Question for OTIII or above

Discussion in 'Fair Game Reports and Personal Experiences' started by XenuChan, Mar 22, 2008.

  1. anon9000+ Member

    Re: Question for OTIII or above


  2. Anonicog Member

  3. Zenster Member

    Re: Question for OTIII or above

  4. Zenster Member

    Re: Question for OTIII or above

    My dog had body thetans...........................
    I got her a flea collar
    total cost $7.00
    not bad considering
    Jason Beghe spent $1million
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  5. evolvinganon Member

    Re: Question for OTIII or above

    I would like to help you. I have visited your website, and you are an obviously very delusional person. I'm not saying this to insult you, as I have a form of Schizophrenia and I used to be very delusional myself. Medication saved my life, and medication can help you as well. I hope that you will seek psychiatric assistance before you end up harming yourself or someone else. Your website is just an obvious extension of your illness. Please get help.

    Just so you know, I am aware of the lies that co$ comes up with about Anonymous being funded by Pharma or other pharmaceutical companies, and I can assure you no one is paying me a cent to spend my energy typing posts like this. I am just legitimately concerned about you as a human being being so obviously ill and yet talking about how Scientology - which has caused the deaths of some people with mental illnesses - helps you.

    For what it's worth, a lot of people believe they are "special" and have super powers - because they're psychotic. A lot of people believe they can offer help to save the world - because they're psychotic. A lot of people who are homosexual believe there is something wrong with them and they need to be "cured" of it, because they have been conditioned by society to hate themselves for the fact that they are gay.

    Rather than insult you for your ridiculous comments on your website - where you have the unabashed gall to compare the Holocaust (which should never be compared with ANYTHING) to the way Germany treats the Co$ - I would like to tell you that, as a fellow human being, I am concerned for your welfare. And I can tell you that I know what it's like to be psychotic, and to not know you are. I say this to help you.

    Sorry for derailing the thread, Mods. I just think this needs to be said.
    • Like Like x 3
  6. Quote Member

    Re: Question for OTIII or above

    Okay, to the people who are saying "It can be seen as a metaphor"...


    There is practically zero symbolism, it is all space-fiction bullshit. You can say "Killing is bad" and "Psychologists are bad" and that's really about as deep as you can read into it without jumping on shadows.
    • Like Like x 2
  7. DeathHamster Member

    Re: Question for OTIII or above


    That web site is three weeks old, has a fake address in the domain registration, and is (probably) by the same person as posts here. Why is it confirmation of anything?
    • Like Like x 2
  8. undertow Member

    Re: Question for OTIII or above

    Definatly a troll. However it appears he posted a blog about this forum on sunday. Not very nice, but bleh.. who cares.
  9. Lorelei Member

    Re: Question for OTIII or above

    A Co$ apologist in my thread? It's moar likely than you'd think!

    Troll, spylon, pitiable deluded soul, pranking *channer, Freezoner or whatever, it was a de-rail of a potentially useful topic. Must have taken a wrong turn on the Information Superduperhighway (maybe at Albuquerque). Not really worth our time to suss out what the damage here is. Re-route around the thread damage, persevere.

    Thanks, Michael & Arnie. That was interesting. Any other OTIII ex-Scis who might care to share their thoughts, should we manage to re-rail this thread?
    • Like Like x 1
  10. notapplicable Member

    Re: Question for OTIII or above

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  11. Honk_Honk111 Member

    Re: Question for OTIII or above

    Please stop being teh meanz to ValentinSelezynov - he's obviously from OSA, but being rude to him will just reinforce his belief that we're supressing him and that we hate Scidongs. We need to at least show him we don't have anything against him personally.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  12. aNONanon Member

    Re: Question for OTIII or above

    I saw multiple anonymous baaaw-ing about how cos members don't engage in conversations and if they do they reply with personal attack not addressing questions asked.

    Look at this thread!
    some anon here are reacting IMO exacly the same way.

    If you were on "the other side", would this create an impression that we are the happy, welcoming people with caek?

