Question for OTIII or above

Discussion in 'Fair Game Reports and Personal Experiences' started by XenuChan, Mar 22, 2008.

  1. Voltaire Member

    Re: Question for OTIII or above

    OT III from what it sounds to me plays heavily on many psychological tricks that fit well into the overall tapestry of Scientology control. Has anyone gone to a freak show or carnival midway where the barkers entice people? Magic also plays on this chord in the psyche of people, and remember LRH was into playing the swami and what not (Babalon Working). You see, people like to be tricked (as some liked to be scared, horror movies) to some extent and once the 'big secret' is revealed you can suspend your disbelief. If you are a true believer, you eventually can rationalize things as fables or glorious stories laden with symbolism.

    The freak show demonstrates my point on a rather harmless level. Money is extorted under the premise of some fantastic claim, 'The 130 Pound Man-Eating Chicken'. Granted it is very harmless, playful (I'm still a sucker for the creativity anytime I see one) and enjoyable. So you pony up your buck and go behind the curtain. While the curtain is parting you are conjuring up how big this chicken is, color and other fantastical things such as fangs (a la the bunny in Python's Holy Grail) and once you go into the room where subtle red light illuminates a puny, shirtless man weighing 130lbs consuming chicken from a KFC bucket. Of course you have been 'played', 'duped' or what not....but you also were complicit with the (really good fun and creatively delicious).

    You see OTIII, to me, plays along the same lines -- only more dubious and expensive. "No you can't see the level until you're on the level". This only makes someone more determined to get onto the level. Now you're hooked. Mind you how much are you spending and how many 'fantastic' people are you meeting and hearing from along the way? Man this level must be 'the one'. Also remember you have to invest years to get there. So you keep your studies up and are dutiful in all that you good soldier (we've all heard of it...RIGHT?). Then you finally get to 'the level' and you read the tale and man you think "This is it?". You come out and then all of a sudden all the 'fantastic' people surround you and confirm how GREAT the level material was. Now here is where you are shepherded back into the viciousness of the control cycle they have. People you know, of the same knowledge level are perfectly fine with everything and life goes on just fine. The con has just been sold, bought and paid for and once again everything is right with the world. Throw into the mix that people such as JT and TC are using the knowledge to their benefit everyday, man this stuff must work and in fact......rinse repeat....I've got to get to the next level by gosh.

    <<<<<<THIS CAN HAPPEN TO ANYONE>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    • Like Like x 1
  2. CoastalAnon Member

    Re: Question for OTIII or above

    After reading OT1 and OT2, I thought, no wonder people do OT3. Those OT levels are designed IMHO to further break down one's thinking processes so they become more credulous than they were.
    I won't go into detail as it's nearly 4 am here...

    Also, I had my Clear Cognition a few minutes ago too and thought I'd share it:
    You don't go UP a bridge, you go ACROSS. Bridges that go UP will just leave you hanging in the air.

    *self-censors nasty language about LRH and Miscavige, even if it is true.*
  3. Re: Question for OTIII or above

    The whole thing is like some kind of freakshow. They promise people higher levels of consciousness and many people believe in the possibility and believe they need a Guru. I still believe in higher states of consciousness, but I also always believed the only way to see the truth is for yourself. When the man pulls back the curtain you are seeing what he has placed there for you to see, and in no way is what you have seen real.

    The whole thing is rather amazing to me. When I read "The Teachings of Don Juan" I thought to myself "Hey this old cat is using the same kind of tricks me and my friends used back in our tripping days. When a noob would come among us we would direct that new persons trip in order to make them one of us. What scientology does is in no way any different.

    An example IMHO of a higher state of consciousness would be a Samurai or anyone who understands getting in the zone.

    I am curious does scientology tell you what to eat when you are studying to become OTIII? I am asking this because I wonder if protein deficiency is one of the keys to getting people to believe this Moonbat shit.
  4. Suzette Member

    Re: Question for OTIII or above

    This is the whole point of only doing things on a gradient. If you accept OT II, then you find yourself asking where all those implants came from. If you accept being clear, then you have to wonder why your life isn't any better, so you do OT I and find out that it's all because of your friends and family. If you accept that you are a spirit with powers over MEST, you might wonder what you're doing here on Teegeeack, and why you can't keep you apartment clean. By the time you get to OT III, the Xenu story is pretty much the only explanation that will fit the existing Scientology fantasy.

