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OTVII / VIII - Murder & Attempted Suicide in Colo (Fowler Software Design)

Discussion in 'Media' started by _You_, Jan 1, 2010.

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  1. OTBT Member

    Re: OTVII / VIII - Murder & Attempted Suicide in Colo (Fowler Software Design)

    I worked in a WISE company for many years. Although I haven't seen these folders with my own eyes, my boss, an OT VII, the owner of the WISE company, told me once that he kept a file system similar to what Vir described. It was part of his "Ethics Files" on employees.

    Most of the regular employees were wogs, although most of senior management were scientologists, and followed Hubbard Admin policies.
  2. Re: OTVII / VIII - Murder & Attempted Suicide in Colo (Fowler Software Design)

    asshole-1.png.gif
  3. grebe Member

    Re: OTVII / VIII - Murder & Attempted Suicide in Colo (Fowler Software Design)

    I think we agree. "Falsifiability" is relevant to predictions.
    Your examples (non-Scientologist pulled the trigger, senior Scientologists told Fowler not to do it, gun went off accidentally) speak to motive. Scientology is implicated if Fowler pulled the trigger thinking that he was serving Scientology's objectives.

    An investigation into Fowler's motivation to kill Ciancio may not be necessary to convict him of this crime. And investigations cost money and inconvenience people.

    So, though I would love for investigators to look through Fowler Software's records, I'm not going to get my hopes up.

    If it seemed that Ciancio was killed because of what he knew and might have said, that might make people curious to learn more about the business. Outside of that possibility, I'm not sure this situation is relevant to our cause.
  4. OTBT Member

    Re: OTVII / VIII - Murder & Attempted Suicide in Colo (Fowler Software Design)

    Continuing on from my earlier post, pretty sure my WISE boss described a "naughty" folder, separate from the "regular" ethics folder.

    I'm Ethics trained. I'm familiar with Ethics folders and their contents. What my boss described to me was definitely squirrel.

    I disconnected from my old boss and company years ago, I sure as hell am not going to go back and ask about it.
  5. Anon123456 Member

    Re: OTVII / VIII - Murder & Attempted Suicide in Colo (Fowler Software Design)

    this is what happened:

    tom went to starbucks and got a mocha latte.

    he walked through the front door of his job, last day. hes supposed to get some green. he gets shit and is told that "there is nothing left Tom, im sorry the church has taken it all"

    tom puts his shitty coffee down and says " you fuckin kidding me?

    rex says "im serious now go home"

    tom says "wtf?"

    rex says "Bang, Bang"

    tom perishes.


    rex feels bad that this mind controlling cult put him in a position to kill a good friend.

    he puts the gun to his chin and recites KSW.


    bang

    (face splatter)


    and here we are.
  6. TinyDancer Member

    Re: OTVII / VIII - Murder & Attempted Suicide in Colo (Fowler Software Design)

    Look, I'm sorry I rejected your love. You just came on too strong for me. I need my space.
  7. Re: OTVII / VIII - Murder & Attempted Suicide in Colo (Fowler Software Design)

    Trufax?
  8. Anon123456 Member

    Re: OTVII / VIII - Murder & Attempted Suicide in Colo (Fowler Software Design)


    yeah all trufax except he got a grande not a venti
  9. grebe Member

    Re: OTVII / VIII - Murder & Attempted Suicide in Colo (Fowler Software Design)

    Is ridicule the best way to discourage moonbattery?

    Some other options:
    - ask how the speculative idea might be confirmed.
    - ask how the speculative idea might be falsified.
    - ask how knowing whether the idea is true or false will change our plans.
  10. Anon123456 Member

    Re: OTVII / VIII - Murder & Attempted Suicide in Colo (Fowler Software Design)

    i stopped right here ....the answer is yes.
  11. Sissy Lala Member

    Re: OTVII / VIII - Murder & Attempted Suicide in Colo (Fowler Software Design)

    Is that part of the "investigative mode" TD keeps telling us we're in?
  12. Re: OTVII / VIII - Murder & Attempted Suicide in Colo (Fowler Software Design)

    Is it next week yet?
  13. Shinythings Member

    Re: OTVII / VIII - Murder & Attempted Suicide in Colo (Fowler Software Design)

    fowlertroll.jpg
  14. Sissy Lala Member

    Re: OTVII / VIII - Murder & Attempted Suicide in Colo (Fowler Software Design)


    We need a profiler from "Criminal Minds" to assist in the investigating. I nominate him:
    shemar_0.jpg
  15. ARC Member

    Re: OTVII / VIII - Murder & Attempted Suicide in Colo (Fowler Software Design)

    After arguing with conspiracy theorists (you know, anti-vaxxers, truthers), I find that making them logically explain their arguments can work until a point when I make them realize that their position is one of an essentially religiously held faith. While some are happy to acknowledge this and continue living with the conspiracy theory, some are a bit shaken by this and start to wake up.

    Ridicule can work too, as long as you ridicule the idea and not the person. But this only works anonymously, you shouldn't take this approach when confronting a conspiracy theorist or cult meber in real life - a colleague or family member for example. They might choose their idiocy is more important than you are, and disconnect from you voluntarily.

