Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by oooo000, Feb 28, 2021.

  1. oooo000 Member

    The Abolition of Work and the Rise of the Ludic

    "The ludic life is totally incompatible with existing reality. So much the worse for “reality,” the gravity hole that sucks the vitality from the little in life that still distinguishes it from mere survival. Curiously — or maybe not — all the old ideologies are conservative because they believe in work. Some of them, like Marxism and most brands of anarchism, believe in work all the more fiercely because they believe in so little else.
    Liberals say we should end employment discrimination. I say we should end employment. Conservatives support right-to-work laws. Following Karl Marx’s wayward son-in-law Paul Lafargue I support the right to be lazy. Leftists favor full employment. Like the surrealists — except that I’m not kidding — I favor full unemployment. Trotskyists agitate for permanent revolution. I agitate for permanent revelry. But if all the ideologues (as they do) advocate work — and not only because they plan to make other people do theirs — they are strangely reluctant to say so. They will carry on endlessly about wages, hours, working conditions, exploitation, productivity, profitability. They’ll gladly talk about anything but work itself. These experts who offer to do our thinking for us rarely share their conclusions about work, for all its saliency in the lives of all of us. Among themselves they quibble over the details. Unions and management agree that we ought to sell the time of our lives in exchange for survival, although they haggle over the price. Marxists think we should be bossed by bureaucrats. Libertarians think we should be bossed by businessmen. Feminists don’t care which form bossing takes so long as the bosses are women. Clearly these ideology-mongers have serious differences over how to divvy up the spoils of power. Just as clearly, none of them have any objection to power as such and all of them want to keep us working." — Bob Black, "The Abolition of Work" (

    "Workers of the World... Relax!"

  2. oooo000 Member

    If you like to work, post-work clearly isn't for you. But most people, and the planet itself, suffer from the forced prostitution of our time on earth. Post-work is also post-money; UBI is a bridge to a society where everything is free. Please look it up before getting back to me. Or I can provide some links here if you'd like.
  3. Disambiguation Global Moderator

    Ah. The Spammer link finally appears. You really worked for it.
  4. oooo000 Member

    Not a spammer link.
  5. Disambiguation Global Moderator

    It’s to a business that sells student papers
  6. oooo000 Member

    No, it's free. Lots of prominent academics there. A great source for unfiltered, post-work research.
  7. Disambiguation Global Moderator

    Ok, you don’t get banned.
  8. oooo000 Member

    • Like Like x 1
  9. oooo000 Member

    Post-work is also post-money.

    UBI ( can serve as a bridge to a post-work, post-money — a post-scarcity — society (

    If you didn't know how the money system works, you will after you see this one:

    97% Owned: The Cruel Truth Behind Money Credit and Financial Crisis | ENDEVR Documentary

    For more depth, here's The Bank of England's "Money Creation in the Modern Economy."
  10. oooo000 Member

    Generation: Fuck You by Any Means Necessary Collective.

    "Forced labor sucks. Under capitalism all labor is forced labor, because if one chooses not to pay (Rent, groceries, medicine) they send men with guns to us, sometimes these men put us in cages, sometimes they give us fines we will never be able to afford, sometimes these men simply kill us."
  11. oooo000 Member

  12. Coofingsock Member

    Did you know that even in nature all creatures labor in some manner to survive? Bees collect pollen, build nests. Beavers build their dams and so on. Do you really think that there’s an actual socialist Paradise in which you can live all day long only playing vidya and pound pud?
    Sorry mate. There’s no such thing as post work.
  13. oooo000 Member

  14. Coofingsock Member

  15. oooo000 Member

  16. oooo000 Member

    The trick to bringing about a post-work society is to unschool the young and never ask "what will you be when you grow up?" The socializing, schooling and advertising ensures they are assimilated and willingly prostitute their lives away in servitude to The Big Pimp. Crucially, we need to establish a sustainable alternative ( so when they escape, there's a place to escape to — a place without money and stress where everyone is free to express their natural ludicness for as long as they live on this pretty speck of dust floating around in whatever reality is.

    "Why Do We Work So Damn Much?"

    "Even the best job will never love you back. So where do we find our life’s purpose?"
  17. Gnome Chomsky Member

    Personally I'll settle for a decent standard of living and work as a means to achieve it.

    Your ludic idealism is nonsensical and 5 posts back Coofingsock expresses why most succinctly too.

