Pictures from Mashad

Discussion in 'News And Current Events' started by Unregistered, Jul 16, 2009.

  1. Visionary Member

    Wow...that's a lot of people. Even taking into account pilgrims who were forced to watch it and stuff.
  2. How does one enforce "forcing" to watch?
    While the basij bus supporters in and facilitate supporters presence, they don't and can't "force" anyone.

    You idiots really think he has NO support? Or 2 supporters like someone claimed in another thread?

    The non-metrosexual youth, the non-fashionista women, the war veterans (and future soldiers), the poor, the religious conservatives, etc form his base support.

    They may not make up 65% as the voting seemed to show, but they are a significant number.
  3. All pictures:
  4. Because I dont like Ahmedinejad either and dont want to punish you (and myself) with his face. But I also dont like people assuming that everyone in Iran is against him by ignoring that not all of Iran are twittering, blogging, english-speaking, metrosexual, middle-class.

    Easier viewing of pictures here
    Fars News Agency ::
  5. Pictures from 25th of Tir of 1388 (Today)
  6. freeIran134 Member

    I reserve the right to be skeptical untill proven otherwise
  7. حمید Member

    Act of any conservative compromise being given tomorrow what so ever, will not challenge the sound of freedom echoing the world. The next step will be as a result not waiting for any meeting until any Friday for every single day will be a Friday.
  8. Visionary Member

    It's been proven time and again that the opposition is made up of a wide variety of individuals from all walks of life. That doesn't mean that Ahmadinejad doesn't have his own supporters.

    Now to the forcing, it was reported that lots of pilgrims were forced to attend because the mosque was shut down until after the speech. So they had to wait outside with the rest of the crowd. That's all I meant by forced.

    Although I'm sure there are others who were there that were forced in other ways to attend (through threats of various kinds), but that would just be my own speculation.
  9. I have yet to examine these photos fully, but the third on that page looks suspicious in several areas. Given that Ahmedinejad's cronies are more trigger-happy with the photoshop clone tool than a first-year photography student, I'm going to be skeptical that any "mass show of support" is real until proven otherwise.

    Also, I have to admit, you are one of the least convincing, "Nah, really, I'm on your side, but, ah, gee-golly, it looks like we lost. Oh well, who wants ice cream? Let's forget all this and go get ice cream!" unregistereds that I've seen on this forum yet.

    Oh, and his people have faked crowds with photoshop before, for instance here:
    Ahmadinejad Photoshop Fail | Mother Jones

    You'll notice this comes from Mother Jones.
  10. JohnDoe Moderator

    There is no doubt whatsoever that there will have been people there because they wanted to be there. No problem.

    What is in doubt is how many? How many were there because they freely choose to be there to support Amamadman, and how many were paid to be there? And how many were brought in to be there? And how many were stuck because they couldn't get to the shrine unless they listened to him?

    Any photos like any statement issued by the regime and its media has to be taken with a huge dose of skepticism - I mean this all comes from the man who has just held the fairest and freest elections in the world, the safest airline in the world etc etc!
  11. Visionary Member

    For some reason the first and fourth picture (the two above) seem odd to me.

    In the first there's a ton of people behind him, and in the other there's a ton of cars.

    Now this may be just because the cars or people went somewhere else, or the people got out of the cars and the cars somehow drove away (although there didn't really seem like a lot of room)...but I have a very uneasy feeling about these two pics.

  12. No, Im really not on either side. I support Green struggle in quest for social freedoms. But I strongly oppose their economic plans. I know what the bidard think about "lesser" Iranians. I also oppose the corruption of Rafsanjani and his cronies who have latched on to the Greens.

    I oppose the hardliners social and political repression. But I recognize that they have reached out to Iranians who have been historically under the Shah, Rafsanjani, and Khatami. I also oppose their nutty ideas of trying to hasten the Rise.

    Arguing about the photoshopping of that Victory rally, is as silly as the pro-regime idiots arguing about BBC using a Victory rally picture and labeling it a pro-Mousavi rally. Its stupid. Both sides have their numbers and their constituencies. There is a fundamental social contradiction between classes in Iran, and this impasse will not be resolved unloess that contradiction is addressed.

    But here is a video. I dont think you can photoshop in videos. - The Largest Shia Muslim Video Portal
  13. Do you think people can be forced to cheer, chant and wave flags too?
    The answer to the above is no, which is why their is a marked difference between the state organized rallies in Iran versus the state organized rallies in North Korea.
  14. Visionary Member

  15. JohnDoe Moderator

    Except I didn't use the word 'force' I said pay, and you can pay people 'to cheer, chant, wave flags too'
  16. Visionary Member

    Are you kidding? People can be forced to do anything.
    And people can also act pretty damn well if they know there is money in it.
  17. That is nice speculation on your part.

    But Iranians like myself (who are neith pro-regime nor pro-Green - also not pro-MKO or pro-Shah), or even folks from the Green movement will tell you that does not happen. People being bused in (or given days off), yeah sure. People being paid or forced, no.
  18. JohnDoe Moderator

    So the IRG are voluntary?

    Funny I know Iranian students who were very strongly encouraged to be at events, teachers who were scared not to turn up in case they lost their jobs . . . you might not call it forced, but that's the very word they used to me!
  19. Visionary Member

    Unfortunately there's no way to know if you are what you say you are.
    So I'll stick to what makes sense to me, until I can be sure otherwise.
    Not to mention that we've already seen numerous reports of people being paid not only to show up for Ahamdi, but to beat the crap out of protesters for him.

