posted them, in effect showing Cwazy Widdle Davy that he in fact had something on him. Otherwise it's just words typed on a blog.
  14. thesneakster Member

    Re: OSA Program to shut Tory Christman down...

    I would like to remind you folks that these two people are right in the middle of the Intelligence/PR/Legal combat zone with McSavage & OSA.

    McSavage is believed to have at least one-half billion (with a 'B') dollars in reserves to prosecute his side of this war.

    What do M&M have with which to fight that ?

    Information. It is both their armor and their ammunition. Information, when used as a weapon, can only be used once!

    Part of what M&M have in their favor is that McSavage doesn't actually know what all they know or whom, in his own camp, might be supplying information to his avowed enemies.

    Do you seriously propose these two simply publicize everything they know, regardless of whom - both inside and out - might be harmed or compromised ?

    I don't think so.

    The Sneakster
  15. Re: OSA Program to shut Tory Christman down...

    What I seriously propose is that they do the right thing and use what they know to take down the cult rather than focusing on their little bitch slapping cat fight with Miscavige himself.

    People's lives continue to be ruined and all they are doing is trying to cut off the nuts of Miscavige.

    As far as I'm concern Miscavige is just current Ronbot who happens to be heading Hubard's criminal cult at this moment, once he gets taken away in hand cuffs, the next Ronbot will take his place to perpetrate Hubbard's evil all over again to continue Hubbard's war against humanity.

    Rathbun and Rinder are so focused on sheltering Hubbard so they can continue the pay to pray enterprise of Hubbard's con game, that they conveniently forget about the people who's lives are being ruined at this very moment by Hubbard's cults through his various evil policies.
  16. Anonymous Member

    Re: OSA Program to shut Tory Christman down...

    Spoken like a true apologist. Your many posts on Marty's blog reveal your true colors, Sneak. Google: fiddle. Because Marty is playing you like one.
  17. Squirrel King Member

    Re: OSA Program to shut Tory Christman down...

    M & M are playing a game. They wish to save the Church and in doing so protect it and attempt to dislodge Miscavaige. Thus they will not reveal all, especially since they were accomplices in the abuses and crimes.
  18. Nancy Beazley Member

    Re: OSA Program to shut Tory Christman down...

    Gimme evidence, M&M! Apologize, M&M! Admit your sins, M&M!

    (M&M offer evidence, apologies, admit sins)

    See! Told you they were assholes!

  19. Anonymous Member

    Re: OSA Program to shut Tory Christman down...

    I'll grant you the validity about informaton vs $$, Sneakster, and not spillin all at once. And there's been a number of positives coming from M&M and that stands. But it would be beneficial to hear out all input and reasoning on the matter.

    I and others it seems have a problem with advocating to Not go to the authorities. That's been in writing. It is, I must agree, speculation that it's because of following Scientology Ethics codes and not wanting Scientology practices to be unders scrutiny.

    I've seen hundreds of statements from regular comments on his blog that spell out in detail crimes, fraud, financial irregularities, abuse, human rights violations, etc. etc. Not one or two, hundreds that could be packaged up to start up an investigation. I understand the tactic of just one person financially trying to bring a lawsuit is not so hot. I'm talking about putting All the reports up towards an investigation (and a raid would be just fine too).

    While some incidents would be outside statute of limitations, when obstruction of justice occurred, that nulls and voids those limits. Also, there's many more now that have been out a short time, 1 or 2 years.

    In other words, working With the Authorities, not As the "Authority" in charge of justice. I believe that is a very valid point and objection.

    Now if later on if it turns out that Mike and Marty are actually doing this (and of course couldn't disclose it presently) I'll be happy to apologize myself and send them a new fishing tackle box, with bows and pretty ribbons on it. And a Thank You card.
  20. mnql1 Member

    Re: OSA Program to shut Tory Christman down...

    AnonOrange tells the Riverside County Board of Supervisors about what the cult in Jeff Stone's district has been doing to attack Tory.

  21. Gottabrain Member

    Re: OSA Program to shut Tory Christman down...

    I think it is likely someone gave it to him recently but didn’t want to be revealed and Marty volunteered to take any flack for it. Not likely he sat on it. Dox are hard to come by. Marty is in touch with others who are in touch with “still ins” and “recently outs”.

    Yeh, that’s what I was thinking, too.

    See above. Maybe the source is still in. Marty would need Tory’s help for details to make that up and that wasn’t going to happen. Tory has always been considerate to the Indies and FZers, so no motive there.

    DeathHamster is right. OSA has long used illegal pcs for its work by asking them to do amends project. Saw it in 80 when I was Dir Income USGO and in 82-84 when I was Dir I&R AOLA, and I’ve posted this fact before. Illegal pc’s are desperate to receive Scientology services and will do about anything. GO/OSA periodically checks with the ethics officers and Senior C/Ses (counselling case supervisors) for illegal pc who needs amends projects.
  22. Anonymous Member

    Re: OSA Program to shut Tory Christman down...

