Question for OTIII or above

Discussion in 'Fair Game Reports and Personal Experiences' started by XenuChan, Mar 22, 2008.

  1. XenuChan Member

    Question for OTIII or above

    I was just curious about this:
    There are plenty of "Wogs" who talk about Xenu and the wall of fire stuff freely, and I was thinking, are there any ex-scientologists who were exposed to OTIII before they reached that level, were told by the Org to ignore the Xenu stuff because it's fake or it was made up by SP's to discredit the "tech"...and then finally when the ex-scientologist reached OTIII read about Xenu and the wall of fire documents that the "Wogs" and SP's had already told them about.
    If you did, what did you think when you read it? Was it like "Oh shi- I'm being lied to by my religion!!" or did you think something else?
    • Like Like x 1
  2. cheezymadman Member

    Re: Question for OTIII or above

    My theory on the OT3 stuff is that one of two things happen when clears get that far.

    A) They dismiss it as metaphors, like in the bible. Adam and Eve couldn't possibly be the beginning of all life, or we'd have died out from inbreeding by now. It's a metaphor. In the same vein, Xenu didn't bomb our galactic souls, it's a metaphor. >_>

    B) They're too far along to have a real sense of doubt of their own, so they blindly believe it / are brainwashed into believing.

    Those are the ones that stay in, of course.

    As an aside, I know Magoo posts here from time to time. I'd love to hear what she felt when she first heard the Xenu story from the source.
  3. musketeerwang Member

    Re: Question for OTIII or above

    bump for ex-Scn response. I'm betting doublethink/dual reality/cognitive dissonance is the explanation, but would also love to hear from the horses' mouth, esp how many really do start to question things when they meet Xenu and the Gang for the first time (knowing about it already from exposure to critics)...
  4. Gunslinger Member

    Re: Question for OTIII or above

    Bumped, for the same reason.

    Thank you, Spiderman!
  5. Re: Question for OTIII or above

    Sticky for a bit, I would very much like to hear from someone who found 'the xenu story's really in here?' from their own experience also, rather than speculation. link/copypasta of a verifiable tale would be acceptable of course.
  6. stuwyatt Member

    Re: Question for OTIII or above

    Thanks for the sticky. I too would be interested in hearing first hand accounts of the first reading of the infamous OTIII texts. It must be a confusing blow to be told something is lie, only to find out after a lot of time and expense (not forgetting potential asbestosis) that the Xenu story is actually church doctrine. Alien rulers? Volcanos? Space DC-10's? Soul catchers? Is the average Scientologist so brain-washed at this point that they cannot see that something is very wrong?...

    Also - does anyone know how many known ex-OT's we have on Enturbulation now?
  7. anonhuff Member

    Re: Question for OTIII or above

    Page 3 of Kendra Wiseman's story on talks about her experience with reading about then seeing the OTIII documents herself (though she was not ever OTIII herself).

    link: (that is page 1 of her story)
  8. waz1 Member

    Re: Question for OTIII or above

    I did OT III. (Can't find the appropriate smiley - although the actual ROTFL of non-scientologists when hearing the Xenu story works.) What was leaked are the actual materials.

    Yes, there's a whole lot of conditioning (read brainwashing) that one undergoes before they ever get that far. Probably way over half the staff are not OT 3. And, although they may be "clear" - they didn't get that way by doing the Clearing Course.

    One has given lots of money and/or time and their life before they ever get to the upper levels.

    Within scientology things are not discussed. Discussion might lead to thinking, and - well, thinking ain't a good thing. Besides, within scientology, if you have a disagreement with the materials as presented, it is because you have a misunderstood word or concept. It isn't the fault of the materials, it is your comprehension, or lack there off. Take that a bit further = it's your fault. If things are not going well, it's because you are not applying scn or you are misapplying it. If things are going well = scientology correcly applied. If something bad happens to you = you "pulled it in".

    Take some of these concepts, remember the story of The Emperor's New Clothes, and you'll see why even IF someone thinks OT3 is BS, they don't speak out. And, when they do - now, with the internet - there are attempts to beat them into silence.

    When the media (or non-scientologist) speaks about OT3 (or any part of scientology actually) they invariably make some little mistake in the story. That alone justifies saying it isn't true. Justifies it to a scientologist anyway. I heard the OT3 story denied both before and after I did it myself.

    The other thing is that scientology always has a "shore story" - an acceptable truth. Acceptable to them - lies to others. Plus, scientologists aren't briefed, or kept abreast of the bad stuff said. Within OSA it is their job to handle PR with the media and public, but also to keep it off scientology lines. What I am saying is that not many scientology staff would even hear about it if the media was talking about OT3. (I did becuase of my job at the time...)

