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OTVII / VIII - Murder & Attempted Suicide in Colo (Fowler Software Design)

Discussion in 'Media' started by _You_, Jan 1, 2010.

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  1. PodPeople Member

    Re: OTVII / VIII - Murder & Attempted Suicide in Colo (Fowler Software Design)

    I'd put my money on that (ok, all $5). Thinking, hoping Cianco family can provide for wife and kids in meantime.
  2. pooks Member

    Re: OTVII / VIII - Murder & Attempted Suicide in Colo (Fowler Software Design)


    It's 500 dollars to 6000 dollars for yearly membership based on the size of your business.

    The CEO circle is for the big companies run by Scientologists such as Craig Jensen/Executive Software.

    The CEO circle is just a status in the membership rankings for WISE.

    Scn assigns a status to the amount of money you fork out.
  3. PodPeople Member

    Re: OTVII / VIII - Murder & Attempted Suicide in Colo (Fowler Software Design)

    Tks, Pooks Well, that explains a lot. So the real money comes from reg pressuring employees as well as customers. My, this sure has come a long way. This all started out from a Sci (not church mgmt or staff) putting together a directory of businesses run by Sci's (seeing how they were wiser, more ethical and reliable and all that). You paid a few bucks to be listed. Eventually Mgmt got whiff of it and smelled moar money, and voila.

    I can understand why the 10% "fee" was dropped. Too many failed, but sometimes ran in red years before exit.
  4. thetanic Member

    Re: OTVII / VIII - Murder & Attempted Suicide in Colo (Fowler Software Design)

    Most KRs are one person gossiping about another and would generally be hearsay, not a confession.

    The exception might be a KR that was written as a part of a sec check because that's written by an auditor (who is generally, but not always, a minister) in an auditing session and written up afterwards to go into their ethics folder. Since sec checks aren't under confessional seal (specifically), I don't see how they could be construed as privileged.
  5. Re: OTVII / VIII - Murder & Attempted Suicide in Colo (Fowler Software Design)

    Bacon...

    Popcorn...

    Popcorn that tastes like bacon...

    Sponge, you indescribable bastard! Damm you!
  6. WTF Member

    Re: OTVII / VIII - Murder & Attempted Suicide in Colo (Fowler Software Design)

    :::::/Yoda voice:::::::there is training don't forget the training. /voice

    Sending staff off to Hubbard College for staff/exec status and admin courses is another income line. FSMing staff to there provides a "kickback", too. Could send the Scn ones to the Org for training as well, but my concern would be the vultures trying to rege them for staff or SO.

    One may provide in-house training as well under WISE.

    Once I had to handle a sit. with my scn div 6 guy. He started explaining to wog staff that we needed them to get trained and started routing them to a local mission for basic courses (at that time the old [STRIKE]vulture[/STRIKE] volunteer minister's course). I covered with him our need to keep "church and state" separate from both an ethical and of course a legal viewpoint. (It would be really not great to have some wog employee launching some sort of enforced religion suit.)

    I also pointed out that church policy tended to make such routings a big no-no, too. There is this matter of "own-determinism." Not there on own determinism is a type of PTS.
  7. grebe Member

    Re: OTVII / VIII - Murder & Attempted Suicide in Colo (Fowler Software Design)

    I'd like that to be true. But don't investigators need a warrant?

    Fourth amendment: "The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

    If Fowler's guilt is obvious from examination of the gun and the two vehicles, I see no justification for the government's snooping about further.
  8. pooks Member

    Re: OTVII / VIII - Murder & Attempted Suicide in Colo (Fowler Software Design)

    It is my understanding that the 10% fee only applied to those WISE groups that were "consultants" or people that were delivering LRH drek to Wog Businesses.

    Groups like Singer, Hollender, are in the business of getting LRH drek into wog businesses. They pay a 10 percent fee just like Narconon or any of the other front groups.

    Most of the WISE business memberships are held by Scilons that own their own business.
    They pay a yearly membership, not a 10 percent fee. However, in true Scn fashion, they find other ways to make them pay.
  9. Anonymous Member

    Re: OTVII / VIII - Murder & Attempted Suicide in Colo (Fowler Software Design)

    When will it be next week?
  10. Don Carlo Member

    Re: OTVII / VIII - Murder & Attempted Suicide in Colo (Fowler Software Design)

    Grebe, the police DO need to "snoop around." Perhaps there is a danger to other employees caused by secrets in the folders. Perhaps other employees are involved in the murder.

    Means, Motive, and Opportunity are important for a jury to decide beyond a reasonable doubt that Person A and only Person A is guilty of murder. This is serious business and a look through the files is appropriate, especially since the accused murderer owed money and is the CEO.
  11. grebe Member

    Re: OTVII / VIII - Murder & Attempted Suicide in Colo (Fowler Software Design)

    As I understand, the police obtained a warrant that allowed them to search the two cars outside Fowler Software. Nothing said about searching anything else.