    It's the classic pattern of delusion--finding an explanation for contradictory data at each step, rather than stepping back and realizing the whole thing is flawed. And worse, each step gets more paranoid, adds more unseen enemies, and presents the world as that much more dangerous.
    • Like Like x 1
  5. LarryBren Member

    Re: Question for OTIII or above

    "Come one, come all
    See Xenu the dog-faced boy.
    Captured and caught
    in the wilds of Teegeeack
    Feeding on a corpse
    That was thought to be his brother.
    Step back little boy, step back..
    for Adults only".

    You mean like that?
  6. Re: Question for OTIII or above

    Exactly like that.
  7. QOTWOG Member

    Re: Question for OTIII or above

    I'm with Jason Beghe on this, reaching OTIII and discovering Xenu - You know you don't believe the crock but your headspace is so screwed you just keep absorbing the data. And of course he was a past life clear lol Never mind homo novus, it's more a case of homo stupidus!
  8. Anonymous Member

    Re: Question for OTIII or above

    I did a lot of technical training & auditing of others before doing the OT levels. I heard the term "Xenu" or "Xemu" and other parts of the OT III account listening to various LRH taped lectures that were requirments for whatever auditor course I was doing at the time but since I had not done the level I did not recognize any of these as OT III content. I'm sure these references have been scrubbed from the tapes since. When the auditing action called The Happiness Rundown was first released, ASHO in L.A. was the only place on the planet that delivered training and internships for the rundown. David Mayo was overseing the delivery of this training and I was one of several who were being trained and interned on the rundown at that time. While on the internship I audited a public or paying preclear who was a well known musician. I don't recall how but somewhere along the line this PC started coming up with parts of OT III during session. I did not know it but the Case Supervisor or David Mayo recognized it and ordered what is known as a DofP Interview. Since the Director of Processing had not done the Happiness Rundown yet and for some reason (probably because I had been in Scn a while) it was assumed I was OT III and I was told to do the interview. During the interview the PC told me the entire OT III yarn and the source of his information which was a magazine article he read while smoking ganja on a Jamaican beach... Anyway no big deal here so I requested to continue auditing the Happiness Rundown and that's when things went off the rails. I was given a cramming order (order to be corrected on some technical problem) and routed into corrections. The Guy who was doing the correction with me was not making a whole lot of sense and it was then discovered I was only a Grade IV release and had not done the OT levels! I wasn't even Clear so there was a panic to get me through OT III before something terrible happened to me. I protested because I was fine and had no clue what the fuss was about and I wanted to finish the internship! Well, it was deemed I had completed all the requirements for the internship and was allowed to graduate. The fact was I had finished all the requirements but I was being held back because I was delivering paid auditing. Anyway, I was quickly routed onto the confidential levels called Power and Power Plus the Clearing Course and onto the OT levels. It was not until OT III that I understood what all the fuss was about back on the internship but the OT III narative was completely underwhelming. A huge disappointment and only confirmed what I always knew - I am an SP. And I suppose that's why I did not get sick and survive to this day to tell my story.
    • Like Like x 1
  9. voiceless849 Member

    Re: Question for OTIII or above

    They cannot post their thoughts because they don't really have them. As a Scilon, you are conditioned to think along different channels, and until you've experienced exactly what this is like, it's really hard to describe.

    However, if you've learned to play the piano, or can remember the process of learning algebra, it gets sorta close. When you first see a polynomial, your mind is all like (WTF?) and your thoughts vary widely. But once you've been trained into how to think through polynomials, you don't really think about it, it just sorta happens.

    Realize that I was conditioned for YEARS to accept that the "whole track" went back billions of years, and that there was some kind of horrible catastrophe that was to be audited out on the OT levels. I was excited by the prospect of learning about this all in good time, and facing down the evils. I wanted the OT powerz that were sure to come - ability to bend space and time to my will.