    So I think if they are willing to pay people to kill, they would be willing to pay people to attend rallies. Ahamdinejad's been throwing money at his supporters for years, I don't see why he would stop now. Is that what happened here? Not sure, but I see no reason to assume that it couldn't be part of the equation.
  20. Visionary Member

    See, this is exactly the kind of thing I am talking about.
  21. Ray Murphy Member

    I assume you take some sort of a stand about torture in prisons though.
  22. IRG is difficult to say. They almost unanimously support the regime, but yeah, they might get "orders" to attend.

    The idea of students or teachers losing jobs or positions is silly. We used to have tons of people boycott rallies, some in public ways. Post-election, they have held counter rallies to Ahmedinejad's rally.

    There usually are announcements in classes encouraging people to attend. But there are no mechanism to verify who attended or did not.

    All claims, from all sides, should be measured with a good dose of common sense.
    We Iranians do have a tendency to exaggerate things, as you can evidence by the various spurious claims by all sides since elections.
  23. JohnDoe Moderator

    Are you alive at all????? I have yet to meet a single Iranian who is not pro something! And usually very passionately!
  24. Ray Murphy Member

    I haven't noticed much of that sort of thing.
  25. Not sure what you mean. But as I said earlier I do abhor the social and politically repression of Iran, and that includes imprisonment and torture.

    If you are linking this with rallies, then no one is tortured for not attending rallies. You imagine the logistical nightmare that would encompass.

    But people ARE tortured for holding counter rallies.
  26. I am a leftist. Unfortunately the Iranian left is almost irrelevant due to repression under the Shah, and the Revolution.
  27. Ray Murphy Member

    I missed your earlier comment. Thanks.
  28. JohnDoe Moderator

    So you're not a Troll, you're a communist.
  29. I assume we have agreement on the regimes lies. So for the Green movement:

    Like the faked "letter" from the Ministry of Interior to Khamenei with the actual voting totals
    Like the various tweets and call to CNN saying hundreds of people were being axed in Baharestan Square and thrown off bridges and being shot at with machine guns
    Like continuing to insist that MOI declared victory for Ahmedinejad two hours after polls closed (ignoring the fact that Mousavi declared victory before polls even closed. IRNA made an announcement for Ahmedinejad based on the first round of results. MOI did not declare winner till 8am almost 10 hours later)
    Saying hundreds of thousands at rallies when only a few thousand (oddly, when they did have millions in the Enghalab to Azadi march, they underestimated their own numbers)
  30. Saying helicopters dropping boiling water on protesters
    Saying helicopters dropping acid on protesters
  31. Not sure if that is meant as a derogatory, but I am a socialist, who has doubts about the traditional communist understanding of socialism.
  32. I have seen pictures of the man who was axed. He was axed. Those were clearly axe wounds. And as for the leaked results, if they were fake, why did the regime have to kill the man who leaked them and then make his family sign papers saying he died in a car accident?

    The mere act of closing the internet and phones, beating, arresting and killing anyone who dissents, etc., etc., that right there screams guilt. If they were not guilty, why would they have to do this? If they have nothing to hide, why such an effort to hide everything? Why the blood?

    Again, that screams guilt right there.
  33. Ray Murphy Member

    Thanks for that. Yes I remember some of that now.
  34. JohnDoe Moderator

    Have you not heard of the gozenesh?

    If you have lived in Iran at all. If you were a student hoping to get to the university you would know there is the dept gozenesh, who look at your past, your family, your behaviour (have you attended the rallies etc) if the regime agreed you would get to the university, if not you didn't.

    Every gvt dept has hardliners who spy on the employees, are they attending the rallies, are they upholding the values of the revolution? If not they are in trouble.

    A highly educated person in the health dept in a city in Iran was sacked.
    Why? Didn't he do his job well?
    No he was very good at his job.
    So why? Well the spying dept, looked under the toilet door when he was peeing, and because he was standing up and peeing and not sitting down, he lost his job!

    Now don't tell me they can't pay or force people to cheer, chant and wave flags!!!
  35. You have to sit down to pee in Iran?
  36. <<<<<<<<<<<<Saying helicopters dropping boiling water on protesters
    Saying helicopters dropping acid on protesters>>>>>>>>>>>>

    most probably
    it was teargas crystals____ Carriers are the liquid chemicals used to dissolve tear gas crystals and to dilute OC solutions. Carriers consist of a single chemical or a mixture of chemicals and are usually organic solvents, such as alcohol, acetone, methylene chloride, trichloroethane, or propylene glycol. Water is sometimes added to these solvents to reduce their flammability but tear gas crystals and OC solutions are not easily soluble in water. Therefore, the amount of water added must be carefully measured to ensure that the active ingredients are adequately solubilized.

    certainly would get me outta the area quick....
  37. It is hard for people in the west to understand that. They have never experienced being forced to do things for their government. They cry like a baby and run to the ACLU when they get a 100$ fine for smoking pot. Experiencing the kinds of thing people experience in Iran, they just don't have the frame of reference to compare it to so they can understand.

    But I understand how people can be forced to do things like go to demonstrations. Or say how much they love it in Iran and how well things are to the reporters, when there is a government minder standing right behind the reporter glaring at them.
  38. JohnDoe Moderator

    Yes in Shia Islam

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