    I doubt there will be a jury trial.

    I'd love for a fishing expedition into the office records. IANAL, but I think the DA will need to argue probable cause --i.e., some reason that the records will contain evidence needed to convict of a crime.

    Crime #1 --who killed Ciancio-- is probably already in the bag (pending report about the gun). For that reason, I think we need another crime in order to justify a fishing trip.

    If employees fled the building without telling police, that might be crime #2. Or if the murder were a means to keep Ciancio from talking about naughty business in the office.
  12. rof Member

    Re: OTVII / VIII - Murder & Attempted Suicide in Colo (Fowler Software Design)

    Police are never allowed to search a crime scene.

    That never happens.
  13. Skeptic1337 Member

    Re: OTVII / VIII - Murder & Attempted Suicide in Colo (Fowler Software Design)

    I heard police in denver have never seen a murder.

    Their DA is also like a 16 year old kid with mad google skills.

    Hopefully he will find this thread and get good advice from all the elawyers and eCSI and eCops.

    Keep up the good work peeps, every agency in america who's never investigated a crime and need tips from people who've seen too much law and order is counting on you!
  14. Anonymous Member

    Re: OTVII / VIII - Murder & Attempted Suicide in Colo (Fowler Software Design)

    jonbenet.jpg


    [SIZE="1"]^Jonbenet fixed it for you.[/SIZE]
  15. PodPeople Member

    Re: OTVII / VIII - Murder & Attempted Suicide in Colo (Fowler Software Design)

    Wo, getting dizzy. Scn's become something like a ponzi 3-dimensional spider web. Every time you twist and turn, you're getting your brains and bank account sucked dry!

    [IMG]
  16. PodPeople Member

    Re: OTVII / VIII - Murder & Attempted Suicide in Colo (Fowler Software Design)

    I'm thinking the movie will come out before the trial. Maybe Haggis to direct.
    Pretty sure we've all written the screenplay on this thread.
  17. Skeptic1337 Member

    Re: OTVII / VIII - Murder & Attempted Suicide in Colo (Fowler Software Design)

    Are you saying that Fowler did JonBenet.

    Interesting...

    About as plausable as anything else on this thread.

    I wonder if he has an alibi.
  18. thetanic Member

    Re: OTVII / VIII - Murder & Attempted Suicide in Colo (Fowler Software Design)

    Because the office is a crime scene, generally the police wouldn't need a warrant for searching the offices, but there are exceptions.
  19. Anonymous Member

    Re: OTVII / VIII - Murder & Attempted Suicide in Colo (Fowler Software Design)

    Bacon popcorn!

    Best part of thread to date!

    Yum!
  20. Anonymous Member

    Re: OTVII / VIII - Murder & Attempted Suicide in Colo (Fowler Software Design)

    Is there a pattern to these killings?
  21. WTF Member

    Re: OTVII / VIII - Murder & Attempted Suicide in Colo (Fowler Software Design)

    Yes, all one of them happened in Colorado.
  22. Anonymous Member

    Re: OTVII / VIII - Murder & Attempted Suicide in Colo (Fowler Software Design)

    You don't read much. I can tell.


    JonBenet = unsolved case. Reread what I wrote.

    Dammit, Skep, sometimes I feel like I have to explain every damn thing to you.
  23. JustSomeWoman Member

    Re: OTVII / VIII - Murder & Attempted Suicide in Colo (Fowler Software Design)

    Jon Benet Ramsey's death was in Boulder County, not Denver County. The Fowler case is in Adams County. Google Maps might help.
  24. Anonymous Member

    Re: OTVII / VIII - Murder & Attempted Suicide in Colo (Fowler Software Design)

    Not yet.

    Wait.

    Watch.

    > popcorn <

    common threads will eventually become apparent, ergo~ pattern.
  25. Anonymous Member

    Re: OTVII / VIII - Murder & Attempted Suicide in Colo (Fowler Software Design)

    thanks for the protip, ms literal.
  26. muldrake Member

    Re: OTVII / VIII - Murder & Attempted Suicide in Colo (Fowler Software Design)

    That's sort of like saying that once they found ten bodies in John Wayne Gacy's crawlspace, that his guilt was so obvious that they'd have to stop. So long as there is still relevant evidence to be found, or probable cause to believe there is, they can get expanded search warrants, or follow an evidence trail they discover in the first search, possibly without even getting other search warrants, if circumstances justify it.

    The state has the power to make its case the best way it can. Simply because someone is obviously guilty doesn't mean that more evidence couldn't be gathered to make out a capital case.