    There is a lot of speculation about why Marty isn't posting dox. Possibly, it's because he's an asshole. I'll personally use Occam's Razor and assume his limited CoS education never taught him how computers work and he doesn't know how to ask for help. So, here you go, Marty.

    If your docs are paper, scan them to PDF. If you don't have a scanner, go to Kinko's. Adobe Professional has a redaction tool so you can block out all the parts that Tory didn't want you to reveal in public. Here's where you need to be careful - those redactions have not been burned into the image and any idiot can take them off. PRINT the PDF to another PDF. Make sure you're using the PDF printer, not saving as a PDF because that would be pointless. There you go, redacted PDF. Post it.

    Or, assuming you don't have the cash for Adobe, scan the pages as single page TIF. You can "redact" them just fine in Irfanview or, fuck it, MSPaint. Flatten your images and post them.

    Maybe your dox were never paper. Awesome, you have metadata. Save that file and don't touch it. Make a copy of it, open the copy, print it to PDF and start from there.

    Of course, Marty probably doesn't read here. Too bad.
  23. thesneakster Member

    Re: OSA Program to shut Tory Christman down...

    Ad hom. Non Responsive, too.

    The Sneakster
  24. Anonymous Member

    Re: OSA Program to shut Tory Christman down...

    ITT: silly infighting that doesn't move the ball down the field one fucking yard.
  25. xenubarb Member

    Re: OSA Program to shut Tory Christman down...

    We already knew they were assholes. What we're determining now is what degree of assholes they are.
  26. Ann O'Nymous Member

    Re: OSA Program to shut Tory Christman down...

  27. Anonymous Member

    Re: OSA Program to shut Tory Christman down...

  28. Anonymous Member

    Re: OSA Program to shut Tory Christman down...

    Blah blah blah - we know OPs have gone on for decades. It's pretty obvious the OSAbots have had a hard-on for Tory for quite some time. We haven't seen dox from Marty. Period. We already knows he doesn't know how to use a computer. I doubt someone who held that high of a position in a cult has no idea how to ask for help.

    As WWP/Enturb USED to say, Marty needs to DOX or GTFO. They're not too hard to come by, considering how many Anons have gotten from exes (and those still in) since 2008.

    BTW, wasn't it you who, just a day or so ago, was telling us how safe it is for critics because OSA was stretched thin? Now, you're saying people are desperate and willing to do OSA's bidding.

    Which is it?
  29. Gottabrain Member

    Re: OSA Program to shut Tory Christman down...

    I said there were some sections missing. This could be because this is a draft. But having trained on writing similar programs (not OSA/GO programs, mind you – I never had anything to do with that shit, though I’ve seen some programs – including the destruction of COSMOD (Church of Scientology Mission of Davis) which program was once filed by someone in the “USGO Debtor files”) and it was similar, and undoubtedly included subprograms that were extremely personal against individuals, such as this one.

    I was 3rd Class Missionaire trained as well as OEC and ESTO trained, for those of you who were in the SO. For the rest of you, it means I was more highly trained in administrative gobbledy-goop than Marty Rathbun, Mike Rinder, and 99% of all SO Members.

    Missing from this is:
    1) Some of the Targets are missing:
    A) One Primary Target on every program is to wordclear it. So this has been modified for someone to read it who is most likely not a Scientologist.
    B) It is missing most of the Production Targets and times. These are usually extremely specific. This may be because it is a draft, but I think it is also likely it is to protect the identity of the person who obtained this doc so the exact times and actions can’t be nailed down.
    C) “Repeating Target” is not a standard term for these programs. This term may have originated with DM, may be written this way to increase stats each time this target is done, or may be due to the fact the writer is himself untrained in Scn at writing programs. May also mean that this program was later broken down to sub-programs that specified exact actions each time this was done. Such programs can be revised even on a weekly basis and are extremely specific and I suspect this occurred.

    2) This says “Attorney-Client Privileged” at the top. That’s unusual and is an indication of where this doc originated from and that this draft version was given to an attorney or minimally to a company hired and under contract by the Church of Scientology, thus the target “Clear your actions with counsel beforehand.” This doc has omitted the routing of the names of the receivers and senders as well.
    Please also note that this target “18. Repeating Targets: Get the BBB complaints brought to the attention of SMC from people who have watched SMC’s advertisement on TV. (Write these letters from various parts of the US so it gives SMC the impression that this is everywhere and not a fixed location)
    This indicates criminal actions and false reports and we may be able to get FOI docs from BBB and investigations underway on this.
    There is no question in my mind the doc is legit. I hope this helps you Anons work with the info.
  30. Gottabrain Member

    Re: OSA Program to shut Tory Christman down...

