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OSA surveillance camera on Mike Rinder's home; OSA collecting his garbage

Discussion in 'Independent Scientology' started by Anonymous, Dec 18, 2012.

  1. Random guy Member

    They know they are being watched, they aren't that stupid. The same publicity that protects facefagged anons from being harassed also protect the M&Ms. We'll likely (hopefully) never again see things like those Paulettte Cooper experienced. We (yes, we, take a second to congratulate yourself anons) have taken away from them perhaps their most potent weapon: Their ability to isolate people.
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  2. Anonymous Member

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  3. Anonymous Member

    OMG - the government is OSA!!!!
    • Dumb Dumb x 1
  4. pelagic Member

    I don't understand why there is a conflict here, it just seems win-win to me.

    The M&Ms have a reasonable profile in the media, so this further evidence of the cults practice of fair game will likely get picked up and reported. Well documented cases of fair game without much work required on anons part. Especially interesting story when its noted they used used to run these ops when they were in.

    Plus, it's not like some innocent person is being persecuted here. These guys expect it, and probably know how to look after themselves. I don't think they need or are asking for backup.

    It's just plain wrong that an organization hiding under "religious freedom" and tax exemption should be doing these things. It's only going to end badly...

    Maybe it will result in some more depo's and more evidence coming to light. Maybe this it what it will take to wake these guys up. Maybe their followers will see it and start to realize what these guys where up to when they where on Davey's team. Maybe they will realize that this is the natural extension of Hubbard's policies. Maybe I expect too much.

    Either way, it makes me laugh. That's more than they ever did for me when I was in.
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  5. Anonymous Member

    No OSA are amateurs the government are effective spies and assassins
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  6. Anonymous Member

    These antics are all part of the sick system of Scientology, and this Spy vs. Spy shit is nothing but a grudge match induced pissing contest. I have seen nothing here worth getting worked up over, just a bunch of overinflated egos throwing rocks at each other on a playground. If I can use some of their actions to make point against Scientology, I will avail myself of that opportunity. If the CoS elevates the severity of their attack and does something heinous like run Marty over with a car, I will assist in the effort to get DM into jail, no matter how many layers of lawyers and PIs he uses. Until then, the Ms/DM smackdown is nothing but an amusing sideshow to be enjoyed like the silly catfight that it is. I just don't want us to let these assclowns to divert too many brain cycles away from the larger target.

    IMO the greatest power Anonymous is that the Cult knows WE ARE WATCHING.... and waiting.... and it will only take one slip up to bring David Miscavige's house of cards tumbling down on top of him. One bad move, and Anonymous will be swarming all over him like flies on shit. And yes, maybe even send him to prison. And he knows it. The days of Scientology being able to keep their dirty little secrets quiet are OVER.
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  7. Anonymous Member

    LOL
    inb4 Benghazi
  8. Anonymous Member

    Everybody responds to different things. For some, it's disconnection. For others, it's the financial scam or the crazy tech mind fuck. For me, it's fair game. Because all the other bad things are made worse by their dirt digging/intimidation/extortion racket. So I want to fight Scientology's Fair Game. That's the moral principle that drives me.

    The CoS needs to bend over backwards at this point to prove basic human decency toward its critics. So merely avoiding illegal activities isn't good enough. I want to see those Clearwater handlers offering to get 612 a comfy chair to sit in if her feet get tired.
  9. Anonymous Member

    That's because you don't like the people who are the target of Fair Game. If it were anyone else, you'd be upset about it, I think.
  10. Anonymous Member

    You've a better chance of spotting a live dodo.
  11. Anonymous Member

    Yeah I know. Scientologists can't separate arguments about ideas from power struggles with people. A concept like, "loyal opposition" doesn't make sense in Scientology.
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  12. Anonymous Member

    That will never happen, because that would require a total institutional overhaul. The CoS is an amoral institution, founded on amoral principles. It is unsalvageable and must be dismantled or just allowed to collapse under its own mismanagement. The only thing keeping the CoS from illegalities, threats, bullying, infliction of bodily harm and intimidation is the fear of exposure and the consequences thereof.