    Here you had the opportunity to overhelm him with reason, facts and documents (and make fun along the way :twisted: but not to insult)

    I know this is kind of off topic but I see this too much to ignore it ...
    • Like Like x 2
    • Agree Agree x 1
  13. anonyleaks Member

    Re: Question for OTIII or above

    There are key differences in religious text from Christianity to Scientology and although you've probably noticed that, it's good to illustrate that here just for the record. Most Christians (I say most, because I cannot speak for ALL Christians) really know that Christ never turned water into wine; however if you enter a Church they'll be happy to tell you the story and how it applies to your life or the lesson that they believe you are supposed to take away from the mythology.

    With Scientology, the mythology is guarded from intellectual discourse because it is presented as factual evidence of a catastrophic genocide some seventy five million years ago on this planet. Hubbard does not elude to it being a story or a fictional account and therefore, most Scientologists (if not all) who proceed THROUGH the wall of fire accept it as a fact of matter, not a religious teaching gone awry.

    What is it do you think that OT-3 is not permitted to be talked about? It is because LRH presents the story TO YOU in a factual manner which, given the details of OT-3 and incident two cannot possibly be historically authenticated.

    You are being separated from discussing OT-3 with others because it prevents logical and intellectual discourse regarding the so-called "incident II" event. The less people hear it and can discuss it (which are almost none) then the less can challenge it's authenticity or voracity. Also, you're not a current Church Scientologist you're a Freezoner - no current Church member would come onto these forums even acknowledging incident-II let alone the confidentiality of it.

    Here for the record, are the historical facts that clash with Incident-II so you can theorize whether or not what you have been instructed through Class-VIII or OT-III is factually acceptable

    • How did Xenu and his people on Coitice send these thousands of people in space planes? How was it fiscally possible to have THAT MANY planes? It must have cost an eternity worth of money to just make the damn planes, let alone fuel them to travel -- assuming of course, you could actually FIT that many people into a DC-8 spacecraft.
    • Nuclear bombs on my Earth? It's a lot less likely than you think and the historical record of Earth's soil/atmosphere disprove the theory immediately
    • Where is all the fall-out from this genocide? The volcanoes on Earth look pretty solid to me -- surely they'd have been destroyed by atomic weapons being dropped into them
    • ALSO, he made it up...
    • Like Like x 1
  14. aNONanon Member

    Re: Question for OTIII or above

    That's the attitude I'm talking about :)
    Athough I'd be REALLY suprised if somebody tried to present OT3 story as fact. It's plain clear to everybody who have seen outside world even with one eye that it's just made up (provided they are not psychotic :D). Judging by interviews by exsci, many scientologists (as deluded as they already are) go like "WTF? Okay!?" when reading XENU story and have to do some mental gymnastic to accept it.
    It can't survive rational thinking and Hubbard knew this. Why can't they talk about it? why is it confidential? Why the denial to public?
    And regarding that metaphor thing :) I agree that someone who thinks it's ment like that by Hubbard is most likely freezoner, because in cos everything hubbard says is taken as hard fact.
    Trying to rationalize it as metaphor is next step in menal gymnastic when person realises it's bullshit but still wants to believe it.
    I think that's the case with christians too, as few hundred years ago nobody was saying it's just metaphor ... when it became more clear that it can't be true suddenly it's metaphor :D
  15. Re: Question for OTIII or above

    source: Affidavit of Andre Tabayoyon - 5 Mar 1994
  16. ancientone Member

    Re: Question for OTIII or above

    I think this idea was written because L. Ron knew that if you were not fully brainwashed you would not buy dat shit. Homey don't play that game. Sorry old school. I mean who would if they were told it in OT1 or starting OT2. You would laugh your ass off or just cry that someone was that naive. You would begin to doubt your "religion" and everything you learned to date. You world might start to crumble. But he did not lie when he said it could kill you if you heard it before you were fully brainwashed. As crazy as is was, he understood psychology. The metaphor I might use is that a stock broker spends this entire life learning how to make money on the stock market only to fail during a big crash. He loses everything, nothing make sense any more. He jumps from the building to his death. It is easier than dealing with reality. It is emotional overload. Too much too fast. Obviously someone who was not in Scientology and read the stuff is in no danger because they have nothing to lose emotionally, financially etc etc. Although they may die of laugher! I would think dying of laugher would not be such a bad way to go. :massivegrin:
    • Like Like x 2
  17. Sci No Moar Member