    Had I been exposed to the OT levels with any kind of certainty, I would have feared for my life.

    Years later, when I found the OTIII materials online, and was pretty sure it was the real deal, it was a good week or more that I actually had trouble sleeping at night, wondering if I was going to die. This, even though I saw many other people indicate how they read it and felt fine!

    I sure feel the sucker in retrospect, but even more, I feel an epic amount of anger at the organization that took a good chunk out of the best years of my life for what amounts to nothing more than a sickeningly effective con job.
    • Like Like x 1
  10. Anonymous Member

    Re: Question for OTIII or above

    The DC-8 didn't have fans at the time OTIII was written. It wasn't until the 80s when the CF engines were retrofitted that they got fans.
    --- Old jet Pilot
  11. hbeer Member

    Re: Question for OTIII or above

    I have left the church in 1996, before all the confidential stuff appeared on the internet. I did OT3 in the freezone. - I didn't believe the story at all. But there was a lot going on during the auditing. SOMETHING was running. And I have met two people, one in person (now dead) and one on a newsgroup (still alive), who have run the Volcano scenario in Dianetics sessions, BEFORE OT3 was developed.
  12. suz1948 Member

    Re: Question for OTIII or above

    You are exactly right, this is what happened with me. I went into a book shop & looked through a book called "Scientology Inc" cant remember who had written it, but at the time I was a Scientologist. I read the Xenu bit & thought No that cant be it.

    When I went into St. Hill, Uk somehow it came out that I had seen it, I was sent to the Ethics Officer & he told me that it wasnt true what I had read. Years later I did OT 3 & it was exactly what I had read in this book, so I realised that they were lying to me, it wasnt long after that I was gone.

    Looking back there were alot of things that they lied about, I would never trust anyone in the Sea Org & would never go back to Scientology. Thank God I dont believe in the crap anymore, it took quite some time but I live in the real world now & wouldnt change a thing. I can honestly say for once in my life I am happy.
    • Like Like x 2
  13. pedrofcuk Member

    Well, I have an interesting Xenu story and I'm not sure if I've told this before but it relates to my 5 hours of introductory Book One auditing.

    I got into session very quickly and erased a secondary, then a minor upset and lo and behold I had nothing left to audit!

    I looked and looked for stuff but nothing came up. I zoomed through the pre-natal area and went into the weird stuff very fast for a raw meat woggy.

    I tried to go back to the earliest thing on my track and came up with some Master of the Universe (Supreme Rulah) type stuff. To me this was amazing but I was really just winging along. The Book One auditor was obviously out of his depth and he kept ending the session and going upstairs for instructions on how to handle my case. They became very interested in wanting to know the name of this Overlord but try as I might I couldn't think of it. The closest I got was Wotan (Odin) and that sat nicely with me.

    After about 4 session breaks for further instructions the auditor came back and we got into session again and he asked me outright with a funny look on his face, "Was his name Xenu?"

    I said no rightaway, I'd never heard of Xenu.

    The interesting part about this is that the two techncial people in the org that day were no higher than Clears although one was married to an OT3 completion, draw your own conclusions, I have drawn mine.

    Fucking cult eh?
  14. Mark Cabian Member

    I hope I'm not interrupting. I am not OTIII, but have spoken in person with more than a few over the years. For brevity, I will site two very different examples, but very representative of the cult survivors I have spoken with.

    Chuck Beatty - Paraphrasing: it was like this wild, space-age, wild west thing! It was very exciting.
    DeHypnotist (in w/Ron) - When I asked him about the Xenu tale, he replies: "What's true for you is true ... pause ..." (we both laugh out loud)

    From the perspective of someone who has been watching the cult for a very long time, I'd say that either the individual believed it, and saw how important it was in relation to the problem of BTs, or to some, it seemed too silly to take at face value. However, it was meant to be quite serious, and not an analogy or "new myth", but fact.
    • Like Like x 1
  15. slobeck Member

    Really? you're asking people on WWP to stop making "supressive comments" . you need to...and i hope im not being too harsh. GTFO
  16. CarterUSP Member