    Honestly, if they were smart, they WOULD offer 612 a comfy chair, and would have grandmas out there offering her, AMA and Xander cookies and milk, cuz it's harder to be motivated to pee in the cornflakes of nice people. But they are not smart enough to make friends, so they just keep on acting stupid and pissing her off, so she keeps coming at them with all her 612-ness, day after day after day.....
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  13. Anonymous Member

    Sorry, I don't see compassion on the Tone Scale.
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  14. Anonymous Member

    If it were people who weren't fully capable of handling it themselves. The Ms don't need nor want my help.

    Please also note that, while I may not be helping them, I am also not hurting them or standing in their way. I have simply decided they don't need my assistance. They are doing just fine on their own.
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  15. Anonymous Member

    M&M are useful for running interference. If they ever became a real threat, we already know what to do.
  16. Anonymous Member

    But the focus needs to be on the CoS, not the MRs.

    Forget about the MRs. Nobody is even going to remember their names. Just tell people that CoS Fair Games critics, and some of the ways they do this are... then use the handy examples that just happen to involve the MRs. But the targets might have been anyone else.

    Whether a target of Fair Game wants or needs "our" help is irrelevant. Keep the focus on the CoS.
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  17. Anonymous Member

    I would like to see another "Wild Card". Like some of the former high ranking associates that are now locked down somewhere at Gold Base on RPF doing kitchen clean up duty. Some fresh voices should really say, "enough of this shit i'm leaving" and join the party.
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  18. Anonymous Member

    There is a grain of truth to this.
    Also, Debbie Cook.
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  19. tigeratbay Member

    I don't believe that. Yes with ex's they have to maybe be more careful now, but they have other enemies and they will continue using the "tech".
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  20. tippytoe Member

    Oh no, now you've gone and done it....Hey, Six, try and stay calm while you rip him a new a-hole, if only for you own health! ;)
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  21. Anonymous Member

    There's a picture of some "where are they now" in another thread i can't remember.
    someone please cross post that pic, because those are the guise we want.
    Mithoff? I have that name wrong.
  22. wolfbane Member

    While the first part of ^^This is a valid point, I would disagree with the latter remarks. I have a hard time seeing the correlation between the real extortion going on with the aggressive regging, forced ethics handling that eat up monies on account, the coerced donations and the repeated training/processing measures that active members endure being one and the same as the dirt digging/intimidation of fair game on ex-members and critics.

    Fair Game and extortion are two different issues. Fair Game was previously used to silence criticism from external sources, but it doesn't work that way anymore. Extortion was and is all about filling the cult's coffers with money bilked internally from their active members.

    Yeah but what IS relevant is what needs the most attention going forward.

    With all the different things wrong with CoS, I look at what is the worst in terms of what can be prosecuted the best, what needs MORE exposure and what is still escalating such that it makes things unbearable for current members. When you compare what happened to Paulette Cooper, Wollersheim, Gerry Armstrong and the LMT gang to the Squirrel Busters and recent Freedumb magazine stupidity it is readily apparent the negative attention the cult has gotten in recent years has taken a big bite our Fair Game. So much so, Fair Game is all bark and no bite these days. So there are far bigger issues that deserve more focus and require far more attention.

    Plus when you look at current Fair Game practices quantitatively - with so many former members speaking out, the critics who were never in are mostly ignored sans the journalists like Lawrence Wright and the high traffic media outlets that get a lot of exposure. Even then it's just silly mud slinging and weak swings taken at the easily targeted low hanging fruit. We don't see the true "enemy" attack mentality that was prominent in past years where Hubbard's mandate of Fair Game was followed to the letter in regards to: "May be deprived of property or injured by any means by any Scientologist without any discipline of the Scientologist. May be tricked, sued or lied to or destroyed."

    ^^This stuff is far more important than OSA's silly smear tactics, and as much as M&M bug us they still hold the record for getting these type of stories out there in recent years.

