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Psychout-Specific Thinktank

Discussion in 'CoS Front Groups' started by Consensus, Apr 5, 2008.

  1. Consensus Member

    Psychout-Specific Thinktank

    This thread is for people to brainstorm - free of consequence - on the psychout idea. I'd prefer it not be filled with nay-sayers telling us not to bother, but if you have a real criticism it's certainly welcome. Equally welcome are a variety of ideas regarding how we might undermine the mission of the CCHR.

    If I may start the debates out - and feel free to go in a different direction - a bit point of contention is whether we ought to involve 'psychs' (psychologists, psychiatrists, and mental health professionals) in our movement at all. I know the APA has generally decided it's best to ignore the CCHR altogether, so it would be a hard sell to get the involved in the first place. But is it worth making APA members aware of what we're doing? Is it wise to open up dialogue with them? Or would that be a footbullet on our part?

    A similar question might be asked regarding Big Pharma. They're even less popular than psychiatrists, and are attacked by the CCHR as often as psychiatrists themselves - and they have far deeper pockets. Pros: They might actually be willing and able to run ads in major publications like the New York Times; Cons: They're big pharma.
  2. argh Member

    Re: Psychout-Specific Thinktank

    About getting Big Pharma to pay for ads - I don't think they'll want to do that, it could look like they are using their money to beat up some poor misguided kooks. (I know thats not what Co$ is, but thanks to Cruise, a lot of the public think that.) It would give CCHR ammo too, Co$ on the whole seems to love playing the innocent injured party.

    The one individual in psych health services that I have talked to about Scientology and Anonymous seemed interested, fairly knowledgeable about Co$ (their brainwashing and fair gaming in particular, but I don't think as an organistion the mental health service (at least in the UK) would consider getting involved, it has enough to do with it's day to day fixing of poorly heads.

    I keep wondering about MIND though, especially since the Co$ tried to screw them from the inside before.

    But then, can any actual organisation openly criticise Scientology and not lose face in some quarter or other?

    I'm just thinking "aloud" really, this could all be bollocks, its late here.
  3. Re: Psychout-Specific Thinktank

    I think that most health professionals consider CCHR totally unscientific, and thus refuse to actively involve themselves against it (as this would give them some sort of scientific legitimacy). A nice metaphor would be medical doctors lobbying against "miracle cures" - they just do not do it.

    Although the CCHR is case closed for all scientists (either they consider it crap or support it just out of political convenience, like Thomas Szasz), with the general public things are not so clear cut. Many people buy into pseudoscience and alternative remedies, and the leap from there to the 8 dynamics and SP's is much smaller.

    Compounding this "opinion" problem, if we are not careful we would have many other non-scientology organizations to contend with - the anti-psychiatry movement.

    I think the key issue here would be to frame things in such a way that we do not seem pro-psychiatry, but rather, anti-scientology. We would need to defuse CCHR without giving the anyi-psychiatry movement a reason to ally with them against us.
  4. AnonyK23 Member

    Re: Psychout-Specific Thinktank

    The public currently kinda sorta really hates pharma and doctors, at least until they get sick. Even if pharm companies would say something, anything, that'd be a really.bad.move.

    There's probably a way to use some cognitive dissonance that fears people have and supporting the CCHR would create though. Like people are (rather unjustly) terrified of people with mental illness, to the point where many are actually pro forced psychiatry. CCHR says Drugs Are Bad MKay? Holding that irrational fear of medication and of mental illness is self contradicting.

    There's other stuff too, but it was going to be tl;dr

    -k
  5. googoomuck Member

    Re: Psychout-Specific Thinktank

    What really pisses me off about CCHR is the way they warp public opinion in the press and in politics.

    While the anti-psychiatry thing is not my bag, I don't object to them being anti-psychiatry. I object to them putting pressure on lawmakers to make prescriptions more expensive, or to keep women uninformed about postpartum depression.
  6. captainslug Member

    Re: Psychout-Specific Thinktank

    My personal opinion is that Anonymous itself does not need to do anything public in regard to countering CCHR beyond working to prevent their public activities where they try to spread their absurd propaganda.
    What would be more worthwhile is helping to feed the information we gather to the people, occupations, and organizations it is trying to attack so that THEY can craft more detailed public responses to the messages of CCHR.