    Another approach which is fun is to pretend to agree with them and make them realize how silly they sound by mirroring their views.

    Anyway, exit counseling and interventions is not easy, but you can read up on it and at least learn what NOT to do.
  16. Re: OTVII / VIII - Murder & Attempted Suicide in Colo (Fowler Software Design)

    Happy camper ^^^
  17. Shinythings Member

    Re: OTVII / VIII - Murder & Attempted Suicide in Colo (Fowler Software Design)

    anatroll.jpg
  18. grebe Member

    Re: OTVII / VIII - Murder & Attempted Suicide in Colo (Fowler Software Design)

    separated at birth
  19. Re: OTVII / VIII - Murder & Attempted Suicide in Colo (Fowler Software Design)

    anatroll.jpg

    Looks like some nipple tweakin goin on.
  20. Anon123456 Member

    Re: OTVII / VIII - Murder & Attempted Suicide in Colo (Fowler Software Design)

    make scientology unpopular and we win. when tom cruise cant make a movie without being laughed at,... then we win. ridicule has and always will always win the court of public opinion.
  21. Sponge Member

    Re: OTVII / VIII - Murder & Attempted Suicide in Colo (Fowler Software Design)

    fowlertrollfail2.jpg
  22. Anonymous Member

    Re: OTVII / VIII - Murder & Attempted Suicide in Colo (Fowler Software Design)

    If Scientology isn't involved in this in the slightest, I guarantee you they'll do their damndest to cover it up anyway, and consider it "practice."
  23. Re: OTVII / VIII - Murder & Attempted Suicide in Colo (Fowler Software Design)

    Hey, since you have experience in this matter, how long ago was your last involvement in WISE? What was the promoted WISE solution for when employees leave the company, be it on good terms or bad terms.

    We know that Narconon at least has a habit of not giving their employees their final pay check.
  24. Thundersalmon Member

    Re: OTVII / VIII - Murder & Attempted Suicide in Colo (Fowler Software Design)

    [IMG]

    They know already?!?
  25. Obi-Wan-anon Member

    Re: OTVII / VIII - Murder & Attempted Suicide in Colo (Fowler Software Design)

    There are actually that many Scientologists?
  26. Anonymous Member

    Re: OTVII / VIII - Murder & Attempted Suicide in Colo (Fowler Software Design)

    'Scientology. like guns, helps peoples!"
  27. XenuEtrawl Member

    Re: OTVII / VIII - Murder & Attempted Suicide in Colo (Fowler Software Design)

    In my experience, with an attempted suicide, it will probably go liek this:

    Enter OSA. In a case this major, possibly accompanied by a legal type, and almost certainly accompanied by a notary. (The notary may be from Department 3 of the local org, they often become notaries to deal with things such as this.)
    Rex gets told that, because he was sedated (psych drugs, oh noes!) he is now an "illegal PC," and can't go on in scientology.
    Rex gets handed a huge pile of releases, which say that he's completely responsible for all of his own actions, and that scientology never did anything bad to him, or caused him to do anything bad. It also naturally releases every CoS person and corporate entity imaginable from any liability. Another paper says that Rex will get his money back for all uncompleted services, and be expelled from the CoS. There may be an affidavit which says that scientology has nothing to do with his criminal or suicidal acts.
    Rex signs them, because he's still a zombie, and still can be persuaded that it's "the greatest good for the greatest number of dynamics."
    OSA takes a look at Rex's ID, collects their papers, and notarizes them.
    OSA hands Rex a check refunding him for all services which haven't been completed. It may have language on the back which specifies that endorsement indicates a complete settlement of all claims between the parties.
    OSA departs, leaving Rex twisting in the wind.

    A variant which might come up would include backdating most of the paperwork to make it look like he'd already been refunded and expelled before the suicide attempt took place. They may be afraid to try that with criminal prosecution imminent, but if OSA ever says that he was an ex member at the time of the crime, you can expect that that's what happened.
  28. timthephoto Member

  29. grebe Member

    Re: OTVII / VIII - Murder & Attempted Suicide in Colo (Fowler Software Design)

    But if Rex is OT7, he went "clear" a long time ago. How can he be a "PC" again?

    Do psych drugs attract body thetans? I need to know, cuz I may have a plan...
  30. Don Carlo Member

    Re: OTVII / VIII - Murder & Attempted Suicide in Colo (Fowler Software Design)

    Impressive compilation, timthephoto.
  31. Anonymous Member

    Re: OTVII / VIII - Murder & Attempted Suicide in Colo (Fowler Software Design)

    I think the person being audited is always considered a Pre Clear no matter where they are on the bridge. (even if they are a post clear) it just sounds nicer than "sucker".
  32. WTF Member

    Re: OTVII / VIII - Murder & Attempted Suicide in Colo (Fowler Software Design)

    I ended my WISE involvement in the early 90s. I don't recall that WISE had a specific program. (my immediate "Senior" was SO Commanding Officer WISE West US-- though I was not really given any orders--was pretty much treated as an independent entity with a working relationship)