    While the surveillance, trash picking and the occasional Black PR slime posted on the internet still falls under Fair Game, we just do not see the level of atrocity that was done in the past under the name of Fair Game. They haven't even sued any of the Indies yet, Squib videos have been taken down and the church settled with Debbie Cook before pre-trial proceedings got underway.

    Additionally, when you look at the lawfare done to Sparrow, Francois and AMA that was directly related to protest activities - those cases did NOT play out to the cult's favor: RFW got stripped due to socal depos, Moxon sightings are practically extinct since Sparrow's case put twisted up lies in the public record, Luke Lirot had an easy win getting AMA off the hook and now the Flag protest handlers change so often it's hard to keep up.

    Added lulz, in Moxon's absence - tada - Elliot Abelson was recently dug out of the woodwork and sent out on the street. So plenty of signs show that the increased scrutiny from non-member critics has taken a big toll and the church can only muster weakened Fair Game resources for the bigger targets that get press attention where they are careful to NOT go as far as they did in decades past. Hell, they don't even take Fair Game as far as they did a few short years ago when C&D letters flew thick and OSA shills didn't hide behind remote cameras but made personal appearances at employment offices & in local neighborhoods.

    End result - OSA has a limp dick. They have all but lost the Fair Game battle (LOL birdhouse tech). The less fear attached to it in the days ahead the sooner it will DIAF.

    Disconnection on the other hand, is on the rise. The more family members that become disenchanted with the other abuses means the more families are split apart. People who leave the church speak out sooner nowadays, and the more vocal Exes/Indies that have come forward in recent times speak of being hit with disconnection immediately, before they even consider speaking out, and it often backfires so badly such that the disconnection makes them speak out.

    Debbie Cook's letter exposed that the extortion style sales pushes didn't end with GAT, and GAT II roll out is right around the corner. Plus we've seen endless promos that show FSO is selling courses/services at Flag and on the Freewinds that are NOT Advanced Org level stuff on the bridge. The Ideal Org donation campaigns are so out of control they even "re-dedicated" Buffalo Ideal Org in July 2012 that had originally launched in 2004-05. Therefore, the money grubbing extortion tactics is never-ending, and it is the most often stated reason members begin to realize they need to GTFO of the church with the instant threats of disconnection sealing the deal.

    Another far bigger concern is the sucking in of children that the leaked promos shows as still a prominent recruiting mechanism. While the increased presence of SO in regular orgs due to lack of staff means more SO recruiting is essential to the church's survival.

    The attention Scientology gets makes it harder for raw meat recruiting of Joe Blow on the street from being sucked in by a personality test. However, that increased attention has NOT stopped the kids of long-term public scilons from being sucked into the Delphi schools that seldom close down. The cadet org gang of kids in Clearwater was also fairly large as Xander's recent vid showed. Young faces getting off the bus at flag are also still readily apparent in other Clearwater vids and the Freewinds is still pushing the kids-only events hard. So while the Ideal Orgs die on the vine, the Sea Org where the worst shit happens is still pulling young people in.

    Yes Fair Game is bad no matter who it is done to. But as M&M have shown in the OP ITT - what is being done is easily spotted and exposed. Meanwhile the "other bad things" are not being diminished in the same way nor getting exposed to the same extent. So when push comes to shove - it is those other bad things that need more attention, more scrutiny and more pressured applied. With so many bad things to target Scientology over, eventually the size, prevalence and the nature of those targets needs taken into account.

    ^^Sage. Critics should let the Indies hype up the crippled Fair Game tactics and milk it for all it's worth all they want - Marty & crew has that angle covered quite well. For everyone else not in his camp, there are bigger fish to fry (/cough-cough oh hai human trafficking investigation /cough) that we should be wasting our time & bandwidth on.