    Re: Question for OTIII or above

    When I was in there was a guy on the radio one day who was discussing the sooper sekrit OT III materials. He said basically that we were all possessed by space aliens. I was no where near this level of the bridge yet so this was very hard for me to believe and I doubted him because of the tone he presented it in. This is not entirely accurate but it has a grain of truth to it like I thought at the time. The next day there was a big deal about it at the org and we were all asked if we had heard it and I spoke up and said that I had. I was immediately taken into session with an OT VIII. He basically asked me questions about what I had heard and looked off into space. I think he was on the meter himself. I was pretty awed by this. It seemed to me that he was auditing on the third dynamic. I thought also that my hearing about that had enturbulated the space in the org and he was getting into comm to get rid of the enturb.

    I was basically told that even if there was truth to what was said that my case level was not high enough for me to understand it. The materials would be out-reality to me until I was at that case level.
    The seeds were planted though but even after I got out and read some books on this subject I did not believe what I read. The indoctrination runs very deep. I have been out for 15 years now and I still run across thought patterns that originated from scientology. The ideas that are presented in those materials are hinted at in a lot of the lectures. He talked a lot about what happened to thetans as they went down the tone scale. This all prepares you to accept what is told you later. The insidious nature of the programming boggles my mind to this day.
    • Like Like x 3
  18. alex Member

    Re: Question for OTIII or above

    When I first read the OT 3 material, I had the "cognition" (scientology word for moment of realization), that I had a responsibility that was larger than I had thought, as it was not just me, but other "beings" or "spirits" that I was doing this for.

    My second cognitions was that Dianetics (the book) now made a lot more sense, figuring in all the "associated spirits" into the equation.

    The notion that we are connected spiritually is not so strange in the context of religion, although scientology's concept that the connection is in some ways forced and by a specific incident in the long past, is.

    I believe that the incident actually happened to some people. I believe that people do have spiritual connections to others that have some element of stuckness or obsession to them, and that those connections can be repaired.

    Does that help to understand it without all the xenu pilot volcano glycol stuff?

    (and also Incident 2, the "xenu" thing, is not the only incident that has caused such problems (spirits stuck to each other)....its just the last big one)
  19. alex Member

    Re: Question for OTIII or above

  20. themadhair Member

    Re: Question for OTIII or above


    And to be honest, with roles reversed, I doubt that too many people could withstand such an assault on the psyche given that it has been designed and refined to attack the very resistances the human mind holds.

    YouTube - There... Are... Four... Lights!
  21. Lorelei Member

    Re: Question for OTIII or above

    Several psychological tricks are at play (yes, cognitive dissonance being a big one).

    1. Humans are wired in such a way that when someone gives them something (even something with no true value), they perceive it as a debt, and desire to even that debt. Whether the giver is nice or nasty has surprisingly little effect on this. Scientologists use this instinct when they offer "free" stress / personality tests. Victims who accept are placed in a position of debt after the "nice" cultist gives so generously of his or her time and energy to focus on the victim. This is the same principle behind Hare Krishnas handing people flowers or US flags. People who accept them feel in debt to the giver, even if they do not want the flower, and hand over money to even the debt. This works particularly well with flags, as targets who are given flags are often superstitiously or patriotically loathe to discard them, and thus can't cancel the debt easily by discarding the unwanted gift. See also unsolicited crap sent to you by charities: greeting cards, address labels, beaded jewelry, stickers, calendars, a shiny penny, and so on. This feeling of debt is typically so uncomfortable for the average person that they will be vulnerable to suggestions that give them a way to resolve the debt.