    And, the bottom line for scientology is "the greatest good for the greatest number". This justifies absolutely all the shit, criminal and otherwise, that they do. They are the only ones that can save planet earth (and beyond), therefore any decision they make is the greatest good. (Play leaked TC video here)

    I could go on, but hope this helps to clarify it some.
    • Like Like x 12
  9. musketeerwang Member

    Re: Question for OTIII or above

    Really great insight, thank you. Confirms a lot of what I've read elsewhere/assumed.
  10. Re: Question for OTIII or above

    I didn't know what was on the upper levels till I got there, the information just wasn't available at the time. I remember taking the OT1 pack to a public toilet to read it before doing the process and sitting in the cubicle howling with laughter, but I think it was just that it was so simple.... I certainly don't remember finding OT3 (the Xenu bit) ridiculous, it seemed amazing to me at the time, but it was virtually impossible to actually do it! From discussions since I left, it seems clear to me that Ron Hubbard had delved into his own subconscious and decided that what he found there must apply to everyone else......

    Do I feel duped? Yes, I do, but I can see how it happened. No-one in Scientology is supposed to talk specifically about their auditing and certainly not about the OT materials, but you are constantly fed "wins" from people who have done the upper levels; they hint at amazing abilities which they are "not allowed to use in public as they will freak people out". It was also common to use science fiction or space-age images in promotion. We were subtly prepared to accept it, I think.

    When you get there and find you can't actually do any knocking off hats at 100 yards or making ashtrays rise in the air, you just think it must come on a higher level, you're never specifically promised what you'll be able to actually DO; what you are promised is that you will become "at cause" over certain elements of life. Easy to wriggle out of the failure to deliver what was promised.

    Some rather brave ex-SO members went in uniform to the Advanced Org at Copenhagen, pretended to be a Sea Org Mission, and walked out with the OT course packs. They were hounded mercilessly by the CoS, as you can imagine, and one of them, tricked by the CoS to walk into a trap, was jailed for a short time for theft, although the judge was very amused by the case, I believe.....

    Now the "confidential materials" are available anywhere at a touch of a button. This still seems strange to me and quite hilarious!
    • Like Like x 5
  11. Flanon Member

    Re: Question for OTIII or above

    Did they tell you everything in one sitting? Such as they do on South Park or maybe the few paragraphs on ED that explain it; or do they draw it out similarly to how a history professor might tell it? Just wondering how much shit they try to fill you with.
  12. waz1 Member

    Re: Question for OTIII or above

    You have a checksheet, which is par for every scn course. But, when you go to audit the actual materials, you are given the whole shebang - in his personal handwriting.
  13. lermanet_com Member

    Re: Question for OTIII or above

    do you recall the part of OTIII where he said "to only run your BTs and yourself through Incident II of OTIII UNTIL YOU SEE THE PICTURE OF THE PILOT SAYING IM MOCKING IT UP"

    I wonder if that "pilot" was Hubbard in his navy cap checking to see if you noticed his whopper..

    and in the fine print, remember the section that said

    "if you don't have any "BTs" you have redo ALL your previous auditing (at your expense).."
    • Like Like x 3
  14. Susie Wong Member

    Re: Question for OTIII or above

    Excellent link from That story says it all really.
  15. ScudMuffin Member

    Re: Question for OTIII or above

    My meme sense it tingling.
  16. ScudMuffin Member

  17. Re: Question for OTIII or above

    Jason Beghe said in the WBM interview he read it with his friend David Duchovny and just fell about laughing :)
  18. exOT8Michael Member

    Re: Question for OTIII or above

    Great thread. I only saw the OT3 materials when I got onto the level, and by that time I was a well trained brainwashee.
    While I was on OT3 I did have a BT come into my session and tell me about someone screwing around with OT5 so I wrote it down and the sh** hit the fan for the Scilon who was (supposedly) doing funny stuff with OT5. Just for the lulz, but it is true. In retrospect I don't know wtf happened there...
  19. lermanet_com Member

    Re: Question for OTIII or above

    when I read the 'big secret' I was reminded of the first time I had sex...
    at the time 'so this is it? the big secret"

    now I might phrase it a bit differently...
  20. Incident II Member

    Re: Question for OTIII or above

    OT I was great - absolutely amazing and fun.

    OT II boring and pointless.

    OT III was mmmmmm.... Interesting.

    OT IV, V, VI boring and pointless.

    OT VIII and up - pretty amazing.

    The thing is that it all felt very different before it was splattered all over the internet...

    An exciting ride...