    I am an outspoken critic who has been on national television in Australia twice. I have not yet been personally harassed outside the protests themselves, but I am also cautious about personal details and was fortunate in a few ways to have missed some of the worst goings-on earlier. That doesn't mean other protestors weren't harassed.

    I didn't say it was "SAFE". It is never SAFE. What I said is that it is SAFER than a few years ago FOR NEW CRITICS to come forward and that OSA SEEMS to now be focusing only on its most outspoken critics that it considers its biggest threats - or a way to get to its biggest critics. I've already warned about illegal pcs and I've already made several posts about that. I dealt with them when I was Dir I&R AOLA, I know the mindset.

    Dox that "Anons have gotten from Exes". My point, exactly. Do you really think the confidential dox not previously used in legal cases are easy for ex's to come by? You might try showing a bit of appreciation for the risks some of them have taken to produce some of these dox for you instead of brushing it off because so many worked so hard and took risks to produce them.

    And have you ignored the date on the dox re Tory?

    It is a personal choice for anyone who wants to put their face, name voice and neck out there. I have. Others have. Not all of us have been harassed to any great degree.
  31. DeathHamster Member

    Re: OSA Program to shut Tory Christman down...

    It's also possible that she frequently had no idea that they were trying to manipulate her into doing their dirty work. For example, one of the things that set her spewing on ARS was being mailed a receipt for a vibrator, supposedly from critic Dr. Touretzky. With a fair understanding of how the BabbleBrain functions, it would be an easy OSA op to print out a fake receipt and pop it in the mail. Cost: One stamp. Result: Instant spewstorm on ARS, upstat! Davey not pounding on them for a while, priceless!
  32. Gottabrain Member

    Re: OSA Program to shut Tory Christman down...

    ^^ That's certainly a realistic possibility, too. She would have been pretty easy to manipulate for someone who set out to do so.
  33. bAnon Member

    Re: OSA Program to shut Tory Christman down...

    Anyone here who doesn't know lost the game. Reset and reload.
  34. DeathHamster Member

    Re: OSA Program to shut Tory Christman down...

    Ha! It's not administrative gobbledy-goop. That bit is there to protect the document in case of a raid or request for disclosure. (Which is another reason that they route a lot of the dirty work through lawyers like Moxon.)

    Attorney-client privilege - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Answers to Questions About the Attorney-Client Privilege
  35. Gottabrain Member

    Re: OSA Program to shut Tory Christman down...

    ^^Thanks, DeathHamster. That's a change from when I was in. Earlier dox didn't say that.

    Any idea when C of S/OSA started putting that on the programs?
  36. Waco anonman Member

    Re: OSA Program to shut Tory Christman down...

    epic fail on the Co$'s part.
  37. DeathHamster Member

    Re: OSA Program to shut Tory Christman down...

    Actually, I have no idea. :) It's just that when I look at it, it's so obvious that it might as well have Clippy popping up: "I see that you're planning something illegal. Would you like me to protect the document with Attorney-Client Privilege?"

    It's exactly the same deal as claiming that all folders (including Ethics) are protected by confessional privilege.

  38. Gottabrain Member

    Re: OSA Program to shut Tory Christman down...

    That makes sense.
    But it wasn't done through '85 except on true legal dox. I'm certain of that - I still had occasional executive access to ethics files then and still saw GO/OSA stuff on occasion.
  39. DeathHamster Member

    Re: OSA Program to shut Tory Christman down...

    It smack of desperation. If they get caught abusing Attorney-Client Privilege like that, they'll open up a giant case of tentacle grape on themselves.

  40. Anonymous Member

    Re: OSA Program to shut Tory Christman down...

    Stupid question, is marty just being an smart ass in his reply above ?

    I would just find it very strange if this "document" came from some private stash the MR's had, because they both claim to have left in a hurry. I doubt that they took the time to dig thru and find a minor critic's black PR file from 2006 as they turned and walked out the door for the last time, then waited thru three years of Chanology and an extra two years prior to doing anything with it.

    In 2006 Tory who was pretty well known among critics but was hardly a "leader of the pack" before her You Tube Channel went up in 2008. (Or so it seemed when WBM introduced her to us.) But now it is very fortunate that the most widely recognized exScientologist/ critic in the world just happens to be the subject of these docs-less docs. seems to me like there is something more than just docs missing from this puzzle.

    It's hard to not speculate. For all I know it could have hypothetically been smuggled out by someone with computer access to this type of thing who is about to blow or has blown. It doesn't matter if it is real the MR's are only releasing pretty minor stuff, and only if it promotes their cause. If this is real, I can't believe they have had access to it for very long. And I don't really see how it helps us.

    PS Marty, You don't need to scan documents in and then black out information with the computer, you can make a copy and use a black marker, then scan the blacked out copy into the computer. If you are extra paranoid, you can cut out the parts of the copy you don't want seen with an razor before you scan it.

    If you have black ops on other critics I am sure they would love to know about it. Many of them can be PM'd via critic message boards like this one.

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