    2. People value things they have had to work hard for, or sacrifice for. If you have spent time, energy, money on something, or if you have suffered in any way (boredom, pain, initiation rites), you are more inclined to justify your losses and expenditures by rating what you gained (or perceive to have gained) much more valuable than something you got for free or with ease. In a way, it is the gambler's fallacy, that the odds eventually will go in your favor, even if you're down, because the universe or luck or karma "owes you" in some way. Some of the most valuable kinds of things people are loathe to admit losing include personal reputation, good judgment, agreement with friends, self-image of self as being "too smart to be conned," self-image of self as an independent thinker, and so on. Doomsday cults are interesting to observe precisely for this reason. Typically, the cult leader says disaster will befall everyone on such and such a date, that day dawns, no disaster has happened, and cultists go through a series of reactions. First, hope fades, then despair sets in, and right before common sense kicks back in so they can admit they were fooled and were wrong, they justify what happened, and almsot inevitably it is the cultist's faith and wisdom and preparations for the disaster that caused it not to occur as predicted. In such a way they deal with cognitive dissonance by rejecting the self-image they would have to adopt, of being gullible and in error, and substitute instead an image of being exceptionally wise, in possession of important secrets, of having the power to prevent disaster, of being enlightened. Oddly, cultists whose leaders are proven to be wrong, and charlatans, often will cling all the more firmly to their leaders and their cultist identity. Admitting they were taken advantage of is too painful to face.

    3. People think that brainwashing requires stereotypical "watch swinging in front of your face" or spinning graphical pinwheels, or being stuck in a dark basement under a naked lightbulb and interrogated, or "you're getting very sleepy" commands and so on. Because our concept of what brainwashing is tends to be Hollywood cliche, the average person believes that they are immune to brainwashing. In truth, NO ONE is immune. Brainwashing is a type of mind control, which is a type of persuasion. A mostly benign form of persuasion is advertising products. If you have ever caught yourself humming a jingle while in the shower, guess what? You're not immune to persuasion. It has nothing to do with how smart you are, or how street-smart, or any of a number of different excuses people cling to to tell themselves that THEY would never be as gullible and weak as THEM, "them" being the poor folks who were rooked by well-honed culty mind control techniques. Everyone has a chink in the armor and an area of weakness. Even you. In this case, refusal to believe that you are vulnerable...makes you MORE vulnerable.

    4. Most people are not fluent in logical fallacies. Ergo, most people can be persuaded by a number of logical fallacy-infested arguments. You may be familiar with ad hominem attacks (using insult to discredit a critic). Elron certainly knew about it! Hence: bullbaiting and WHAT ARE YOUR CRIMES and "attack, don't defend," all intended to introduce emotion into a logical discussion, get the critic off-guard and defensive, and underscore the point with the devout cultist that bullbaiting is an effective way to shut up anyone who has the temerity to disagree.
    • Like Like x 6
  22. KeepAnon Member

    Re: Question for OTIII or above

    Anselm's Fool's Fallacy.

    You are giving the definition of a human that they *must* have a weakness; therefore their lack of a weakness is seen as their wekness of not seeing it.

    Aquinas' already covered this.

    I could, by definition, say that every human *must* have a magical power; therefor your lack of a magical power is therefor your magical power.

    You cannot say something exists (your weakness in humans) by saying in it's definitoin that it must exist.

    I could have come up with a better scenario, but it's 9am and I haven't even had my coffee yet...

    PM me if you ever want to argue, I love me some logical debate. :hc:
    • Like Like x 1
  23. anongurl7 Member

    Re: Question for OTIII or above

    You are a charlatan, who doesn't know the answers himself, yet tries to help others with his quest.

    It's not that you're schizo, or "can't help it"... you're fully aware of what you're doing. You just lack class, integrity, and a genuine sense of purpose.

    You, like Hubbard, will always be recognized for the scum you are. My advice for you would be to go learn about yourself away from others for a while, before you go down a hole you won't come back from.
  24. anongurl7 Member

  25. Re: Question for OTIII or above

    I did OT111 before hearing anything from the public domain. I believed that my doubts about anything Scient related were because I had Bts with doubts, see? It is such a mind-fukk!

    I felt a great responsibility to help 'others'. My Bts, their BTs, blah blah blah. I was so brainwashed by this point that I was fully trapped, like a bird in a cage. It is pounded in your head all the way up the bridge that the answers to healing the world are only found in Scient. Now, I find it absolutely amazing that I was so locked in. When you are surrounded by well intended people who are 'like-thinkers' and not allowed to read anything negative, say anything negative, and your life revolves around what you see and hear when 'in': you are fully trapped.