    It's more MAGICK than it is therapy...:shock:
  21. Tsuu Member

    Re: Question for OTIII or above

    There's nothing after OT VIII.... unless if you hallucinated dozens of new OTs :grin:
  22. Incident II Member

    Re: Question for OTIII or above

    You are misinformed.
  23. Re: Question for OTIII or above

    I'm OTIII. Much of the matarial is like the bible stories. It's liek fables and metaphors. Jesus didn't really turn water into wine, you know. The story in the bible is just there to illustrate a concept or a point.
  24. Anonvox Member

    Re: Question for OTIII or above

  25. Re: Question for OTIII or above

    That was rude and uncalled for. The person who started this thread asked to speak with people who are OTIII. i have every right to post here in respons.

    I'm prefectly willing to answer questions that the person may have. and i don't think that you making suppresive comments is in the spirit of this forum, so please stop. Now.
    • Like Like x 1
  26. Marc Abian Member

    Re: Question for OTIII or above

    Body Thetans are 5 additional levels of creepy crawlies all over you, twisting, turning, yearning.

    Why did they keep the whole Xenu thing under wraps for so long? Why did Hubbard promise death to those who learned too soon?

    nevermind: Question answered.
  27. Anonvox Member

    Re: Question for OTIII or above

    I call bullshit. I don't think you're anything but a retarted, schizophrenic troll. Claiming that the Scilon 'ban' in Germany is worse than the Holocaust was a dead giveaway. You even fucked up the story of Xenu in one of your posts. I'm just performing a public service by telling the OP this.

    The only thing you have to contribute to the forum is to quietly leave. DO EET NAO!
    • Like Like x 2
    • Winner Winner x 1
  28. Re: Question for OTIII or above

    People still in after paying out for and reading that rubbish cannot post their true thoughts on the matter due to the cult imposed restrictions, or are still blissfully unaware of the reality of the CoS and the ridiculousness of the entire program they are shelling out their lives &/or (hundreds of) thousands of dollars for.

    If you think it is just a metaphor, why is purging body thetans the sole excuse for the concept of auditing? or is that not actually revealed until OT4/5/6 ? same bullshit, still no *real* OTs, or even Clears.

    There are a great number of people who do not think the water to wine story is simply a metaphor, I think your confusing it with the 'this is my blood, this is my body' part, fortunately Christianity itself is not an inherently harmful system for the most part (though it has been massively abused when pushed onto others, crusades etc).

    PS. This is all very likely to get split from this thread the way things are going.
  29. anonymous1244 Member

    Re: Question for OTIII or above

    Sorry to carry on the threadsplit, but WTF AnonVox???
    Valentin gave a straightish answer to the OP's question, and as for fucking up the Xenu story, she's not even made any other posts as far as I can see.
    • Like Like x 1
  30. Anonvox Member

  31. Randomness Member

    Re: Question for OTIII or above

    You're a fucking troll imo.

    I'm SP10, so I say "Pics or it didn't happen"
  32. Randomness Member

    Re: Question for OTIII or above

    If you are ex/current OTIII, type out Incident II for me.

    Let's hear it.
  33. anonymous1244 Member

  34. Anonvox Member

    Re: Question for OTIII or above

    Your apology is accepted. *hands flowers* (I don't have smilies)
  35. Re: Question for OTIII or above

    If you were at all informed about the Church, you would know that I can't discuss that with you. Thank you for trying to get me in trouble, though.
  36. Marc Abian Member

    Re: Question for OTIII or above

    With who? I thought you left.
  37. Re: Question for OTIII or above

    funny story on that, once was a london ladies social club, who decided for the sake of titilation to hire the then infamous master therion, aka aleister crowley to attend one of their meetings and perform some MAGIck.

    he agreed and demanded to be paid in advance in sterling, and turned up at the appointed time in full ritual regalia.

    on being led into the room where the ladies were gathered, he hoisted his robes, squated on the persion rug, and crapped on it.

    he announced theres your Magic, and left

    he really was a beast.

    i sometimes wonder if the Xenu story isnt hubbards version of crowleys persian rug magic

    the original lulz
  38. ANON E MOOSE Member

    Re: Question for OTIII or above

    I'm emotionally torn between the idea that you are a bad troll or a devoted freezoner who happens to be an idiot.
    • Like Like x 2
  39. highoverlord Member

    Re: Question for OTIII or above

    Probally both. We should not feed the troll.
  40. Bumblefuck Member

    Re: Question for OTIII or above

    Stop being a pansy. Just because people are rude to you DOESN'T mean you're being trolled.

    Now then, down to business. Incident II or GTFO

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