    One way or another we all work so why not get paid for it and get that smug feeling when you admire those luxuries you paid for and enjoy them into the bargain.

    Utopia never existed and post work is a mere copout for the bone lazy segment of the population who need an excuse to justify their futilitarian existence.
  18. Gnome Chomsky Member

    Jeezo the world would grind to a halt with the post work lifestyle, it's inviable . Horror show.
  19. oooo000 Member

    A post-scarcity economy will be post-money too. If yours isn't a bullshit job ( and you really love it, nobody will stop you. Nobody will stop you from performing a bullshit job either. How you choose to live your life depends on how socialized you are and the paradigm your mind wraps your experience of reality in. Proponents of ludicism are only concerned about forced work, not work people really want to do. Here, the gates will open, but some may opt to live their lives inside the fenced off human farm.
  20. Coofingsock Member

    Here’s your “post-work” utopia. Looks a little ummm I don’t know. Uncomfortable? Desperate? Dangerous? Unsanitary? Hey at least they don’t have to go to work every morning. Amirite?

    Attached Files:

  21. Coofingsock Member

  22. Gnome Chomsky Member

    Not to mention all that plastic! She better be en route to a recycling centre.

    Hey OP try the post-work thingy for a few months then get back to us but don't come looking for a handout when you're behind in your utility bills and the mortgage company is knocking on the door.

    By the by, my job keeps the wheels of industry rolling and I love it.
  23. Gnome Chomsky Member

    And they pay me handsomely for it :D
  24. oooo000 Member

  25. Gnome Chomsky Member

  26. oooo000 Member

    This is a valid concern. If you believe people will be needed to produce goods and services.
  27. Gnome Chomsky Member

    How else can it be done?

    Manufacturing, medical services to name but a few, there's an endless list that relies heavily on human resources to administer all of it.
    Basic survival depends on hard graft of some kind.
  28. oooo000 Member

    No need to incentivize a robot. Or a blockchain. Or an open source developer. And ludic isn't lazy. A ludic is busy living life.
  29. Gnome Chomsky Member

    Sitting on your ass getting everything for nothing is not living life, it's an aimless existance.
    Eventually even the robots need maintenance as for blockchain it was a human invention and human intervention is always going to be necessary for the survival of society.

    And what do you think an open source developer is?
    It's a job done by a human being who gets paid for his services.

    It doesn't matter how many excuses you put up for post-work as an alternative to the present way of living like I said it's not a viable option and never will be.
  30. oooo000 Member

    As of right now — way back in 2021, you're completely right. This is about setting society on a path to a near-future where there no longer will be a need for human machinery.
  31. Gnome Chomsky Member

    Free of human machinery?

    Well yeah that will take a lot of planning and consideration and testing ad infinitum,it's still work ya see?
  32. oooo000 Member

  33. Coofingsock Member

    I’m here to free you from human machinery. D689E59D-0BAC-4A62-A6E8-40665875057F.jpeg
  34. Coofingsock Member

    Nah. I’m good brudda. I think I’ll go to work and enjoy life while I’m here. Thanks though! Sounds totally awesome! 5AC7A2C5-5A46-499D-907C-31A5DC223C12.jpeg
  35. Gnome Chomsky Member

    I'm about to free myself from this post-work discussion as I need to fulfill some necessary personal requirements that a robot cannot do for me.
  36. oooo000 Member

    Sure thing. Enjoy.
  37. Gnome Chomsky Member

    Before I depart.


    In Greek mythology, the lotus-eaters were a race of people living on an island dominated by the lotus tree, a plant whose botanical identity is uncertain. The lotus fruits and flowers were the primary food of the island and were a narcotic, causing the inhabitants to sleep in peaceful apathy. After they ate the lotus they would forget their home and loved ones, and only long to stay with their fellow lotus-eaters. Those who ate the plant never cared to report, nor return.
    Figuratively, 'lotus-eater' denotes "a person who spends their time indulging in pleasure and luxury rather than dealing with practical concerns".

    Not a healthy way to live.

  38. oooo000 Member

    Beautiful. Absolutely. The ludic, however, isn't careless.
  39. Gnome Chomsky Member

    Nah I'm not convinced that post-work is ever gonna be taken seriously by the majority of the world population, myself included.
    I'll stick with working and enjoying the rewards my salary brings me.
  40. oooo000 Member

    Most people will initially place themselves somewhere along the end of the bellcurve of innovation whenever something new is introduced to the population.


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