    Then I did NOTs and my cog was: LRH was psychotic, all this is his 'case', the rest of the bridge is trash, the old bridge was bullshit and it's all a money game now.
    Thanks to one man's psychosis: thousands of well-meaning people would be trapped, destroyed financially, and 'ruined'. I find that pretty funny now: ruined. Because you are told all the way up: this next level will fix your 'ruin.' If you don't fix it on that level: "It is your fault, you must be the one blocking the way to 'total OT powers and freedom". That is what the reg says immediately after you finish a level and while he is asking for anyone you know you can get money from. Then you are told : Keep moving up the bridge ($$$$$) and you will finally get there.

    I realized Harmony and balance were the Truths I believed in and wanted to support. I decided that for any 'conflict', I felt my job was to create harmony. I do think that we can have that spiritual connection, possible 'stickiness' to others that it can be resolved in many different ways.

    What LRH did was create a bridge that enforces separation in every way spiritually. The higher up you go, the more isolated you are.

    Per the brainwashing: ANYTHING you think or say to others as an OT that is negative re: Scient is considered natter and KSW was designed to keep everyone quiet about their doubts, blame themselves for anything wrong, and make it ok to commit any crimes "for the greatest good for the greatest number of dynamics".

    Reading the OT111 materials made me feel really spooky. I did the level, felt a positive change right away, felt free from something that had been 'sticking' to me, then I realized that 'I mocked them up', made some kind of decision to blame 'others' for my condition, (whatever that was.) So, I could 'unmock' them, and decided to just 'be myself', 'create harmony' and never let things stick again. I could have done this anywhere, from any religion, cult, personal work, spiritual reading, and I could have done it for FREE!

    Immediately after this I was informed by a trusted best friend that there was a ton of data out there that would blow my mind and spent a month doing nothing but reading everything I could get my hands on. there was a lot of data out there and I am very grateful to all of the people who risked their lives to get this data out.

    I saw that all the work I had done for so many years and all the $$$ I had poured into Scient, all the people I had 'helped' to keep them moving up the bridge were to help this psychotic (Ron) run HIS case.

    Then I found out about all the lies Ron told about who he was, what he did, etc.: a good link:

    A BIOGRAPHY OF L RON HUBBARD by Michael Linn Shannon "The Shannon Report" 1975

    Everything unraveled from there. Finding out that Ron had been on anti-psychotic drugs clinched the deal. His case! All that money spent by so many people to get to OT111 to audit out his case, which was never cured, not even by powerful drugs.

    I still find myself unraveling the brainwashing after all this time.
    It has been hard to try and find that 'exclusive high' in anything else in my life. I have found things that work for me and have had to be gentle with myself and understand that anyone who is still indoctrinated needs to be handled with the facts; not insults, name calling, etc, so that they can finally be truly free.

    "...Secrecy is the keystone of all tyranny. Not force, but secrecy... censorship. When any government, or any church for that matter, undertakes to say to its subjects, 'This you may not read, this you must not see, this you are forbidden to know,' the end result is tyranny and oppression, no matter how holy the motives." --Robert A. Heinlein, -If This Goes On

    Free those good people from oppression, and expose the con!

    I digressed off the topic of OT111, however I think that is where so many blow.

    Thanks to all of you and hundreds of others who share the truth. :flowers:
    • Like Like x 5
  26. Elapid Member

    Re: Question for OTIII or above

    Testing 1-2-3
  27. exOT8Michael Member

    Re: Question for OTIII or above

    Earth to Elapid, we hear you...

    Oooops, I meant Teegeeack.
  28. Footbullet Member

    Re: Question for OTIII or above

    None of the volcanos in OT3 existed 75 million years ago. Or they were inactive and far older than 75 million years ago.
  29. basil Member

    Re: Question for OTIII or above

    Most of the sci that we're likely to encounter doing 'stress test tables' are going to be low level though aren't they?
  30. afternon Member

    Re: Question for OTIII or above

    Thankyou for that personal experience- very revealing and it makes me more determined to get those trapped in the cult to the real bridge to freedom- the bridge that they themselves create not the "bridge" Hubbard created which is one of the most comprehensive mental prisons there is.