    I remember speaking to a cultist who was not yet clear while doing some Div6 stuff. She told me some stuff about earth being a prison planet and stuff about lots of undesirables in other parts of the galaxy being sent here. Don't remember any specific mention of volcanoes or BTs or anything.
    As fairly raw meat, my reaction was very much in the smile and nod and "Okaaaaay! That's nice for you". Later on, when going against instructions to not look on the internet, I read about Xenu and got the full story. Thankfully I wasn't far in so didn't believe it and had no fear of catching pneumonia. I slipped away shortly after. God bless the internet!
    • Like Like x 2
  17. anon8109 Member

    This is the user's only post. They also only have the one post on blogspot. I hope they're OK and didn't get sucked back in.
  18. pedrofcuk Member

    I know the user and I can assure you they are not sucked back in and very much "out" but keeping a low profile at the moment, he says he will speak out when he feels the time is right.

    Interestingly I know of another guy did OT6 paid in for OT7 and is now in hiding as he doesn't want to do it.
    • Like Like x 2
  19. PodPeople Member

    From my "experienced" as well as intricately researched experience (okay gotta also say "opinion), only corporate/business difference in upper (OT) levels and lower bridge levels is $$$$$$. Technically, I would say from lower to higher, It is a mirror into the deteriorating mental condition of one L Ron Hubbard.

    All Scientologists are forbidden from day one to talk about their experiences with others, at least since the early or mid 70's. Only positive "success stories" are acceptable. Cult Symptom #7.

    Anyone on OT Levels is guarded. Members are told this is for their protection. In actual fact (ok my opinion, meh) it is for protection of Cof$ and to keep people from blowing, or, you know, asking questions, like WTF?
    • Like Like x 2
  20. Elronious Member

    i have wondered this for a while. thanks for asking. i finaly found this post, will be reading w/ glee
  21. DeathHamster Member

  22. RolandRB Member

    Hubbard should have said DC-7s and not DC-8s. That's what did it for me. I could tell then that the whole philosophy was flawed. :)
    • Like Like x 1
  23. Waco anonman Member you not understands the nature of being anonymous? every EX should know that so long as they were the mask they cannot get fairgamed, and thus their old captors' Tom Cruise Missiles won't hit. in fact, they will miss in all manner of epic fail. so....incident II or GTFO
  24. But....dont we hate stupids like him???
  25. Anonymous Member

    After Sth Park's airing and the subsequent 'fall-out' from it, the 2006 Maiden Voyage event (held at the Advanced Org @ Glebe) in Australia was used to insulate lower grades, 'clears' and up to OT III with some 'data' about elrons 'Wall of Fire'. A video was played after the event at the AO is rather small rooms.

    David Miscaviage said
    After DM came Dan Sherman with a long-winded are some excerpts from the audio file recorded on the night.

    Dan Sherman said
    Sherman went on about the psychiatric dictatorship

    Sherman went on....

    It was pure insulation because of what Sth Park displayed (EP912)and the following reports of Xenu have done in regard to elrons 'warnings' about being introduced to the datum or OT III.
  26. Have you sent him to ESMB? They seem to be having pretty good success with Refund Tech over there...
  27. Waco anonman Member

  28. Instruction at this level is very tightly controlled. People within Scn are not educated in the classical sense. They are presented the materials, allwed to study them, checked on their comprehension of the writings themselves and then checked on their understanding of the concepts therein.

    This is engineered to keep the opinions and interpretations of the course room supervisor, off of the student's plate to prevent perversion of the understanding of said materials.

    It would go something like this.

    Person finishes clear. Goes through all the preparatory steps to even be able to LOOK at the OT materials. Life evaluation and security check confessionals and when they are given clearance to do that, they then go to another part of the building where they literally have to be walked in by a Sea Org member of appropriate rank and position. They are given their materials in the OT course room and study on their own. They may be assisted by means of clearing up words and terminology, then they pair up to practice the techniques they will use on themselves in their "solo auditing" in private.