    Now, the corporation itself has rights against search and seizure, and conceivably, could make its own objections to searching, but in a criminal investigation and with probable cause, the cops have very wide latitude to keep searching not only for evidence of the current crime, but even other crimes, if their first search turns up evidence of them.

    The remedy for overly broad searches is generally to exclude the evidence turned up as part of an improper search. But the search usually can and will happen.

    Of course, I could have just said this and left it at that.
  27. Herro Member

    Re: OTVII / VIII - Murder & Attempted Suicide in Colo (Fowler Software Design)

    Uhh, isn't it motive that has spawned this bloated clusterfuck of a thread?

    No, we know for certain that Fowler shot and killed Ciancio.

    Am I the only one who thinks that the police should be aware that OSA might have killed this other person to draw attention away from the Fowler case?

    Yeah but he also has a pretty bad track record against scientologists.

    Do you know anything about the video game experience of the DA?
  28. Relyt Member

    Re: OTVII / VIII - Murder & Attempted Suicide in Colo (Fowler Software Design)

    /r/ this thread be shitcanned (locked), and any new official findings (media, police, etc) be posted in a separate thread.
  29. Rockyj Member

    Re: OTVII / VIII - Murder & Attempted Suicide in Colo (Fowler Software Design)

    My fave is bacon, banana & mayo popcorn! :D
  30. WTF Member

    Re: OTVII / VIII - Murder & Attempted Suicide in Colo (Fowler Software Design)

    needs moar smoked salmon and fry bread
  31. Anonymous Member

    Re: OTVII / VIII - Murder & Attempted Suicide in Colo (Fowler Software Design)

    BanaK!

    Yumz!
  32. Shinythings Member

    Re: OTVII / VIII - Murder &amp; Attempted Suicide in Colo (Fowler Software Design)

    3wnj37um.jpg
  33. Ogsonofgroo Member

    Re: OTVII / VIII - Murder & Attempted Suicide in Colo (Fowler Software Design)

    Duh.

    & yes, you may well be.
  34. grebe Member

    Re: OTVII / VIII - Murder & Attempted Suicide in Colo (Fowler Software Design)

    Yes.

    Knowing that Scientology is a money sucking scam, I'd love for investigators to duplicate all the hard drives, seize all the files, and fish around for evidence of fraud.

    But hey, I'm a religious bigot. The cops may be less discriminating.
  35. firefly Member

    Re: OTVII / VIII - Murder & Attempted Suicide in Colo (Fowler Software Design)

    If the killer makes a full admission, takes full responsibility, and makes a statement that supports the evidence, then I don't see the police being able to dig much further into the workings of the business or Scientology for that matter. Police powers only go so far. A speedy conclusion to this case will be the priority.

    However, if the killer tries to shift blame onto the victim as a mitigating factor in the crime, then I would imagine the police will dig a lot further.

    The former is in the best interest of the Scilons and I'm sure Fowler is aware of this too.
  36. Anonymous Member

    Re: OTVII / VIII - Murder & Attempted Suicide in Colo (Fowler Software Design)

    I think that right now the only thing Fowler is aware of is the catheter shoved up his dick and spiders crawling along the ceilings.
  37. anonymous1312 Member

    Re: OTVII / VIII - Murder & Attempted Suicide in Colo (Fowler Software Design)

    Agreed, but this is no surprise since most of us are lawyers, judges, barristers, academics, state leaders and the like. :) <<<<< NOTE the suffix.


    WWP does seem strangely balanced, at least when people are dramatic here it is called out.
  38. Anonymous Member

    Re: OTVII / VIII - Murder & Attempted Suicide in Colo (Fowler Software Design)

    The killer, as you call him, shot himself in the head (through the tongue and brain). It's premature to assume at this point that Fowler is aware of ANYTHING, let alone what's in the best interest of the Scientology. Had he been able to KSW in the first place, he wouldn't have shot anyone in the first place. They don't want this kind of publicity.

    It has already been stated in the media that Fowler's condition precludes him from being interviewed by the police. There's no telling what cognitive and/or communicative abilities remain or could be rehabbed eventually, so a full admission, shifting blame, etc. could be impeded as well, at least for the time-being. It's probably a factor in why no charges have been filed yet.

    My guess is more investigation will be done for these reasons, at least.
  39. Anonymous Member

    Re: OTVII / VIII - Murder & Attempted Suicide in Colo (Fowler Software Design)

    Anonymity neutralizes ego. Lampoon vanquishes stupidity.

    Also we are from the future.
  40. Anonymous Member

    Re: OTVII / VIII - Murder & Attempted Suicide in Colo (Fowler Software Design)

    Well put.
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