    Anonymous should not try to proclaim itself an expert in any given subject. Leave that to legitimate and recognizable institutions relevant to the specific subject. Doing the work in this way will gain reputable and powerful allies of Anonymous, without undermining the lack of direct allegiances that Anonymous is supposed to maintain. Scientology has tried very hard to build itself up as "the authority" in many areas, Anonymous should avoid trying to do the same.

    The primary aim of Anonymous is to inform the public and draw mass attention to the crimes of Scientology. It need not try to refute any of it's outlandish claims because their actions speak for themselves. We have the resources to be extremely effective in this regard, but most organizations do not.
    If we give this information to the appropriate organizations and they find it to be detrimental to the well-being of their clients and their profession they will take their own measures to inform everyone within their circle of influence. The APA is in the process of doing this now and so far is appreciating our assistance and input.
  7. AnonKiwi Member

    Re: Psychout-Specific Thinktank

    A "Doctors and Nurses" themed protest would be extremely funny (and sexeh!). And could be a great way to pass out a lot of info on the various bad doctoring the Scilons get involved with.
  8. Hostile Member

    Re: Psychout-Specific Thinktank

    I say we all start talking like psychologists to the scilons.... it'd be hilarious!

    I'll go and find my other post and copy it here...
    here it is
    the basic way is
    1 be personable and nice. build trust with your person asap.
    2 rephrase what they say neutrally eg "I hate" becomes "you dislike"
    remember, even things like fight can be rephrased into altercation.
    3 be open postured (don't fold arms, spread legs apart, don't frown etc)
    4 confirm what you hear by saying "I think I heard you say that ...... " the person you're talking to won't notice, but someone listening in on the conversation will hear it... don't let them realise that their words are becoming neutralized
    5 if you sense that they are trying to express an emotion, go ahead and notice it. say "you seem (angry, sad, happy, etc)"
    6 when asking questions, make sure that they're more than yes or no answer questions... start the question with how, what or tell me about...

    practice it on your friends and family, obviously when they're not sad or depressed they won't really open up to you and you won't need to use the above, but if you come accross a scilon... well, they'll need a bit of help... they're people too! if we can get this on youtube of a scilon talking to an anon and really being nice and vice versa, epic win!
  9. Re: Psychout-Specific Thinktank

    I've seen alot of threads mentioning getting sympathetic organizations involved, i.e. The AMA, but has anyone really tested the waters to see how they'll respond?

    The masks might put them off a bit, but our message is right up their alley. When you think about the width and breadth of Anonymous, there are probably already people in mental health related professions who are members.
  10. anon2487 Member

    Re: Psychout-Specific Thinktank

    AMA essentially said that they pretty much just ignore CCHR. Their response strategy is to up output of their own literature any time CCHR has any gr8 impact, rather than tackling them head-on.

    I really don't understand the Op Psychout approach. Tackling the relative merits of psychiatry is a risky idea and easily distracts from what most of us are here for, with any screw-ups handing an easy bit of ammo to Co$.

    I've got no problem tackling the front groups, I think that it's really important we do, but we should be making it as easy for ourselves as possible. We're on much stronger ground with Narconon or Applied Scholastics, so it has to make more sense for us to be tackling these first, gaining points for win, credibility and experience in the process.

    No disrespect, but I find it very hard to understand why "Op Psychout", seems to have been treated like no other proposal to date. I'm not sure who's pet project it was (and I'm not meaning that disrespectfully), but even they must admit by now, that the hivemind has spoken (several times over), and it may be time for this idea to be put out to pasture.
  11. Ann O'Nymous Member

    Re: Psychout-Specific Thinktank

    For your information, we tried to sort out who is who on the CCHR advisory board.

    I just begun contact with people that does not seem to be upfront scientologists. The first returns tend to show that these people have an enormous grundge against big pharma and see CCHR as the "last dungeon".

    I doubt we can convince some of them to put some distance.
  12. anon7894 Member

    Re: Psychout-Specific Thinktank


    I'm meaning this entirely disrespectfully. Why does this abortion of an idea now have it's own subforum???? I'm truly baffled.
  13. MarcabEmpress Member

    Re: Psychout-Specific Thinktank

    Quick simple slogans to let John Q Public know CCHR is not a human rights organization.