    Another added bonus - if we stop focusing so much wasted breath on M&Ms fair game cat fights, Hobson and the other Marty-lover lurkers will be far more likely to crawl out of our asses, GTFO of WWP and go on their merry way because we will STOP pulling them in. (Hi Hobson! Too much Hobson makes Sneakster an annoying kawksucker altho I agree you ain't so bad to have around once in a RARE while.)

    tl;dr - Plox STFU about M&M already. They got a their own Fair Game attacks under control and there is nothing we can do there that they aren't already doing themselves sans maybe a Freedumb Magazine counter attack website. (HintHint to the Indy lurkers & Fair Game bawl babies - GO make one and stop giving a shit what Anons say about Marty. There will ALWAYS be a faction here who despises M&M no matter what happens.)

    When M&M or their chief lackeys get sued, land in jail on bogus charges, are deprived of their property/livelihood or a pet dies suspiciously - then that is different matter. Until then, there are bigger, uglier issues to target.
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  23. Cudgel Member


    Nods head.
  24. Cudgel Member

    Once the trash is out on the curb it's no longer the property of the person that generated the trash. Through contractual agreement with a waste hauler it becomes theirs (the waste hauler) to dispose of as they see fit. Some city ordinances state that it becomes the property of the municipality that arranges for the disposal of the trash. In this case it's Waste Management Inc. that's the offended party when the driver sells the trash to the OSA, not Rinder.

    We used this fact to just remove trash to go through without the need to obtain a warrant: as far as the originator of the trash was concerned, they had thrown it out and lost any property/privacy rights to whatever was in the bin/bag.
  25. Cudgel Member

    And who would know better than the M&M show? They can't/won't comment truthfully for a very specific reason: the lack of a statute of limitations on murder.
  26. DeathHamster Member

    Don't judge OSA by the ones sent after M&M. Nobody with more skill than a drunken frat boy is going to be assigned to that. It's meant to be noisy. If they get caught with their bird spy house or stealing trash, that's just part of the "we're watching you" message.
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  27. Anonymous Member

    Amazing that scientology calls itself a "church" and yet employs people to sift through the trash of their percieved enemies.

    Rats, cockroaches and OSA have so much in common.
    • Agree Agree x 2
  28. Anonymous Member

    Sunlight is the best disinfectant. If people are free to speak out without fear, many problems can be corrected. That's why the Fair Game issue matters so much.

    Scientology has allies with their own investigators. Many help to protect alternative medicine practitioners by running dead agent ops against their critics. You aren't going to hear about these activities because they aren't meant to be overt.

    Evidence of a recent overt op meant to intimidate a critic is useful, even if it's not as dramatic as Paulette Cooper. The more the public are aware of Fair Game as a real activity, the better.

    Tell your co-workers that Scientology tries to ruin people who speak out against it. Tell them yes, Fair Game is still going on even today. Then use one of those videos as evidence. If people can imagine themselves facing the same kind of surveillance simply because they said something critical in a public forum, it will have an impact.
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  29. Anonymous Member

    If all Fair Game activities were illegal, law enforcement could address them and protest would be unnecessary.
  30. thesneakster Member

    This person not only is not me they aren't my designated interpreter. Neither are they even a good parody.

    Michael A. Hobson
    Independent Scientologist
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  31. Anonymous Member

    My opinion is fuck Marty, fuck Rinder as they deserve whatever they get; specially Marty with his destruction of evidence on the death of a poor young woman. I know the bastard, I have met him. He has no remorse. He faired gamed people. I love Karma.
  32. Anonymous Member

    Yep cops invented going through people's trash a friend who was being watched threw away some rotten fish in a dumpster. The surveillance team rolled up and told him to get it out, he told them to shove it go get it yourself. So the scumbag cops had to climb in the dumpster filled with rotten fish to get absolutely nothing dumb cops.
  33. anonymous612 Member

    Lol, fail harder, Rinder doesn't live in Clearwater, he lives in Tarpon Springs. You want to find a "BAWW THE TSPD ARE CORRUPT" video, not a "BAWW THE CPD IS OWNED BY SCIENTOLOGY" video.