    My own policy was to have them sign a simple form stating the amount of their final pay, acknowledgment that this amount is all that is due and acknowledgment that keys had been returned. My own usual routine was to try to do a simple handling of any upsets/part on good terms. (At one time I even had the local ex-Guardian [aka 'OSA'] handling this function for me--LOL)
  33. XenuEtrawl Member

    Re: OTVII / VIII - Murder & Attempted Suicide in Colo (Fowler Software Design)

    Sorry, "illegal pre-OT."
    I honestly don't know, I don't remember ever encountering a satisfactory explanation for Hubbard's reasoning behind that. If the central nervous system is just a stupid switchboard, and the purif works, what's the big deal? Ban someone for 5 years of heavy prolixin usage, okay. But for a few days of being sedated? That's as absurd as banning people from the SO for taking LSD, but not for taking various other psychedelics. All dogma, no science.

    But in Rex's case, that won't really matter, because they're unloading him for PR reasons. If he hadn't done anything else but get sedated, they might minimize it and try to work around it. Especially if he had a lot of money.

    Maybe one of the Class VI-VIII C/S types out there know the answer to that. Did Hubbard ever say anything more than that psych drugs = resistive cases?
  34. OTBT Member

  35. Anonymous Member

    Re: OTVII / VIII - Murder & Attempted Suicide in Colo (Fowler Software Design)

    SWAT closed down the building as a crime scene after they made entry and secured it, thus preventing any persons from tampering with evidence. IMO, the police seized Fowler's laptop as well as the victim's and are scouring e-mails between them.

    Here is a hypothetical: What if evidence concerning financial irregularities or motive emerges in Fowler-authored KR's that are located in his laptop?

    Question for attorneys: Can the Cult argue priest-penitent privilege in this case if relevant evidence is found in Fowler-authored KR's? Can the Cult move to quash evidence found in KR's?
  36. grebe Member

    Re: OTVII / VIII - Murder & Attempted Suicide in Colo (Fowler Software Design)

    May provide a reason to seek a warrant allowing a search all of Fowler Software communications and financial records.

    Then if we is lucky...

    Evidence of illegal transactions with Scientology Inc. -->FBI -->big investigation-->precious WIN
  37. WTF Member

    Re: OTVII / VIII - Murder & Attempted Suicide in Colo (Fowler Software Design)

    KRs and Ethics folders are not priest-penitent privileged per scn practice.
  38. muldrake Member

    Re: OTVII / VIII - Murder & Attempted Suicide in Colo (Fowler Software Design)

    "The purpose of subsection (1)(c) is to protect an accused from the indirect violation of his state constitutional right against self-incrimination." Ferrell v. Vogt, 161 Colo. 549, 423 P.2d 844 (1967). If it's a Fifth Amendment right, of some sort, then it simply means that the priest can't be compelled to turn over such communications. If the police found it on a search of the laptop pursuant to a warrant or other legal justification, it can probably be introduced as evidence, if it's relevant. If there's nothing relevant there, it can't be. Assuming that anything of the sort exists, which is pure speculation, and assuming further that if such documents exist, that they're even remotely relevant, which is more speculation.

    The actual statute:

    "(c) A clergy member, minister, priest, or rabbi shall not be examined without both his or her consent and also the consent of the person making the confidential communication as to any confidential communication made to him or her in his or her professional capacity in the course of discipline expected by the religious body to which he or she belongs." C.R.S. 13-90-107(1)(c) (2009).

    There would also be a question of exactly what kind of communication it was. A KR doesn't sound very much like a normal confession.

    Anyway, the issue is purely academic at this point. It's more likely the laptop contains financial information which might be relevant in explaining Fowler's motives, if he's the shooter, which seems pretty likely.

    And even more importantly, even if they could make a bogus argument such communications would otherwise be covered by the privilege, it wouldn't apply to stuff seized off Fowler's laptop. It would only apply if they actually tried to get Scientology "clergy" on the stand to testify.

    They did try to make the priest-penitent argument in the Lisa McPherson case about her auditing and ethics folders. It didn't fly.
  39. OTBT Member

    Re: OTVII / VIII - Murder & Attempted Suicide in Colo (Fowler Software Design)

    NO.

    WISE claims to be secular, so there is no priest-penitent privilege.
  40. Ann O'Nymous Member

    Re: OTVII / VIII - Murder & Attempted Suicide in Colo (Fowler Software Design)

    My 2 cents about the on-going discussion:
    - Nobody wants the scientology angle to be overlooked. It might not be part of the case, but this can be ruled out only after it has been properly investigated.
    - One should not forget that most people - including investigators and judges - have a limited understanding of scientology. So, our effort should concentrate on provide them with a summary of elements about scientology that could have potential relevance to the case. The document put together achieves that to a certain extend, even if the form could be improved, IMHO.
    - Official investigations serve also as a reality check. Remember John Travolta admitting Jett's autism both in his statement to the police and his testimony.
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