    CCHR: What about the labor camps?
    CCHR: Their way or oblivion
    CCHR=Crazy Con, Hubbard's Rules
    CCHR wants to take away YOUR human rights
    CCHR = Forced, abortions, denial of medical care, refusal to allow the use of prescribed medication
    CCHR wants to clear the planet of Free Throught
    CCHR destroys lives
    CCHR=Scientology Front Group.
    SHRINK SCIENTOLOGY NOW!
    Also signs with pictures and names of victims of CCHR/Co$ behavior.
    "In memory of NAME DATE of BIRTH DATE OF DEATH.
    Denied psychiatric medication/care by Scientology
    www.scientologykills.com"
    etc.

    from there you can get into SIMPLE explanations on fliers, with links to more detailed wesbites.

    One thing to avoid, IMO, is looking like a bunch of crazies protesting another group of crazies. Fringe vs fringe. Nutjobs who need psych meds vs nutjob jobs who hate psychs.

    CCHR claims to be a human rights organization; expose them for what they are.
  14. redplaidsofa Member

    Re: Psychout-Specific Thinktank

    I know it may be too late for this opinion... but just in case it is usable...

    I think that a better name for this mission would be "Operation Mind Freedom".


    It just seems more kinder and... it feels more freeing, honestly.

    There's just something more compassionate and positive about it - especially in light of how most Scilons are mentally imprisoned by the concepts forced into their minds by the cult. Time for some real "mind freedom" for a change. Anons can help deliver that.

    Just my humble thought du jour. Hope it is useful.
  15. inanissum Member

    Re: Psychout-Specific Thinktank

    I guess the focus of Operation Psychout shouldn't be to say it's necessarily bad that COS is taking people off of psychological medication (as some conditions can do rather well without meds / using alternative medication) but to talk about them taking people off of meds who really can't go off of them, like Torry.

    We need to make sure that we don't come off as really drug positive, but we should talk more about the implications of being forced off medications, and how that affects one's quality of life.

    Also we should talk about the way they use front organizations to attack psychitary and blame psychologists for all the world's problems. We should expose their illogical thinking, and talk about how they aren't only anti drug, but anti therapy. Alot of people out there are anti-drug but most people see some benifit in therapy and councling, but the Scis only solve their problems with Auditing (aka a type of hypnosis). They try to achive a state of mind where they feel no emotional pain (aka eliminate the "reactive mind". How could that be healthy, what is happiness without depression?


    I mean a Clear is defined as someone who nolonger has their "Reactive mind" (aka the emotional part of the brain) and only has one's analytical mind (aka logic). Scientologists seem to be trying to eliminate all emotion, what type of life is that?
  16. AnonOutreach Member

    Re: Psychout-Specific Thinktank

    A couple of points to bring up or ponder.

    1) Not all psych or assistance from outside includes either psychiatry or drugs. It's not an either/or proposition.

    Psychologists, social workers, counsellors etc. are all forms of support yet no drug intervention is required. CoS ignores these possibilities. We do not have to. Explain this to people in the correct circumstances.

    2) Women's groups and social services that work with women's struggles may be open to the message. When it comes to CoS the whole disconnection policy they would be appalled as well as what goes on via harassment & intimidation. Some are likely to have had women clients dealing with fair gaming and custody problems.

    3) Child protection services.

    4)) This is off topic but I don't know where else to put it. CoS has consistently used illegal labor in construction. Has anyone considered using the legal building codes in the effort to shut their buildings down? In many locations, plumbing, carpentry and/or electricity must be installed by licensed contractors and cannot be legally done by unskilled "volunteer" labour.
  17. AnonOutreach Member

    Re: Psychout-Specific Thinktank

    This whole debate for me comes down to a simple bottom line that I stand on absolutely.

    Right now, psych meds are a CHOICE. If you don't like the side effects etc. then you can change meds or stop taking them. It is between you and your LICENSED medical practitioner whether or not this is the best choice for you. YOU ultimately decide.

    Scientology wants to TAKE THAT CHOICE AWAY and prohibit your right to make your own decision with your doctor.
  18. AnonOutreach Member

    Re: Psychout-Specific Thinktank


    See my above about choices for medication.

    I'd call this operation, Operation Medical Choice or Operation Free Will

    Something along those lines
  19. AnonOutreach Member

    Re: Psychout-Specific Thinktank


    You can do this without supporting psychiatry.

    Support informed medical choice.

    That leaves CoS with pretty much an unsupportable position.

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