    Actually, they used to. Not literally, of course, but Peter Mansell's (chief king of the Flag OSAfags) original strategy was to sweettalk us about his days as an anti-war protester in New Zealand. But we trolled him anyway and he can't hold his temper to save his life, so it only took one or two cases of him flatout trying to fucking kill someone before the anons all went "HAHA fuck you and your buddy buddy shit, sheepfucker."
    You'd think they'd realize this, after how effective the reverse has been against Scientology.
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  34. tigeratbay Member

    Wolfbane, my paw to you. Your long post was excellent. Most edible, filling and satisfiying!
    • Agree Agree x 3
  35. Anonymous Member

    Among my friends and co-workers, I don't get much traction with how the CoS treats its own members. People seem to feel that anyone who joins a cult has made their bed.

    I do get a little bet of interest in the CoS' efforts to silence critics. Because people view that as Scientology fucking with the non-Scientology world.

    I don't say, "This guy is a Scientologist outside the church and look at what they're doing to him," because saying that someone is a Scientologist immediately puts them in the "they made their bed" camp. I say, "this guy is an ex-member."

    I have zero interest in helping the MRs. I want to inform people about why Scientology is bad for us, the wogs. Hopefully such efforts will ruin Scientology, which will make the MRs sad, and that will be nice for the people who want bad things to happen to them.
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  36. rickybobby Member

    I understand. I like to explain how they are recruiting the young people. I have encountered them passing out their shit right next to the local college campus, obviously targeting teenagers who have no idea what they are about.
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  37. anonymous612 Member

    Play the "What about the children who were born into it?" card. Works for me every time. Our main scifag legalwhore locally is a thirdgen Sea Org. It's not like there was ever a chance for her to not grow up psychologically fucked.
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  38. RolandRB Member


    We can brainwash faster than the Russians (20 secs to total amnesia against three years to slightly confused loyalty).»
    L. Ron Hubbard, HCO Technical Bulletin of 22 July 1956
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  39. Anonymous Member

    Yeah I've tried that angle. They think it's wacky to put Suri on the cans. But they accept that it's normal to be born into a religion, and if you're not that into it, you can leave when you leave home. Most of them are Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormons, Catholics, and Evangelical Christians, and they feel strongly that parents should be able to raise children in whatever religion they want.

    So of course I also try to explain that Scientology isn't like most religions. There's no God; it's more self-help than anything. But this conversation dies because generally people have mild curiosity about the beliefs but don't really care. And the idea of reincarnation seems to make Scientology a religion in their minds, so we're back to parents being able to raise kids how they see fit, assuming no frank child abuse.

    I talk about Scientology's mania for "expansion," and their hard sell techniques, and how Hubbard wanted Scientology in every part of society until it became the basis for government: Narconon for healthcare, Applied Scholastics for education, WISE for business, Volunteer Ministers for emergency response, Drug Free Marshalls to influence police, and lots of fronts for artists and entertainers. Then I talk about the Guardian's Office and Operation Snow White. People don't know why they never heard about this before, and they find it hard to believe.

    The YouTube of Miscavige's plans to obliterate psychiatry makes an impression, mostly because of the large crowd cheering.

    I try to have specific Fair Game stories, like the boyfriend of a writer in New York who was actually a Scientology plant who stole her stationary to write a bomb threat, so she was about to go to prison until an FBI raid revealed the plot to frame her. That's interesting. But what really catches attention is any evidence of Fair Game going on today.

    People at work think I'm obsessed and they tease me. They say, "Did you hear that new manager they hired is a Scientologist?" Lol. So I have to focus on current events that have impact else I dilute the message that Scientology is dangerous to us, the wog world.

    These people, they don't care about "Freezone" or "Independent Scientology." Those internal politics are way tl;dr. They don't even remember the name, "David Miscavige." He's just, "the leader."
  40. Anonymous Member

    Superficial niceness isn't the same as a genuine respect for honest criticism and being able to separate the message from the messenger. When you can do that it is possible to be decent to people who disagree with you. You might think they're ignorant, misguided, foolish, self-deluded, or wrong. But you don't have to view them as sub-human or toxic, provided they're able to extend to you the same basic human decency.
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