    Read stuff written by Steven Hassan- an exit councilor who was in a cult himself (the "moonies").
    • Like Like x 1
  31. Anonymous Member

    Re: Question for OTIII or above

    According to Hubbard's typical extensive research, Xenu's planes of 75 million years ago were identical to DC8"s except that they did not have propellers. These jet engine aircraft never had propellers at any time. Is it possible to renegotiate a billion year contract after 478 million years of service without medical coverage?
  32. Re: Question for OTIII or above

    I thought the difference was that they had rocket engines instead of atmospheric jet engines (which have fan blades).
  33. Recovery Member

    Re: Question for OTIII or above

    The original question for this thread is a very good one.
    I did OT3 and had no idea of what I was in for.
    There's no way it is sold as an "allegorical" story or metaphor.
    It is sold as real and absolute.

    My story is linked below and here: My Journey As A Scientologist To OT3 & Back
  34. TinyDancer Member

    Re: Question for OTIII or above

    Welcome aboard, Recovery. I will read your story with interest.

    From the moment you realise the trap, you are recovering. I wish you well in that.
  35. RightOn Member

    Re: Question for OTIII or above

    Thats what I heard.
    And most never get to the state of "clear".
    Thats why talking about Xenu to them, makes no sense to them.
  36. RightOn Member

    Re: Question for OTIII or above

    Thank you for sharing your story No name.

    "anyone who is still indoctrinated needs to be handled with the facts; not insults, name calling, etc" = very wise words!
    • Like Like x 2
  37. CADEN Member

    As a clear i was afraid of the OTIII info as I believed I was at risk and thought it might have been like something from the Matrix and that we were all stuck in pods, programmed. HA I kept asking why i was at risk but no-one would tell me, only that I need to do OTIII. All I was allowed to do was listen to a tape called RJ67 where hubbard says he broke his back researching OTIII but now he has made a safe way through for all. Felt like I was gonna die if I didnt get through it until I met up with someone who had done OTIII but was now getting out of SCN. I eventually believed I wasnt at risk and was willing to hear the whole story. When I did I laughed my head off and thought is that it? The further up the OT Levels you go, I reckon you either realise its crap and get out or you get more and more brainwashed and it creates mental disorders like multi personality due to all those damn BT's. It's harder for these guys to get out ass they have been severly mind fucked.

    The person who did OTIII's reaction after reading about the BT's was " I better have a shower to get these fuckers off me!"

    Also when I did hear a little about the space aliens from a protestor, it was so ridiculous that i thought he was nuts for trying to say thats what SCN is about. The only time talking about Xenu is effective is when you ask someone who is OTIII about it, they are not allowed to talk about it and are forced to sign a secrecy waiver to that effect so all they can do is lie and deny it. Makes them feel uncomfortable though.
  38. suz1948 Member

    Re: Question for OTIII or above

    Yes, about 3 years before I did OT111 I found a book called Scientology Inc. It was sitting on a shelve in a bookstore, so I picked it up & ready the OT111 data. I was on lines at St. Hill, East Grinstead, Sussex & had to go & see the Ethics Officer about what I had read.

    Cant remember their name but they said it wasnt true & I had to do conditions. I got a bit suspicious as when I got auditing I noticed on my PC folder that it stated I had to be auditing only by someone who was OT111, at that time I thought Why, if its not true.

    In the back of my mind I really wanted to do OT111 to see if it was true what I had read in this book. I did OT111 & it was exactly what I had read so the Ethics guy was lying (mind you alot of staff dont even get up to Clear). It wasnt very long after doing OT111 that I left, it put a seed of doubt in my mind, which then woke me up a little & I saw alot of things I didnt like.

    When I went in Scientology I thought they were perfect, but when I came across lies, that really did it for me. After OT111 all I wanted to do was get the hell out of there. The only regret that I have is that my dauthter disconnected & that I wasted 15 years of my life, but hey at least, I have both sides of the story.
  39. Anonymous Member

    Re: Question for OTIII or above

    I feel your pain. Check this twat out, he's even more annoying in the flesh.

    YouTube - Will Wayne Smith lighten up please?
  40. kissyfur Member

    Re: Question for OTIII or above

    Thanks OP, I always wondered the same thing and never could find anything specific but then I am bad at internetz.

    I think I finally got the whole point: anything bad that happens is due to your own bad thoughts about yourself or the situation. Like the power of positive thinking, only in Scientology self-doubt is replaced by alien boogers.


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