    As has been mentioned before, specifics of things encountered during this auditing are not talked about. Content of the materials is not talked about and the methods of auditing this solo, are not talked about outside the "Advanced Organizations" that literally have lockdown drills where the entire building locks all of the doors, and the entire place is inspected to find evidence of an intruder trying to steal the confidential materials of the OT Levels themselves...
    • Like Like x 2
  29. This group is designed to pull together more and more, circle the wagons when an attack comes in. Members earn better standing within, by leading the charge on the defense of an attack. What finally pulled me out, was the simple availability of accounts, stories and video interviews with people who were on the upper levels of management and and auditing. I read it, evaluated it for myself and decided that I could no longer be a part of a group that supports an abusive leader, and enforces a way of thinking that leads to wholesale slaughter of unborn children. Simple as that.

    No explanation necessary on the psychological gimmicks and tricks that were used to keep me "drinking the kool-aid" so to speak. The simple truth is the most effective. :)

    Decent people will not continue to be members of a group that harms their fellow man when presented with clear, fact based argument.
    • Like Like x 1
  30. Quite the opposite on the food issue. Diets and all nutritional recommendations for people who are on staff, training or receiving auditing are heavily slanted TOWARD high protein, low refined sugar, high natural vitamin content. Regular sleep is also mandatory.
  31. Demented LRH Member

    I am not an OT. I had the same question about the Internet OT data, and now I know the answer. Before the Internet came to be the CoS were telling everyone that seeing the OT data could be lethal. Now they have changed the tune: They say that you can read the OT info without any ill effects, but if you get OT auditing outside the Church you’re screwed.
    In 1981 Hubbard wrote a screenplay, Revolt in the Stars. It is based on OT data, everything is there, including Xenu. The screenplay was so bad that not a single movie production company was interested in it.
    • Like Like x 1
  32. Demented LRH Member

    This thread is very popular among the active Scientologists. The best way to reach other Scientologists is to contact them via Facebook. Once you locate one of them, you locate all his/her Scientology friends. You could email this thread to them.

    I use the word “you” because, unfortunately, I do not have time to do this.

    The thread needs editing -- there is some material in it which is a white noise. The most important part of it are the stories told by former Scientologists who went OT. The active Scientologists want to know why those OTs turned against the Church, and hear their stories. As you may know, according to the Hubbard doctrine, an OT would never go against the “mother Church”.
    • Like Like x 2
  33. I have only read this last page here and am delighted by it. I used to read the OT Success Stories in Advance Magazine when I was a Scientologist and used to wish so badly that I was an OT.

    The posts in this thread whether from an OT or non-OT critic are great and in a bizarre way make me feel a little like I did when I read Advance Magazine. I see them as the REAL OT Success Stories or anti-success stories if you will.

    This thread is valuable and I certainly hope active Scientologists do read it. I'll be coming back to this thread and reading the rest from time to time and will no doubt be sending copies of some of these posts to my local org and other orgs via the mail just on the off chance some clam staff member will actually read it instead of the predictable ignore reaction. Any clams whose home address I can find will also get this too.
    • Like Like x 2
  34. Anonymous Member

    Several days ago, I read this entire thread. I think it is fascinating, even with the smog and trolls.

    Lorelei has a brilliant post on Page #2 - Post #61.
    • Like Like x 2
  35. Demented LRH Member

    I agree with you.
    I was curious about Dianetics, my curiosity brought me to the cult. But I do not think that curiosity is a weakness.
  36. Anonymous Member

    It's a mental retard weakness if you join and support Scientology because you are curious about it.
  37. Anonymous Member

    I disagree with you here. I know of a Writer/Journalist who joined $cientology purely for investigative journalism purposes. He went all the way to "clear" and left the cult.

    Later, many articles of his were published, very critical of LRH and the cult.
    • Like Like x 2
  38. Anonymous Member

    So 'debt' is a tool of the manipulating controller?


  39. Demented LRH Member

    Why did you join Scientology? Please, be honest about that.
  40. Demented LRH Member

    I got flowers from Hare Krishna fiollowers once, but I did not feel obligated to do anything for them. Instead I told them that they are involved in a dangerous cult, and carried the flowers to my apartment.

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